redsbengalsbucks Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Carson, lost that game. He only played well enough to have them in it late in the foruth quarter, if Graham had not missed to gimme FG's.He was off target the majority of the day and was lucky to not have multiple INT's with the high throws and off target crap he let loose Sat.The WR's actually had a decent game, I only saw a couple of outright good throws that were dropped, all the rest were behind, high or just not anywhere near them. I saw many times the WR on a different route being wide open, only to have Palmer fling it into double coverage to the WR he wanted. A very sad performance for Palmer, and I hope he works hard during the offseason to correct his mental and physical mistakes/problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Here's my thing with passes high, low, behind, or whathaveyou: If those passes hit a WR in the hands, they should be caught more than not.That's not happening with our WR's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 My take? There's nothing wrong with Palmer's arm strength. He still flashes deep range, velocity, and a tight spiral...even in frozen conditions. But yeah, after acknowledging the problem before the season began Palmer's mechanics have actually regressed, and his accuracy has suffered dramatically. Palmer also seems unsure of his release point....leading to throws that are pushed rather than driven. So nutshelled, he's spraying the ball around instead of stunning us with his accuracy. Last, I'll repeat my opinion about what I believe is the greatest shortcoming in Palmer's game. Simply put, way too much emphasis is placed upon beating an opposing defense with precisely timed routes and throws....leaving very little room for impromptu playmaking. Or as Joe Gibbs pointed out while watching the playoff game, the Bengals passing game is too often based upon guessing by players who clearly aren't on the same page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 It should also be interesting to see how much of what we saw in regards to Carson's throws had anything to with the thumb injury he's going to have surgically repaired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Brooks21 Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 It should also be interesting to see how much of what we saw in regards to Carson's throws had anything to with the thumb injury he's going to have surgically repaired.The thumb injury is on his left hand, but hey all of the people who have man crushes on Carson will find a way to equate his thumb on his off hand having to do with him sailing it over his receivers heads. Hopefully Palmer will have somebody study his tapes and correct him on what he's doing wrong in his throwing motion. Hopefully this off season will be productive as last off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Palmer's mechanics have actually regressed, and his accuracy has suffered dramatically. This is the God's honest truth. Do the coaches have the balls to call him on it? Palmer's always been taken as the rock who will always be reliable, but his mechanics are terrible and he has to work on this in the offseason. I get the impression that Palmer doesn't get that he's a big part of the problem.Simply put, way too much emphasis is placed upon beating an opposing defense with precisely timed routes and throws....leaving very little room for impromptu playmaking. Or as Joe Gibbs pointed out while watching the playoff game, the Bengals passing game is too often based upon guessing by players who clearly aren't on the same page.Thing is, it worked for years because for the first 6 years of his career, his top two receivers were the same two guys - Chad and TJ. Carson spent the entire year expecting Coles to make the reads TJ would and he didn't. Our offense worked because the possession guy could find holes in the zone created by the speedy guys. I think Coles is also still used to being a primary receiver, and he needs to get over that. If he has any use, it's as a reliable possession guy because he has no speed. Kind of needs to not drop passes for that though.My hope is that they can actually get the QB and WRs on the same page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupdayta Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I think it's a combination of both Palmer's fault, inconsistency, injury? or whatever you call it AND that no one's getting open. Plenty of blame to go around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Palmer's mechanics have actually regressed, and his accuracy has suffered dramatically. This is the God's honest truth. Do the coaches have the balls to call him on it? Palmer's always been taken as the rock who will always be reliable, but his mechanics are terrible and he has to work on this in the offseason. I get the impression that Palmer doesn't get that he's a big part of the problem.Simply put, way too much emphasis is placed upon beating an opposing defense with precisely timed routes and throws....leaving very little room for impromptu playmaking. Or as Joe Gibbs pointed out while watching the playoff game, the Bengals passing game is too often based upon guessing by players who clearly aren't on the same page.Thing is, it worked for years because for the first 6 years of his career, his top two receivers were the same two guys - Chad and TJ. Carson spent the entire year expecting Coles to make the reads TJ would and he didn't. Our offense worked because the possession guy could find holes in the zone created by the speedy guys. I think Coles is also still used to being a primary receiver, and he needs to get over that. If he has any use, it's as a reliable possession guy because he has no speed. Kind of needs to not drop passes for that though.My hope is that they can actually get the QB and WRs on the same page.All very very true and excellent points.It made wonder as I watched AZ-GB game that if they threw Palmer into AZ's or GB's offense, could he make those throws... I think not. Not at this point. The real question is can he get BACK to how he played previously. MAYBE.I wholeheartedly agree that this scheme is far to limited to "safe" throws. Which is even more puzzling as there are no plays for Scott on a screen. The last time they screened Scott he went for 23, his longest pass reception of the year.With a running attack as solid and reliable as it is currently, adding ONE SERIOUS wr, and opening up the vertical game a bit, would make this team almost improssible to beat.I honestly feel this team is one player away. call me crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Ken Zampese was on the BengalLine show this evening and said that Carson's thumb injury had no impact on his passing and that there is really nothing else physically wrong with him.Dave Lapham felt like Carson had taken some hits from the Jets the week before and was jittery in the pocket on Saturday. In the most emphatic, judgmental voice that I have ever heard from him, he questioned why they continue to keep him in the pocket and don't roll him out or bootleg off of the solid run game we have. He felt like it is so easy to pass rush against us when the opposition knows that he will always be 5 or 7 steps behind the center every time. Dave and Lance were also talking about some of the early season success that the offense had when Palmer moved around.He also went on to dissect the receiving corps. The impact of the loss of Kelly, Utecht and Henry during the season. He mentioned that Caldwell was battling an ankle injury and Coles hurt his thumb during the game and Jerome Simpson was inactive. Simpson also has no consistency in practice and knowing the ins and outs of the pro game. He said at one point this season, Carson actually kicked him out of the huddle during practice. They both talked about what appeared to be a season long decline by Coles. Dave likened it to when James Brooks hit the wall in his early 30s and was done in a hurry.What was once a team strength is now probably it's weakest aspect. His priority is that they draft a WR in the first round and pursue a WR in free agency to rebuild this receiver corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 His priority is that they draft a WR in the first round and pursue a WR in free agency to rebuild this receiver corps.word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 His priority is that they draft a WR in the first round and pursue a WR in free agency to rebuild this receiver corps. Because we are the Bastard sons of Paul Brown and we WILL throw the ball around the yard, right? Whatever. Free agent? M. Floyd, San Diego Draft pick? D. Williams, USC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 It should also be interesting to see how much of what we saw in regards to Carson's throws had anything to with the thumb injury he's going to have surgically repaired.The thumb injury is on his left hand, but hey all of the people who have man crushes on Carson will find a way to equate his thumb on his off hand having to do with him sailing it over his receivers heads. Hopefully Palmer will have somebody study his tapes and correct him on what he's doing wrong in his throwing motion. Hopefully this off season will be productive as last off season.Not that I have a man crush on Carson after this season by any stretch, so that's not what I was getting at (making excuses) only thinking anytime a QB hurts a finger when working so much with their hands, it would have to come into play at least in some little way. I may be full on wrong, but was just giving thought, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Ken Zampese was on the BengalLine show this evening and said that Carson's thumb injury had no impact on his passing and that there is really nothing else physically wrong with him. As expected. It isn't physical. So what did Zampese think the problem was? Or doesn't he know? And if he doesn't, well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Ken Zampese was on the BengalLine show this evening and said that Carson's thumb injury had no impact on his passing and that there is really nothing else physically wrong with him. As expected. It isn't physical. So what did Zampese think the problem was? Or doesn't he know? And if he doesn't, well...his bad thumb is on his LEFT hand. Palmer is right-handed. It was a stupid question.I think there are lingering effects with Palmer's elbow (over or under-compensation) that is contributing to a mechanical problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Ken Zampese was on the BengalLine show this evening and said that Carson's thumb injury had no impact on his passing and that there is really nothing else physically wrong with him. As expected. It isn't physical. So what did Zampese think the problem was? Or doesn't he know? And if he doesn't, well...Yea really! Are these coaches watching the same game i did, and they can find nothing wrong with Palmer. I never seen Palmer so inconsistant like i did this year. I really cant blame the o-line they had some great games and gave him time to find the open WR. There were games where i felt the WR were not getting open, but in this last game Palmer is not reading the field. He was throwing to guys that were covered when there were open WR running on the other side. Maybe he is not seeing the field like he used to. Remember when he came up to the line, and would change his plays after looking at the defense, what happend to that, what happened to the no-huddle offense, change the tempo every no and then. They used to give him 3 plays and he would choose which play he wanted after looking at the defense, now it seems like he is not seeing the field as good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 His priority is that they draft a WR in the first round and pursue a WR in free agency to rebuild this receiver corps. Because we are the Bastard sons of Paul Brown and we WILL throw the ball around the yard, right? Whatever. Free agent? M. Floyd, San Diego Draft pick? D. Williams, USCI think he just wants some guys that might actually catch the ball if it happens to be nearby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 His priority is that they draft a WR in the first round and pursue a WR in free agency to rebuild this receiver corps. Because we are the Bastard sons of Paul Brown and we WILL throw the ball around the yard, right? Whatever. Free agent? M. Floyd, San Diego Draft pick? D. Williams, USCI think he just wants some guys that might actually catch the ball if it happens to be nearby. I'm giving him what he wants. Williams probably has the best ball skills of any wideout in the draft. And Floyd's a proven 26-year old veteran that won't cost what Boldin will and who doesn't bring the baggage Marshall will. Give Quan increased reps from the slot...freeing up Bubba Caldwell to run more deep routes. Give Coles a gold watch and a hearty thanks for the fish. And just for the record, no new TE. Make Coffman work or do without. So there, I fixed it for 'ya. Clockwork Orange Redux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ickey44 Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 And just for the record, no new TE. Make Coffman work or do without.Exactly. Even if Coffman busts, I think Foschi will do an adequate job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 And just for the record, no new TE. Make Coffman work or do without.Exactly. Even if Coffman busts, I think Foschi will do an adequate job.Thanks, and here I thought I was the only one who wants little (See nothing) to do with drafting a TE in the early round... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ickey44 Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 And just for the record, no new TE. Make Coffman work or do without.Exactly. Even if Coffman busts, I think Foschi will do an adequate job.Thanks, and here I thought I was the only one who wants little (See nothing) to do with drafting a TE in the early round...I honestly don't see the point since we spent a 3rd round pick on one last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walzav29 Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 People are nuts talking about Palmer. The guy lost TJ and Henry. Of course his numbers will dip. They will get him weapons and he will be fine. That needs to be the focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsbengalsbucks Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 People are nuts talking about Palmer. The guy lost TJ and Henry. Of course his numbers will dip. They will get him weapons and he will be fine. That needs to be the focus.I hope you are right, but he sure didnt look like an elite QB for the better part of this past season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walzav29 Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 People are nuts talking about Palmer. The guy lost TJ and Henry. Of course his numbers will dip. They will get him weapons and he will be fine. That needs to be the focus.I hope you are right, but he sure didnt look like an elite QB for the better part of this past season.Trust me. Receivers matter. Look at Brady's stats from Sunday without Welker. Check out Warner in NY before he went to Arz. People talk about Palmer after the knee injury, but he made the Pro Bowl the next season. His stats dipped when his running game disappeared and he lost his WR's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ickey44 Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 People are nuts talking about Palmer. The guy lost TJ and Henry. Of course his numbers will dip. They will get him weapons and he will be fine. That needs to be the focus.I hope you are right, but he sure didnt look like an elite QB for the better part of this past season.Trust me. Receivers matter. Look at Brady's stats from Sunday without Welker. Check out Warner in NY before he went to Arz. People talk about Palmer after the knee injury, but he made the Pro Bowl the next season. His stats dipped when his running game disappeared and he lost his WR's.Yes, but with a top 10 running game like we had that should've opened a lot of opportunities for the passing game and it didn't, which means one of two things. 1) our receivers suck and can't get open or 2)Brat is so damn predictable the defense knows when we're going to pass it and audibles it's plays to adjust. I think it's somewhere in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 And just for the record, no new TE. Make Coffman work or do without.Exactly. Even if Coffman busts, I think Foschi will do an adequate job.Thanks, and here I thought I was the only one who wants little (See nothing) to do with drafting a TE in the early round... Well, to be perfectly candid I didn't want Coffman in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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