True Football Fans Know

[pac10aintbad]

I find it disturbing how many here on this forum belittle the PAC-10 Conference. You won't hear such rhetoric from Oregon coaches, they speak of opponents with respect. Why can't Big 10 fans do the same. Although I am sure there are some jerk Oregon fans out there that respond in similiar ways but they are not the majority here.

In my humble opinion the Big-10 is an outstanding football conference as is the PAC-10. In any given year one conference may fair better than the other but overall they are really on par with each other. Why else would the Rose Bowl be continued so long and still observed as "The Grand Daddy of them all"!?

To say the PAC-10 is one team and only one team conference is ludicrous. If I recall correctly in 2001 the conference had 3 Top 10 teams at the end of the season and none of them were USC. The Big Ten has had similiar rankings as well. Niether conference regularly places that many teams in the Top 10. But on occasion they do.

Is the Big 10 better than the PAC-10 this year? Maybe, maybe not, we'll see. Does that mean the PAC-10 is not a major conference? Absolutely not! I would suggest that a Big 10 team could play a PAC-10 schedule and afterwards they would tell you it is a tough and BALANCED conference.

That balance can create a perception of weakness when in fact that isn't the case. I suggest a similiar thing in the Big 10 but not quite as pronounced. Here is a good example, last season the Ducks defeated the Wolverines yet if my memory is correct (may have been two seasons ago I am getting old so the memory is starting to go) Ohio State beat the crap out of WSU. So really nothing is proved, maybe bragging rights for a season but really that is it. The Ducks were 5th or 6th in the conference and WSU was 2nd. So a lower PAC-10 team defeated an upper Big 10 team and an upper Big 10 team defeated an upper Pac 10 team, seems on par to me.

Now I am sure someone will quote last years bowl results, but that is only one season. I can find recent years where the Big 10 didn't fair as well and years they did. That is the nature of the game. I can also find years where the PAC-10 was totally dominate but I would never rank on the Big-10 because of the PAC-10's success. Anyway since this is a BIG 10 forum I am totally looking forward to getting blasted. Fire away!

[BengalszoneBilly]

Boy...did this guy go to alot of work to make a point or what!?!

[Kirkendall]

Nice sig.. A duck on a motorcycle and my name attached to it.. you can't buy stuff like that.

[pac10aintbad]

Hey Kirkendall hope you didn't take my picture statement as a personal attack. I just take issue with you saying that the PAC-10 is so weak and only a one team Conference. If folks want to make fun of Oregon's yellow uniforms let me join you. But I have to take issue with people talking this way about a good, quality conference. That was my point and I also want to make it clear that I believe the Big 10 is alos a good quality conference. In any given year one of the two might fair better than the other but overall I think they really are on par with each other. It would be nice if the PAC-10 could organize their schedule such that everyone plays everyone each year but that is in the future.

[kevnz]

But where do they stack up in comparison to others?

ACC, Big 10, SEC, Big 12 are all head and shoulders better than the PAC 10...

I mean they're on par with the Big East and a little better than some like the Conference USA or the MAC, but come on.

[Boobie Clark]

I use to have season tickets to Arizona State football. The Pac 10 sucks - at least as it's represented by the State of Arizona.

Now, I did see the Buckeyes play at U of AZ back in 2000. The place was packed with OSU fans. The score was 27-17 but it wasn't that close. OSU beat on them like UA was a practice squad...of little girls.

Bigger, stronger, faster, tougher - Big 10 football.

[Kirkendall]

Hey Kirkendall hope you didn't take my picture statement as a personal attack. I just take issue with you saying that the PAC-10 is so weak and only a one team Conference. If folks want to make fun of Oregon's yellow uniforms let me join you. But I have to take issue with people talking this way about a good, quality conference. That was my point and I also want to make it clear that I believe the Big 10 is alos a good quality conference. In any given year one of the two might fair better than the other but overall I think they really are on par with each other. It would be nice if the PAC-10 could organize their schedule such that everyone plays everyone each year but that is in the future.

Not a problem... I see your points -- which were really thought out. Welcome aboard Pac.

[LABengalsFan09]

Pac-10,

I've been screaming this too, but nobody listens....

After USC, the rest of the nation seems to be playing for second........

Can't wait for VA Tech, should be an exciting game!

[pac10aintbad]

I have to respond to Kevnz. You are kidding me right? Just a little better than the MAC? Please let's be realistic. How many National Championship teams has the MAC had? I believe that alone makes my point.

As for the Big 12, well we will get our shot at Oklahoma this year at their place and another shot at them at our place in '07 if memory serves me correctly. Seems to me the last time Oregon played a Big 12 team they beat the crud out of them in the Fiesta Bowl. The Big 12 has several good teams but in all honesty from top to bottom I would be so bold as to suggest the PAC-10 might have an edge. We will get to see this year when the Ducks take on Oklahoma and the OSU Beavers (that's Oregon State to you Buckeye fans) play at LSU. Although the Beavers lost a lot of talent, they will hopefully keep the score respectable.

So when the PAC-10 had 3 teams in the Top 7 in 2000 you are telling me the Conference is only slightly better? USC were co-national champs last season and I sure as heck guarantee that Oregon would have made a much better opponent for Miami in the 2001 BCS Championship a few years back than Nebraska did.

I'd even match the PAC-10 with the ACC. Yeah Wake Forest beat the Ducks in the Seattle Bowl (what a joke of a bowl game) two years ago but after Miami, VaTech and FSU I think the PAC-10's lower teams fair better than the ACC's lower teams. If you are talking the top of the conference then yeah I would give it to the ACC although not in 2000. No disrespect to NC State, UNC or GaTech!

After Georgia, Florida, Auburn and Tennessee what does the SEC have? Just because the more dominant teams in the PAC-10 don't have the history the SEC teams do doesn't mean our top four are anything to sneeze at. I'd match USC Washington, Oregon and WSU against anybody in the nation and in most cases it would be a contest. Yeah you can come up with a blowout here and there but remember this one Oregon State 41, Notre Dame 6? Oregon over Colorado, USC over Michigan. Those are bowl games and marquee Bowl games at that. It would be nice if some of these East Coast teams would be willing to sign some home and home contracts and then maybe we would have something more concrete to discuss but for some reason a lot of them won't do it.

I personally feel there is an East Coast bias in voting for the polls. Some could argue with that and they might have valid points but if I understand correctly there are more voting reporters for the polls on the East Coast as compared to the West Coast, plus a lot of West Coast teams play later games and a lot of football fans don't get to see the Western teams and hence don't realize the talent there. Hence the bias, maybe not intentional but it does exist.

How many of you realize the Oregon Ducks have the best PAC-10 record over the past several years? WSU isn't far behind. USC's resurgence is a recent phenomenom(sic). Heck I watched Oregon smack USC around 3 out 4 years but the one year we didn't beat them they took it to us.

My main point is the PAC-10 isn't the best football conference by any means but it isn't as low as some on this board believe. In the end I guess it is mostly subjective and I hope the teams from the conference can back me up on the field this season.

[EdwardG]

If I recall correctly in 2001 the conference had 3 Top 10 teams at the end of the season and none of them were USC.

It ain't 2001.

So when the PAC-10 had 3 teams in the Top 7 in 2000 you are telling me the Conference is only slightly better?

It ain't 2000.

How many of you realize the Oregon Ducks have the best PAC-10 record over the past several years? WSU isn't far behind. USC's resurgence is a recent phenomenom(sic). Heck I watched Oregon smack USC around 3 out 4 years but the one year we didn't beat them they took it to us.

I realize the Pac Ten has had good teams over the years. My beef is that last year, the Pac Ten wasn't very strong last year(I believe they only had two teams with ten wins, compared to four for the Big Ten). Oregon was decent - they did beat Michigan, but then they got hammered by WSU, ASU, and Washington (and don't even try to tell me that Washington and ASU were good teams last year). Moreover, USC didn't even play Oregon.

This year, the Pac Ten looks even weaker on paper, but hopefully a team like Oregon or Oregon St. surprises. USC is by all respects a great team in the ranks of Michigan, OSU, Oklahoma, Miami, FSU, etc. But because the Pac Ten looks so weak, USC will be able to breeze through their schedule. In other words, I am an OSU fan, and if the Buckeyes played USC's schedule, I'd buy some Orange Bowl tickets right now. I saw some discussion on a USC message board about their toughest opponent, and some were saying BYU.

Of course, I could be wrong, so tell me, who in the Pac Ten will reach 9 or 10 wins this season, and who will be USC's toughest opponent?

[pac10aintbad]

You bring up some valid points. And I realize that Ohio State is a cut above 90%+ of the NCAA D1 Schools, however, I wish you could play a season in the PAC-10 you might find the schedule not as easy as you think. To my chagrin our only Big-10 foe will be Indiana and although I would never overlook any opponent I think it is fair to say they are not an upper echelon team.

You are also correct about the Ducks getting ripped by a couple of schools, but I would respectfully point out that there was a QB controversy at the time and the coach made a decision to go with two QBs and the team clearly did not play to their talent level. Later in the season Kellen Clemens established himself as a starter and started showing the skill that many of our recent QBs had exhibited. Had we played WSU at home later in the year I am confident the result would be different.

You bring up the 10 win mark as a level of a good team. Although I tend to agree I don't feel it is an absolute. Also, despite the Big 10 being an outstanding conference I think they would be hard pressed to repeat last years performance, although I wouldn't write it off either.

Also, maybe your "what have you done lately" is where we are not agreeing(sic). I am looking at the past 10-15 seasons not just the last 1 or 2. Would I say the PAC-10 had a bad year last season in comparison to other seasons? Yes. I think it is a fair statement to say all conferences have off years.

Who do I think will challenge USC, well my LA PAC-10 commrade might get mad at me but USC isn't a shoe in for the title, heck Cal beat them last year (an ex-Duck assistant is head coach there!). Yeah they are the favorite but as I am sure all of us know it is a long season and much can happen. I would love to see the Ducks challenge but I think they would do well to place 2nd or 3rd but I also wouldn't be suprised to see Clemens turn a few heads this year.

In all bluntness look out for Cal, UW is always tough, the team that really has surprised me with their consistency is WSU. They can't seem to win the big bowl game yet but kept their wins up even after a coaching change. Is WSU the caliber of Ohio State? No. But then again not many teams are.

Finally, I would like to add that the courtesy shown on this forum is great. No one here has called me names, all have brought up points and kept it clean I appreciate that. I must sadly admit that some of my fellow Duck fans are not so polite on some of our forums/chat rooms. Makes me think it is too bad Akili Smith didn't reach his potential for the Bengals.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Finally, I would like to add that the courtesy shown on this forum is great. No one here has called me names, all have brought up points and kept it clean I appreciate that.

Well pac-man, you can thank yourself for that. You came in with a valid point of view, and a good attitude of your own. All in all a welcome participant here. I'm hoping you stick around! I find your signature pictures a study in making a point!

[Bobcat Bengal]

Hey, I never said anything about the Pac-10.....refer to my comments in the College Football team allegiance post

[Bobcat Bengal]

And uh.....

the Bucks beat the Huskies last year too....

[pac10aintbad]

Let me make one thing perfectly clear. Any team that beats the Washington Huskies is a friend of mine!

[chrishcovga]

Ok , so I can end this useless debate over who's conference is better etc. etc. - What school did the greatest Cincinnati Bengal player graduate from...

USC - Mr. Anthony Munoz.

-- What should really be important about these conferences is whether or not our beloved Bengals are drafting the best talent these conferences have to offer..

So as long as I'm seeing Cincinnati draft from the Big 10, SEC, Pac-10 , and the ACC preferably Florida St. and Georgia Tech. then I'm Happy !

Big 12 players as long as they're not defensive backs, then sure why not ..

[LABengalsFan09]

Nobody is a shoe-in for the title, but both of the co-champs are loaded better than everyone else this year, and LSU does not have a proven QB....

So the favorite would have to be The Trojans...

Don't give me any of that Oklahoma nonsense. The "Heisman" winner, was horrible in the 2 most important games of the season last year!!!

Leinart to Mike Williams "NCAA permitting" is the most lethal combo in NCAA history since, well, Carson Palmer to Mike Williams!!!!

**couldn't pass that one up**

The Pac-10 doesn't have the best games as a whole week in and week out, but I will not put up with the uneducated bashing....

[Barbarian]

I hope the Ducks have fun on probation!!!

Right now in the PAC-10, the only upper echelon team is the Trojan Condoms. They're lucky they have such a powder puff schedule like that PAC-10 schedule, so they'll do great in the Bulls**t Championship Series again next year!!!

And the Ohio State Buckeyes are better than 90% of the D-1A schools??? Uh, try at least 97% this last year--and try 100% the year before!!!

In conclusion, I seem to think that this helps out you PAC-10 fans:

PAC-10 = PAthetiC 9 + 1 Superb

[pac10aintbad]

Well Barbarian all I can say is I believe you are incorrect about the strength of the PAC-10. To my chagrin there are some PAC-10 fans who would say the same about the Big-10 and I would tell you they are both wrong. Both conferences are top caliber. Every conference has good years and bad years. I do wish the Buckeyes would sign a home and home with the Ducks like Michigan, Michigan State and Indiana have done (even Oklahoma has now signed a home and home with us) then maybe this could be settled on the field or atleast convince you that the PAC-10 is not as weak as you believe.

I am glad you believe in the conference you support but with all due respect I think your observations are tainted somewhat by your alligiance(sic- as are mine probably). Also the PAC-10 and Big Ten are rivals and sometimes rivals belittle their opponents, for example look at my Huskies comment. But, for as much as I despise the UW I have to admit they have a pretty good football program and sure kicked our fannies (God I hate Nueweisel and am glad he is gone!!!!!) I am wondering why the same isn't applied here in your position about the PAC-10. I have to ask is your opinion of the conference based somewhat on your love of the Big Ten and hate of the PAC-10?

As for the probation issue, I wish the coach would have fired the assistant who did the violations. But it won't affect/effect (never know which one to use) our bowl or tv statis. I must say it shows me we have truly hit the big time because some are buckling to the recruiting pressures. One of the negative things generally related to a decent NCAA D-1 football program. It is unfortunate these things happen, and I am hopeful Coach Bellotti will keep this program clean. If not then we deserve any puishment the NCAA might hand down as would any program that would violate rules as our program has.

In conclusion, and without trying to call names it seems to me you are trying to start fights with names like condoms etc. That is fine it is a free country but I will do my best not demean those that I disagree with (Huskies excluded ofcourse).

[Kirkendall]

Is there any regular season games with the Pac-10 vs. Big 10? I looked at the Bucks schedule and we don't have any Pac-10 opponents -- and I don't care about Michigan because they'll probably lose, again.

But man, with the conference debate going on here; I'll definitely be paying attention to any pac-10 vs. big 10 games this season.

Oh, by the way, I'm the least out-spoken person here. Why is my name still attached to your sig? It's been a week..

[WHO DEY AGAIN?]

The Pac 10 was down last year but it won't last long. I know one thing. The games are much more fun to watch than the "yawn" big 10! Give me the SEC,Pac 10 and ACC. Now that's exciting football. I loved the ass whooping the Ducks put on those sorry U of M pretenders.

[richmond_mat]

I don't think the pac ten was down last year at all.

In fact I'd say their strength is increasing faster than any other conference accept perhaps the ACC. The pac ten has done well in bowls recently (i think) and is finally getting coverage back east. The fact that Notre Dame has STANK for a long while also hurts the conference.

Segue

I believe the dome heads will join the Big East to fill the vacuum, eventually. The diversity movement will prevent the conference from losing its automatic bid to the bcs. Notre Dame needs easier access so its a match made in media heaven.

BTW I've always thought the Big east was the most under rated conference.

[Barbarian]

So, if winning bowls is the biggest predictor of who is the best conference, then it would be the Big 10 for the past 3 years.

[Kirkendall]

I believe the dome heads will join the Big East to fill the vacuum, eventually. The diversity movement will prevent the conference from losing its automatic bid to the bcs. Notre Dame needs easier access so its a match made in media heaven.

BTW I've always thought the Big east was the most under rated conference.

There has been talk, nothing official by any means, that ND could go to the Big 10 to fill it up and have a conference game. Of course, I wonder if that happens if they'd keep the Big 10 name.

I think they should add a team to the Big 10, and then combine the Big 10 into the Big 12 and filter out all of the bad teams. How cool would that conference be each week? I know it's insane, and I'm sure there's minor logistics such as other conferences, but the hell with them.

[richmond_mat]

There has been talk, nothing official by any means, that ND could go to the Big 10 to fill it up and have a conference game.  Of course, I wonder if that happens if they'd keep the Big 10 name. 

I think they should add a team to the Big 10, and then combine the Big 10 into the Big 12 and filter out all of the bad teams.  How cool would that conference be each week?  I know it's insane, and I'm sure there's minor logistics such as other conferences, but the hell with them.   

I'm familiar with the big ten courtship of ND. I don't think that'll happen because that would make an undefeated season too difficult; especially with how bad they've been lately.

On the other hand ND might be able to dominate the big east with only modest improvment (note that ND is a member in every sport except football). If BC had intentions of staying in the conference this would make even more sense.

BTW I don't like the modern era of super-conferences and 12 game schedules. I much prefer leagues where a round robin can be played. These conference championships are stupid and unfair to the team that may have already defeated the opponent earlier in the season. :player: