Points Against after week 11

[HoosierCat]

No argument. But there's a big difference between playing for field goals and settling for field goals due to the mistakes you make. In the case of the former, I support gameplanning built around the run, stopping the run, killing the clock, and brutal low scoring affairs. It's served this team very well, and if they want to keep gameplanning for field goals under those narrow circumstances I'm all for it.

As a general statement, I agree. The problem in the case of the 2009 Bengals is that gameplanning for FGs is a questionable strategy when your kicking game has been as iffy as ours. That, of course, is why Brad St. Louis got an uncharacteristically (for Cincinnati) quick hook, but even after that The Franchise missed a crucial, very makeable 37-yarder against Oakland and it bit the team in the behind.

In short, I'm more comfortable with the kicking game now than I was before St. Louis got the boot, but I'm not ready to call relying on it a good strategy yet. That 53-yard freebie last weekend helped, but finding the end zone more often still strikes me as preferable.

[HairOnFire]

So I'll amend my earlier statement:

I believe the Bengals can use this boring strategy to beat any and every team in the NFL, as long as they cut down on penalties and hold on to the damn football.

Not as inspiring as I might hope for, but maybe I can help by pointing out the above represents this teams baseline. A worst-case scenario.

And for me it isn't boring.

At least not when Benson is running.

[HairOnFire]

As a general statement, I agree.

But....

The problem in the case of the 2009 Bengals is that gameplanning for FGs is a questionable strategy when your kicking game has been as iffy as ours.

So you'd rather rely even more on a struggling Carson Palmer simply because Shayne Graham is also underperforming?

....The Franchise missed a crucial, very makeable 37-yarder against Oakland and it bit the team in the behind.

Well, that was a well bitten behind, wasn't it? Plenty of errors to complain about...and no Benson.

[derekshank]

So I'll amend my earlier statement:

I believe the Bengals can use this boring strategy to beat any and every team in the NFL, as long as they cut down on penalties and hold on to the damn football.

Not as inspiring as I might hope for, but maybe I can help by pointing out the above represents this teams baseline. A worst-case scenario.

And for me it isn't boring.

At least not when Benson is running.

Agreed. I'm a fan of this stout defense, and for my part I find them as entertaining as anything the Bengals have produced in over a decade. And after the Bengals kicked their first FG against the Browns, I gleefully exclaimed that the Bengals had managed to take nearly 9 minutes of the clock with just one possession. I love that s**t!

But as you probably noticed this past week, despite a very effective running game, the fans were booing at the continued running rather than throwing around the field. So when I say "boring" it is speaking for the vocal opinion of those whom you have so eloquently named "the bastard sons of Paul Brown". They don't find this team nearly as entertaining as the '05 one. But I think most of us understand this one is better... Most of us.

[HoosierCat]

The problem in the case of the 2009 Bengals is that gameplanning for FGs is a questionable strategy when your kicking game has been as iffy as ours.

So you'd rather rely even more on a struggling Carson Palmer simply because Shayne Graham is also underperforming?

Pick your poison. The Bengals have matched a solid D with a grind-it-out offense, which increases the importance of their kicking game. But that kicking game turns out to be witchy. So...plow ahead with The Plan and hope special teams shakes off the blues, or put a little more weight on the shoulders of that $100 million guy you have behind center?

Right now, they've decided to stick with The Plan. OK. Worked last weekend. The weekend prior, not so much. We'll see how it goes. My suspicion is that they are going to have call upon Palmer and the O for more than just an occasional fourth-quarter miracle down the stretch.

[cincyhokie]

This week we should see the offense open up the passing game against the league's worst pass defense. It would also be a good time to try out some different conbinations at WR.

I'm curious to see what Cosby can do in place of Henry. He's got the speed to stretch the field. We need to do something.

[HoosierCat]

I'm curious to see what Cosby can do in place of Henry. He's got the speed to stretch the field. We need to do something.

Well, you touched on the crux of the issue. They need a replacement for Henry. But Simpson isn't ready and there's no unsigned Speedy McWaterboy waiting for his phone to ring. So I understand why they are sticking with The Plan. But Brat needs to crank up some contingency plans. Allegedly he's an offensive genius, so he needs to find some way to get more out of Chad + a bunch of possession receivers who have never been in my kitchen.

[cincyhokie]

I'm curious to see what Cosby can do in place of Henry. He's got the speed to stretch the field. We need to do something.

Well, you touched on the crux of the issue. They need a replacement for Henry. But Simpson isn't ready and there's no unsigned Speedy McWaterboy waiting for his phone to ring. So I understand why they are sticking with The Plan. But Brat needs to crank up some contingency plans. Allegedly he's an offensive genius, so he needs to find some way to get more out of Chad + a bunch of possession receivers who have never been in my kitchen.

Yeah, well the last 2 weeks and with this next game coming up we could stick with this plan. When we get to Minnesota and SD we're either going to see what Brat has come up with in making this offense more balanced or we're going to see how this offense can respond in a shootout. I like our defense alot but the more explosive teams come playoff time, i.e. Colts, Pats are going to pose a matchup problem. Big time.

[Kazkal]

No, we don't. I like touchdowns as much as the next guy, but I have to repeat.....I'm amazed by how often I look up to see the Bengals with a two score lead. And with this teams running game and stout defense that's been more than enough most weeks.

[JoePong]

Well, the fact is, I AM taking into account the game situations.

We have lost 3 games this season. Two of those losses occurred because our offensive ineptitude gave us no margin of error and put us in position to lose on a fluke play at the end of the game. It happened against Denver. It happened against Oakland. The third loss occurred against Houston after we had a halftime lead and our offense was shut out in the 2nd half. Sure, the defense didn't play great either, but isn't that eactly the point? You can't count on the defense to shut out the opponent which our defene would have had to do in that 2nd half in order for us to win. You have to be able to score.

And despite what someone on this board keeps saying, we did not have multiple score leads in those situations and were just trying to run out the clock. We never had a lead against denver until the final minute. We only led against Houston briefly during the halftime intermission. Most of the oakland game , the raiders were within one score.

Do you really think our offensive strategy is to have the game so close at the end that one flukey bounce can cost you the game? I don't think so. If you think the bengals are content to be up by a mere one score and then stop worrying about scoring and just trying to use the clock, you are wrong. If that is the game plan, then the bengals are stupid.

Sure, you can point to the 8-3 record. But that's still 3 losses. Guess how many losses it takes to knock you out of the playoffs? Just one.

[kingwilly]

Well, the fact is, I AM taking into account the game situations.

We have lost 3 games this season. Two of those losses occurred because our offensive ineptitude gave us no margin of error and put us in position to lose on a fluke play at the end of the game. It happened against Denver. It happened against Oakland. The third loss occurred against Houston after we had a halftime lead and our offense was shut out in the 2nd half. Sure, the defense didn't play great either, but isn't that eactly the point? You can't count on the defense to shut out the opponent which our defene would have had to do in that 2nd half in order for us to win. You have to be able to score.

And despite what someone on this board keeps saying, we did not have multiple score leads in those situations and were just trying to run out the clock. We never had a lead against denver until the final minute. We only led against Houston briefly during the halftime intermission. Most of the oakland game , the raiders were within one score.

Do you really think our offensive strategy is to have the game so close at the end that one flukey bounce can cost you the game? I don't think so. If you think the bengals are content to be up by a mere one score and then stop worrying about scoring and just trying to use the clock, you are wrong. If that is the game plan, then the bengals are stupid.

Sure, you can point to the 8-3 record. But that's still 3 losses. Guess how many losses it takes to knock you out of the playoffs? Just one.

Joe, you have YET to provide ANY insight as to HOW they will be scoring these points you yearn for. Sure, the passing game is "off". I agree.

Yes, the defense cannot carry the team EVERY game. I agree.

Now what?

I have given my input as to how they can get it jump started. Where is your INSIGHT?

What are you adding, again, to the line of thought that they need to score more points? You only need to score more than the other team by one to win.

You seem like the kind of guy who would stand around, describing the water, while your buddy drowns. Or haggling over the price of life vests as the boat sinks.

[HoTbOy]

According to Pro-Football-Refence.com the year the Ravens won the SB they were 18th in scoring @ 18.9 a game, and 4th in PA @ 16.6 a game...The Bengals currently score 21 a game for 16th and they are 1st in PA @ 15.8...I agree with you Joe about the passing game needs to open it up more or fix whatever is wrong, maybe they miss CHenry more than they thought, I also would like for them to score maybe 3-5 points more, but none the less they are running and wearing down defenses and not letting teams score...

[Pidge]

Does that make Carson the new Trent Dilfer?

[Ickey44]

The Bengals have a QB. And he can win you games if and when the other guy forces you to play his game instead of yours. But the grinding style has served the Bengals very well so far. In fact, it can be argued only one team, Houston, has managed to put this team in a position where it actually needed to score far more points throughout the game to have a chance to win at the end.

How is Palmer going to win us games when he can't complete passes and is constantly under pressure? The last two games the pass protection has been plain s**tty. I would agree with your assessment otherwise. Palmer isn't going to win us games if he doesn't have time to set and throw. That's what they need to get fixed. Also, Palmer has been off-target the last couple of games as well.

They need to get the passing game working again because at some point they're going to have to rely on it.

[HairOnFire]

But as you probably noticed this past week, despite a very effective running game, the fans were booing at the continued running rather than throwing around the field. So when I say "boring" it is speaking for the vocal opinion of those whom you have so eloquently named "the bastard sons of Paul Brown". They don't find this team nearly as entertaining as the '05 one.

Exactly. All I've heard over the last couple of weeks is how boring the games are, how mediocre Palmer looks, how the passing game has to step up right now...winning football be damned, how much the Bengals miss Chris Henry, how the Bengals need to start scoring more points now....as if they could save them for later use against higher scoring teams. It's ALL bulls**t.

Carson Palmer said it perfectly when he described the Browns game. How the Browns had overplayed the pass and LET the Bengals run for 200 bruising clock-killing yards. Yet even now, after hearing those remarks, what do we hear from the Bastard Sons of Paul Brown? A growing chorus of "Open it up, Brat. We need to throw the ball more. We are not entertained by running the ball. So try winning games another way, please."

[HairOnFire]

The problem in the case of the 2009 Bengals is that gameplanning for FGs is a questionable strategy when your kicking game has been as iffy as ours.

So you'd rather rely even more on a struggling Carson Palmer simply because Shayne Graham is also underperforming?

Pick your poison.

Most weeks they won't have to. Because most opposing teams have a certain amount of say in how your team will play against them. For example, Carson Palmer spoke recently about how the Browns had allowed the Bengals to rush for over 200 yards rather than weaken their pass defense. And one week prior I listened to Raider coach Tom Cable explain how his team would overplay the pass while crossing their fingers hoping Cincy didn't run for crazy yardage on the ground. As it turns out the Bengals did just that, but fumbled the game away.

The Bengals have matched a solid D with a grind-it-out offense, which increases the importance of their kicking game. But that kicking game turns out to be witchy. So...plow ahead with The Plan and hope special teams shakes off the blues, or put a little more weight on the shoulders of that $100 million guy you have behind center?

Have the Bengals ever shown a lack of faith in Carson Palmer? I don't think they have. So if they're not using his arm to win MOST games....shouldn't that tell us something? Like maybe, they think there's a better way to win consistently?

[HairOnFire]

Do you really think our offensive strategy is to have the game so close at the end that one flukey bounce can cost you the game? I don't think so.

Me either. Happily, I'm not the dumbass who wrote such nonsense. You are.

If you think the bengals are content to be up by a mere one score and then stop worrying about scoring and just trying to use the clock, you are wrong.

Nobody thinks that, Joe.

If that is the game plan, then the bengals are stupid.

No, it's not the game plan, Joe. It's just another example of you saying something stupid before blasting away at your own ravings.

Sure, you can point to the 8-3 record.

Not only will I point to it, I'm also gonna shake my ass in your face while instructing you to "suck it".

But that's still 3 losses. Guess how many losses it takes to knock you out of the playoffs? Just one.

Well, that's some worthless stuff you've just written, Joe. Bottom of the barrel stuff when you get right down to it.

Thus, I sense closure coming.

[HairOnFire]

How is Palmer going to win us games when he can't complete passes and is constantly under pressure? The last two games the pass protection has been plain s**tty. I would agree with your assessment otherwise.

So, I guess I'll wait here while you think about what's been different about the Bengals offense over the last two weeks.

[Ickey44]

How is Palmer going to win us games when he can't complete passes and is constantly under pressure? The last two games the pass protection has been plain s**tty. I would agree with your assessment otherwise.

So, I guess I'll wait here while you think about what's been different about the Bengals offense over the last two weeks.

Wait where you want, but that's doesn't change the fact that to we're not going to beat Minnesota or San Diego running the ball 45 times a game. You know it as well as I do. By the way, what's been different the last two weeks is that the pass offense as a whole has been pathetic.

YOU are the one that said Carson can win a game for us if he needs to but I don't have that faith right now considering he's been missing easy throws and been getting pressured from defenses like Oakland and Cleveland.

So since you know all, help put my doubts at ease by explaining to me why it's no problem if Carson barely completes 50% of his passes and gets sacked 3 times a game while getting hit a few more while he's throwing the ball. Also, explain to me why that doesn't concern you in the least. Surely you don't think we'll be able to run 45 times a game against good teams we'll face in the playoffs and win.

[HairOnFire]

How is Palmer going to win us games when he can't complete passes and is constantly under pressure? The last two games the pass protection has been plain s**tty. I would agree with your assessment otherwise.

So, I guess I'll wait here while you think about what's been different about the Bengals offense over the last two weeks.

.... what's been different the last two weeks is that the pass offense as a whole has been pathetic.

Nope, try again. And this time try to be specific. For example, you might look for something or SOMEONE that is suddenly missing from the gameplan.

BTW, I have full confidence in you.

Wait where you want, but that's doesn't change the fact that to we're not going to beat Minnesota or San Diego running the ball 45 times a game. You know it as well as I do.

Bull f**king s**t. Give the Bengals 45 rush attempts against any team and I'm marking up a "W".

YOU are the one that said Carson can win a game for us if he needs to but I don't have that faith right now considering he's been missing easy throws and been getting pressured from defenses like Oakland and Cleveland.

That's your opinion. I have mine. So let's sit back and watch what happens, ehh? Why pretend the Bengals have already lost games that haven't been played yet?

So since you know all...

Don't get pissy on me.

...help put my doubts at ease by explaining to me why it's no problem if Carson barely completes 50% of his passes and gets sacked 3 times a game while getting hit a few more while he's throwing the ball.

I can't explain things to you until you correctly answer the question of the day. (See above)

Surely you don't think we'll be able to run 45 times a game against good teams we'll face in the playoffs and win.

I don't think any one thing will allow any team to beat every team it faces, but to answer your question.....I think the grinding gameplan will be enough to beat SOME of the potential playoff teams the Bengals might face. As for the others, I have more faith in Palmer than you, right?

[walzav29]

You'll never guess who was ranked Number 1 last yr in Pts Allowed and Avg. 21 pts a game. The pittsburgh Steelers. Do you know the 3 highest scoring teams in NFL History?

2007 New England

1998 Minnesota Vikings

1983 Washington Redskins

None won a Superbowl. Let's not forget where the Bengals high flying high octane pass 1st offense got us. NO WHERE. But as proven with Palmers 3 game winning drives he is the difference. This is the right formula guys. It's the only way we can get there. You are not going to win a shoot out with Manning. The passing game has to get crisper, and you know they are capable. We are all still irritated by the Oakland loss, but be ready when they win the next 2. The hype is going to get ridiculous, and San Diego is the one we need.

[Ickey44]

Nope, try again. And this time try to be specific. For example, you might look for something or SOMEONE that is suddenly missing from the gameplan.

Surely you're not trying to suggest that a running back being out is affecting the way our offensive line blocks and the way our quarterback throws the ball. Especially considering that we've had a 100 yard rusher in each of the last two games.

Bull f**king s**t. Give the Bengals 45 rush attempts against any team and I'm marking up a "W".

In hindsight, that's a perfectly plausible statement. However, with games coming up against San Diego and Minnesota, do you think 16 points will be enough? I love this defense and have faith in them, but those are two really good offenses. I just don't see 45 carries getting us enough points to beat those two teams, which was my original point.

That's your opinion. I have mine. So let's sit back and watch what happens, ehh? Why pretend the Bengals have already lost games that haven't been played yet?

I'm not pretending anything. All I'm saying is that the passing game needs to improve if we're going to win some tough games coming up. I doubt some of the better teams coming up are going to give us the run and play two-deep every play like the Browns and Raiders did.

I can't explain things to you until you correctly answer the question of the day. (See above)

You can't just explain to me why you're not concerned that our passing attack has been so out of sync the last couple of weeks? If you have some insight here the rest of us don't, why not share?

I don't think any one thing will allow any team to beat every team it faces, but to answer your question.....I think the grinding gameplan will be enough to beat SOME of the potential playoff teams the Bengals might face. As for the others, I have more faith in Palmer than you, right?

I have plenty of faith in Palmer. He's been off the last couple of days, and I know he's working hard to fix it. But the pass protection has been lacking as well. Surely you can at least concede that.

[kingwilly]

You'll never guess who was ranked Number 1 last yr in Pts Allowed and Avg. 21 pts a game. The pittsburgh Steelers. Do you know the 3 highest scoring teams in NFL History?

2007 New England

1998 Minnesota Vikings

1983 Washington Redskins

None won a Superbowl. Let's not forget where the Bengals high flying high octane pass 1st offense got us. NO WHERE. But as proven with Palmers 3 game winning drives he is the difference. This is the right formula guys. It's the only way we can get there. You are not going to win a shoot out with Manning. The passing game has to get crisper, and you know they are capable. We are all still irritated by the Oakland loss, but be ready when they win the next 2. The hype is going to get ridiculous, and San Diego is the one we need.

Amen, brother, amen.

[HairOnFire]

Surely you're not trying to suggest that a running back being out is affecting the way our offensive line blocks and the way our quarterback throws the ball.

No, but it does impact the way opposing defenses attempt to defend. And they were missing more than Benson the last two weeks, weren't they? In addition, I'd say the loss of Evan Mathis has had a far greater impact on this team than the loss of Chris "Decoy Boy" Henry.

Especially considering that we've had a 100 yard rusher in each of the last two games.

Yards are yards, I guess. That said, when judging the Bengals I'd have to see there's a remarkable difference in the version featuring Benson and the one featuring Scott. Less so with Larry Johnson, I admit, but he barely played against the Raiders, right? And that remarkable difference relates to a teams ability to take what it wants as opposed to what it's being given.

However, with games coming up against San Diego and Minnesota, do you think 16 points will be enough?

Probably not. But if the Bengals can run the ball well enough they'll kill the clock like they always do and 16 could very easily get the job done. Or how about 17 or 18? The real point being, if they can make those games into grinding affairs they won't have to score much more than they have been. Because it's not about points, is it? It's about eliminating the mistakes that have been killing drives while exploiting the things you do well offensively. And that's running the football, right?

I doubt some of the better teams coming up are going to give us the run and play two-deep every play like the Browns and Raiders did.

Yeah, but the Raiders and Browns did play two-deep on every play. In fact, despite the Bengals remarkable success running the ball that's the way most teams have gameplanned against the Bengals. So, do you throw under those conditions? No, you do exactly what the Bengals have done. And you keep doing it until the other guy forces you to change.

I have plenty of faith in Palmer. He's been off the last couple of days, and I know he's working hard to fix it. But the pass protection has been lacking as well. Surely you can at least concede that.

Absolutely. But again, they've missed Benson, a guy who was a legit MVP candidate before being dinged. Furthermore, Mathis being out has resulted in a noticable slip in play from Whitworth, more snaps for the less capable Livings at Mathis spot, and way too much of a crumbling Dennis Roland at RT.

[JoePong]

The steelers also won the superbowl because the cardinals couldn't stop them from throwing the ball and couldn't keep roethlisberger from making plays.

There is no set formula to win a superbowl. But one thing cannot be argued. If the bengals score 16 points in a game, they are much more likely to lose than if they score 28 points.