Palmer positivity thread

[Whur CHad At?]

He looked this year like the same guy I saw 2006-08. I can recall pointing to his habit of throwing off his back foot, not stepping into throws and tossing airballs as a result back in '06.

That's still driving me crazy that it hasn't been fixed by now. I think it must be that Carson is "the guy" and unquestioned to the point that no one tells him that we're losing games because of his mechanics. Does or QB coach not have the stones to tell him that?

I remember in '06 thinking that it was a temporary mental block because of the injury, but it's time to put on the big boy pants and step into his throws.

this is the same bullcrap thinking when they were like "Rudi is our RB".

I mean, seriously, get him fixed up with a shiny new WR and scheme and we'll see. If his arm is shot, then everyone will have to swallow a very bitter pill and realize that no matter how well Benson runs or how good the defense is, this team wins and loses based on the QB. If Carson CAN'T do it, then they need a new one, or they will waste another 4-6 years wondering what is holding them back, and why end-arounds don't work.

That's exactly what he needs. Hopefully, he gets it. This team COULD run a hell of a balanced offense. Palmer, Benson, Scott, Chad. The O-line is improving. Get a solid TE, you know, one that catches the ball. This offense could be great.

We do have a TE. His name is Chase Coffman but apparntley we just wasted a draft pick on him like usual.

We'll see about Coffman. Apparently, he doesn't fit into Brat's scheme. If Brat goes, he may have a shot. The problem is he's not a good blocker...which made me ask immediately why the hell we drafted a guy that doesn't fit our scheme.

I was wondering the same thing. It's embarrassing to say the least of how poor this offensive coaching staff is at developing talent, i.e. Jerome Simpson, Chase Coffman.

[ArmyBengal]

This has been discussed to no end and we are back at the beginning yet again. You guys have to remember when Coffman was drafted that the thought was to have him sit the majority of the season behind Kelly and Utecht. His first year was supposed to be VERY much the learning one. Couple that with the injury he never really recovered from and there wasn't much reason to think he was going to be much of a factor at all this season. Injuries just happened to throw him into a situation NO ONE expected him to be put in and the microscope went on due to that. Foschi would have never been brought in had they thought Coffman was #1. ahead of the learning curve and #2. healthy.

I can't see anywhere why someone would think he doesn't fit the scheme they were runnning when the thought was to run more 2 TE sets. Furthermore, how can people now question that selection when they also had the Bengals selecting him in their mock drafts ?? Calm down people and give it another season and give that a chance.

Many people were claiming Odom was a complete waste of FA money and then look what happened when he was healthy.

[rwjcgc]

I still have some hope that Coffman will be able to play and live up to expectations. Simpson on the other hand ...

There are definite holes, will be interesting to see how the draft unravels. I don't think (and hope) that we can't

give good judgement on last year's draft yet.

[Whur CHad At?]

Many people were claiming Odom was a complete waste of FA money and then look what happened when he was healthy.

Yeah they figured out how to use Odom, almost ruined him and possbily did. They dont know how to use Coles. They expect him to be a over the middle type of reciever like TJ and he just isnt that. He is a deep threat that was never used. It was a damn shame.

[ArmyBengal]

Sure there is still hope for Coffman, why would anyone think otherwise ?? Silly.

I also don't think the Bengals ruined Odom. Just a bad situation.

[Stripes]

I think Palmer's fine.

When given time to throw his mechanics usually appear normal to me for a pocket passer. Only in the face of a strong pass rush does he normally throw from a backwards momentum, like any quarterback might. I'd even call this a strength of his, quite opposite to the weakness Aaron Rodgers examplified this season. Most other quarterbacks would have been sacked a lot more often behind that line because they'd have struggled making the quick reads and getting rid of the football. The problem for Palmer in that scenario? His checkdown options were terribly inconsistent. Coats was awful, Foschi did nothing until the final third of the season, and Benson's strengths don't lie in the passing game either. Who's left? Leonard and Scott? That situation needs immediate changes, which may well come with the maturation of Coffman, the potential return of Kelly, and/or a draft pick.

I don't think there's any serious problem with his throwing arm. He threw very few deep balls this season, so there isn't much of a sample to assess. I don't recall any alarming quanitity of them fluttering too short or landing far off target. When Henry, Chad, and sometimes Caldwell were deep in single coverage, Palmer generally did well to give them a chance at a big play when he had time for that type of throw to develop. Hell, even a couple times he had to flick it deep with a defender in his face and he still managed it (see Henry's 73 yarder at Baltimore).

Palmer leaned too heavily on Chad this year. Is that a sign of a real problem in Carson's game, or was it the result of his other options failing to get the necessary separation to earn his confidence? I'd definitely assume the latter before the former, and it was made worse by the whole receiving unit struggling all year long with dropped passes. Chad was the only one consistently running good routes and making routine catches, and so Palmer developed the habit of looking his way too often late in the season. Caldwell was still just a second year receiver, and at that position sometimes it can take a while to establish oneself as a weapon in any NFL scheme. Coles never really seemed to figure it out, either because the Bengals weren't using him properly or because he simply struggled to understand Bratkowski's offense (I'd assume the former first, because Coles has struck me as a cerebral character, someone capable of getting it right).

In the playoff game specifically, I think some of his errant throws can and should be attributed to the Jets defense. They were in lockdown coverage all night long against just about every skill position player. Nobody was open, since Revis was able to handle Chad with safety help and the others continued to struggle in the ways they have most of the season. With defenders step for step with all your receivers, you have to throw it absolutely perfectly to make a completion probable, and Palmer is hardly perfect. There were some high throws and some were behind the receivers. Palmer might well have done that on purpose some of the time to avoid interceptions. The defenders were in position to make plays.

[walzav29]

Palmer's fine. He just needs weapons. If you look at Kurt Warner you can see the difference when he got chased out of New York and then was a backup with the Cardinals. Then it's Fitzgerald, Boldin, Breaston he's throwing to and he's all world. The Bengals need another WR and a TE.

[Ickey44]

I'm not concerned about Palmer, he was bad yesterday, for the most part, but he rarely was given time, and depending on a high octaine passing game to get a win in sub-zero weather conditions, is not a good idea.

Unfortunately he needs, at least, a new G, C, quality TE, 2 WR's and another viable option to Benson. And we better hope Andre Smith is the real deal. An entirely new offensive coaching staff, including getting rid of Alexander, and a new system, would be nice.

Won't happen.

Why does he need a new center? Cook had a damn good year. I think if they just pick either Livings or Mathis either one of them would be fine. But subbing them in and out like that probably messes them up.

[Ickey44]

We do have a TE. His name is Chase Coffman but apparntley we just wasted a draft pick on him like usual.

Why don't you let him get healthy before you label him a bust, hmm?

[jjakq27]

It's a shame that one of his most reliable receivers this year ended up being Quan Cosby. He had minimal passes thrown his was but there were a few games where he proved that he could be a 3rd down, possession receiver for this team.

[Ickey44]

It's a shame that one of his most reliable receivers this year ended up being Quan Cosby. He had minimal passes thrown his was but there were a few games where he proved that he could be a 3rd down, possession receiver for this team.

He's not tall enough to catch any of Palmer's throws.......

[jjakq27]

No he's not but at least on the off chance that a pass does hit his hands, there is a better chance that he will catch it than the conglomeration known as JP Coates Caldwell N' Coles.

[Thurmanation]

They need a few things;

New OC

Young first round TE

Young second round Center/Guard

Brandon Marshall

Andre Smith to start

veteran DE that can be as effective as Odom was last year

new FS/SS i don't care which (crocker or williams) you just cant have two hard hitting safeties..ones gotta actually play coverage safety and not downhill LB

[ArmyBengal]

I guess I'm just going to have to deal with the thought of a TE in the 1st regardless of how meaningless it would prove.

Palmer's situation won't improve with another pass catching rookie that has to learn the system.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Again, my point is there was games this year he moved the ball VERY well, almost 2005 like. I think there is more to the equation than JUST the WR's.

No argument there, but getting in a rhythm requires receivers who can catch the ball and make plays, which our guys all too often did not. You don't build a rhythm with drops, false starts by a certain wideout, TEs with hands of stone (Coats) etc.

I think it is scheme. It starts with Brat going away.agree fully

Getting a guy like Scott the ball on pass plays. Why is this SO hard? agree fully

Why can't a guy like Simpson run two or three routes? If you are such an athlete, you can do a few plays well and make a difference.agree fully

Foschi was non-existent yesterday... How does that even happen? How do they pass to coates, who promptly dropsthe ball?Not many TE's make that catch it was so far behind him that he had his body turned completely around to even get his hands on it.

Give me a guy like Marshall or Boldin. They will have to do something like that. Make a move. Give Palmer weapons. Get the ball to playmakers like Scott.If Palmer can get the ball to them, either would be an improvment to the O.

Above all, convince me Palmer is physically fine and go fro there.The 64 million dollar question.

[Ickey44]

Why is everyone trying to get us a new TE? Foschi has turned out to be pretty solid. Plus, we have Coffman and Kelly coming back. There are greater areas of need. Specifically, WR and DL.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Why is everyone trying to get us a new TE? Foschi has turned out to be pretty solid. Plus, we have Coffman and Kelly coming back. There are greater areas of need. Specifically, WR and DL.

Eactly my thinking.

[cincy9275]

i think carson is a top 10 qb. i also think he has regressed some due to age and injury. then a terrible offense and lack of talent at the recever/te position. also part of the reason for the decline in his stats.

our offensive coaches are a embarrassment. they way zimmers unit played compared to brats. showed how completely incompetent the coaches on that side of the ball are. week after week zimmers guys keep us in games, only to watch brats unit look like a bunch of fools. add our S/T unit, a complete joke there. really it's amazing the bengals won 10 games.

[BengalPimp]

In the games I mentioned he threw to all of those receivers. Chad, Coles, Caldwell, even Foschi.

Yup -- and I think he threw to all of them yesterday, too. Not good enough. We need some difference-makers.

Again, my point is there was games this year he moved the ball VERY well, almost 2005 like. I think there is more to the equation than JUST the WR's.

Palmer is a rythym QB. This style of offense does not suite him. A pass first offense does. Earlier games this year seem to support what I am saying.

You make good points. i honestly don't think any of us know how much of an adjustment Carson really needed to make this year. First, his WR corps (including TE's)is the worst he's had since he's been in the league. Second, the young O-Line who were penalty-prone limited his ability to run the no-huddle. They false start when they know the play call and snap count, how the hell can you trust them with a no huddle? And MOST IMPORTANTLY, you tell your QB who has twice thrown for over 4,000 yards in a season that we are dedicating ourself to being a run-first team! That's not going to affect his rhythm? I don't agree with the way they made that switch...from a Pass-first, to run-first team....They needed to be more balanced....Enough with the I'm going to run no matter what stuff.....Do what works best, that's how you win!!! Thsy need more balance, too many times this season, they've abandoned the pass, and ran,ran,ran...

[cincyhokie]

In the games I mentioned he threw to all of those receivers. Chad, Coles, Caldwell, even Foschi.

Yup -- and I think he threw to all of them yesterday, too. Not good enough. We need some difference-makers.

Again, my point is there was games this year he moved the ball VERY well, almost 2005 like. I think there is more to the equation than JUST the WR's.

Palmer is a rythym QB. This style of offense does not suite him. A pass first offense does. Earlier games this year seem to support what I am saying.

You make good points. i honestly don't think any of us know how much of an adjustment Carson really needed to make this year. First, his WR corps (including TE's)is the worst he's had since he's been in the league. Second, the young O-Line who were penalty-prone limited his ability to run the no-huddle. They false start when they know the play call and snap count, how the hell can you trust them with a no huddle? And MOST IMPORTANTLY, you tell your QB who has twice thrown for over 4,000 yards in a season that we are dedicating ourself to being a run-first team! That's not going to affect his rhythm? I don't agree with the way they made that switch...from a Pass-first, to run-first team....They needed to be more balanced....Enough with the I'm going to run no matter what stuff.....Do what works best, that's how you win!!! Thsy need more balance, too many times this season, they've abandoned the pass, and ran,ran,ran...

Yep, and here is what Brat said about the offense in the .com:

“You just have to be more efficient in the throws,” Bratkowski said. “If you say balanced, you don’t run it as much, then you’re not as good a running team. You can’t say one thing and do another. But what has to come out of it is more efficiency and generate more big plays when we do throw.

“If you sit and tell the players one thing, but your actions don’t jive with what you’re telling them, they go, ‘They say we are, but we’re not.’ ”

This is evidence that Brat is limited in his scheme creativity. Sorry, buddy. You have to go.