Peko,Scott,and Crocker have to play this week

[Ickey44]

Nelson looks so lost out there. Hebert may suck in coverage, but I don't know how much worse he can be than Nelson. Hebert is MUCH better against the run, though.

[jjakq27]

Nelson looks so lost out there. Hebert may suck in coverage, but I don't know how much worse he can be than Nelson. Hebert is MUCH better against the run, though.

Lost and undersized. He was getting rolled out there.

[kingwilly]

Chris McAllister is on the street. he can stand in at FS and be better than Nelson.

Hebert wasn't so bad, just needs more time on the field in defensive situations.

[HairOnFire]

Their o-line isn't good enough to be a run-first team.

For the record, I think that's backward. I'd say their line isn't good enough to do anything consistently but run block, a decision the coaching staff apparently came to, and made adjustments for, long before the season started....thereby resulting in that much desired playoff berth you write about so often.

The pass should still set-up the run here.

Frankly, I have trouble squaring remarks like the above with your loud and oft repeated claims about this teams offensive line lacking talent overall.

Everything they're doing wrong is correctable, but we've yet to see it this year with the penalties - falls on the coaching staff ultimately.

Ultimately?

Isn't that just a silly way of saying the responsibility rests first and foremost with the player who ignored his coaches instructions? For example, how about Chad's seemingly endless fascination with false starting? How many times do you imagine he's been given specific coaching on that very point?

It's got to be a buttload, right?

[Ickey44]

Isn't that just a silly way of saying the responsibility rests first and foremost with the player who ignored his coaches instructions? For example, how about Chad's seemingly endless fascination with false starting? How many times do you imagine he's been given specific coaching on that very point?

It's got to be a buttload, right?

If they're doing any coaching on false starts then they obviously aren't doing it right because it's not just one player who's doing it. It's everyone from WR's, to OL's, to TE's. Almost everyone on offense has been having them. They need to find a new way to teach this lesson that most other teams don't seem to have a problem with.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Isn't that just a silly way of saying the responsibility rests first and foremost with the player who ignored his coaches instructions? For example, how about Chad's seemingly endless fascination with false starting? How many times do you imagine he's been given specific coaching on that very point?

It's got to be a buttload, right?

If they're doing any coaching on false starts then they obviously aren't doing it right because it's not just one player who's doing it. It's everyone from WR's, to OL's, to TE's. Almost everyone on offense has been having them. They need to find a new way to teach this lesson that most other teams don't seem to have a problem with.

I just don't know how coaches aren't responsible for season-long, repeated pre-snap penalties, it isn't just one player, it's multiple offenders every game.

Then again, and I hate to say it, but not having a convenient indoor facility to simulate noise and control the practice conditions, leads to the embarrassing scenarios we saw in SD and NY. Now, you have 0 degree temps and snow on the ground, how unprepared will they look this week? I hope they have the kid's soccer facility warmed up!

This team has had trouble stretching the field and constantly puts itself in long 3rd down situations - it's why if they don't pass the ball more often successfully - they lose. Most of their wins and of course their better offensive games have come from games where they threw the ball well (obvious).

As it stands this offense is woefully predictable, and not talented enough to dictate. But they do have a Pro Bowl QB who supposably can make all the throws, and if WR's aren't dropping 7 passes a game, they can win.

I guess it comes down to not playing sloppy, unprepared, mistake-free football as always.

[HairOnFire]

If they're doing any coaching on false starts then they obviously aren't doing it right because it's not just one player who's doing it. It's everyone from WR's, to OL's, to TE's. Almost everyone on offense has been having them.

I haven't seen the stat updated for a few weeks, but no, it hasn't been everyone. Whitworth and Chad have been the biggest false start offenders by a very wide margin. And both of those guys are considered well coached at each of their respective positions, right? Finally, the only comment I've found where Bengal coaches have made on the subject dealt with Chad's increased frustration stemming from constant double teaming...thereby prompting his misguided attempt to defeat that coverage by timing the snap.

Call me a hater if you want, but I think the player assumes all of the responibility for the resulting penalty under those circumstances, and I'm guessing I'd feel exactly the same way should I ever stumble accross an explanation of the factors leading to Whitworth's flags.

[Ickey44]

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/teamstats.asp?yr=2010&tm=4&btnGo=Go&type=rosters

Whitworth has 5.

Roland has 3.

Collins has 1.

Williams has 1.

Smith and Cook have 0.

Livings has 2.

Mathis has 3.

As you can see, Whitworth is the leader, but he's hardly been the only one. I can only find the penalty stats for offensive lineman. I'm still looking for position players.

The thing is, though, false starts aren't the only pre-snap penalties they're having problems with. Delay of game and alignment penalties have also killed this team. I don't know how you can not hold the coaches accountable for that when so many different people are making these mistakes.

Even if it's the players' fault, isn't it still the job of the coach to pull him aside and figure out a way to keep them from repeating the same mistakes?

[redsbengalsbucks]

/>http://hosted.stats.com/fb/teamstats.asp?yr=2010&tm=4&btnGo=Go&type=rosters

Whitworth has 5.

Roland has 3.

Collins has 1.

Williams has 1.

Smith and Cook have 0.

Livings has 2.

Mathis has 3.

As you can see, Whitworth is the leader, but he's hardly been the only one. I can only find the penalty stats for offensive lineman. I'm still looking for position players.

The thing is, though, false starts aren't the only pre-snap penalties they're having problems with. Delay of game and alignment penalties have also killed this team. I don't know how you can not hold the coaches accountable for that when so many different people are making these mistakes.

Even if it's the players' fault, isn't it still the job of the coach to pull him aside and figure out a way to keep them from repeating the same mistakes?

Yes, it is!!!

[HairOnFire]

As you can see, Whitworth is the leader, but he's hardly been the only one.

I wouldn't expect him to be the only one. But as I said, as of a few weeks ago when someone posted the stat on GoBengals, Whitworth, Chad, and Carson were the most penalized players on offense by very wide margins. So much so the Bengals coaches found it noteworthy enough to comment on Chad's performance.

The thing is, though, false starts aren't the only pre-snap penalties they're having problems with. Delay of game and alignment penalties have also killed this team. I don't know how you can not hold the coaches accountable for that when so many different people are making these mistakes.

Oh, but I do hold the coaches accountable for THOSE types of penalties. In fact, I've never failed to put the blame squarely at Brat's feet whenever the topic of getting in plays late is discussed. But a false start penality is an individual mental error and the blame for any repeated failure here is strictly the fault of the players.

Even if it's the players' fault, isn't it still the job of the coach to pull him aside and figure out a way to keep them from repeating the same mistakes?

Haven't we seen enough examples of Marvin attempting to do just that? For example, in an earlier thread based upon sideline video filmed by NFL films you could clearly hear Marvin berating Tank Johnson and Pat Sims for jumping offsides. One week later both players repeated the exact error. So "ultimately"....(sniff)...who is to blame for the repeated failures?

Just saying.

[Ickey44]

I understand what you're saying. False starts and offside penalties are strictly the fault of that player. But if you have a repeat offender, it is then the coaches job to step in and teach, coach, threaten, or do whatever is necessary to make that player learn not to commit penalties. Good coaches can do that. Brat, obviously, can't. I know there's drills they can do for both offense and defense to get the to stay still until the ball is snapped.

I don't know how you fix the delay of game issue. Brat's never had that problem before this year.

[derekshank]

I don't know how you fix the delay of game issue. Brat's never had that problem before this year.

Not true, It's been a consistent frustration for me with the Bengals since '05. Not sure who the problem is. I don't know if it's Brat getting it in late, Palmer calling an audible too late, players having no sense of urgency to get set after they go in motion, or what... but there have been plenty of them, and all three of those reasons I've suggested have appeared to be the problem at one time or another.

[jjakq27]

One thing I noticed is that they stopped trying to catch teams offside with that quick snap-kneel thing that Carson used to do.

[derekshank]

One thing I noticed is that they stopped trying to catch teams offside with that quick snap-kneel thing that Carson used to do.

I assume that it is because of Cook. That's always been something that was the responsibility of the Center. When someone jumped offsides, the Center just snaps it quick, and the QB would kneel it. They did it regardless if it was Carson, Kitna, or Fitzpatrick. Braham was good at it. Gaycheck was able to do it as well. Cook never even tries. I assumed it was just something Alexander worked with a lot with his centers, but maybe not.

[jjakq27]

One thing I noticed is that they stopped trying to catch teams offside with that quick snap-kneel thing that Carson used to do.

I assume that it is because of Cook. That's always been something that was the responsibility of the Center. When someone jumped offsides, the Center just snaps it quick, and the QB would kneel it. They did it regardless if it was Carson, Kitna, or Fitzpatrick. Braham was good at it. Gaycheck was able to do it as well. Cook never even tries. I assumed it was just something Alexander worked with a lot with his centers, but maybe not.

Could be. It just seemed like we did it more than most and we're very good at it most of the time. There was always some hesitation or delay which would often dray a procedure penalty. IF it's there, take it. If not, just run your offense and don't focus on finesse or trickiness all the time.

[Kazkal]

One thing I noticed is that they stopped trying to catch teams offside with that quick snap-kneel thing that Carson used to do.

That's good it was nice catch other team offsides but hated when it would be a loss of down.

[Ickey44]

I don't know how you fix the delay of game issue. Brat's never had that problem before this year.

Not true, It's been a consistent frustration for me with the Bengals since '05. Not sure who the problem is. I don't know if it's Brat getting it in late, Palmer calling an audible too late, players having no sense of urgency to get set after they go in motion, or what... but there have been plenty of them, and all three of those reasons I've suggested have appeared to be the problem at one time or another.

I really don't remember it being a problem like this before this year. I'll take your word for it. I really hope Marvin decides to bring on a new OC next year.

[redsbengalsbucks]

One thing I noticed is that they stopped trying to catch teams offside with that quick snap-kneel thing that Carson used to do.

I assume that it is because of Cook. That's always been something that was the responsibility of the Center. When someone jumped offsides, the Center just snaps it quick, and the QB would kneel it. They did it regardless if it was Carson, Kitna, or Fitzpatrick. Braham was good at it. Gaycheck was able to do it as well. Cook never even tries. I assumed it was just something Alexander worked with a lot with his centers, but maybe not.

Could be. It just seemed like we did it more than most and we're very good at it most of the time. There was always some hesitation or delay which would often dray a procedure penalty. IF it's there, take it. If not, just run your offense and don't focus on finesse or trickiness all the time.

I always hated that play, if you know there is going to be a D penalty, run the play and hopefully it results in better than the penalty yardage. Throw the deep bomb and pray in is completed, an INT is coming back anyway.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Just curious, do you all think that Peko and Crocker will make any impact in this game, after not playing for a month?

I think we can all agree that Nelson has been a weak link in the secondary, in replacing Crock, but he has been active (although overmatched).

Also, how about playing Peko and Shaun Smith at the same time? I thought Shaun looked pretty decent last week, after not playing in a while. Peko, Shaun and Tank could be pretty formidable, with Fanene in on passing downs. If Peko is healthy, I don't see much dropoff at the position, as far as the Sims injury goes. Sims has been the most disappointing player on defense this year, in my mind, after how he played in the preseason. The key to this game will be stopping the run, as far as the Bengals are concerned. I don't think that "Dirty" Sanchez can beat the Bengals with his arm on the road at PBS.

After thinking about it, I think the Jets are vulnerable against pass-catching RBs, so I would almost like to see Scott and Leonard in the game more as targets against a Jets team that blizes most of the time. The only way we lose this game is if we can't find another target not named Ochocinco in the passing game, and I think Foschi should help. We need to covert at least 45% of third downs, and we all know that Leonard is magic, in those situations.