The "experts" speak on troubles with Palmer

[HairOnFire]

I don't think anyone is making excuses for Carson. There seems to me to be widespread acknowledgement that he shares in the blame for the offense's poor performance.

I agree. Rather than making empty excuses for Palmer most Bengal fans are debating what might be wrong with him, and how to correct things going forward. Those opinions vary greatly, but despite whatever personal opinions each of us might have...there seems to be widespread consensus that Palmer shares some responibility for the passing games prolonged failure.

Get more weapons for Palmer? Sure. Change the scheme? Why not? But regardless of what steps are taken nearly everyone agrees Palmer has to play better than he did last season.

[kingwilly]

I don't think anyone is making excuses for Carson. There seems to me to be widespread acknowledgement that he shares in the blame for the offense's poor performance.

I agree. Rather than making empty excuses for Palmer most Bengal fans are debating what might be wrong with him, and how to correct things going forward. Those opinions vary greatly, but despite whatever personal opinions each of us might have...there seems to be widespread consensus that Palmer shares some responibility for the passing games prolonged failure.

Get more weapons for Palmer? Sure. Change the scheme? Why not? But regardless of what steps are taken nearly everyone agrees Palmer has to play better than he did last season.

this has devolved to a Pong-esque position: Palmer needs to play better.

The offense will win more games if it scores more points. Water is wet.

It is exactly the debate as to how to correct things that is central to "playing better".

1. If the lot of us (not me) agree that he is physically fine, ie no torn shoulder, shredded elbow, bad knee/bad back.... then it could be his mechanics, which is a component of coaching.

2. If his mechanics had degraded, is Zampese the right guy to recognize this and get it fixed?

3. If it is not mechanics, is it the scheme which is contributing to the issues? Is the passing/blocking scheme placing undue pressure on Palmer? pushing him back, not enough time, throwing off his back foot? balls sailing wide or high? scheme also includes the subcategory of personnel. lots of downers here, so had they asked Carson to make too much chicken salad out of not enough chicken chit?

I am not sure that 1 is not true. From what we've seen from Palmer in the past, he did not show the same velocity or accuracy as he did. Watching other NFL QB's, is is a glaring discrepancy. He would make the infrequent throw with zip or pinpoint control, which caused most of us to shrug off the bad throws, but this prompted me to think that perhaps he was on some sort of pitch count. Often his best work was done at the end of games, when there was a limited amount of plays left, almost like they had been saving his arm just in case.

Maybe it is 2. Mechanics are probably the second most important thing behind raw talent. Take a talented guy and coach up his mechanics and motion and you get a Palmer. Zampese is his position coach so that relationship is a possible point of issue. In this case, it would mean that Carson's mechanics have gone sour and maybe Zampese is incapable of addressing it. Given the level that Carson came to the bengals at, and given that he learned initially from watching Kitna, Zampese was handed a refined throwing motion and capable player. The Carson of 09 was not the Carson of 05-06.

As for 3, the scheme, I think this is a big issue. Between the plays that are called and the players running them, this is probably 50% of the problem. I saw it noted that perhaps it was not Carson sailing a ball high but a WR running a route to shallow. Good point. But to me, it happened too often for it to be solely that. Coles and Caldwell were often in the wrong spot. often. they also often dropped passes that WERE on target. as did Princess Diva 85 hisself. No one is claiming to stay put with this group, as we can all recognize upgrading the WR group is needed.

Because the only probable outward changes we will see will be in the personnel, we may never know if Carson had a water logged arm, as it may heal and return to full strength. If they bring in some more proficient WR's, and Carson's lasers return, what was the issue will be surely proclaimed that is was the players. Since brat is coming back (though yet to be announced, which I find odd as the days slip by), we may see scheme changes based on upgrades at WR. If Brat can learn the strengths of the new players he gets, instead of imposing an scheme on them as in the past, this team will be better in the passing game. if Carson is still throwing whiffle balls on quick outs, and sailing passes or coming up short, you will hear me ask again if his arm is toast.

[HairOnFire]

It is exactly the debate as to how to correct things that is central to "playing better".

True, but you seem to be missing the part about whether Bengal fans are making excuses for Palmer. I say they aren't, and I point directly at the ongoing debate about what might be specifically wrong with Palmer.

For example: You think this, I think that, and those guys over there think something else entirely. But very few Bengal fans on any of the numerous messageboards I read have offered the opinion that there is absolutley nothing wrong with Palmer. As for the specifics themselves...

From what we've seen from Palmer in the past, he did not show the same velocity or accuracy as he did. Watching other NFL QB's, is is a glaring discrepancy. He would make the infrequent throw with zip or pinpoint control, which caused most of us to shrug off the bad throws, but this prompted me to think that perhaps he was on some sort of pitch count. Often his best work was done at the end of games, when there was a limited amount of plays left, almost like they had been saving his arm just in case.

I'm simply not buying the car you're selling. Palmers arm isn't a "zip gun" with a handy dial that controls how much life it has in any given moment. And you're saying Palmer's performance at the very end of games, when he looked his very best to you, is somehow proof of a dead arm? Doesn't that seem a trifle counter-intuitive? Finally, if you're still seeing occasional proof of Palmer's previous arm strength then I'd say you're seeing ample proof his arm is physically fine.

[gregstephens]

It is exactly the debate as to how to correct things that is central to "playing better".

I'm simply not buying the car you're selling. Palmers arm isn't a "zip gun" with a handy dial that controls how much life it has in any given moment. And you're saying Palmer's performance at the very end of games, when he looked his very best to you, is somehow proof of a dead arm? Doesn't that seem a trifle counter-intuitive? Finally, if you're still seeing occasional proof of Palmer's previous arm strength then I'd say you're seeing ample proof his arm is physically fine.

I don't think it's necessarily counter intuitive. Give you an example that I'm not saying necessarily applies to Palmer specificially, but acts as a general possible example. Let's say I go out to my yard and throw around the football with my son. I haven't throw a football in about five months. I'll throw fine that day. Tomorrow, however, I'll be sore. In fact, I go out and throw tomorrow, my shoulder will be very sore, affecting my passes for the first ten to fifteen, until I work through the pain and adjust, making my throws actually stronger and better towards the end of the session.

Again, not saying anything like that happened with Palmer this season, but giving an example of how it's not necessarily always counter intuitive.

[Pidge]

His accuracy is off. Whatever the reason for that, I'm not sure it's his arm strength. In fact, at time his deep balls (all 3 of them this yr) were remarkably accurate, resulting in a couple of TDs. The reverse of a few yrs ago. The medium routes have been the main problem, to my eyes. I contend his arm strength is fine, so what else could it be. His niggling injuries, lack of chemistry with receivers, not being given as much time in the pocket to let plays develop fully? Probably a little of all three.

Definite work for Carson to do in the off-season but he's not alone in that regard. Hopefully we read stories of the wide-eyed, full of determination, young WRs and TEs dragging themselves down to the harsh environment of coastal SoCal to get extra reps in with their QB before TC even begins.

[HairOnFire]

His accuracy is off. Whatever the reason for that, I'm not sure it's his arm strength. In fact, at time his deep balls (all 3 of them this yr) were remarkably accurate, resulting in a couple of TDs.

The very first offensive play of the season was a deep pass to Chad that slipped right through his hands....hitting his chest almost dead center between the ocho and the cinco. But overall I thought Palmers deep ball was a flatter low trajectory kind of toss, and more often overthrown than underthrown.

The medium routes have been the main problem, to my eyes.

And the hard sideline out patterns that Palmer and Chad used to feast on. Again, against the Steelers the Bengals offensive coaches were quoted about how those types of plays were the key to winning, but after hitting the first two for crap yardage and no 1st downs Palmer and Chad misfired on every attempt that followed. Palmers velocity? The same as it always was, and he certainly has plenty of experience throwing this exact pass to Chad, right? Yet nearly all of the misfires were the direct result of balls being thrown much too high or out of bounds.

Definite work for Carson to do in the off-season but he's not alone in that regard. Hopefully we read stories of the wide-eyed, full of determination, young WRs and TEs dragging themselves down to the harsh environment of coastal SoCal to get extra reps in with their QB before TC even begins.

You mean after Palmer fully recovers from surgery, right?

(sigh)

[SupaBran]

Btw, how in the hell did Carson not make the Pro Bowl before Vince Young or David Garrard?

Carson declined because he just had surgery on his non-throwing hand to fix his effed up thumb.

Thanks Ron. I honestly didn't know that he turned it down b/c the NFLNetwork doesn't mention that he was invited and turned it down.

[Pidge]

The very first offensive play of the season was a deep pass to Chad that slipped right through his hands....hitting his chest almost dead center between the ocho and the cinco. But overall I thought Palmers deep ball was a flatter low trajectory kind of toss, and more often overthrown than underthrown.

Good memory. Tends to lend credence that his arm is full-strength too.

And the hard sideline out patterns that Palmer and Chad used to feast on. Again, against the Steelers the Bengals offensive coaches were quoted about how those types of plays were the key to winning, but after hitting the first two for crap yardage and no 1st downs Palmer and Chad misfired on every attempt that followed. Palmers velocity? The same as it always was, and he certainly has plenty of experience throwing this exact pass to Chad, right? Yet nearly all of the misfires were the direct result of balls being thrown much too high or out of bounds.

Which is because of a lack of understanding/trust between them suddenly, the protection not being as good as necessary and a rushed throw or just Carson needing to sort it out himself?

You mean after Palmer fully recovers from surgery, right?

(sigh)

Forgot all about him needing his ligament fixed. That should be well on the way to healing by now though right? Tell me I'm right.

[gregstephens]

The very first offensive play of the season was a deep pass to Chad that slipped right through his hands....hitting his chest almost dead center between the ocho and the cinco. But overall I thought Palmers deep ball was a flatter low trajectory kind of toss, and more often overthrown than underthrown.

Good memory. Tends to lend credence that his arm is full-strength too.

No. All that adds credence to is an inference that at the beginning of the season, with months of rest and no accumulated throws under his belt, his arm strength appeared to be at top level in game one. I question how anyone can say his throws were as crisp or accurate on a consistent basis over all 16 games as they have been in seasons past.

[cincyhokie]

Palmer's accuracy seems to be being judged by one game. The playoff game against the Jets when it was terrible. Aside from that I can't think of any other games where his accuracy was a major problem.

I do know that against the Jets he wasn't comfortable in the pocket and he was admittedly nervous. I'll give the Jets some credit and Palmer some deserved flack for having a bad game.

Let's stop overreacting with the accuracy issue.

[gregstephens]

Palmer's accuracy seems to be being judged by one game. The playoff game against the Jets when it was terrible. Aside from that I can't think of any other games where his accuracy was a major problem.

I do know that against the Jets he wasn't comfortable in the pocket and he was admittedly nervous. I'll give the Jets some credit and Palmer some deserved flack for having a bad game.

Let's stop overreacting with the accuracy issue.

Absolutely. Just because his 60.5 percent completion rate is his career low for a full 16 game season, so what? Just because it's over 7 percent lower than his 2005 break-out season, even though the number of attempts for those two seasons are only 43 apart, so what? Just because it's almost 5 full percentage points lower than his last full season in 2007, so what? Just because his yards per attempt, touchdowns, total yardage and rating are the lowest of his career for a full 16 game season, so what?

Who needs accuracy?

[SupaBran]

Palmer's accuracy seems to be being judged by one game. The playoff game against the Jets when it was terrible. Aside from that I can't think of any other games where his accuracy was a major problem.

I do know that against the Jets he wasn't comfortable in the pocket and he was admittedly nervous. I'll give the Jets some credit and Palmer some deserved flack for having a bad game.

Let's stop overreacting with the accuracy issue.

It wasn't just one game. He had many issues with simple passes not being throw on point. Many of those could be the people he was throwing to or the protection at times but he was off on simple curls or crossing patterns sailing over the heads of an open receiver. I don't believe there's any 'overreacting' but just simply 'reacting'

[cincyhokie]

Palmer's accuracy seems to be being judged by one game. The playoff game against the Jets when it was terrible. Aside from that I can't think of any other games where his accuracy was a major problem.

I do know that against the Jets he wasn't comfortable in the pocket and he was admittedly nervous. I'll give the Jets some credit and Palmer some deserved flack for having a bad game.

Let's stop overreacting with the accuracy issue.

Absolutely. Just because his 60.5 percent completion rate is his career low for a full 16 game season, so what? Just because it's over 7 percent lower than his 2005 break-out season, even though the number of attempts for those two seasons are only 43 apart, so what? Just because it's almost 5 full percentage points lower than his last full season in 2007, so what?

Who needs accuracy?

Completion percentage increases when receivers get separation, agreed? Completion percentage increases when players don't drop the ball, agreed? It also increases when the QB doesn't have a busted hand and can run an effective play action.

Even if he was still getting over his elbow injury, wouldn't it be safe to say that he'll be healthier this year?

I guess I don't see where all the worry is coming from. There are logical explanations for things at times. The sky is not falling.

[gregstephens]

Palmer's accuracy seems to be being judged by one game. The playoff game against the Jets when it was terrible. Aside from that I can't think of any other games where his accuracy was a major problem.

I do know that against the Jets he wasn't comfortable in the pocket and he was admittedly nervous. I'll give the Jets some credit and Palmer some deserved flack for having a bad game.

Let's stop overreacting with the accuracy issue.

Absolutely. Just because his 60.5 percent completion rate is his career low for a full 16 game season, so what? Just because it's over 7 percent lower than his 2005 break-out season, even though the number of attempts for those two seasons are only 43 apart, so what? Just because it's almost 5 full percentage points lower than his last full season in 2007, so what?

Who needs accuracy?

Completion percentage increases when receivers get separation, agreed? Completion percentage increases when players don't drop the ball, agreed? It also increases when the QB doesn't have a busted hand and can run an effective play action.

Even if he was still getting over his elbow injury, wouldn't it be safe to say that he'll be healthier this year?

I guess I don't see where all the worry is coming from. There are logical explanations for things at times. The sky is not falling.

I agree that all of those things go into the equation. What I don't agree with, and I'm not necessarily saying you are doing this, but some are, is letting Palmer completely off the hook here. He didn't, in a vacuum, have a perfect season. He's a much better QB historically than Kyle Orton for example, but Orton skunked Palmer in almost every statistical category this year and he had Brandon Marshall and...not much else really.

That said, I'm not a 'dump Palmer' guy. Yes, he'll be healthier next year, although it seems like we are saying that every year and then something happens. Knee, elbow, thumb, whatever. Get him some new personnel, time to heal and a new playcaller, he'll be good.

[HairOnFire]

All that adds credence to is an inference that at the beginning of the season, with months of rest and no accumulated throws under his belt, his arm strength appeared to be at top level in game one.

Very well. Let the record now state Palmer's arm strength seemed fine on his very first throw of the season....per the evidence put forward by HairOnFire.

So who amongst us now wants to walk Greg through the finer points of Palmer's second throw of the season? And the third? And so on.

I question how anyone can say his throws were as crisp or accurate on a consistent basis over all 16 games as they have been in seasons past.

Well, I'm not saying that, and I doubt anyone else is either.

[cincyhokie]

Palmer's accuracy seems to be being judged by one game. The playoff game against the Jets when it was terrible. Aside from that I can't think of any other games where his accuracy was a major problem.

I do know that against the Jets he wasn't comfortable in the pocket and he was admittedly nervous. I'll give the Jets some credit and Palmer some deserved flack for having a bad game.

Let's stop overreacting with the accuracy issue.

Absolutely. Just because his 60.5 percent completion rate is his career low for a full 16 game season, so what? Just because it's over 7 percent lower than his 2005 break-out season, even though the number of attempts for those two seasons are only 43 apart, so what? Just because it's almost 5 full percentage points lower than his last full season in 2007, so what?

Who needs accuracy?

Completion percentage increases when receivers get separation, agreed? Completion percentage increases when players don't drop the ball, agreed? It also increases when the QB doesn't have a busted hand and can run an effective play action.

Even if he was still getting over his elbow injury, wouldn't it be safe to say that he'll be healthier this year?

I guess I don't see where all the worry is coming from. There are logical explanations for things at times. The sky is not falling.

I agree that all of those things go into the equation. What I don't agree with, and I'm not necessarily saying you are doing this, but some are, is letting Palmer completely off the hook here. He didn't, in a vacuum, have a perfect season. He's a much better QB historically than Kyle Orton for example, but Orton skunked Palmer in almost every statistical category this year and he had Brandon Marshall and...not much else really.

That said, I'm not a 'dump Palmer' guy. Yes, he'll be healthier next year, although it seems like we are saying that every year and then something happens. Knee, elbow, thumb, whatever. Get him some new personnel, time to heal and a new playcaller, he'll be good.

I completely agree with that and he does take some blame. Like he said after the game, "I was nervous". That's on him.

I think the situation will be more telling after we add receivers and Palmer gets his hand healed. I have faith that he'll be working his ass off in the offseason to get better. If he's not better next year, then there is a problem, no doubt.

[cincyhokie]

Things I noticed about Palmer this year:

He didn't react well to the change of playcalling and going more run and ball control oriented.

He did extremely well in the no-huddle and with the game on the line.

His play and the offenses ability to move the ball dramatically decreased after Henry went down and Palmer's hand was shredded.

The fault lies in Palmer with his inability to adjust to these circumstances. The circumstances were definately a factor in his play.

I believe that he'll be a better QB playing this type of ball control offense next year....hand healed....more receivers.

[HairOnFire]

What I don't agree with, and I'm not necessarily saying you are doing this, but some are, is letting Palmer completely off the hook here.

Who?

Who are all of these people who are letting Palmer off of hooks?

I want names.

[gregstephens]

Palmer's accuracy seems to be being judged by one game. The playoff game against the Jets when it was terrible. Aside from that I can't think of any other games where his accuracy was a major problem.

I do know that against the Jets he wasn't comfortable in the pocket and he was admittedly nervous. I'll give the Jets some credit and Palmer some deserved flack for having a bad game.

Let's stop overreacting with the accuracy issue.

Absolutely. Just because his 60.5 percent completion rate is his career low for a full 16 game season, so what? Just because it's over 7 percent lower than his 2005 break-out season, even though the number of attempts for those two seasons are only 43 apart, so what? Just because it's almost 5 full percentage points lower than his last full season in 2007, so what?

Who needs accuracy?

Completion percentage increases when receivers get separation, agreed? Completion percentage increases when players don't drop the ball, agreed? It also increases when the QB doesn't have a busted hand and can run an effective play action.

Even if he was still getting over his elbow injury, wouldn't it be safe to say that he'll be healthier this year?

I guess I don't see where all the worry is coming from. There are logical explanations for things at times. The sky is not falling.

I agree that all of those things go into the equation. What I don't agree with, and I'm not necessarily saying you are doing this, but some are, is letting Palmer completely off the hook here. He didn't, in a vacuum, have a perfect season. He's a much better QB historically than Kyle Orton for example, but Orton skunked Palmer in almost every statistical category this year and he had Brandon Marshall and...not much else really.

That said, I'm not a 'dump Palmer' guy. Yes, he'll be healthier next year, although it seems like we are saying that every year and then something happens. Knee, elbow, thumb, whatever. Get him some new personnel, time to heal and a new playcaller, he'll be good.

I completely agree with that and he does take some blame. Like he said after the game, "I was nervous". That's on him.

I think the situation will be more telling after we add receivers and Palmer gets his hand healed. I have faith that he'll be working his ass off in the offseason to get better. If he's not better next year, then there is a problem, no doubt.

I also agree that however he performs next season, no one will be able to question his work ethic during the off season. I guess the reason I've been vocal about dumping Brat while many others aren't is that I know if Carson is able to put together a complete season without any type of injury, a decent line and another good pair of hands, I don't want him to be handcuffed by a playbook that appears to have ten plays in it. Palmer's not too old to return to his prior great form. But if the opposing team knows everything that's coming because the plays used to work five years ago, it'll be a problem.

[gregstephens]

What I don't agree with, and I'm not necessarily saying you are doing this, but some are, is letting Palmer completely off the hook here.

Who?

Who are all of these people who are letting Palmer off of hooks?

I want names.

Well...go back through the thread itself and you'll find at least three that could qualify for this category. I won't point them out because then I'll feel like Elaine on Seinfeld when the Chinese restaurant guy stopped delivering to her because "She named names."

[Pidge]

I question how anyone can say his throws were as crisp or accurate on a consistent basis over all 16 games as they have been in seasons past.

If I could find one of them, I'd question them too. I thought it was precisely because many, if not everyone but a couple of contrarians, saw such issues that this thread and some on other sites exist. The cause for the problems in the passing game, Carson-specific or otherwise, is up for debate though.

[kingwilly]

I question how anyone can say his throws were as crisp or accurate on a consistent basis over all 16 games as they have been in seasons past.

If I could find one of them, I'd question them too. I thought it was precisely because many, if not everyone but a couple of contrarians, saw such issues that this thread and some on other sites exist. The cause for the problems in the passing game, Carson-specific or otherwise, is up for debate though.

...which brings us full circle.

Most obviously, it is a combination of things that led to a less than exemplary passing attack.

@HoF - You better believe he is a "Zip-Gun"...and he is a Field General, and a diplomat, and a train conductor and an orchestra conductor. If he is not, then he will end up replaced. Zip-Gun is up there in priority. If his barrel isn't straight, or his powder is not dry, we need to know why and how to fix it, metaphorically of course (not that any of us get this info or have a true role in what happens but this is the forum for speculation). For the sake of argument, let's say Carson gets his shiny new, fast WR's. And a TE. And they re-balance the offense, so his arm is more important than last year. And then he comes out misfiring....then what? bring in JT, or Jordan? Then what? If his elbow will never get stronger and it is downhill from here, what kind of an offense is it when he needs his elbow iced for hours when he throw more than 40 balls in a game?

To the idea that he is not a "Zip-Gun", that is wrong. He most certainly is.

While I agree that without ANY true evidence otherwise that Carson has a lingering injury or limitation in his throwing arm, he should bear only a moderate portion of the blame for the woes of the passing attack. The often grotesque WR/TE corp should shoulder the bulk for their poor results and the other big portion lands squarely in the lap of one Robert Brat-six-pack-owski.

Personnel, then Scheme, then Carson.

If Carson is hurt, then it goes: Carson, Personnel, Scheme.

NADS

[kingwilly]

From what we've seen from Palmer in the past, he did not show the same velocity or accuracy as he did. Watching other NFL QB's, is is a glaring discrepancy. He would make the infrequent throw with zip or pinpoint control, which caused most of us to shrug off the bad throws, but this prompted me to think that perhaps he was on some sort of pitch count. Often his best work was done at the end of games, when there was a limited amount of plays left, almost like they had been saving his arm just in case.

I'm simply not buying the car you're selling. Palmers arm isn't a "zip gun" with a handy dial that controls how much life it has in any given moment. And you're saying Palmer's performance at the very end of games, when he looked his very best to you, is somehow proof of a dead arm? Doesn't that seem a trifle counter-intuitive? Finally, if you're still seeing occasional proof of Palmer's previous arm strength then I'd say you're seeing ample proof his arm is physically fine.

It is circumstantial proof that his arm is preserved in a "Break Glass in Case of Emergency" case. Behind by 1-6, less than 2:00. Crack the glass and fire away...win the game. To me, it means they keep his arm as the "closer". And you don't roll your "closer" out there firing fast balls in the 5th. The proof is that his arm is seemingly managed in small doses, for reasons that go beyond "This is a running team" and "The WR's suck, so run the ball".

It sure looked like, and in retrospect the elephant has put on weight since the season ended, our QB was on a pseudo pitch-count. Did they not want to strain the arm, overwork it, use it up too early? Would that expose the fundamental weakness this team had? This is Occam's Razor. All the elaborate theories are fodder.

If the simplest answer is correct, then it was his arm.

[Pidge]

Who knows, I'm not convinced his arm is 'weak' but hey, it could be the case. I did see occasions when Carson was given a string of passing plays and he was hitting receivers in stride and was accurate. Now, had they stayed with that game plan for more than one or two series at a time, I can't say with certainty that he'd have kept that up. What Carson couldn't do was suddenly get us a third down when needed after a string of running plays with any regularity. I don't know if any QB could though. Not an excuse for Palmer, I just don't know the mindset of the position or specific players well enough to pass finite judgement on the issue.

Whatever the cause of Carson's problems with hitting certain routes etc, he has to lead the charge - player-wise - if he and the team is to improve.

Get 'er done.

[HairOnFire]

This is Occam's Razor. All the elaborate theories are fodder.

If the simplest answer is correct, then it was his arm.

But I have an even simpler answer.

It's not his arm.

It's just a slip in fundamentals.

In fact, you even admit the arm is fine.

Granted, you add qualifiers, but why quibble?

As for the pitch count theory, yes Palmer threw less, but that's easily explained.

Cedric Benson is the best player on the Bengals roster.

Thus, the gameplan goes through Benson.

And sure the Bengals threw more checkdowns this season.

Just like they said they would before the season began.

It was said to be a priority, right?

Furthermore, if Palmer really was on a pitch count then explain why they let him go off against Chicago? Or why they built a passing scheme against the Steelers featuring the type of hard outs a dead armed QB is least capable of throwing? Or why the Bengals deliberatly opened up the gameplan against the Chargers instead of trying to protect their suddenly noodle-armed QB with the same kind of grind we all learned to love?

NADS