Baltimore questions

[jjakq27]

[cincyhokie]

I love that my hatred of the Bengals and all their fans is starting to bubble up after an offseason of dormancy. I can't wait until my team kicks your teams butt up and down the field.

I actually don't hate the Ravens that much. It's quite possibly because their fans seem to be the most level headed and reasonable. Steelers fans think they invented football and Browns fans are annoyingly and consistently delusional.

As far as any team kicking the other up and down the field. The Bengals are 9-5 against the Ravens since 2003. In those past 7 years if either team has swept the other, it's because the other was having an unusually down year. 2004, 2005, 2007, 2008. The Bengals got the Ravens 2x last year when they were fielding a good team. It's never happened before and the chances of either team sweeping the other this year are fairly limited, IMO, counting out significant injuries.

All that said, the Ravens suck. Just FYI.

[redsbengalsbucks]

I love that my hatred of the Bengals and all their fans is starting to bubble up after an offseason of dormancy. I can't wait until my team kicks your teams butt up and down the field.

To bad that for most Bengals fans the Ravens will always be rated behind the Stealers and the Browns in hatred of a division rival. For the most part the Ravens only mean something during the week before they play the Bengals.

[HairOnFire]

I love that my hatred of the Bengals and all their fans is starting to bubble up after an offseason of dormancy.

I hope this newly fired hatred doesn't mean you'll follow in the footsteps of the greatest Raven player of all time by stabbing someone to death.

I can't wait until my team kicks your teams butt up and down the field.

In reality you can wait. Past history proves it.

[Arizona]

Dear HairOnFire:

I'll cut you. I'll cut you real good.

[HairOnFire]

Dear HairOnFire:

I'll cut you. I'll cut you real good.

You'll try. Just like all of the others who came before you.

Ravens suck!

[jjakq27]

Dear HairOnFire:

I'll cut you. I'll cut you real good.

You know you leave yourself open for a Ray Lewis reference with a comment like that but I won't go there.

[HairOnFire]

Dear HairOnFire:

I'll cut you. I'll cut you real good.

You know you leave yourself open for a Ray Lewis reference with a comment like that but I won't go there.

Perhaps karma is taking care of my light work today as Oniel Cousins was just carted off the Ravens practice field. Possible concussion, possible conditioning problem, or maybe Cousins threw his neck out looking for the man he was supposed to block. I'm not sure who the Ravens replacement for the replacement will be, but my phone just started ringing.

Personally, I hope Cousins is fine because when healthy he sucks worse than most street FA's.

[Arizona]

My comment WAS based on a Ray Lewis reference.

[jjakq27]

My comment WAS based on a Ray Lewis reference.

But we're talking about St. Ray. How could you say such a thing?

And people want to call the Bengals the "new Raiders".

[HairOnFire]

My comment WAS based on a Ray Lewis reference.

In an effort to reduce future confusion I suggest from this point forward we all agree to refer to Ray Lewis as "Stabby"

Because it's shorter, more to the point*, and despite the ambiguity everyone knows instantly who you're talking about.

*Pun intended.

[Arizona]

It's been so long on the Ray "Stabby" jokes they are tired, and I have seen and heard enough of the man to know he is so not that character that the jokes don't bother me anymore.

I'm sure it's the same way with you guys and Chad. Everyone else thinks he's obnoxious, but you guys realize he's just having fun. (Well I realize that too, but I'm rather enlightened).

Listen to Ray Lewis talk. Does he sound like the kind of guy who would kill people? Or does he sound like the kind of guy who would be too slow to disassociate himself with the kind of guys who would kill people?

[HairOnFire]

It's been so long on the Ray "Stabby" jokes they are tired...

Tired maybe, but two people are still dead, right?

Listen to Ray Lewis talk. Does he sound like the kind of guy who would kill people?

Yeah, he sorta does. And lets not forget how Lewis refused to name the killers he shared a limo with despite being close enough to the crime that his clothes were completely covered in blood. And because he destroyed that blood evidence he was found guilty of obstruction of justice in a double murder, right? So how innocent could he really be?

I'm sure it's the same way with you guys and Chad. Everyone else thinks he's obnoxious, but you guys realize he's just having fun.

I can't stand Chad, but at the end of the day all he ever killed was my good mood. Your boy, and his posse, left two people dead in the street....and he did everything he could to cover up what happened. That's fact, not opinion.

Bottom Line: I'm just busting on you a little, but truth be told it enraged me to see how quickly Lewis was able to resume his role as Reverend Ray, the spiritual voice of NFL players. Then again, who has more street cred than a playa pulling away from a bloody crime scene in a stretch limo? It's practically a sterotype, right?

[Kazkal]

The latest on Kindle: his college coach says he suffers from narcolepsy...

http://profootballta...has-narcolepsy/

How funny would it be if he just fell asleep in the middle of a play?

What really sucks for him is, he got injured before he signed his contract. He doesn't have that money yet. I wonder if this incident will impact that at all?

Sorry can't really find a disease funny,There's been some worry one of my Nieces may have it and it's scary to watch her just pass out at the blink of an eye.

I guess I let my hatred for Baltimore get the best of me...My Bad. Kind of strange though, that none of this came up during the Combine, or the extensive background checks and physicals teams do before the Draft. I'd think something like that would get leaked.

Np Man it's just like Percy Harvin(Though different problem but still something that can happen at any time) and Doctors still have Problems detecting it I think Because my sister took my Niece to 4 Different Doctors and they all said nothing was wrong with her that shes just throwing a fit yet they never saw her standing up one second then falling down to ground in rim sleep the next.

[Kazkal]

1. Either history predicts the future or it doesn't. By that I mean if you want to hold onto the Bengals division record last year, and their overall success against Baltimore as proof of future success, then let me offer that historically the Bengals don't make any noise in the post season even if they make it and they are rarely successful two years in a row. If you want to say the latter doesn't mean anything for this year, then don't bring up the former success either. I'm not addressing anyone specifically, just making a general point.

As you pointed out things Change Difference is Era...Our Success is compared to the team from the 90's so that's why we get written off vs Our Recent Successagainst you guys and a Sweep last year.Gotta Admit Carsons 8(9?)-3 Record vs is the Ravens is nice but you guys are no longer a Defensive Team and the Ravens Offense Does scare me some but I wouldn't Trade Any of our Position Groups for your's besides Oline...

QB-I'll Take Carson because Flacco still hasn't had anything more then a typical Managing QB type year...

RB-Truthfully I Prefer our RB's well Rice is the best back in the division I like Cedric + Bscott 1/2 more then Rice/Willis...

FB- Okay you guys have the edge here

WR-I seen your fans drool over your WR's but even if you paid me I wouldn't take em over the Bengals

TE-I'd say it's tie both have young guys Heap has been a proven Threat but Reggie has played huge part against the Ravens.

Oline-Easily you guys if everyone is healthy

Defense-You guys have the Stars but I'd take our Defense as a whole any day of the week..It's Deeper from Starters to backups and It's more balanced...I love me some Ngata (I livei n Oregon watched him for 4 years) but our Defense isn't about 3 Names it's about 25...

Other than the secondary the Ravens have tremendous depth.

Boldin and Stallworth were additions to the WRs, not replacements. Last year's #2, Clayton, is now the #4 receiver. That's depth.

Stallworth is a Addition? Hahahahahahaha Maybe you guys can sign Matt Jones when we cut him.

We've got a very solid backup qb, arguably one of the best backups in the league. That's depth.

Well He may be one of the most Proven Backup QB he Still looks like he doesn't want to play in the NFL anymore...Not only that but there's a reason he's a backup now because he was terrible his last 3 years Starting and was never anything more then a """Average QB"""

Ray Rice, McGahee, and McClain. That's depth.

It is But we have same Depth Cedben=THunder Bscott=Lightning Leonard =Miracle maker

The Oline goes six deep with starter quality (including backup Chris Chester). That's depth.

Agreed you guys have a Beastly Oline

The two TEs drafted this year in addition to Heap create a nice group. That's depth.

We Drafted the Best TE in the draft this year,The Productive TE in Recent years last year and Have Reggie Kelly who has been a Bane to the Ravens so we got a pretty good group too

The D-line is crazy deep. I shouldn't even need to argue that point,

DT Agreed,DE whos been getting sacks for ya guys lately?

LB corps, as always has great depth. They aren't names that non fans will know, but suffice it to say that every time a linebacker leaves Baltimore for greener pastures their replacement is always waiting in the wings

True BUt Bengals are Pretty Deep at Linebacker themselves and Btw THanks for Fitzgerald I love the guy

Corners - Yuck!

our Nickle and Dime Corners Could Start on your team Hahaha....

Safeties - having to replace Reed obviously skews how you view this, but there are three very solid starters on the roster that have been on the team for a few years. None of them will replace Reeds playmaking, but they are not liabilites.

Reed Covered For your guy's terrible Corner play now you no longer have that Safety Blanket Good luck

Finally, let me clarify that when I refer to offensive or defensive rankings I'm only referring to points. I don't expect the Ravens to put up yardage like some other offenses in the league, but I expect them to score points with very high efficiency.

I'm Sure the Ravens offense will be good,But Will your Offense be Able to contend with top offenses? will your Defense be able slow down the worst ones?,Sure it's going to be a Bitch to run up the Middle with Ngata & Cody but I could see the Browns Lighting up your Secondary this year.

PS,Ravens never had back to back Playoff Seasons until last year

[jjakq27]

Well done Kaz. And it's usually the Ravens that want to remind us how they have owned us. So who is really living off the past.?

As for Ray Lewis, all I can say is that he is a very lucky man. Please don't make him out to be something above what he really is. He is a very angry man with a lot of issues. Whether he was directly involved or not he knows what happened that night. Two people are still dead.

Chad is a clown. Comparing his actions and Lewis' and saying they are equal is a joke.

[HairOnFire]

Chad is a clown. Comparing his actions and Lewis' and saying they are equal is a joke.

To me the comparison is possible only in one narrow way. That being, the way both players were allowed to return to their previous status without any immediate or lasting repercussions. No being made to stand in the corner for awhile. No period of silence observed. Just step back up and take your place as the face of the franchise again.

And now, Roethlisberger.

[jjakq27]

Chad is a clown. Comparing his actions and Lewis' and saying they are equal is a joke.

To me the comparison is possible only in one narrow way. That being, the way both players were allowed to return to their previous status without any immediate or lasting repercussions. No being made to stand in the corner for awhile. No period of silence observed. Just step back up and take your place as the face of the franchise again.

And now, Roethlisberger.

So true.

[Arizona]

I don't get the "very angry man with lots of issues" comment. He's pure violence on the field, but every interview or candid clip shows what appears to be a very gentle man off the field. Now, if you want to argue that his entire image is manipulated, I can't defend myself against that, although it's a little cynical.

Did he handle the murders properly? Absolutely not. But the motivations and choices we are reading into his actions can range anywhere from misguided loyalty to his childhood friends to Machiavellian manipulation of the police and public for over a decade. Obviously I lean towards the former, but I tend to imagine people are generally good and make note of the fact that he has gotten in no trouble in the decade since.

Roethlisburger is a prime example of the kind of trail of destruction a truly bad person leaves behind them. Once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. T.O., despite is protests, has laid down a similar track record, so we judge him accordingly. Where is Ray's pattern? LeGarrette Blount has a more solid track record of uncontrolled violence than does Ray Lewis.

Finally, you boy Chad thinks highly of the man, and Chad doesn't seem the type to associate with thugs and murderers.

Regardless, I don't imagine I'll change any opinions, so I'll leave it at that.

Regarding football, let me address a few points:

- The thing about the upgrades at WR is not that the Ravens suddenly have the best WR group in the NFL, the AFC or even the AFC North for that matter; the important thing as that they are a legitimate group that should be productive. Last year, concentrate on Mason and Heap and Ray Rice ends up catching half the teams passes. This year there is a third option, and last years third option is now working against corners further down the depth chart. Even when the Ravens signed Stallworth I didn't think he was somebody like Anquan Boldin, but he's a solid player. I'm not expecting him to go to the pro bowl but if he can force a safety to backpedal a little in the cover two and open up underneath routes for Boldin, Heap and Mason he's doing his job.

- There is no legitimate way to downplay Bulger as the backup. Who is the Bengals backup? I ask both b/c I don't know, and b/c I can't imagine it's anyone being worried about. If Carson goes down or gets banged up a little, who would you rather have: Bulger or whoever your backup is? Also, I'm going to assume you didn't watch Bulger play against the Redskins on Saturday. He's still got the quick release and accuracy and moved the team very well throwing to a bunch of guys who aren't going to be on the roster in two weeks. Don't take one Jaws throwaway comment about him losing his love for football to heart. He lost his love for football in St. Louis.

- Here's my point about bringing up the past, and I'll apologize for this as all those years of law school really screwed with my ability to have a sloppy argument: You can't argue things both ways. Define the parameters for me and I'll give you a counter point. But don't discount an argument I make and then come back with one of the same form. If you want to say that Carson is 9-3, or whatever, against the Ravens, that is fine. But realize that is 6 years worth of games. That argument allows me to bring up 6 years of history that favor the Ravens, such as over the last 6 years the Ravens have won far more playoff games than the Bengals so I don't expect post season success for the Bengals.

- regarding no back to back playoff seasons before last year, go look that up. That assertion is factually incorrect.

[cincyhokie]

- Here's my point about bringing up the past, and I'll apologize for this as all those years of law school really screwed with my ability to have a sloppy argument: You can't argue things both ways. Define the parameters for me and I'll give you a counter point. But don't discount an argument I make and then come back with one of the same form. If you want to say that Carson is 9-3, or whatever, against the Ravens, that is fine. But realize that is 6 years worth of games. That argument allows me to bring up 6 years of history that favor the Ravens, such as over the last 6 years the Ravens have won far more playoff games than the Bengals so I don't expect post season success for the Bengals.

- regarding no back to back playoff seasons before last year, go look that up. That assertion is factually incorrect.

The Bengals record against the Ravens is generally brought up in defense of the "same old Bengals" sentiment. There is a stigma that the Bengals have been the doormat on and off for the AFCN for the last several years. Not the case. In fact since 2003, the Ravens have finished last in the AFCN. The Bengals? Not since 2002.

The Bengals 9-5 record versus the Ravens is to remind fans, such as Ravens fans, that the Bengals are a legitimate team in the AFCN and against a team such as the Ravens and their awesome defense.

I really don't think that the 9-5 record says more than the Bengals can beat the Ravens. Not that it WILL happen. As far as the Bengals and the playoffs go, didn't the Saints win the Superbowl without having back to back playoff years? The Bengals last time was 1981-1982. Then again, go back as little as the 2005 season and there are only 5-6 players left from that team. It's an irrelavent stat. Can it happen? Sure. It's not a predictor, however.

See the difference?

[HairOnFire]

Did he handle the murders properly? Absolutely not. But the motivations and choices we are reading into his actions can range anywhere from misguided loyalty to his childhood friends to Machiavellian manipulation of the police and public for over a decade.

Why should I care what his motivations were beyond the obvious choice of not wanting to go to jail or have his career ruined? The trial testimony documenting his actions immediately after the murders points to Lewis directing all of the members of his posse to destroy evidence and conspire to tell a unified self-serving version of what happened. That's obstruction of justice, in a double murder no less.

Roethlisburger is a prime example of the kind of trail of destruction a truly bad person leaves behind them. Once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. T.O., despite is protests, has laid down a similar track record, so we judge him accordingly. Where is Ray's pattern?

After the murders Lewis said he would change his lifestyle, and I'm satisfied he did just that. But just because theres no defined behavior pattern to point to doesn't lessen my anger when seeing Lewis hailed and feted as an all-time great, the face of a franchise, and an eventual 1st ballot hall of famer. In fact, whenever his past transgressions were mentioned here your first response was to claim those types of conversations are tired and not worth mentioning. Then you counter by pointing to the silly and boorish behavior of Chad and Owens as if it were comparable. Bengal players getting their drink on will probably follow. Yet it is Ray Lewis and friends who left two people dead in the street. And Lewis was found guilty of attempting to cover up his involvement of the crime and refusing to name those who may have been more directly involved. So why isn't that enough to ruin someones career? Or rather, how can it be that Lewis's career and reputation emerged unscathed? Isn't that outcome possible only if the fans of Baltimore openly desire it?

Regardless, I don't imagine I'll change any opinions, so I'll leave it at that.

No you won't. Because whenever the opportunity presents itself you'll bust on the fan of an opposing team by making fun of a drunk driving arrest or by reminding them of how badass Ray Lewis is.

[HairOnFire]

You can't argue things both ways. Define the parameters for me and I'll give you a counter point. But don't discount an argument I make and then come back with one of the same form. If you want to say that Carson is 9-3, or whatever, against the Ravens, that is fine. But realize that is 6 years worth of games. That argument allows me to bring up 6 years of history that favor the Ravens, such as over the last 6 years the Ravens have won far more playoff games than the Bengals so I don't expect post season success for the Bengals.

But it doesn't seem to be a case of Bengal fans having things both ways. Rather, the fact that Palmer is 9-3 against the Ravens speaks directly to head-to-head competition. That the Bengals have had no success whatsoever in the playoffs speaks to the Bengals lack of success when playing against other teams.

In short, you're bragging about other teams being able to do what the Ravens can't manage to do themselves.

[jjakq27]

I don't get the "very angry man with lots of issues" comment. He's pure violence on the field, but every interview or candid clip shows what appears to be a very gentle man off the field. Now, if you want to argue that his entire image is manipulated, I can't defend myself against that, although it's a little cynical.

Did he handle the murders properly? Absolutely not. But the motivations and choices we are reading into his actions can range anywhere from misguided loyalty to his childhood friends to Machiavellian manipulation of the police and public for over a decade. Obviously I lean towards the former, but I tend to imagine people are generally good and make note of the fact that he has gotten in no trouble in the decade since.

I saw an interview many years ago where he stated that his inner rage was fueled by the resentment towards his father for the abandonment of his family when Lewis was a child. I'm really not sure what else to call that. And again two people are dead and Ray plea-bargained a reduced charge if I remember correctly and were there not a couple of out of court settlements with the families? Guilt by association or otherwise is hard to overcome. In all fairness however, I have seen subsequent demonstrations of genuine commitment to the community and to young folks.

As for his image, some of it is of his own making and much of it is by the media. To me it is part of the hypocrisy of the NFL. Same thing with Lawrence Taylor while I think a whole lot less of LT than I do Lewis.

Roethlisburger is a prime example of the kind of trail of destruction a truly bad person leaves behind them. Once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. T.O., despite is protests, has laid down a similar track record, so we judge him accordingly. Where is Ray's pattern? LeGarrette Blount has a more solid track record of uncontrolled violence than does Ray Lewis.

I seem to recall a 15 yard late hit on his dear friend Ocho that probably cost the Ravens the game last year. I am sure as a Ravens fan you might know of a few others that haven't exactly helped the cause. He may have learned his lesson off the field but I think he still is reckless on the field.

Finally, you boy Chad thinks highly of the man, and Chad doesn't seem the type to associate with thugs and murderers.

Regardless, I don't imagine I'll change any opinions, so I'll leave it at that.

Chad obviously thinks highly of Ray. Not sure what that says about either. Maybe Chad's afraid of him.

- There is no legitimate way to downplay Bulger as the backup. Who is the Bengals backup? I ask both b/c I don't know, and b/c I can't imagine it's anyone being worried about. If Carson goes down or gets banged up a little, who would you rather have: Bulger or whoever your backup is? Also, I'm going to assume you didn't watch Bulger play against the Redskins on Saturday. He's still got the quick release and accuracy and moved the team very well throwing to a bunch of guys who aren't going to be on the roster in two weeks. Don't take one Jaws throwaway comment about him losing his love for football to heart. He lost his love for football in St. Louis.

Can't argue that any one of our backups is better than Bulger. However you can only play one QB at a time. I will take Carson until that changes. My expectation is that they have upgraded the defense enough that should Carson go down, it won't be a repeat of the 2008 season.

- Here's my point about bringing up the past, and I'll apologize for this as all those years of law school really screwed with my ability to have a sloppy argument: You can't argue things both ways. Define the parameters for me and I'll give you a counter point. But don't discount an argument I make and then come back with one of the same form. If you want to say that Carson is 9-3, or whatever, against the Ravens, that is fine. But realize that is 6 years worth of games. That argument allows me to bring up 6 years of history that favor the Ravens, such as over the last 6 years the Ravens have won far more playoff games than the Bengals so I don't expect post season success for the Bengals.

People want to keep raising the bar. I think most people are referring to head-to-head matchups between the two. From the inception of the franchise until 2002, the Ravens owned the Bengals. Since then they have more than held their own against Baltimore.

The playoffs are an infrequent occurrence for the Bengals but that doesn't mean they will never or can never win a playoff game or advance to the AFC Title game or the Super Bowl. If you're debating the point that the Ravens have been to the Super Bowl once and the Bengals none in the same time period, the Ravens may have a few more appearances and success in the playoffs but won the prize once. I give them credit for being a competitive team every year but some might say they are living off past reputation.

- regarding no back to back playoff seasons before last year, go look that up. That assertion is factually incorrect.

They've made the playoffs the last two years, correct?

[Arizona]

2000 and 2001 were back to back playoff seasons in addition to 2008/2009.

Regarding motivation: The difference between first degree murder and negligent homicide is one of intent. In both cases someone is dead, but our reaction and the punishment is based purely on the intent of the individual committing the crime. Intention is very important in how we judge people.

Regarding severity of crime: I'm going to have to think about this some more. Is obstruction of justice as bad as committing the murder in the first place? Is it half as bad? a tenth? The sentiment I'm picking up, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that impeding the investigation is tantamount to conspiracy to commit the murder in the first place. If Ray had stuck a knife in someone, obviously he would be a murderer. If he planned with others to commit murderer, than in my eyes that's as bad as committing the murder itself. Hair, you seem to feel that the post crime obstruction is the same level of guilt, and I just can't see that. Would I be willing to forgive that for a player on another team? I can't think of an analogous situation, but if you have one give it to me and I'll mull it over. It's possible I'm being to forgiving. i don't think it's the case, but I'm open to more thought on it.

Also, please don't think I'm comparing being a team cancer or a jackass to being a hard core criminal. I was just using that as a reference for patterns of behavior. TO for all his faults has never gone near anything like Ray's mess. Ben on the other hand has gotten into that same strata of immorality.

Regarding Lewis on the field: I will readily admit the man is violence incarnate on the field. It's how he plays the game. Given a hundred chances I'm sure he'd put that same hit on Chad every time, although I'm not sure the 15 yarder would get called every time.

Regarding Carson over Flacco: It's close enough that I won't argue it. You like your guy, I like mine. The point however was about backups, not the starters.

Regarding the use of the past: Points taken. If the argument is the recent record of the Bengals against the Ravens head to head, I concede that the Bengals have won more. When it comes to an overall pattern of success, the Ravens have that edge. The former doesn't negate the latter and the latter doesn't negate the former. They are two different arguments.

[jjakq27]

Fair enough. I think the horse is dead.

Just speaking for myself, I'm a little bit touchy about the same old Bengals routine at this point. Other than the 2008 season the Bengals have been in the hunt and have won the division twice since Marvin has taken over. Taking it to the next level is the new challenge so people that dwell on the old days are missing out on a markedly better team and organization.

As for Ray Lewis, I have a hard time dealing with a gradient when it comes to people getting killed.

Good luck this season. I'm sure we'll see you around week 2.