$16M Season - Was it worth it?

[kingwilly]

As we talk about ways this team can get better, it struck me while reading here that Carson is the "highest" paid player in the league.

Did this team get that value from him this year?

As the article discusses, the Colts view when assessing players includes how replaceable a player is.

Given the Run-First offense, and seemingly lesser emphasis on the QB to make plays, could this team "replace" Carson and invest monies into other players...?

[SupaBran]

Abso-fricken-lutely we could replace Carson(Vick) and no he definitely does not deserve to be the highest paid player in the league.

I like Carson but we are a run first offense that plays great D. There's no reason to pay someone $100 million to do what a rookie QB could do.(Sanchez this year or Flacco last year)

For example, Tomlinson will get released this off-season b/c he won't take a pay cut but the Chargers aren't going to pay someone who isn't doing their job.

[kevnz]

He probably wasn't worth the investment when you consider that the o-line can't pass block and his wideouts couldn't get separation. But that's the teams fault, it would seem that they spent the money poorly when it comes to what they are trying to build. But really, if you have a starting qb you keep that starting qb....You don't let him leave, and starting qb's cost a lot. and sorry, those rookie qb's had an oline that could pass block OUR OFFENSIVE LINE CANNOT PASS BLOCK!!!! A rookie would have been killed back there. So yeah, I think it was money well spent. How many games did Number 9 win for us this year???

[Kazkal]

As we talk about ways this team can get better, it struck me while reading here that Carson is the "highest" paid player in the league.

Did this team get that value from him this year?

As the article discusses, the Colts view when assessing players includes how replaceable a player is.

Given the Run-First offense, and seemingly lesser emphasis on the QB to make plays, could this team "replace" Carson and invest monies into other players...?

Do you think we would have done better with Michael Vick? do you think Osullivan would have been able have those 4th qrt comeback drives? 20+ tds 10 ints is pretty standard season for QB yes he didn't play like highest paid player should...But then again Chris Johnson is making next to nothing so funny how that works...Casrson is worth the money because it keeps him on the roster.

[cincyhokie]

This is exactly why bringing back Bratkowski is a baaaaaad move. Carson needs someone to work his strengths in more with the run game. Brat's all or nothing schemes aren't what we need.

Creativity is what we need. Damnit I was in a good mood until I read this thread.

Damn.

[walzav29]

Yes. He was worth it. It's the market. You can't just single out CP, when it comes to the entire team. Was it his fault in 08 that he had no o-line, and no rb and he got hurt? How about not supplying a defense in 07? You remember Ndukwe starting at LB on Monday Night vs the Pats? Palmer has won 2 Div titles in the last 5 seasons. They have made the playoffs. Thats not a big deal for other franchises but when you consider they didn't win 9 games in the previous 14 seasons. Throw the guy a bone. The Bengals don't surround him with all of the tools necessary. I can't believe you forgot the

Klingler

O'Donnell

Smith

Blake

Mitchell

Kitna

Fitzpatrick

Schroeder

Hollas

Wilhelm

Frerrote

Paul Justin

Era's. You guy's are crazy.

look at these stats from our "glory days" http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200010220cin.htm Check out the passing game.

[ArmyBengal]

Was Eli Manning worth the money for the Giants this year ?? I mean he didn't even take them to the playoffs.

I think it's a silly debate (if that's what this is). We have a QB that simply needs more weapons and better protection.

I can't envision going through the problem of having the QB spot being such a question mark and when it comes down to it, Carson isn't my issue.

They do need to draft a QB later to develop though, because I'm done with Carson's little bro. I see no upside for him...

[cincyhokie]

Was Eli Manning worth the money for the Giants this year ?? I mean he didn't even take them to the playoffs.

I think it's a silly debate (if that's what this is). We have a QB that simply needs more weapons and better protection.

I can't envision going through the problem of having the QB spot being such a question mark and when it comes down to it, Carson isn't my issue.

They do need to draft a QB later to develop though, because I'm done with Carson's little bro. I see no upside for him...

Really? Dave Lapham stated that at the end of camp Jordan was one of the most, if not the most, improved players on the team. I think he's got upside. He had a solid camp and preseason.

[bwillycuse]

IF and I state IF this team is run first. The money emphasis should be oline, TE, and running back.

Ive said it before - We have the highest paid QB. IF this team is really a run offense trying to stall the clock and then allow the defense to take over then we DO NOT need a 16 million dollar QB.

I dont believe we are really trying do that because that would just be dumb with the highest paid QB in the league.

Its like having Adrien Peterson and then letting Favre throw 40 times a game.errrr...bad reference.

Its dumb if thats their direction. Its a waste of Palmers skills and a waste of money. He is a good leader but that aint worth 16 million Lets get him a wr and a TE and see what he can do.

[Ickey44]

Really? Dave Lapham stated that at the end of camp Jordan was one of the most, if not the most, improved players on the team. I think he's got upside. He had a solid camp and preseason.

Marvin said the same thing.

[gregstephens]

Was Eli Manning worth the money for the Giants this year ?? I mean he didn't even take them to the playoffs.

I think it's a silly debate (if that's what this is). We have a QB that simply needs more weapons and better protection.

I can't envision going through the problem of having the QB spot being such a question mark and when it comes down to it, Carson isn't my issue.

They do need to draft a QB later to develop though, because I'm done with Carson's little bro. I see no upside for him...

Really? Dave Lapham stated that at the end of camp Jordan was one of the most, if not the most, improved players on the team. I think he's got upside. He had a solid camp and preseason.

I must have slept through the pre-season games where he looked solid. Ok, perhaps he's the most improved player on the team. Spray lemon-fresh Glade on a pile of crap, I'm sure the smell will vastly improve. Still be a pile of crap.

[HairOnFire]

Carson is worth the money because it keeps him on the roster.

Ding!

Granted, it can very easily be argued that Carson wasn't worth his paycheck last season, but THIS team will very happily pay the bill simply because THIS team will, from this point forward, attempt to reconstruct the same type of "Clockwork Orange" passing game THIS team used to feature.

[cincyhokie]

Was Eli Manning worth the money for the Giants this year ?? I mean he didn't even take them to the playoffs.

I think it's a silly debate (if that's what this is). We have a QB that simply needs more weapons and better protection.

I can't envision going through the problem of having the QB spot being such a question mark and when it comes down to it, Carson isn't my issue.

They do need to draft a QB later to develop though, because I'm done with Carson's little bro. I see no upside for him...

Really? Dave Lapham stated that at the end of camp Jordan was one of the most, if not the most, improved players on the team. I think he's got upside. He had a solid camp and preseason.

I must have slept through the pre-season games where he looked solid. Ok, perhaps he's the most improved player on the team. Spray lemon-fresh Glade on a pile of crap, I'm sure the smell will vastly improve. Still be a pile of crap.

Right. So improvement does equal upside. That's my point.

It seems like fans are becoming more and more impatient with players...perform now or they're busts...if he doesn't start he sucks. Coffman has one year here, doesn't play and many are labeling him a bust. Relax, I say.

Jordan is the 3rd string QB. 3rd String!!!! If he continues to improve, keep him. If not, let him go. Remember it is possible for players to get better over several years. What would be foolish is to let go of someone who is showing potential and improvement, especially someone with as much wiggle room as a 3rd string QB.

[kingwilly]

Carson is worth the money because it keeps him on the roster.

Ding!

Granted, it can very easily be argued that Carson wasn't worth his paycheck last season, but THIS team will very happily pay the bill simply because THIS team will, from this point forward, attempt to reconstruct the same type of "Clockwork Orange" passing game THIS team used to feature.

Should Carson simply not be up to the task of meeting the demand for improved play, this could be his last year in stripes. The whole point of the discussion is was he worth it...I think he was not. Now it is clear the WR's need improvement/overhaul, 2010 will serve as Carson's last "full pay" year, in my estimation. To me, if he falters he will need to take a pay cut or this team will need to move on.

It is unpopular to project these things but given the SoP loyalty to certain players, they could keep Carson here for years and years with no appreciable change. If Carson has any kind of personal drive or command in what gets done, he would want them to get a top-shelf WR or he might as well move along to a place where he could start over. There are plenty of teams who would kill for him (STL, WAS, SEA, SF, CLE, etc. etc)

In the context of players salaries, with Carson being the highest paid player in the moment I can honestly say he played below his pay grade, and there are plenty of reasons why, of which he does carry some blame.

[gregstephens]

Was Eli Manning worth the money for the Giants this year ?? I mean he didn't even take them to the playoffs.

I think it's a silly debate (if that's what this is). We have a QB that simply needs more weapons and better protection.

I can't envision going through the problem of having the QB spot being such a question mark and when it comes down to it, Carson isn't my issue.

They do need to draft a QB later to develop though, because I'm done with Carson's little bro. I see no upside for him...

Really? Dave Lapham stated that at the end of camp Jordan was one of the most, if not the most, improved players on the team. I think he's got upside. He had a solid camp and preseason.

I must have slept through the pre-season games where he looked solid. Ok, perhaps he's the most improved player on the team. Spray lemon-fresh Glade on a pile of crap, I'm sure the smell will vastly improve. Still be a pile of crap.

Right. So improvement does equal upside. That's my point.

It seems like fans are becoming more and more impatient with players...perform now or they're busts...if he doesn't start he sucks. Coffman has one year here, doesn't play and many are labeling him a bust. Relax, I say.

Jordan is the 3rd string QB. 3rd String!!!! If he continues to improve, keep him. If not, let him go. Remember it is possible for players to get better over several years. What would be foolish is to let go of someone who is showing potential and improvement, especially someone with as much wiggle room as a 3rd string QB.

Come on. Say what you mean and what the rest of us are thinking. Keep Jordan on the team because it keeps Big Brother happy. He's third string, somebody has to take the spot, so under that line of thinking, I'm cool with it. Nobody's buying into any argument that, were it not for Number 9, number 5 would be on ANY NFL roster, much less ours.

[cincyhokie]

Was Eli Manning worth the money for the Giants this year ?? I mean he didn't even take them to the playoffs.

I think it's a silly debate (if that's what this is). We have a QB that simply needs more weapons and better protection.

I can't envision going through the problem of having the QB spot being such a question mark and when it comes down to it, Carson isn't my issue.

They do need to draft a QB later to develop though, because I'm done with Carson's little bro. I see no upside for him...

Really? Dave Lapham stated that at the end of camp Jordan was one of the most, if not the most, improved players on the team. I think he's got upside. He had a solid camp and preseason.

I must have slept through the pre-season games where he looked solid. Ok, perhaps he's the most improved player on the team. Spray lemon-fresh Glade on a pile of crap, I'm sure the smell will vastly improve. Still be a pile of crap.

Right. So improvement does equal upside. That's my point.

It seems like fans are becoming more and more impatient with players...perform now or they're busts...if he doesn't start he sucks. Coffman has one year here, doesn't play and many are labeling him a bust. Relax, I say.

Jordan is the 3rd string QB. 3rd String!!!! If he continues to improve, keep him. If not, let him go. Remember it is possible for players to get better over several years. What would be foolish is to let go of someone who is showing potential and improvement, especially someone with as much wiggle room as a 3rd string QB.

Come on. Say what you mean and what the rest of us are thinking. Keep Jordan on the team because it keeps Big Brother happy. He's third string, somebody has to take the spot, so under that line of thinking, I'm cool with it. Nobody's buying into any argument that, were it not for Number 9, number 5 would be on ANY NFL roster, much less ours.

Haha. Ok. I really believe that Jordan had a good preseason and I think he's a capable 3rd stringer. Maybe instead we should trade for Curtis Painter?

He's the 3rd string QB, anyway. Why don't we get rid of JT first? Any 3rd string QB coming in here and saving this team from disaster is NOT going to happen anyways...so this is a moot point.

[ArmyBengal]

Seriously, I'd be cool with any scenario that equates to the Bengals getting a QB they can develop. I recall JT having a stellar preseason, but not so much Jordan. If he did, I missed it. For as much as people have bashed JT and wished him gone, what does that say that Jordan can't take the #2 spot from him ?? I think he's here due to big brother and little more and it has nothing to do with a mentality that if he doesn't start he must suck. It has everything to do with the fact that other teams routinely draft AND develop QB's that either take over their team or can be traded for something in the future. I just want the Bengals to be one of those teams. Anyone see the Jordan someday taking over or being traded for picks ?? I simply don't.

Paying Carson the money is well worth it in my mind simply because regardless of what you have your QB doing, it doesn't make sense to say you could get away with lesser talent. It simply doesn't make sense.

[cincyhokie]

Seriously, I'd be cool with any scenario that equates to the Bengals getting a QB they can develop. I recall JT having a stellar preseason, but not so much Jordan. If he did, I missed it. For as much as people have bashed JT and wished him gone, what does that say that Jordan can't take the #2 spot from him ?? I think he's here due to big brother and little more and it has nothing to do with a mentality that if he doesn't start he must suck. It has everything to do with the fact that other teams routinely draft AND develop QB's that either take over their team or can be traded for something in the future. I just want the Bengals to be one of those teams. Anyone see the Jordan someday taking over or being traded for picks ?? I simply don't.

Paying Carson the money is well worth it in my mind simply because regardless of what you have your QB doing, it doesn't make sense to say you could get away with lesser talent. It simply doesn't make sense.

Right. The difference here is that I think he has upside based on his preseason performance. I don't think JT is terrible either, for the record. The Bengals could draft a QB this year. It better be worth the pick if they are going to use it on a QB. This is going to have to be in the 1st 4 rounds. If they wait until the 5-7th rounds then we're back to Jeff Rowe. There's no point. So the question is if you want to get a QB to groom and then be good enough to trade, you better pick one early. I just don't think that we have enough depth and talent at other positions to do that right now.

[gregstephens]

Seriously, I'd be cool with any scenario that equates to the Bengals getting a QB they can develop. I recall JT having a stellar preseason, but not so much Jordan. If he did, I missed it. For as much as people have bashed JT and wished him gone, what does that say that Jordan can't take the #2 spot from him ?? I think he's here due to big brother and little more and it has nothing to do with a mentality that if he doesn't start he must suck. It has everything to do with the fact that other teams routinely draft AND develop QB's that either take over their team or can be traded for something in the future. I just want the Bengals to be one of those teams. Anyone see the Jordan someday taking over or being traded for picks ?? I simply don't.

Paying Carson the money is well worth it in my mind simply because regardless of what you have your QB doing, it doesn't make sense to say you could get away with lesser talent. It simply doesn't make sense.

Right. The difference here is that I think he has upside based on his preseason performance. I don't think JT is terrible either, for the record. The Bengals could draft a QB this year. It better be worth the pick if they are going to use it on a QB. This is going to have to be in the 1st 4 rounds. If they wait until the 5-7th rounds then we're back to Jeff Rowe. There's no point. So the question is if you want to get a QB to groom and then be good enough to trade, you better pick one early. I just don't think that we have enough depth and talent at other positions to do that right now.

I agree you CANNOT draft a high round QB with the needs on this team and a still serviceable Palmer. All other prior discussions and conjectures aside, I've never advocated getting rid of CP. However, don't completely discard the low rounders, or even no rounders. New England and Dallas seem fairly happy right now.

[HairOnFire]

Now it is clear the WR's need improvement/overhaul, 2010 will serve as Carson's last "full pay" year, in my estimation. To me, if he falters he will need to take a pay cut or this team will need to move on.

But when you say things like "To me" you're simply offering a personal opinion. Now ask yourself what Mike Brown's opinion is likely to be.

FWIW I'm betting the idea of tossing Palmer aside, just as he's attempting to rebuild the passing game from scratch, never crosses his mind.

It is unpopular to project these things but given the SoP loyalty to certain players.....

Loyalty to certain players like Carson Palmer? In one short sentence fragment you go from a scenario where Carson Palmer is tossed casually aside due to the size of his paycheck to another where he stays seemingly forever, doomed to mediocrity due to Mike Brown's willingness to blindy pay him too much coin, thereby starving the rest of the team.

If Carson has any kind of personal drive or command in what gets done, he would want them to get a top-shelf WR or he might as well move along to a place where he could start over.

Doesn't Palmer already have a top-shelf WR already on the roster? Or is Chad only considered that highly when I fantasize about trading him?

[cincyhokie]

Seriously, I'd be cool with any scenario that equates to the Bengals getting a QB they can develop. I recall JT having a stellar preseason, but not so much Jordan. If he did, I missed it. For as much as people have bashed JT and wished him gone, what does that say that Jordan can't take the #2 spot from him ?? I think he's here due to big brother and little more and it has nothing to do with a mentality that if he doesn't start he must suck. It has everything to do with the fact that other teams routinely draft AND develop QB's that either take over their team or can be traded for something in the future. I just want the Bengals to be one of those teams. Anyone see the Jordan someday taking over or being traded for picks ?? I simply don't.

Paying Carson the money is well worth it in my mind simply because regardless of what you have your QB doing, it doesn't make sense to say you could get away with lesser talent. It simply doesn't make sense.

Right. The difference here is that I think he has upside based on his preseason performance. I don't think JT is terrible either, for the record. The Bengals could draft a QB this year. It better be worth the pick if they are going to use it on a QB. This is going to have to be in the 1st 4 rounds. If they wait until the 5-7th rounds then we're back to Jeff Rowe. There's no point. So the question is if you want to get a QB to groom and then be good enough to trade, you better pick one early. I just don't think that we have enough depth and talent at other positions to do that right now.

I agree you CANNOT draft a high round QB with the needs on this team and a still serviceable Palmer. All other prior discussions and conjectures aside, I've never advocated getting rid of CP. However, don't completely discard the low rounders, or even no rounders. New England and Dallas seem fairly happy right now.

True but for every Brady there's 50 Jeff Rowe's. You more likely to find a "lucky" steal for a lineman or receiver in the 5-7th rounds, which is something this teams needs more.

Brady was a LUCKY pick. Nobody knew he'd be this good. Nobody.

[gregstephens]

Seriously, I'd be cool with any scenario that equates to the Bengals getting a QB they can develop. I recall JT having a stellar preseason, but not so much Jordan. If he did, I missed it. For as much as people have bashed JT and wished him gone, what does that say that Jordan can't take the #2 spot from him ?? I think he's here due to big brother and little more and it has nothing to do with a mentality that if he doesn't start he must suck. It has everything to do with the fact that other teams routinely draft AND develop QB's that either take over their team or can be traded for something in the future. I just want the Bengals to be one of those teams. Anyone see the Jordan someday taking over or being traded for picks ?? I simply don't.

Paying Carson the money is well worth it in my mind simply because regardless of what you have your QB doing, it doesn't make sense to say you could get away with lesser talent. It simply doesn't make sense.

Right. The difference here is that I think he has upside based on his preseason performance. I don't think JT is terrible either, for the record. The Bengals could draft a QB this year. It better be worth the pick if they are going to use it on a QB. This is going to have to be in the 1st 4 rounds. If they wait until the 5-7th rounds then we're back to Jeff Rowe. There's no point. So the question is if you want to get a QB to groom and then be good enough to trade, you better pick one early. I just don't think that we have enough depth and talent at other positions to do that right now.

I agree you CANNOT draft a high round QB with the needs on this team and a still serviceable Palmer. All other prior discussions and conjectures aside, I've never advocated getting rid of CP. However, don't completely discard the low rounders, or even no rounders. New England and Dallas seem fairly happy right now.

True but for every Brady there's 50 Jeff Rowe's. You more likely to find a "lucky" steal for a lineman or receiver in the 5-7th rounds, which is something this teams needs more.

Brady was a LUCKY pick. Nobody knew he'd be this good. Nobody.

50 Jeff Rowe's? Heck, for that matter, for every Brady there's 50 Akili Smiths also. Ask SoP. He'll find them.

[Pidge]

When did Carson sign the deal? I'm guessing at a time we were a throw first team and he hadn't had a litany of injuries? The problem with the offense is that we're a run first team. Out of design and, unexpectedly, out of necessity right now. In these circumstances he might be overpaid but you're worth what someone is willing to pay you so...

[Kazkal]

He signed it after 2005 season if i'm not mistaken maybe 2006.

[Walrus]

He signed it after 2005 season if i'm not mistaken maybe 2006.

Right before his knee imploded -- remember?
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