Quan Cosby

[Sea Ray]

Great retort. Have you been typing your thread comments during recess? You have your opinion on Matt Jones and I have mine. I base mine on the recent success the Bengals have had of motivating and turning around otherwise wasted talent. I also base my opinion on his listed size, skill set, and recent numbers. Look up his 2008 numbers the year before he was suspended. They are better than Caldwell's last year and it was with a QB that isn't even in the league of Carson Palmer. Everybody sees talent in different ways but I think the guy has a shot and he is a totally different type of receiver than Cosby as I mentioned earlier.

Yes some folks are quick to write this guy off. As recently as two years ago he helped the Jags beat the Bengals as he pulled in 7 passes for 69 yards. The week before he caught 8 passes for 117 yards vs the Browns. He is a talented receiver when he's in shape both mentally and physically. I think this competition will be very interesting to watch and frankly I love the depth we've got. Sure if no one gets hurt then we'll have a lot of cutting to do but I know this team and someone will get dinged up and when they do we'll be glad we've got this depth. Two years ago it was the WRs that got decimated in summer camp. Last year it was the TE position. This year we can handle a couple injuries.

I have not seen any reports that Matt Jones got a signing bonus. He basically got the league minimum plus incentives. He was not in any position to warrant a signing bonus. It's like here: if you want a shot at an NFL job work your butt off and impress the hell out of us and we might start paying you in mid Sept. If you don't like those terms then go back to your day job.

[TJJackson]

Probowl like numbers but he's wasn't a probowler

who

freakin

cares

if he made the pro bowl

its the production. you want the production. He HAD the production.

Same as the pro bowlers production (ergo the point) but without the recognition.....including your own

trying save face

The only one here who needs to save face is the guy who claims the pro bowl PR will be unseated by a unproven rookie WR

Shipley had 4 Touchdowns in 2 years returning vs Quans 2 TD's in 4 years with that being said I am truly happy with either one of them returning aslong as they don't stick Keiwan back there again

Akili Smith had a lot of college production

David Klingler had a lot of college production

Kijana Carter had a lot of college production

Let's talk NFL, shall we? Since this is an NFL board and all.

Care to compare production in the NFL?

Let's start with Shipley's goose egg and move on from there........go ahead........mind you, punt returns are primarily measured by average yards per return, not TDs

[Kazkal]

To each their own opinion but doesn't change fact you got preachy on stuff we actually agreed on "shrug",Their Return avg was 5.4 avg & 5.2...so really not all that far off from each other Though Quan was quite more productive as a kickoff returner 23.7 avg vs a 19.something or another...As for College vs NFL production ya it's unknown how they'll work out but it's speculation which people do in the offseason no different from you automatically assuming there is no chance Quan gets unseated as a returner when none of us know until the season starts...I picked a poor choice of words when I said I wrote Quan off as a returner but the point I was trying to make was Even if Quan isn't our returner He's to valuable to let go because of what he brings in other areas of the game.

[TJJackson]

good try saving face

the average in question was more than double what you listed

I'll leave it at that

[derekshank]

I liked what Cosby gave the Bengals last year...but last year the Bengals weren't as deep at receiver as they are going into this year (theoretically).

All the more reason to keep him. The better the talent at the top of the depth chart, the less need there is for a guy at the bottom to play. So, why fill out the bottom of the depth chart with guys who can't play special teams? Matt Jones and Jerome Simpson would just be wasting space, getting little to no meaningful snaps, as well as being unable to contribute on special teams.

Cosby was a stud last year, both as a punt returner (he led the league in yards, and had the same average as Cribbs), as well as a hard working role player on kickoffs. Why cut him in a favor of a guy who won't see the field?

Who said Matt Jones wouldn't see the field? Ocho is due for an injury at this point and Bryant is coming off injury from last year. You need guys that can step and fill receiver roles. Cosby is strictly a slot receiver and can not fill either Ocho's or Bryant's roles on the outside. Shipley is pretty much in the same boat, taking on the Wes Welker role. You got to have some big back-up receivers who can step up if/when injuries happen.

Alright...

We're agreed that Chad and Bryant are 1 and 2. The Bengals also have Caldwell who caught 51 passes last year, and drafted a WR in the 3rd round to be a 3rd WR. That's 4. Then they drafted another WR one on top of that in the 6th. That should be all the information you need on their faith in Matt Jones.

Here are a couple quotes made about Matt Jones' workout:

“It was one of the worst workouts I have ever seen. I don’t care how fast his 40 time is or was, he’s a slow-twitch athlete.”

“He obviously has great size, but not even that is much of an advantage when you don’t move very fast. He’s not really the solution to what we need.”

Why anyone thinks he's going to make the team is beyond me... let alone actually be a contributer.

Even if all that is true, the guy (if 08 form) is a first down machine and his size helps him emmensely. He'll make this squad!

Care to make a wager?

Absolutely!,.. Stakes?.. ill let you choose your fate

Sure. I don't usually engage in betting, but I view this as free money...

How about winner chooses what jersey he wants from this site.

I'll have the retro Munoz jersey on page 2.

Thanks!

[derekshank]

The depth chart I hope to see is:

Chad, Bryant, Shipley, Caldwell, Cosby, Purify.

Purify won't make this team.

I know. I just think he should compared to the other stuff on the roster.

I certainly prefer him to Simpson, and although Briscoe probably makes the last spot, I feel like Purify deserves it. And Briscoe certainly doesn't qualify as enough of an upgrade over him to justify the selection. But that is for another thread.

[TJJackson]

Briscoe has shown me nothing so far

Purify has shown me a little

Edge to Purify at this point

But there's a lot of time and reps between now and the opener

[Kazkal]

Double?

Quan

Punt Return yards 372

Number of punts returns 68

with FC

372/68=5.4705

Without FC

372/33=11.2

Jordan

Punt return yards 375

Number of Punt returns 72

with FC

375/72=5.208

without FC

375/30=12.5

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/player/stats?playerId=175767

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/stats?playerId=162413

PS,So With Fair catches Quan has a small lead,without fair catches Shipley has a high avg? so how exactly does Quan have double?

[TJJackson]

Double?

Quan

Punt Return yards 372

Number of punts returns 68

372/68=5.4705

Jordan

Punt return yards 375

Number of Punt returns 72

375/72=5.208

so how is it double? Though if the stats on ESPN are correct I'll take 2 extra touchdowns over .27 of a yard.

Cosby = greater than zero NFL return yards

Shipley = zero NFL return yards

sign me up for the greater than zero

go look up the average yourself

do yourself the extra favor and look up Cribb's average as well

[kingwilly]

Double?

Quan

Punt Return yards 372

Number of punts returns 68

with FC

372/68=5.4705

Without FC

372/33=11.2

Jordan

Punt return yards 375

Number of Punt returns 72

with FC

375/72=5.208

without FC

375/30=12.5

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/player/stats?playerId=175767

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/stats?playerId=162413

PS,So With Fair catches Quan has a small lead,without fair catches Shipley has a high avg? so how exactly does Quan have double?

Please do not directly compare NFL stats with NCAA stats. You are better than that.

[Kazkal]

So Double of Nothing is 11.9 TJ? Great argument.

Please do not directly compare NFL stats with NCAA stats. You are better than that.

Well let's see it's special teams play vs you know the Busts TJ brought up like Akili who was product of the system... not only that but you have Quan & Jordan who played against the same level competition on the same team...How many notable returners have turned out busts? Sure Ginn was a crappy WR but he was still a superb returner...How about Hester? Glorious returner even though he is mediocre everything else...Plus it's the offseason NCAA stats are all we have to go off of when it comes to the rookies =P

[kingwilly]

So Double of Nothing is 11.9 TJ? Great argument.

Please do not directly compare NFL stats with NCAA stats. You are better than that.

Well let's see it's special teams play vs you know the Busts TJ brought up like Akili who was product of the system... not only that but you have Quan & Jordan who played against the same level competition on the same team...How many notable returners have turned out busts? Sure Ginn was a crappy WR but he was still a superb returner...How about Hester? Glorious returner even though he is mediocre everything else...Plus it's the offseason NCAA stats are all we have to go off of when it comes to the rookies =P

Tremain Mack was a good returner, even a Pro Bowler.... and he now makes $5 footlongs in Madiera.

Tab Perry's hip gave out, not his fault.

Curtis Keaton, Brandon Bennett, Cliff Russell, Skyler Green, Glenn Holt, Antonio Chatman.... Not exactly exemplary of fine NFL careers.

[Trevor]

I liked what Cosby gave the Bengals last year...but last year the Bengals weren't as deep at receiver as they are going into this year (theoretically).

All the more reason to keep him. The better the talent at the top of the depth chart, the less need there is for a guy at the bottom to play. So, why fill out the bottom of the depth chart with guys who can't play special teams? Matt Jones and Jerome Simpson would just be wasting space, getting little to no meaningful snaps, as well as being unable to contribute on special teams.

Cosby was a stud last year, both as a punt returner (he led the league in yards, and had the same average as Cribbs), as well as a hard working role player on kickoffs. Why cut him in a favor of a guy who won't see the field?

Who said Matt Jones wouldn't see the field? Ocho is due for an injury at this point and Bryant is coming off injury from last year. You need guys that can step and fill receiver roles. Cosby is strictly a slot receiver and can not fill either Ocho's or Bryant's roles on the outside. Shipley is pretty much in the same boat, taking on the Wes Welker role. You got to have some big back-up receivers who can step up if/when injuries happen.

Alright...

We're agreed that Chad and Bryant are 1 and 2. The Bengals also have Caldwell who caught 51 passes last year, and drafted a WR in the 3rd round to be a 3rd WR. That's 4. Then they drafted another WR one on top of that in the 6th. That should be all the information you need on their faith in Matt Jones.

Here are a couple quotes made about Matt Jones' workout:

“It was one of the worst workouts I have ever seen. I don’t care how fast his 40 time is or was, he’s a slow-twitch athlete.”

“He obviously has great size, but not even that is much of an advantage when you don’t move very fast. He’s not really the solution to what we need.”

Why anyone thinks he's going to make the team is beyond me... let alone actually be a contributer.

Even if all that is true, the guy (if 08 form) is a first down machine and his size helps him emmensely. He'll make this squad!

Care to make a wager?

Absolutely!,.. Stakes?.. ill let you choose your fate

Sure. I don't usually engage in betting, but I view this as free money...

How about winner chooses what jersey he wants from this site.

I'll have the retro Munoz jersey on page 2.

Thanks!

Alright sir, you have a bet(handshake),.. i'll take the cedric benson jersey...

[TJJackson]

The "double" had to do with 11+ versus a figure of 5+. I was unaware that the 5+ factored in fair catches.

That said, the main point here is that

1) Quan performed at the pro-bowl level as a PR, and solidly overall

and yet

2) Some of you think Quan either can (bad idea) or should (worse idea) be replaced as the Bengals PR by an unproven rookie (worse still)

Those points stand despite any rhetoric in-between.

That said.........sure, give any rookie who is willing some reps at PR over the course of the offseason. I'm all about depth at any spot. 1 PR is good, 2 PRs is better.

But it is unlikely in the extreme, barring injury, anyone will unseat Cosby as this team's PR. I say this not to denigrate any other player, but rather because Cosby's 2009 performance (un-acknowleged by many of you) as a PR was so very strong.

and so

I see Cosby (barring injury, as with anyone) as a absolute lock for one of the team's 5-6 WR spots

That leaves 2 or 3 spots for all other WRs not named OchoNoShow, Bryant, or Cosby, and of the remainder I'd say Caldwell (due to youth and performance *overall* last year - yeah, everyone sucked at the end) and Shipley (due soley to the spot he was drafted at) are near-locks. If we then assume those two make the roster, you have a small crowd fighting over zero to one more spots. Briscoe at least is eligible for the PS, and so thats where I figure he ends up regardless. Not sure if Purify has any PS eligibility left.

ps - Pimp: my week is over. Welcome back, Mr Myles.

[redsbengalsbucks]

All this arguing over the depth of WR, is a good thing.

I dont care what the WR corp ends up looking like, because it should look better than last years and that is all that matters.

My guess would be

Chad, Antonio, Shipley, Caldwell, Quan and Jones. With Shipley, Quan and Caldwell all doing their part on ST's.

[Kazkal]

I see Cosby (barring injury, as with anyone) as a absolute lock for one of the team's 5-6 WR spots

Well we agree on this so can I get a high five?

[Kazkal]

Quan or Briscoe are doomed...Carson has a Man crush on Jones...

But it might surprise you what Palmer’s initial takes are after throwing to the veterans every Tuesday and Thursday. His go-to-guys were always T.J. Houshmandzadeh (in the clutch) and the late Chris Henry (down the field) and he says that Antonio Bryant and Matt Jones can replicate that duo.

“We wanted to replace them, but we’ve never had replacements like these two guys,” Palmer said. “These guys are the most like those two guys. They’re not clones, but they do different things. They have different abilities and some similarities. But they’re two guys that could easily replace them.”

Palmer is clearly intrigued with Jones, the former No. 1 pick of the Jaguars that underachieved himself out of the league last year but has showed up here seemingly resolved to save his career.

“He’s 6-6. A big, fast target and a hungry target, too,” Palmer said. “He’s been out of the league and he just wants to make the team and help. He can run, he can catch. He’s just a mismatch. It doesn’t matter who is out there on him, it’s a mismatch.”

It almost sounds like he’s talking about Henry.

“He could be. You don’t know,” Palmer said.

[ArmyBengal]

I certainly think the WR corps is going to be a fun position battle to watch through training camp and I will admit to having softened my stance on Matt Jones a little bit. Not simply because of what Carson says, but because you can look at the roster of WR's and just get the feel they don't have much depth that can "possibly" bring what Chad and Bryant bring to the WR corps. The next question is, if they only carry 6 WR's who is the 6th WR that doesn't get activated for gameday ??

We have 11 WR's currently on the roster, including the 2 unsigned draft picks. While things are still very early, this is how I could see things shaking out.

Chad- Lock

Bryant- Lock

Shipley- Lock (they won't have him snatched up off the practice squad, NO CHANCE)

Cosby- Return skills are still tops to this point and is depth in the slot

Caldwell- Can he also work on the outside ?? Depth in the middle ??

Jones- Provides the type of depth needed in case Chad or Bryant go down "IF" he shows he still has the ability

Briscoe- Briscoe will be the person to fill the role if Jones can't. Practice squad if Jones is good.

Purify- I think it depends on the Jones / Briscoe situation, but think he would make it back to the practice squad.

Brown- If Jones doesn't show the ability and gets cut, Brown makes the practice squad. If Jones is good, Brown = CUT.

Simpson- CUT

Davis- CUT

If I were going to take a guess at this moment in time, which is a stab in the dark and just a gut feeling:

Chad, Bryant, Shipley, Cosby, Jones, Caldwell (not active)

[walzav29]

I certainly think the WR corps is going to be a fun position battle to watch through training camp and I will admit to having softened my stance on Matt Jones a little bit. Not simply because of what Carson says, but because you can look at the roster of WR's and just get the feel they don't have much depth that can "possibly" bring what Chad and Bryant bring to the WR corps. The next question is, if they only carry 6 WR's who is the 6th WR that doesn't get activated for gameday ??

We have 11 WR's currently on the roster, including the 2 unsigned draft picks. While things are still very early, this is how I could see things shaking out.

Chad- Lock

Bryant- Lock

Shipley- Lock (they won't have him snatched up off the practice squad, NO CHANCE)

Cosby- Return skills are still tops to this point and is depth in the slot

Caldwell- Can he also work on the outside ?? Depth in the middle ??

Jones- Provides the type of depth needed in case Chad or Bryant go down "IF" he shows he still has the ability

Briscoe- Briscoe will be the person to fill the role if Jones can't. Practice squad if Jones is good.

Purify- I think it depends on the Jones / Briscoe situation, but think he would make it back to the practice squad.

Brown- If Jones doesn't show the ability and gets cut, Brown makes the practice squad. If Jones is good, Brown = CUT.

Simpson- CUT

Davis- CUT

If I were going to take a guess at this moment in time, which is a stab in the dark and just a gut feeling:

Chad, Bryant, Shipley, Cosby, Jones, Caldwell (not active)

I agree with this 100%

[bengalhorn]

cutting cosby is not an option

[alleycat]

I will say this: watching that OTA video with Leonard split out at H-back and seeing Coffman wide open with the deep out made me salivate.

Our middle/underneath options would now include: Leonard, Gresham, Coffman, Shipley, Caldwell, and Cosby (who I think will blossom further from the flashes of dependability he showed at the end of the season.

If that doesn't free up the deep ball for Chad, AB, or M. Jones (who I'm quietly very hopeful about), then I don't know what would...

[TJJackson]

Our middle/underneath options would now include: Leonard, Gresham, Coffman, Shipley, Caldwell, and Cosby

What about Bernard?

[kingwilly]

Our middle/underneath options would now include: Leonard, Gresham, Coffman, Shipley, Caldwell, and Cosby

What about Bernard?

What about Matt Jones? Middle, underneath....

[alleycat]

Our middle/underneath options would now include: Leonard, Gresham, Coffman, Shipley, Caldwell, and Cosby

What about Bernard?

Yep, throw him out of the backfield to the flat and defenses will be pulled every which way.

BTW, I just checked up on Chase's weight. When we drafted him he was listed at 6-6, 244. He's now listed at 6-6 257. And that's from a while back, I think. So I'm hoping he adds some blocking prowess as well...

[HairOnFire]

Our middle/underneath options would now include: Leonard, Gresham, Coffman, Shipley, Caldwell, and Cosby

What about Bernard?

What about Matt Jones? Middle, underneath....

What about Vakapuna?

The Bengals may miss Jeremi Johnson's blocking at times, but years ago he ate himself out of any receiving or running role he once had, and the FB position morphed into yet another skill position that didn't need to be defended. Switching to Vakapuna could change that.