Larry johnson

[derekshank]

Go troll some Chiefs forums right now. They are going insane and talking some serious s**t, and of course they keep bringing up the criminal stuff.

Wouldn't you feel the same way?

What if last year, in the middle of his tank job, Chad finally did enough for Mike Brown to cut him? What if a week later a first place team was going to pick him up? Wouldn't you ultimately feel like he was getting rewarded for his bad behavior? Wouldn't you in some way resent not just the player, but the team that gave him what he wanted?

Or, to make it a bit more close to home... think about how we all felt about Corey Dillon finding success on the Patriots.

I'm not saying the Bengals are making a mistake - but I can definitely identify with a KC fan who is pissed off right now.

Chad didn't do enough to get cut.. He did enough to cause a lightbulb to flicker inside MB's little head.

At the same time, I would be mad if I were a KC fan... But that's the way things go. If you do the things you need to do to be a winner, things like this won't happen.

I find it amazing that you think that anything Chad did has an effect on anything Mikey does.

I think it had a little to do with it.. Yes. Chad may not have much influence, but what he said definitely struck a chord this time around.

Who throws the owner under a bus like that and doesn't get s**t-canned??

So now you're admitting that he threw the owner under the bus?

I remember when this same tired argument happened a few weeks ago, and you denied Chad did anything of the kind. He didn't talk s**t, he just wanted to be traded to a winner remember?

[Ickey44]

Not many people, I agree. But I don't think Mike Brown went into last offseason thinking he had to make moves just because Chad's unhappy.

[agreen_112]

No baby, I said that Chad never trash talked the organization. He never did what Dillon, Spikes, Pickes did. I said that he wanted out because "we" (MB) were not bringing in the players that we need to win. That "we" are not doing what we need to do to win. He wanted a trade because he wanted to WIN. That's it.

He indirectly stated that the owner was a cheap bastard that didn't care about winning and he wanted out.

It's dumb to argue about now but certain people still wanna call Chad a douch bag for what reason is beyond me..

[agreen_112]

Not many people, I agree. But I don't think Mike Brown went into last offseason thinking he had to make moves just because Chad's unhappy.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it DID strike a chord. Becuause that is EXACTLY what MB did. He brought in Tank. He brought in Roy. He brought in Coles. He drafted his ass off and signed every player. He now brings in LJ.

This is a different owner, something we're not used to. This is what "winning" organizations do. The dividends are paying off big time!

I'm saying that looking back, I can now appriciate what Chad did...

Call me what you want but is has to make you wonder.

[NYBengalfan]

No baby, I said that Chad never trash talked the organization. He never did what Dillon, Spikes, Pickes did. I said that he wanted out because "we" (MB) were not bringing in the players that we need to win. That "we" are not doing what we need to do to win. He wanted a trade because he wanted to WIN. That's it.

He indirectly stated that the owner was a cheap bastard that didn't care about winning and he wanted out.

It's dumb to argue about now but certain people still wanna call Chad a douch bag for what reason is beyond me..

Absolutely agree, we are 7-2 and Chad has been having a good year, but buy far not his best, but its an all around team effort. See how his attitude changed once we started winning, hasnt said anything negative this year.

[TJJackson]

I said that Chad never trash talked the organization

and this is in direct contradiction to simple and plain fact.

He did just exactly that, and repeatedly

You were, are, and always will be wrong about this

certain people still wanna call Chad a douch bag for what reason is beyond me..

I don't think you are capable of understanding the 'reason' in question.

It has been covered multiple times, and does not bear repeating here.

[agreen_112]

No baby, I said that Chad never trash talked the organization. He never did what Dillon, Spikes, Pickes did. I said that he wanted out because "we" (MB) were not bringing in the players that we need to win. That "we" are not doing what we need to do to win. He wanted a trade because he wanted to WIN. That's it.

He indirectly stated that the owner was a cheap bastard that didn't care about winning and he wanted out.

It's dumb to argue about now but certain people still wanna call Chad a douch bag for what reason is beyond me..

Absolutely agree, we are 7-2 and Chad has been having a good year, but buy far not his best, but its an all around team effort. See how his attitude changed once we started winning, hasnt said anything negative this year.

Let's just hope we don't lose NYBengal.. s**t may hit the fan lol.

[agreen_112]

I said that Chad never trash talked the organization

and this is in direct contradiction to simple and plain fact.

He did just exactly that, and repeatedly

You were, are, and always will be wrong about this

certain people still wanna call Chad a douch bag for what reason is beyond me..

I don't think you are capable of understanding the 'reason' in question.

It has been covered multiple times, and does not bear repeating here.

Please tell us all TJ what exactly Chad said during his off-season media tour that was trash talking.

[kingwilly]

Not many people, I agree. But I don't think Mike Brown went into last offseason thinking he had to make moves just because Chad's unhappy.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it DID strike a chord. Becuause that is EXACTLY what MB did. He brought in Tank. He brought in Roy. He brought in Coles. He drafted his ass off and signed every player. He now brings in LJ.

This is a different owner, something we're not used to. This is what "winning" organizations do. The dividends are paying off big time!

I'm saying that looking back, I can now appriciate what Chad did...

Call me what you want but is has to make you wonder.

We went round and round on this before.

It is fascinating that you retain some thought that how Chad tanked the year, and generally behaved, somehow "helped" this team. That it somehow got SoP to change his ways, or influenced ML to re-think his approach. The proclamation that you appreciate Chad's antics is inane.

You might as well take personal credit for all of it, as you continue go beyond defending Chad into a realm unlike any other.

Bringing in Larry Johnson is similar to them trying to get Vick. One of the media compared it to buying stock at its lowest. SoP bought the LJ stock at its lowest. It has as much to do with Chad tanking last year as it does the number of McNuggets in Chad's happy meal. Not one iota.

I think your logic is quite a bit like a Deep Thought by Jack Handey:

"I remember that one fateful day when Coach took me aside. I knew what was coming. 'You don't have to tell me,' I said. 'I'm off the team, aren't I?' 'Well,' said Coach 'you never were really ON the team. You made that uniform you're wearing out of rags and towels, and your helmet is a toy space helmet. You show up at practice and then either steal the ball and make us chase you to get it back, or you try to tackle people at inappropriate times.' It was all true what he was saying. And yet, I thought something is brewing inside the head of this Coach. He sees something in me, some kind of raw talent that he can mold. But that's when I felt the handcuffs go on."

G-pizzle, stop running in and stealing the ball on topics, relating everything back to how all this new-found winning is tied to Chad's disgraceful tank job, or his shameless and pitiful whinging about wanting a trade or about how he wants to be somewhere else, all while chalking it up and rationalizing it as OK becuase it is due to Chad's "winning spirit". It is real, real old.

[agreen_112]

KingWilly (Great name by the way lol),

Let me understand (and this is on topic in my opinion).. It's okay to call one of our own a douchbag but it's not okay to stand behind him and give him a little credit when credit is due?

Fair enough. This is Cincy so I get it.

You mention LJ and "buying stock at its lowest."

Good call.

You don't mention Tank, R. Williams, Coles and everyone else who signed this year.

Why not?

If one person feels what I'm saying (NYBenal) then I'm happy with that. I'm sure plenty others would too who don't post. I could care less what QueenWilly, TJerk, Army, Billybadass, or the Instigator thinks. We've all been wrong about one thing at one point here on these boards.

Why did Mikey wait so long to start doing this? We went from being one of the elite teams in '05 to one of the worst teams in just a couple years because Mikey "DID NOT DO WHAT HE NEEDED TO DO TO MAKE THIS A WINNING TEAM." That is exactly what Chad hinted at.

...... TJ disapeers

[HairOnFire]

They need a guy who can carry 20-25 times a game, Scott nor DeDe is that guy, never will be.

For the most part I agree....although the 20-25 carries a game capabilities probably never came up.

They need power. They need a physical presence. They need to keep up the things that have caused a change in attitude and perception. And more than all of this, they need a RB who can work between the tackles...because Bernard Scott can't survive in there.

[kenyon1977]

Any chance that them signing LJ is one more attempt at selling out the rest of their games at home? Maybe just to keep the Bengals in the news being talked about etc etc etc, no publicity is bad publicity,???

[bpepper]

Gotta jump in with Gizzle here. Every bengals fan everywhere has been bitching and complaining - rightfully - about mike brown for years. He has screwed this team up time and again, and he's put us through years of unhappy sundays. So when Chad does it, that's not cool? I only wish more players had spoken up a bit - or perhaps Marvin - and we might have been here sooner. That's just speculation, of course, and I could be totally wrong. Maybe speaking up would have pissed off mikey and made things worse, maybe if marvin had said anything he wouldn't be here having hired zimmer and taking us to 7-2.

But, considering that this whole premise - folks getting paid millions to play a game in bright orange tights - is kind of silly anyway, am I going to lose any sleep over one of our players getting sick of playing on broken, dysfunctional, undermanned, outmatched losing teams? Hell no - I got sick of watching them, and if anyone cared what I thought I'd have been b*ching publicly too. Who knows why things have improved - could just be chance, luck, marvin, and a little bit of who knows what. I doubt chad had anything huge to do with it, but I'm certainly not going to hold a grudge against a guy helping me have a great time watching the Bengals this year just because he shared the same sentiments I did the last couple years and had the good fortune to have people who actually care what he thinks. Why waste time arguing about this? The guy is running ridiculous routes, blocking like he never has before, and contributing to our collective joy on Sundays. Let's roll with it.

[bpepper]

And as for LJ, I just hope they get him up to speed on the playbook fast and get him in for Oakland - there is absolutely no reason to risk aggravating Ced's injury, and leaving him dealing with it all year, against a team like that. Run LJ on the simple stuff, keep B-Scott and Leonard rolling on tougher things with audibles and pass protections, etc., and keep Ced, and Scott, and Leonard for that matter healthy for December...we need all 3, and LJ likely won't be here next here. He's just here to show he can be a team player, rack up some decent film behind an o-line on fire, to get a contract next year. I'm ok with that. I think we're using him more than he's using us. If he runs hard, and I think he will, we're getting what we need.

[agreen_112]

Gotta jump in with Gizzle here. Every bengals fan everywhere has been bitching and complaining - rightfully - about mike brown for years. He has screwed this team up time and again, and he's put us through years of unhappy sundays. So when Chad does it, that's not cool? I only wish more players had spoken up a bit - or perhaps Marvin - and we might have been here sooner. That's just speculation, of course, and I could be totally wrong. Maybe speaking up would have pissed off mikey and made things worse, maybe if marvin had said anything he wouldn't be here having hired zimmer and taking us to 7-2.

But, considering that this whole premise - folks getting paid millions to play a game in bright orange tights - is kind of silly anyway, am I going to lose any sleep over one of our players getting sick of playing on broken, dysfunctional, undermanned, outmatched losing teams? Hell no - I got sick of watching them, and if anyone cared what I thought I'd have been b*ching publicly too. Who knows why things have improved - could just be chance, luck, marvin, and a little bit of who knows what. I doubt chad had anything huge to do with it, but I'm certainly not going to hold a grudge against a guy helping me have a great time watching the Bengals this year just because he shared the same sentiments I did the last couple years and had the good fortune to have people who actually care what he thinks. Why waste time arguing about this? The guy is running ridiculous routes, blocking like he never has before, and contributing to our collective joy on Sundays. Let's roll with it.

Just when I thought Chad's routes were sharper than ever, he comes out against the Pittsburgh Steelers and runs a route that no one has seen before in the NFL. Maybe you guys missed it but it was NASTY. Too bad Palmer missed him by a hair too high..

The Bengals are starting to look like the Yankees of the NFL! This is great.

[TJJackson]

Gotta jump in with Gizzle here.

Hey, you want to group yourself with someone who has proven time an time again to be unable to make a coherent argument, to advocate violence against women, and to propose to settle disputes on this board in person with actual violence, hey, that's your call

Just dont bend over while your back is to him

[Ickey44]

KingWilly (Great name by the way lol),

Let me understand (and this is on topic in my opinion).. It's okay to call one of our own a douchbag but it's not okay to stand behind him and give him a little credit when credit is due?

Fair enough. This is Cincy so I get it.

You mention LJ and "buying stock at its lowest."

Good call.

You don't mention Tank, R. Williams, Coles and everyone else who signed this year.

Why not?

If one person feels what I'm saying (NYBenal) then I'm happy with that. I'm sure plenty others would too who don't post. I could care less what QueenWilly, TJerk, Army, Billybadass, or the Instigator thinks. We've all been wrong about one thing at one point here on these boards.

Why did Mikey wait so long to start doing this? We went from being one of the elite teams in '05 to one of the worst teams in just a couple years because Mikey "DID NOT DO WHAT HE NEEDED TO DO TO MAKE THIS A WINNING TEAM." That is exactly what Chad hinted at.

...... TJ disapeers

I'm going out on a limb here, but I don't know how much Mikey had to do with these signings. Tank and Roy came here because they were familiar with Zimmers schemes and no one else wanted them. Coles probably couldn've signed with another team, but his agent told him this would be the best place for him.

So while Mikey deserves some credit for signing them, they wanted to be here so they took what they were offered. Not complaining, just saying.

[kingwilly]

KingWilly (Great name by the way lol),

Let me understand (and this is on topic in my opinion).. It's okay to call one of our own a douchbag but it's not okay to stand behind him and give him a little credit when credit is due?

Fair enough. This is Cincy so I get it.

You mention LJ and "buying stock at its lowest."

Good call.

You don't mention Tank, R. Williams, Coles and everyone else who signed this year.

Why not?

If one person feels what I'm saying (NYBenal) then I'm happy with that. I'm sure plenty others would too who don't post. I could care less what QueenWilly, TJerk, Army, Billybadass, or the Instigator thinks. We've all been wrong about one thing at one point here on these boards.

Why did Mikey wait so long to start doing this? We went from being one of the elite teams in '05 to one of the worst teams in just a couple years because Mikey "DID NOT DO WHAT HE NEEDED TO DO TO MAKE THIS A WINNING TEAM." That is exactly what Chad hinted at.

...... TJ disapeers

your credit (to Chad) is misapplied.

Chad has nothing to do with signing LJ, or the improvement of the defense. His play, when not tanking, does augment the offense and,when he wants, he is an elite WR in the NFL, though he is less important in the current offensive scheme, as the plan has shifted from an Air-it-out offense, to a ground-and-pound style.

I don't mention the other FA's they've brought in as it is not a thread about them. and the fact that they were brought in was certainly not due to Chad tanking the crap out of last season, or his being an immensely unprofessional malcontent.

When you hear the stories of him getting his head on straight after talking to Ray-Ray and Denzel, do you think they were applauding him, saying "keep it up, the old man will cave soon and start bringing in any and all defensive free agents so you'll be happy and start playing hard again"? Do you believe that?

Tank was brought in because they did not have any DT depth and was a low-cost option. Not because of Chad.

Roy was brought in becuase if he returned to his former self, he'd be a great value. Not because of Chad.

Coles is here because TJ had an out and wanted big ching. Not because of Chad.

They brought in Crocker because Marvin White and Ndukwe were banged up. Dexter was IR. Again, not because of Chad.

Do you think any single one draft pick had anything to do with Chad's antics? Like, "We better draft some GOOD players because, you know, we can't have this happen again with Chad..."

SoP has a history of signing the same kind of guys, drafting the same kind of scrap-heap guys: Garrison Hearst, Richmond Webb, Scott Mitchell, Neil O'Donnell, Michael Westbrook, Gus Ferrotte, Tony William, John Thornton, Tory James, Rogers Beckett, Deltha O'Neal, Daryll Williams, Ashley Ambrose, Jimmy Spencer, Oliver Gibson, Kevin Hardy, Nate Webster, Carl Powell, Duane Clemons, etc, etc, etc. He drafted all kinds of character issue guys that have generally burned him. Nicholson, Brooks, McNeal, Odell, etc. He's drafted all kinds of guys who've busted for one reason or another: Pollack, Perry, Irons, Ki-Jana, Dan Wilkinson, Klingler, etc. etc. etc.

How long have you been following this team? Don't get insulted, maybe that is the issue here. Maybe you just don't know the past.

The one thing I think has been a difference in selecting players is M: is getting more latitude...maybe.

BUT, it does not have anything to do with Chad Johnson. Not one bit.

SoP is the same, year in, year out. Predictable as hell. Scrounging in the trash bin, turning over rocks, looking for gold. He has suddenly had a couple of drafts that are more boon than bust, getting an identity from some of the scrap-heap guys, and it is maximizing the talent we've all known was here.

The success this year has exponentially more to do with Mike Zimmer being here than Chad Johnson, and if you'd like to give credit for the signing of Mike Zimmer to Chad, then you've derailed in your own mind and need professional help to overcome your infatuation with one #85.

None of this is personal. I don't "dislike" you. You make this board way more fun and contribute in a lot of ways but on this topic, your constant tying all currently positive things back to Chad's inexcusable antics is simply nuts.

Look, we both agree that signing LJ is a great, low-risk/high-reward move than is cost-effective and smart on almost every level. We just disagree as to the why. You think all things flow from Chad. I think all tings flow from management, who, after failing for years, is finally getting some luck and reward for their risks.

[BengalByTheBay]

They need a guy who can carry 20-25 times a game, Scott nor DeDe is that guy, never will be.

For the most part I agree....although the 20-25 carries a game capabilities probably never came up.

They need power. They need a physical presence. They need to keep up the things that have caused a change in attitude and perception. And more than all of this, they need a RB who can work between the tackles...because Bernard Scott can't survive in there.

I gotta agree with HOF here, but add one more thought -- they needed a guy who can block without telegraphing the pass. Leonard can block, but never carries from the backfield, so his presence screams pass. Scott is a blocking liability, so his presence telegraphs run. So, if they're gonna rest Ced, they can put LJ back there and the defense has to respect both pass and (unless he totally sucks) run. (As to the prior parenthetical, I completely recognize that LJ may have no game left and the moral majority gets to whine about his character - both potential downsides to the signing. Since it's essentially a stop-gap to get Ced right and save him some carries to get this team to the playoffs, I like it. LJ goes bye bye in 4 or 5 weeks is my guess.)

[kingwilly]

Just when I thought Chad's routes were sharper than ever, he comes out against the Pittsburgh Steelers and runs a route that no one has seen before in the NFL. Maybe you guys missed it but it was NASTY. Too bad Palmer missed him by a hair too high..

The Bengals are starting to look like the Yankees of the NFL! This is great.

I saw the route and heard the comment. I agree, it was ridiculous. It is too bad Palmer missed him. They keep working on that one and it will ruin some CB's.

See, not every comment I make towards you is an attack.

Simmer.

[bpepper]

Gotta jump in with Gizzle here.

Hey, you want to group yourself with someone who has proven time an time again to be unable to make a coherent argument, to advocate violence against women, and to propose to settle disputes on this board in person with actual violence, hey, that's your call

Just dont bend over while your back is to him

Goodness - I'll stay out of whatever you two have going. Haven't been here long enough to appreciate anyone's apparent shortcomings. Just noting that I'm cool with anyone, really, barking at SoP - and I like chad...because I like dependable, motivated receivers who get open consistently, take pressure off the running game, and catch the damn ball when it's thrown anywhere near them.

In any case, I did say "here."

[Ickey44]

They need a guy who can carry 20-25 times a game, Scott nor DeDe is that guy, never will be.

For the most part I agree....although the 20-25 carries a game capabilities probably never came up.

They need power. They need a physical presence. They need to keep up the things that have caused a change in attitude and perception. And more than all of this, they need a RB who can work between the tackles...because Bernard Scott can't survive in there.

I gotta agree with HOF here, but add one more thought -- they needed a guy who can block without telegraphing the pass. Leonard can block, but never carries from the backfield, so his presence screams pass. Scott is a blocking liability, so his presence telegraphs run. So, if they're gonna rest Ced, they can put LJ back there and the defense has to respect both pass and (unless he totally sucks) run. (As to the prior parenthetical, I completely recognize that LJ may have no game left and the moral majority gets to whine about his character - both potential downsides to the signing. Since it's essentially a stop-gap to get Ced right and save him some carries to get this team to the playoffs, I like it. LJ goes bye bye in 4 or 5 weeks is my guess.)

Idk, I saw Scott pick up a couple of blitzes in that last drive and I was impressed. I don't know that he's a liability blocking at all. In fact, the only thin that concerns me about him is his durability. He's been banged up twice this year already.

[TJJackson]

I like chad...because I like dependable, motivated receivers who get open consistently, take pressure off the running game, and catch the damn ball when it's thrown anywhere near them.

He is none of these things

So why again do you like him?

and were you born just this year, ie did you miss 2008 entirely?

[agreen_112]

I like chad...because I like dependable, motivated receivers who get open consistently, take pressure off the running game, and catch the damn ball when it's thrown anywhere near them.

He is none of these things

So why again do you like him?

and were you born just this year, ie did you miss 2008 entirely?

He's everyone of those things.. Do you like to talk about the Bengals or do you just like to stir up s**t TJ?

I asked you a straight forward question and you deliberately ignore it because you know you're wrong..

I'm starting to question your true motivation for posting on these boards. Is it the Bengals or because you don't have a life?

[BengalByTheBay]

They need a guy who can carry 20-25 times a game, Scott nor DeDe is that guy, never will be.

For the most part I agree....although the 20-25 carries a game capabilities probably never came up.

They need power. They need a physical presence. They need to keep up the things that have caused a change in attitude and perception. And more than all of this, they need a RB who can work between the tackles...because Bernard Scott can't survive in there.

I gotta agree with HOF here, but add one more thought -- they needed a guy who can block without telegraphing the pass. Leonard can block, but never carries from the backfield, so his presence screams pass. Scott is a blocking liability, so his presence telegraphs run. So, if they're gonna rest Ced, they can put LJ back there and the defense has to respect both pass and (unless he totally sucks) run. (As to the prior parenthetical, I completely recognize that LJ may have no game left and the moral majority gets to whine about his character - both potential downsides to the signing. Since it's essentially a stop-gap to get Ced right and save him some carries to get this team to the playoffs, I like it. LJ goes bye bye in 4 or 5 weeks is my guess.)

Idk, I saw Scott pick up a couple of blitzes in that last drive and I was impressed. I don't know that he's a liability blocking at all. In fact, the only thin that concerns me about him is his durability. He's been banged up twice this year already.

Agree to disagree, then, as I recall seeing him get shed pretty easily.