GapControl Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/203314-...s-at-georgetownCan't agree with trying another DE to LB switch....Seems Marvin is still thinking find another Adelius Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Too much depth at LB right now. Then you really get to asking where the hell Rey is going to play - and I think you want him out there.Really, we're to a unique ptroblem in Bengals defenses: depth, and how to get all the good players on the field. Cynically, as a Bengals fan, I expect injuries to solve some of these problems for us. But beyond that, they need to find creative defensive schemes to get the best players on the field. They also have the ability to tell guys that they're platooning, that they may only play 20 or so plays a game, and that they can afford to go all-out on each play. Imagine a defense that's fresh in the 4th and knocking guys' heads off. This is a fantastic thing.So really, it's less about the starters, and more about realizing that we have 3 starter-quality players for 2 positions in a number of cases. How cool is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 The article doesn't really say they are switching him there definitively and from what I've read neither are the Bengals. I do however think they will find a way to get him on the field in certain packages and I am looking forward to it. I think the battle between Jeanty and Maualuga should be a good one, but also think they will find a way to get Rey on the field. This doesn't bother me as much as it would have in the past and the reason (as already mentioned) is because we finally have some depth on our defense. Color me happy !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 I could definitely see a package where we flow to a 3/4 with Michael Johnson, Rey, Dhani, and Keith Rivers as our 4 backers and Odom/Tank, Sims, Peko and our three downlinemen.This defense is the deepest Bengals defense I can ever remember and the most capable of using multiple fronts to confuse the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whizzo Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 gah. why the position switch (even if it's not permanent)? we run a 4-3, converting a DE to LB makes no sense. sure we could run multiple fronts, but still. leave the guy where he performed admirably in college, instead of trying to force into a new position within a few weeks.also, it seems kinda stupid to draft two guys in rounds 2 and 3 to both play Sam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Too much depth at LB right now.Hence why I don't mind them doing it,They have Jeanty & Maualuga fighting for the spot this year but next year orthe year aftermaybe he'll make the switch...Untill then he can earn his spot by just passer the rusher.gah. why the position switch (even if it's not permanent)? we run a 4-3, converting a DE to LB makes no sense. sure we could run multiple fronts, but still. leave the guy where he performed admirably in college, instead of trying to force into a new position within a few weeks.Theres this thing call Preassure that great defenses can create....Marvin wants his Suggs,Thomas or Boulware type LB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Keep in mind this is Dhani's last year on his contract and Jeanty only signed a one year extension as well. Rey WILL move back to the middle when Dhani is gone and I have NO issue with Rey learning from him for the season. Jeanty may or may not be back. If he is, it only further provides depth and allows the defense to take on different looks. M. Johnson seems to be the athletic freak that can handle a back and forth switch of this nature. It will work itself out over the course of the season and you know d*mn well injuries are going to come into play at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 The more I think about it, who gives a sh*t who starts? Tell guys not to worry about who the starter is. Hell, to an extent, tell 'em not to worry about what *position* they play. Just get talent on the field and tell them to hit somebody, hard. If they need to put 4 LBs to get the best players on the field, so be it. Same for 3 safeties - how's that for a nickel? Zimmer's got the guys to run some really weird schemes if he wants to - and I hope he does.Strangely, I'm very optimistic about this year. Maybe I'll go get a chainsaw so I can get DirecTV reception again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlainThePain Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 To build the defense Marvin had in Baltimore, you have to have that Boulware type DE/OLB hybrid because his scheme is built around that position, so I have no problem with them trying to find that player. I just don't think Michael Johnson is that player. I don't have a problem with them giving him a few snaps at OLB, I just don't want to see him switched there permanently. Johnson should be a rotational pass rusher on the line of scrimmage.I think a lot of Bengals fans are down on the idea of switching a DE to OLB because of Pollack, but I don't think its a good excuse to hate moves like this. I truly believe that Pollack would have been a beast for us if it hadn't been for the accident, and you can't blame that accident on the position change. Pollack put his head down when he made the hit that broke his neck, and football players are taught to keep their heads up when they make hits from peewee on up. It was just a stupid mistake on Pollack's part.Bottom line, if you want a defense like the one that carried the Ravens to a Superbowl win, you will support moves like this.P.S. George Selvie (a DE in next years draft class) is the perfect fit to fill that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 What I found really interesting is not only are they giving the guy time at Linebacker & weakside at that but their also keeping him in at tackle...would be scary to have guy the offense didn't know where he was going attack from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whizzo Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Theres this thing call Preassure that great defenses can create....Marvin wants his Suggs,Thomas or Boulware type LB.those are/were all 3-4 outside OLBs. and in a 3-4, sure, the OLBS are responsible for creating pressure and getting to the QB. in the 4-3 that we run, that's the job of the DEs... which is michael johnson's natural position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 The more I think about it, who gives a sh*t who starts? Tell guys not to worry about who the starter is. Hell, to an extent, tell 'em not to worry about what *position* they play. Just get talent on the field and tell them to hit somebody, hard. If they need to put 4 LBs to get the best players on the field, so be it. Same for 3 safeties - how's that for a nickel? Zimmer's got the guys to run some really weird schemes if he wants to - and I hope he does.That's my thing right there. Give this defense the opportunity to change things up and show things that can further confuse the opposing offense. I like the direction Zimmer is taking this defense in and have complete faith. It's why the move of Johnson doesn't bother me as much as had it happened in the past with a different D-coordinator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 It's why the move of Johnson doesn't bother me as much as had it happened in the past with a different D-coordinator.That's a very good point. Chucky's schemes were all vanilla, requiring a heavy emphasis on reads. Which, as we all witnessed, is because they were constantly in react mode instead of act mode. So they had to read the offense perfectly and hope they got there in time, which was tough for anybody and pretty much required specialization by position. You're right - if you use an aggressive defense, you don't have to read as much, so you can move guys around much more. Cool.I've always preferred to see a defense put pressure on the offense to read and react. Looking at it cynically, worst-case scenario - even if you make mistakes, you still get off the field faster. No more of those 10 minute, 90 yard TD drives that wear out and demoralize the defense. Best case scenario, the offense is constantly confused and makes mistakes, which can hide a lot of holes in your coverage.I'm with you on the Zimmer hire, was from day 1. Like his schemes, like his ability to teach fundamentals like tackling, love his attitude. Now, if only it weren't still June. I want to see these guys HIT somebody! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 This is BY FAR the most excited I have been about a Bengals defense in MANY years. Billy, you with me on this ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Theres this thing call Preassure that great defenses can create....Marvin wants his Suggs,Thomas or Boulware type LB.those are/were all 3-4 outside OLBs. and in a 3-4, sure, the OLBS are responsible for creating pressure and getting to the QB. in the 4-3 that we run, that's the job of the DEs... which is michael johnson's natural position.Peter Boulware was a 4-3 Linebacker because Marvin ran a ......4-3 and well Suggs & Thomas may be 3-4 LB's they were also Ends who made the switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whizzo Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 ok then, disregard boulware. my point is that i don't see any issue with moving a 4-3 DE to a 3-4 OLB, because they have similar jobs (pressure on the pocket). but moving a 4-3 DE to a 4-3 OLB doesn't make sense to me, since those are two different positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 ok then, disregard boulware. my point is that i don't see any issue with moving a 4-3 DE to a 3-4 OLB, because they have similar jobs (pressure on the pocket). but moving a 4-3 DE to a 4-3 OLB doesn't make sense to me, since those are two different positions.Once again Peter Boulware was a College Defensive end who switch to 4-3 Linebackers so i'm failing to see the reasoning? The point is to create a player who can help attack the quarterback out of the position....Rashad Jeanty was a Defensive end who had to switch to Linebacker the only downside is he fails at the passrush part... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whizzo Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 yes but michael johnson can attack the QB just fine from the DE position... why move him to a position where he presumably won't do as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 This is also from Hobson's new piece and speaks volumes about not only Michael Johnson, but Maualuga as well.I think it's about finding ANY way they can get Johnson on the field and get him some snaps while learning the system.The Bengals defense, although vastly improved, hasn't had a playmaker since David Fulcher and these are two kids that actually look like they are difference-makers. They haven't had a big linebacker that Dave Lapham says "rattles skeletons" like Maualuga since Jim LeClair three decades ago and they've never had a guy like Michael Johnson. Granted, he may end up being more Ben Johnson instead of Magic Johnson, or somewhere in between but they've never had a guy like that with his size and athleticism and not to use him would be a farce.But I don't think they're talking about force feeding them.Dhani Jones is going to stay in the middle for stability and it's not a given that Maualuga is going to start ahead of Rashad Jeanty at SAM. There would have been some teams that said Maualuga is clearly a better and younger middle backer so, "Bang, put him in the middle and let's go,' but the Bengals are choosing to ease him in there plus taking away the pressure of what the middle backer has to do mentally before the snap.And Johnson isn't going to start out as an every-down player. They had him working at three different positions and the plan looks to line him up on third down in a variety of spots to take advantage of his uniqueness to block. Starting out giving him 10 to 15 snaps a game sounds pretty reasonable for a top of the third-round pick.Timmons didn't have one of the Steelers' 36 sacks in '07. The problem is, the Bengals have had 34 sacks the last two seasons. No, they don't have the luxury of sitting Johnson.Then he had this to say about the defense, the 3-4 looks, and getting Rey and Dhani on the field at the same time:They will be on the field at the same time in the 4-3 with Jones in the middle and Maualuga playing the SAM. The guys that make them able to play the 3-4 in certain passing situations are guys like rookie defensive end Michael Johnson and ends Jon Fanene and Frostee Rucker. Johnson can drop and rush as a linebacker while Fanene and Rucker are big enough to book-end a 3-4 line.But they are still a base 4-3 that has some 3-4 packages. An even better 3-4 fit could be WILL linebacker Keith Rivers moving next to Maualuga with Johnson at one OLB and Robert Geathers/Antwan Odom at the other OLB. But, you're right, their personnel says they can use the 3-4 a little more but it won’t be their main staple.http://www.bengals.com/news/hobson-online/...40-8a99e599cfa7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 yes but michael johnson can attack the QB just fine from the DE position... why move him to a position where he presumably won't do as well? Why won't he do as well if his primary role doesn't change? Look at it this way. Michael Johnson became the actual player so many of us were talking about in those "Draft Orakpo" threads of a few months ago. And that much discussed hybrid DE/OLB role should result in Johnson getting IMMEDIATE playing time....something very few 3rd round draft picks will be able to offer other teams. And by immediate I mean a meaningful contribution of a dozen snaps a game as early as the first or second game. From there you increase his snap count based upon how quickly he developes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 yes but michael johnson can attack the QB just fine from the DE position... why move him to a position where he presumably won't do as well?He'll continue playing Defensive End as a passrush specialist but it doesn't hurt to see if you can get more out of the guy..If he turns out to be the Hybrid DE/LB they've been looking for super! If he looks to be purely 3rd down passrushing end so be it and leave him there and still get something we needed....It's not like their forcing it simply seeing what abilitys the guy has and how to to best use them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GapControl Posted June 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 isn't he too tall to play LB? are there any recent dominating LB/DE hybrids that are 6'6 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 isn't he too tall to play LB? are there any recent dominating LB/DE hybrids that are 6'6 ?I can't answer that one and can't recall any that are 6'6 right off the top of my head. What I can answer is that I trust both Fitzgerald and Zimmer in doing what they believe is the right thing for the LB corps and defense. It's been a long time since I've been able to say that about either of those two coaching positions !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 But with his build & Athleticism I don't really seeing him being 2-3 inches taller then your normal linebacker being a problem.Line backers that I know are 6'6+Ted Hendricks 6'7Greg Ellis 6'6Vince Redd 6'6plenty of Linebackers who are 6'5+ Brandon Johnson being one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom42 Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 But with his build & Athleticism I don't really seeing him being 2-3 inches taller then your normal linebacker being a problem.Line backers that I know are 6'6+Ted Hendricks 6'7Greg Ellis 6'6Vince Redd 6'6plenty of Linebackers who are 6'5+ Brandon Johnson being one of them.Don't forget Kim Bokamper (6' 6 1/2"), who was one of Don Shula's Killer B's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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