Bengals Pick at #21 Poll

[PhunkE1]

Earl Thomas is more of a complete player at this stage in the game, IMHO.

That would be amazing if it were true. I mean, if Earl Thomas can be more of a complete player after playing only 2 seasons of college football, than a guy like Mays who was a four-year starter and 3-Time All-American, that says something.

IMO Taylor Mays will be a Pro-Bowler, and I think he will do it sooner than Thomas (If he does at all).

I just don't think a guy can come into the NFL after only 2 years of college and be effective at the Safety position. Look for him to get burned when he gambles (which he tends to do) and get caught out of position at times. I'm not saying the guy won't be good, it will just take some time.

"At this stage" Thomas has exactly 2 years of college experience, whereas Mays is a 4 year starter and 3-Time All-American....Did I mention that before?

They'll no doubt end up playing different positions, and who knows Thomas might even play CB. Like Hair said why is everybody comparing Thomas and Mays? (I'm paraphrasing)

Also, I like Mays' bloodline. His Dad (Stafford) was a D-Lineman for both the Cards and the Vikes.

I stand by what I posted. We're projecting to the next level. Regardless of how many years/games either has played, Earl Thomas is a more complete player. Mays is a liability in coverage. Thomas has better quickness, change of direction, natural instincts and allot better coverage skills than Mays. It's the difference in an in the box SS and a true FS. I just think Thomas is better in run support than Mays is in coverage. I know allot of you have wanted Mays for a couple of years now, but I just think Thomas is the better player with more upside taboot.

[membengal]

I've been assuming Thomas would be off the board. If he's there at 21, I sure won't be sad if they take him over Mays.

[kingwilly]

I think the key to understanding Mays and Thomas is that they will be used for different purposes and applied in a way that maximizes the strengths of each.

It depends on what the Bengals want.

I think Thomas is more versatile, in his coverage skills and instincts.

I think Mays has more speed and could be used to neutralize RB's catching passes out of the backfield and TE's in zones.

As this team has elite CB's, and really only one Safety who can cover (Crocker), it comes down to which guy will do more to improve the Defense.

Roy W is highly susceptible to injury at this point and Ndukwe does not have the range or discipline to be the full time SS.

Given this, I see Mays as the player who fits the needs of the scheme and offers more of what the team is lacking. A very fast SS who can come up and make plays in the bos, while playing center field to reduce the amount of times TE's just gut us on 3rd down (Owen Daniels, Dustin Keller, etc)

[ArmyBengal]

Here's another one. Roy Williams is on a one year deal and Crocker isn't. Where's the biggest need ?? Hmmmmm....

[PhunkE1]

Here's another one. Roy Williams is on a one year deal and Crocker isn't. Where's the biggest need ?? Hmmmmm....

My whole arguement isn't about need it's the BPA. I just think Thomas is the better player. It's sounds like I'm in the minority on this board.

[derekshank]

Here's another one. Roy Williams is on a one year deal and Crocker isn't. Where's the biggest need ?? Hmmmmm....

My whole arguement isn't about need it's the BPA. I just think Thomas is the better player. It's sounds like I'm in the minority on this board.

Maybe. But it depends on how he will be used.

Mays is a far superior athlete... but he doesn't fit in a lot of systems. That style of SS is rare these days. If the Bengals determine he fits their scheme, I think he's the pick over a FS/CB tweener.

Not to say that Thomas will be more or less successful in the NFL... just trying to determine who fits best to make the most immediate impact and best fit with the Bengals.

I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other... just saying I'll be happy either way.

[kingwilly]

Here's another one. Roy Williams is on a one year deal and Crocker isn't. Where's the biggest need ?? Hmmmmm....

My whole arguement isn't about need it's the BPA. I just think Thomas is the better player. It's sounds like I'm in the minority on this board.

I came late and thought we were discussing the comparison between Mays and Thomas.

Regarding BPA, if only limited to Mays and Thomas, I think to determine "best" you've got to consider several things.

Scheme - going to and coming from

Physical tools - tape and measurables

Experience - body of work

Versatility - usefulness

Upside - highest ceiling

It is darn close, as both prevail in some criteria. Weighting the criteria, I think Mays gives more, as the ultimate goal is winning.

Does not mean I am correct, or that the Bengals will pick Mays, obviously. Also, I would not be uspet in the least if they took Thomas, it is a good problem to have in deciding which excellent player should be taken.

[Walrus]

Here's another one. Roy Williams is on a one year deal and Crocker isn't. Where's the biggest need ?? Hmmmmm....

My whole arguement isn't about need it's the BPA. I just think Thomas is the better player. It's sounds like I'm in the minority on this board.

I came late and thought we were discussing the comparison between Mays and Thomas.

Regarding BPA, if only limited to Mays and Thomas, I think to determine "best" you've got to consider several things.

Scheme - going to and coming from

Physical tools - tape and measurables

Experience - body of work

Versatility - usefulness

Upside - highest ceiling

It is darn close, as both prevail in some criteria. Weighting the criteria, I think Mays gives more, as the ultimate goal is winning.

Does not mean I am correct, or that the Bengals will pick Mays, obviously. Also, I would not be uspet in the least if they took Thomas, it is a good problem to have in deciding which excellent player should be taken.

Mays vs Thomas, 2010 = Smith vs Monroe, 2009

[ArmyBengal]

Here's another one. Roy Williams is on a one year deal and Crocker isn't. Where's the biggest need ?? Hmmmmm....

My whole arguement isn't about need it's the BPA. I just think Thomas is the better player. It's sounds like I'm in the minority on this board.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I would be MORE than happy with Earl Thomas in stripes. I would be very satisfied with that pick. However, Crocker is in the 2nd year of a 4 year deal and Roy Williams is on another one year deal and has had issues staying healthy. It's that and the FACT that Zimmer thinks that Roy Williams is PERFECT for the defense he runs and that EVERYONE says Taylor Mays is a Roy Williams clone. It just screams logical.

[PhunkE1]

Here's another one. Roy Williams is on a one year deal and Crocker isn't. Where's the biggest need ?? Hmmmmm....

My whole arguement isn't about need it's the BPA. I just think Thomas is the better player. It's sounds like I'm in the minority on this board.

Maybe. But it depends on how he will be used.

Mays is a far superior athlete... but he doesn't fit in a lot of systems. That style of SS is rare these days. If the Bengals determine he fits their scheme, I think he's the pick over a FS/CB tweener.

Not to say that Thomas will be more or less successful in the NFL... just trying to determine who fits best to make the most immediate impact and best fit with the Bengals.

I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other... just saying I'll be happy either way.

One last comment and then I'll get off this debate. I would argue that Thomas is the superior athlete. Mays has better straight line speed, but I would argue that his hip fluidity, or lack thereof, makes Thomas the better athlete.

All good pts, and I would be happy with either pick.

[Kazkal]

Here's another one. Roy Williams is on a one year deal and Crocker isn't. Where's the biggest need ?? Hmmmmm....

Never mind you had already answered my question lol

Mays vs Thomas, 2010 = Smith vs Monroe, 2009

I got that one right "Crosses fingers I get this one too"

[ArmyBengal]

I would be happy with either pick.

Agreed... Isn't it nice to have that problem ??

[ArmyBengal]

Here's another one. Roy Williams is on a one year deal and Crocker isn't. Where's the biggest need ?? Hmmmmm....

Never mind you had already answered my question lol

I figured someone would ask, so I went to look it up. Glad I could help.

[HairOnFire]

I came late and thought we were discussing the comparison between Mays and Thomas.

And I still say there isn't a valid comparison to be made despite the fact that nearly everyone attempts one.

Mays vs Thomas, 2010 = Smith vs Monroe, 2009

I'm tweaking it....simply to make a point.

Earl Thomas 2010 < Louis Delmas 2009 (Not intended as a ding as I'm a huge Delmas fan.)

Taylor Mays 2010 = ??? (Kiper claims there hasn't been a safety prospect with Mays physical gifts in more than 30 years, if ever.)

[PhunkE1]

I came late and thought we were discussing the comparison between Mays and Thomas.

And I still say there isn't a valid comparison to be made despite the fact that nearly everyone attempts one.

Mays vs Thomas, 2010 = Smith vs Monroe, 2009

I'm tweaking it....simply to make a point.

Earl Thomas 2010 < Louis Delmas 2009 (Not intended as a ding as I'm a huge Delmas fan.)

Taylor Mays 2010 = ??? (Kiper claims there hasn't been a safety prospect with Mays physical gifts in more than 30 years, if ever.)

But maybe there has been a WeakSide LB with his physical gifts. Do you see what I did there? I just couldn't resist.

[Kazkal]

Here's another one. Roy Williams is on a one year deal and Crocker isn't. Where's the biggest need ?? Hmmmmm....

Never mind you had already answered my question lol

I figured someone would ask, so I went to look it up. Glad I could help.

ya I thought it was a 3 year deal, which cool cause we have Crocker for 3 more years and can go snag Mays ..

Though I do wonder if we take Thomas what are peoples thoughts about Crocker playing SS next year?

[Kazkal]

1. Taylor Mays (Safety, USC)

2. Dez Bryant (WR, Oklahoma St.)

3.)Earl Thomas WR Texas

4.Sergio Kindle(DE/OLB)

5.Mike Iupati (Idaho,OG)

Can I update mine?

[HairOnFire]

But maybe there has been a WeakSide LB with his physical gifts.

Name one.

FWIW, Thomas Davis ran a 4.6 plus at his combine....making him one of the slowest players in that years secondary class. Mays not only ran the fastest of his class at the combine but is rumored to have run several electronically timed sub 4.3's while at USC.

[PhunkE1]

But maybe there has been a WeakSide LB with his physical gifts.

Name one.

FWIW, Thomas Davis ran a 4.6 plus at his combine....making him one of the slowest players in that years secondary class. Mays not only ran the fastest of his class at the combine but is rumored to have run several electronically timed sub 4.3's while at USC.

I was just making a joke. Allot of scouts think he's destined to be a WSLB because of his deficiencies in coverage. I think Derrick Brooks would be a good comparison. I guess I couldn't be too upset if we got the next Derrick Brooks. Also, I think 40 times are one of the most overrated things to look at when evaluating talent. The knock on Mays is that he doesn't have good change of direction skills. He apparently looked awful in position drills at the combine, specifically back pedling.

[ArmyBengal]

Some players train for the skills drills and some simply play the game. I don't put much stock in the fact that some players spend a good portion of their time training for the combine. Give me the guy that is a beast on the field over the guy that earns his payday at the combine.

[Kazkal]

Some players train for the skills drills and some simply play the game. I don't put much stock in the fact that some players spend a good portion of their time training for the combine. Give me the guy that is a beast on the field over the guy that earns his payday at the combine.

True that,USC Players don't even train for the combine and some of the positions skills are considered a load of hoo haw.

Have 4 years to judge him as a player 3 of those made him considered a top 5 pick yes he had a down senior year and hell I'm thankful for that because now we have a crack at him.

[HairOnFire]

I was just making a joke.

I get that. But jokes arise from something and it was that something that I addressed.

Allot of scouts think he's destined to be a WSLB because of his deficiencies in coverage.

I really don't think they are. Granted, it's an option that's being discussed because Mays simply doesn't fit very many defensive schemes without a position change. However, a smaller pool of interested teams is only likely to impact Mays draft position, not the role he'll play after being selected.

[ArmyBengal]

UPDATE TO BENGALS PICK OPTIONS:

After an overwhelming amount of PM's (which I really do appreciate) and considering the fact each pick has 6 hours in order to make their selection, there will be a slight change to how the Bengals will make their selection.

When the Bengals go on the clock, the 6 hours will start. Members will be able to click on Mock Draft Thread to determine who is still available for the Bengals at #21 and make their selection at that time. For anyone who doesn't get the chance to log in during that time, I will go back and see who you voted for earlier and add your vote accordingly.

Please make sure you guys are checking into the site periodically, even if you don't have a team in the mock draft, to cast your vote !!!

Thanks for the input guys and have fun !!!

[BengalPimp]

[Sea Ray]

1. Taylor Mays (Safety, USC)

2. Dez Bryant (WR, Oklahoma St.)

3.)Earl Thomas WR Texas

4. Mike Iupati (Guard, Idaho)

5. Brandon Graham (DE, Michigan)

When did Thomas switch to WR???