Draft Conversation

[BengalPimp]

I am usually the guy who says "stay in school" but I think Sam Bradford made a bad decision, and in the process, cost himself millions by returning to Oklahoma. He definately would have been a 1st Rd pick, and there were many predicting that he would have been drafted ahead of Sanchez or Stafford.

So he returns to school, gets hurt, and watches a FRESHMAN QB (Landry Jones) throw 6 TD's in a game, breaking the school record, and so far Landry has a passer rating of 159.5 with 9TD's, 3Ints, 673 yds and is completing 60.5% of his passes in a little over 2 games.

Do you honestly believe there arent a whole bunch of scouts now thinking "If a freshman can step right in and put up those kind of numbers, maybe Bradford is just a product of the system"

All I know is, he better put up some damn good stats when he comes back, and have a great combine.........

[ArmyBengal]

I would bet a large amount of money that if Bradford comes back in the next couple of weeks (he should) and continue to do what he has to this point in time (he should) he will still be a top 10, if not 5 pick. I doubt the scouts will put much into anything else outside of remembering to come back and check out the freshman a year from now.

It's a fair point though and will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

[SupaBran]

Bradford is terrible and clearly a product of the system! I would take Colt McCoy and Tim Tebow ahead of Sam Bradford! Shouldn't this be in the Draft forum?

[ArmyBengal]

I think, and have for some time, that McCoy would be the QB I would want to draft if we were going in that direction. He's also a great leader on that team and yes, I would take him before Bradford. I'm not a fan of Tebow, but can't really explain it, I simply don't like him. Bradford however, will still be a top 5 (top 10 minimum) pick in the upcoming draft unless you get what you see every now and then where the teams picking early simply don't have a need. Then all kinds of crazy stuff starts happening. I love the draft !!!

[SupaBran]

I'll ignore your comments about Tebow, how could anyone not love him? Lol. What's your Top5? It obviously depends on the teams and their needs but just for fun...

Not in order:

1. Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma State- O'Lineman are always hot commodities

2. Dez Bryant, WR, Oklahoma State- Beast, reminds me of Andre Johnson.

3. Taylor Mays, S, USC- Athletic freak, I only put him in the Top5 b/c the Raiders will draft him.

4. Tim Tebow, QB, Florida- I love him, but this is an unbiased opinion, I think the Jaguars are terrible and will draft Tebow b/c they have a history of drafting Gators and drafting Tebow would ignite excitement into the fanbase.

5. Eric Berry, S, Tennessee- Reminds me of Ed Reed. I think he's better than Taylor Mays.

[ArmyBengal]

As much as I love the draft and this kind of talk, I think it's kind of difficult at this point to try to figure out who the top 5 will be. So much rides on which team is there, what their needs are going to be come draft time, and how things turn out for the players considered. That being said, here's 5 that I think "could" be there, but there are more that may or may not shoot up the boards.

Taylor Mays

Eric Berry

Gerald McCoy the DT out of Oklahoma

Sam Bradford more because of who I think will be picking in the top 5 and their wants

Trent Williams the OT out of Oklahoma because OT's are typically looked upon as the safer pick to spend that kind of money on

Like I said, there are others, but just what I see right now.

[DesperateDerelict]

Actually, outside of a handful of D-Linemen, a couple of safeties, and a couple of receivers, 2010 may be the weakest class in the last several years.

- No elite 'franchise' RB's

- System QB's more suited to wildcat then NFL pockets (Clausen? Snead? - yuck)

- Sparse OL - all the best LT's seem either light or slow

- WR - Benn & Bryant and you're into round 3

- DL - good tackles, ok DE;s

- Rush LBs and thats all

- no CB's, mays & berry at S

not a good year to be loaded up with top picks

[ArmyBengal]

DD, I agree in that there doesn't appear to be much "at this point in time", but that may change a little as the season progresses.

My bigger concern in your line of thought for the Bengals is, if they do in fact finish around the 8-8 mark, I think that puts them in an odd position fo which player will be available at that spot. Many of the impact players (right now) will probably be gone by their spot. This will be one of those times where they strictly take best player available. It just looks odd when looking the projections right now.

The other thing to consider is the underclassmen that will be sure to declare early in the attempts to cash in before the bargaining agreement is retooled.

I've seen mocks (yeah I know it's stupid early) with the thought of us taking Spiller the RB out of Clemson in the 1st.

Let me just say no...

[BengalPimp]

I also agree that right now, this looks to be a realtively weak draft. The QB's are unpredictable, and will be even more so in the years to come, with more teams changing to spread offenses. Fewer teams are running pro-style offenses. Somebody who may not be as great of a college QB (maybe like Clausen) will probably get drafted ahead of stars like Bradford,McCoy,or Tebow. Tebow will probably go down as one of the better college QB's of all-time, but I really dont know how his game will translate to NFL success.

One thing is for sure....Anybody looking for a standout Safety, will have 2 great options in Taylor Mays (Absolute freak of nature for the position LB-size CB-speed)or Eric Berry.

A lot of overhyped Tackles so far, but like Army said, it really depends on who's picking where, and their "needs" are.

[Pidge]

I dunno, Bradford is OK I think.

Tebow, as an NFL QB is a horrible prospect. His scream fests got tired long ago anyway. *insert random varsity blues quotes here LOUD NOISES* He should be about a 4th or a 5th rounder if he whines about wanting to be a QB in the NFL. That's where backup quality QBs should go.

Then again, VY went what, #3 overall and Jamarcus Russel #1. Who says GMs and scouts know what they're doing?

I agree with AB here, I'd take McCoy over Bradford or Snead. I'd rather take Pike who will likely go an entire round later than the QBs from the big name schools and is actually the best QB out of the whole bunch. Failing Pike, Clausen would do.

The direction I'd go is try to snag Berry/Mays, very rare that 2 safeties go in the top 20 (2006 when both safeties taken went a round too early aside), even if they're both great, in the 1st and take Pike in the second and end up with a great safety to complete our D and the QB for the future.

[SupaBran]

I dunno, Bradford is OK I think.

Tebow, as an NFL QB is a horrible prospect. His scream fests got tired long ago anyway. *insert random varsity blues quotes here LOUD NOISES* He should be about a 4th or a 5th rounder if he whines about wanting to be a QB in the NFL. That's where backup quality QBs should go.

Then again, VY went what, #3 overall and Jamarcus Russel #1. Who says GMs and scouts know what they're doing?

I agree with AB here, I'd take McCoy over Bradford or Snead. I'd rather take Pike who will likely go an entire round later than the QBs from the big name schools and is actually the best QB out of the whole bunch. Failing Pike, Clausen would do.

The direction I'd go is try to snag Berry/Mays, very rare that 2 safeties go in the top 20 (2006 when both safeties taken went a round too early aside), even if they're both great, in the 1st and take Pike in the second and end up with a great safety to complete our D and the QB for the future.

That's fricken retarded!!! But what else can I expect from a Hurricane fan...

[redsbengalsbucks]

I dunno, Bradford is OK I think.

Tebow, as an NFL QB is a horrible prospect. His scream fests got tired long ago anyway. *insert random varsity blues quotes here LOUD NOISES* He should be about a 4th or a 5th rounder if he whines about wanting to be a QB in the NFL. That's where backup quality QBs should go.

Then again, VY went what, #3 overall and Jamarcus Russel #1. Who says GMs and scouts know what they're doing?

I agree with AB here, I'd take McCoy over Bradford or Snead. I'd rather take Pike who will likely go an entire round later than the QBs from the big name schools and is actually the best QB out of the whole bunch. Failing Pike, Clausen would do.

The direction I'd go is try to snag Berry/Mays, very rare that 2 safeties go in the top 20 (2006 when both safeties taken went a round too early aside), even if they're both great, in the 1st and take Pike in the second and end up with a great safety to complete our D and the QB for the future.

I have to agree even though you are a Canes fan. Yesterday went 2/3 good FSU and Miami lost but Florida won. At least maybe the media will get off of Tebow's nut sack about him being invincable since Kentucky sent him to the hospital.

[ArmyBengal]

I honestly want one of the two safeties, but don't think we will be in position to pick either of them. Even a 6-10 record (like some think) will put us out of position from the initial standpoint of where those players should go, but every year someone slips due to the needs of the teams drafting in front of us, so you never know. After that, it depends on who's left, but I see either one of the OT's that don't do much for me at this point or one of the DT's, which is a risky pick in the first. There are some HUGE DT's in this draft though and it has been a consideration of this team for the past few years, so maybe this year is the year they finally take a DT in the first.

Yeah, Tebow got POPPED last night...

[Pidge]

That's fricken retarded!!! But what else can I expect from a Hurricane fan...

Hey, I don't dislike Tebow as a person or because he plays for Florida. He seems like a genuine enough guy. The media saturation at this point is beyond boring though.

As far as QB play goes - I'm sorry but there's no bias from me here, even if I am a Suntan U alumn. He just isn't a very good one. Not a bad QB and at the college level a fantastic weapon. At the NFL level though, you honestly see him starting and having success? Cuz far better QBs fail year on year in the NFL. Why would a player with very dodgy mechanics, very little ability to read a defense and not top end speed do any better against NFL defenses?

That's a genuine question, and no a super duper will to win is not a valid reason.

[Pidge]

I have to agree even though you are a Canes fan. Yesterday went 2/3 good FSU and Miami lost but Florida won. At least maybe the media will get off of Tebow's nut sack about him being invincable since Kentucky sent him to the hospital.

That was a horrible collision though. Right on the back of the head with no warning. Hopefully it's just a mild concussion. At this point, is there anyone outside of Florida, Texas or Alabama in the running for the NC? If the Bearcats run the table they should be a shoe in for a spot in the title game but yeah, that's not going to happen because, well, they're the Bearcats. Florida-Texas it is.

The rest are just fighting it out to be the least worse at this point it seems.

ps. Very well done to the Bulls. I'm just waiting for the loss to UCF the Canes will take later this yr. FSU and the Canes are in danger of a cripple fight future of just playing to avoid being the fifth best team in FLA if they don't get their s**t together.

[ArmyBengal]

And that has been the question all along with Tebow, how does he project to the NFL ??

Agree that it takes much more to succeed at that level and we have seen MANY dominant college players fail to make any impact at all.

The thing with Tebow is he will be facing opponents week in and week out in the NFL that simply won't be as easy to do the things he does at Florida.

It's not busting his balls either, it's simply what you see every year and the league is littered with those guys.

[Pidge]

I honestly want one of the two safeties, but don't think we will be in position to pick either of them. Even a 6-10 record (like some think) will put us out of position from the initial standpoint of where those players should go, but every year someone slips due to the needs of the teams drafting in front of us, so you never know. After that, it depends on who's left, but I see either one of the OT's that don't do much for me at this point or one of the DT's, which is a risky pick in the first. There are some HUGE DT's in this draft though and it has been a consideration of this team for the past few years, so maybe this year is the year they finally take a DT in the first.

Yeah, Tebow got POPPED last night...

You might be right, I'm still holding out that one of them falls to us. Ed Reed went 24th. Although, Laron Landry went 6th a couple of yrs back. The trend is to take good safeties ridiculously high recently so maybe we don't get lucky when you have two fantastic prospects sitting there.

Any

[Pidge]

And that has been the question all along with Tebow, how does he project to the NFL ??

Agree that it takes much more to succeed at that level and we have seen MANY dominant college players fail to make any impact at all.

The thing with Tebow is he will be facing opponents week in and week out in the NFL that simply won't be as easy to do the things he does at Florida.

It's not busting his balls either, it's simply what you see every year and the league is littered with those guys.

Indeed you do. Not just players like Tebow fail either. Very good pocket passers at the college level fail each and every yr to make the step up as well so it makes the prospect of Tebow overcoming all that highly unlikely. Certainly not impossible but colour me sceptical. If he converts to a receiver or something then I can see Tebow going a little higher but as an NFL QB. Wow, big leap of faith if he's taken anywhere higher than the 3rd/4th.

Then again, money talks and some teams, hell even the Bengals have done so in the past, take an unbelievable gambles most yrs. VY at #3 and Russell at #1 are just two of the most recent examples.

[SupaBran]

First, WHO-DEY!!! f**k THE SQUEELERS!!!

Hmm...sorry bout that...

I was just kidding Pidge, I am a life long Gator but I respect your opinion. I love Tebow, he is a God in pads but you're right, the NFL is a different beast and I can understand people saying there are better pro prospects but I don't count Timmy outta anything. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Jags take him early, they are terrible and need to get their fans excited, so what better than a local kid to bring the locals out?

BTW, any dips**t that is happy that Tebow got hurt or about someone besides a Squeeler getting hurt is the biggest douche on the planet!!!

I thought he was paralyzed! Very scary moment...I'm prayin for ya Timmy!!!

P.S. I do agree about your draft choices, my Bengal optimism is saying our pick will be 32, but I honestly see something at the earliest in the 20's...That being said, maybe if one of the safeties falls to us then yeah scoop em up, but I love Crocker and Roy. I agree this is the year the Bengals finally take the DT. We need to draft someone to replace Tank next year and play next to Peko with Pat Sims coming off the bench for years...imagine that rotation!!!

[Pidge]

First, WHO-DEY!!! f**k THE SQUEELERS!!!

Hmm...sorry bout that...

I was just kidding Pidge, I am a life long Gator but I respect your opinion. I love Tebow, he is a God in pads but you're right, the NFL is a different beast and I can understand people saying there are better pro prospects but I don't count Timmy outta anything. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Jags take him early, they are terrible and need to get their fans excited, so what better than a local kid to bring the locals out?

BTW, any dips**t that is happy that Tebow got hurt or about someone besides a Squeeler getting hurt is the biggest douche on the planet!!!

I thought he was paralyzed! Very scary moment...I'm prayin for ya Timmy!!!

P.S. I do agree about your draft choices, my Bengal optimism is saying our pick will be 32, but I honestly see something at the earliest in the 20's...That being said, maybe if one of the safeties falls to us then yeah scoop em up, but I love Crocker and Roy. I agree this is the year the Bengals finally take the DT. We need to draft someone to replace Tank next year and play next to Peko with Pat Sims coming off the bench for years...imagine that rotation!!!

On your first point - PREACH!

I could see Jacksonville taking him in the top 2 rnds. Things are ugly there right now and they have to do something. Tebow might very well have a VY-esque first season in the NFL and actually improve instead of following Vince into oblivion. The guy obviously works his tail off and that's a large part of success in the NFL. I'm still sceptical though. Any update on his condition btw. Last I heard it was a concussion but he'll be fine, which is great to hear having watched it. Horrible head snap, you see people come out with much worse from lesser collisions.

As for the draft, I agree. If one of Mays/Berry is there when we pick - about twenty to mid twenties I think, wildcard here we come baby - take em. All day and every day. If not then either the best DT or OT. I rully rully srsly like the look of Pike though. I don't think he'll last until the 2nd/3rd rnd though. I could be totally wrong but he should be the 4th QB taken, at the very least, I'd say he and McCoy are the top two with Bradford just behind but anyways.

Also, thanks for the good natured banter, which is how I interpreted it. I got bored of the serious attitude some Canes, Seminoles and Gators showed to each other's programs about 5 minutes after enrolling at UM. Maybe it's because quite a few students at all 3 unis are from elsewhere in the country and certainly in UM's case from furren countires. They overcompensate in order to feel a part of things or something. We have our 5 champs for right now anyway and every dog has their day. This is Florida's right now and it might not be the state of Miami any longer but it's still the state of Florida dammit! So hurry up and win your 4th already, it's lonely sitting at the top.

[ArmyBengal]

The thing with Tebow is how much work he does out of the shotgun in the Gators offense that will make scouts and teams concerned about what he can do when he is under center, like he surely will be in the NFL. He and the scouts will have pro days and the combine to figure some of that out as well. I think Jacksonville needs to do something and Tebow would probably help and it wouldn't suprise me to see them make a move to get him.

As for us, both DT and Safety will need to be addressed in one way or another as both Roy and Tank signed one year deals to come here. So they either have to sign them to an extension, draft the position, or maybe even both. I can't say as I would mind drafting for depth at either of those two defensive positions and there are people that could be shown the door if we decided to do that. There's still plenty of time to determine that though.

Safety, OT, or DT in the first is my call right now, barring injury or something of that nature.

[Pidge]

I wouldn't mind re-signing them both if they keep up their play of course. Who knows, maybe only on of them signs. That might colour the route we take in FA and the draft. O-line is always welcome. The most important part of any team.

[SupaBran]

I could see Jacksonville taking him in the top 2 rnds. Things are ugly there right now and they have to do something. Tebow might very well have a VY-esque first season in the NFL and actually improve instead of following Vince into oblivion. The guy obviously works his tail off and that's a large part of success in the NFL. I'm still sceptical though. Any update on his condition btw. Last I heard it was a concussion but he'll be fine, which is great to hear having watched it. Horrible head snap, you see people come out with much worse from lesser collisions.

As for the draft, I agree. If one of Mays/Berry is there when we pick - about twenty to mid twenties I think, wildcard here we come baby - take em. All day and every day. If not then either the best DT or OT. I rully rully srsly like the look of Pike though. I don't think he'll last until the 2nd/3rd rnd though. I could be totally wrong but he should be the 4th QB taken, at the very least, I'd say he and McCoy are the top two with Bradford just behind but anyways.

Also, thanks for the good natured banter, which is how I interpreted it. I got bored of the serious attitude some Canes, Seminoles and Gators showed to each other's programs about 5 minutes after enrolling at UM. Maybe it's because quite a few students at all 3 unis are from elsewhere in the country and certainly in UM's case from furren countires. They overcompensate in order to feel a part of things or something. We have our 5 champs for right now anyway and every dog has their day. This is Florida's right now and it might not be the state of Miami any longer but it's still the state of Florida dammit! So hurry up and win your 4th already, it's lonely sitting at the top.

First off, Tebow should be fine. They said that with concussions you just have to wait to see how long it takes to recover but knowing Tebow he'll be ready in 2 weeks to play in Baton Rouge, he's Superman!!! You're right though Pidge, I've seen worst injuries with less collision, that's why I was so scared he was seriously injured, but I will keep you informed if I here something new!!!

Secondly, I don't know if you're just praising Pike or considering him? There's no way I draft a QB for the future yet! I do agree with you about the safety thing though if Mays/Berry are there then I take without question. They could be there, if you remember Kenny Phillips went to the Giants in last years draft, I think they had 28 or 29, so they could be there but I do agree that the league loves safeties now!!!

Lol, nice banter yourself! Its our time right now, but the U is def. back thanks to Jacory Harris. That dude is awesome, I think he's the best true QB in the country and when he comes out, if there that's the guy I want the Bengals to draft for the future!

I don't get how people can slight Tebow for playing in the spread offense, but then say that the Top QB for the draft are Colt McCoy and Sam Bradford who are system QB's as well, I don't get it!

[Pidge]

First off, Tebow should be fine. They said that with concussions you just have to wait to see how long it takes to recover but knowing Tebow he'll be ready in 2 weeks to play in Baton Rouge, he's Superman!!! You're right though Pidge, I've seen worst injuries with less collision, that's why I was so scared he was seriously injured, but I will keep you informed if I here something new!!!

Secondly, I don't know if you're just praising Pike or considering him? There's no way I draft a QB for the future yet! I do agree with you about the safety thing though if Mays/Berry are there then I take without question. They could be there, if you remember Kenny Phillips went to the Giants in last years draft, I think they had 28 or 29, so they could be there but I do agree that the league loves safeties now!!!

Lol, nice banter yourself! Its our time right now, but the U is def. back thanks to Jacory Harris. That dude is awesome, I think he's the best true QB in the country and when he comes out, if there that's the guy I want the Bengals to draft for the future!

I don't get how people can slight Tebow for playing in the spread offense, but then say that the Top QB for the draft are Colt McCoy and Sam Bradford who are system QB's as well, I don't get it!

Good to hear. Silver lining, if any can be found, is that you guys have a week off soon I think.

I am definitely praising Pike. I think we need to start thinking about the future before it arrives. Pike would be my choice but right now, bit hard to justify what would be at least a probable 2nd round pick on a QB who won't hopefully be seriously considered until 4 or 5 yrs from now. That's if Carson follows the usual pattern of 30+ QBs in becoming more nicked up. If they see one they like the look of in the late rounds in the next couple of yrs though, and not just a throwaway pick like Rowe was, then snag him and see if he improves over the yrs as well as providing depth in the meantime. O'Sullivan is gone after this yr most likely and baby Palmer doesn't inspire me as a backup. This is all premature of course. Luckily Carson hasn't, and please mocker Gods don't take this as a double dare, had a serious shoulder injury so he should just be hitting his peak over the next 5 yrs.

RE: safeties - absolutely. A good one changes the entire face of a D, even an already good unit. I'm so sorry to hear what Kenny Phillips is going through and hope the arthritis claims have been greatly exaggerated - he was bright spot in a few extremely lean yrs all over down in Coral gables. And yes, he went 32 overall I think in a yr when the safety class wasn't exactly deep. Hopefully that means one of the two mentioned, even as awesome as they are, can find their way to us. Hell, we got Rey in the 2nd rnd.

Jacory - I wub him. The last good QB we had was Dorsey, yeah Ken Dorsey, FFS. Been lean times at QB U these past few yrs. The kid has astonishing touch and a strong enough arm, even though it literally does look like a noodle. I can't stand the comparisons I've been hearing lately. Dennis Dixon for crying out loud. Jamarcus Russell. Well, they're all black I guess but there the similarities end. Pure pocket passer. He's still young and the rain really affected the whole team but his mentality and ability to read defenses, albeit woeful FSU and GT secondaries, is encouraging. Ice cool. A yr too early but I'm looking forward to seeing this team a yr older next season.

McCoy and Bradford have better fundamental mechanics maybe? Snead - not impressed. You're right though, most QBs, even natural ones with good fundamentals, are products of a system. The college game is so different to the pros. Must be a nightmare to truly evaluate them. They say QB is a crapshoot. I'm not actually convinced by this QB class at all. A lot of decent prospects but no real stand out candidates I think. Given a choice, I take Pike above all of them. Clausen after that.

Hiller might be a nice sleeper to be had later on. Good long term prospect for some team.

[SupaBran]

There is no comparison with Jacory with either Dennis Dickson and JaMarcus Russell! Like you said, pure pocket passer. I actually get mad wondering why he doesn't use his athleticism more a run a little bit.

I agree Pike and Clausen are the cream of the crop this year...easily too!

I haven't heard much about Kenny Phillips other than he's out for year after that huge 2 Int. day vs. the Cowgirls.

We'll have to see later in year what position will be best to draft, but I'm gonna throw this out there and you tell me what you think. With the 20 sumthin pick in the 2010 draft, the Cincinnati Bengals select...

Jermaine Gresham, Tight End, out of Oklahoma