Andre Smith's (on-field) fate decided

[Kazkal]

Then again, I can now see Guard as a draft need for next year.

It was already a need Bobbie Williams will be a free agent next year,kind of why I was hoping we could get Duke Robinson and have time to develop him ohwell

[derekshank]

Yeah. But if they had announced immediately that they planned to use him as a RT, the fans would have erupted about the prospect of using a #6 overall pick on a RT.

Let 'em erupt. It's an outdated argument that no longer means nearly as much as it once did. ORT's get franchise tagged now, OG's can and frequently do command OT money, and even the lowly OC position now commands huge dollars on the FA market. So play the guy wherever you think he fits best from day one and let the media hacks and hand wringing fans yammer on about whether Smith at ORT is a possible sign of something troubling....because all I see is a huge hole filled better than anyone could have imagined prior to the combine.

I agree with you Hair. I am one in favor of him playing RT simply because his run blocking skills are already elite. I think the team takes a bigger step forward with him at RT than him at LT, and I have no problem with him playing that spot for the rest of his career.

I was merely pointing out that I was surprised to see the team announcing the move so that fans could bitch about it.

[Kazkal]

agree with you Hair. I am one in favor of him playing RT simply because his run blocking skills are already elite.

Which was my only worry about him being on the left that we wouldn't be fully utilizing his run blocking skills which are his strongest feature.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Let 'em erupt. It's an outdated argument that no longer means nearly as much as it once did. ORT's get franchise tagged now, OG's can and frequently do command OT money, and even the lowly OC position now commands huge dollars on the FA market.

Exactly. The whole "LT are better" thing is very circular, since the best prospects get put there. As you say, they said that about LG too, until Steve Hutchinson showed that a good LG can add almost a full YPC to a mediocre RB.

I'm quite OK with this. If it means running effectively to both sides, so be it.

[derekshank]

The whole "LT are better" thing is very circular, since the best prospects get put there. As you say, they said that about LG too, until Steve Hutchinson showed that a good LG can add almost a full YPC to a mediocre RB.

I'm quite OK with this. If it means running effectively to both sides, so be it.

LT's are generally viewed as more important because they protect a QB's blindside, and generally don't get help from a TE.

That said... RT do often earn just as much money because of the importance of the position both in pass protection, and even more so in the running game. Besides... elite is elite, no matter where you play on the line.

I agree with Hair that A. Smith appears to be best suited for RT. I also think it is clear that even if he eventually becomes a LT, his most immediate impact to the '09 team is at RT. Fans don't have to worry about a rookie having to face the best pass rushers in the game, and get a RT that will give these RB's new life.

I'm also encouraged by Marvin's comments regarding Whitworth being a LT for years to come. This comes as a bit of surprise to me... but I was impressed with what I saw from him his rookie year. More so than what I saw from Collins last year at least.

To be frank... what concerns me the most is having a Center without an NFL snap next to a LG as green as Livings. If Cook is the guy, I'm fine with that... but it gave me a little bit of peace knowing that vets like Williams and Whit were going to be next to him. Not so much with Livings.

Oh well. Whit should be an noticable upgrade over Levi. A. Smith should be a huge upgrade over Andrews. Cook should be an upgrade over Ghiaciuc. And that's just the O-Line. With all of those "shoulds" This entire team "should" a lot more competitive.

[HoTbOy]

While I did want ASmith to play his natural position at LT if PAlexander think that it would be best suited for him to play RT that's fine with me, while I used to think that alot of the OLines problems were coaching, the team gave up 17 Sacks in 05 with different lineman and the same coaching and we went to the playoffs so maybe PAlexander should start getting a little more credit when he has something to work with, because we have one of the best OL's in the league afterall he has been an OLine coach 15 years...So if running more makes for a better play action from CPalmer I'm all for that...

[derekshank]

while I used to think that alot of the OLines problems were coaching, the team gave up 17 Sacks in 05 with different lineman and the same coaching

It also gave up only 15 sacks in '06 and 8 sacks in '07.

Levi turned to s**t, Ghiaciuc (who was never good to begin with) regressed, and Andrews couldn't handle the job. It also didn't help that Fitzpatrick liked to hold on to the ball too long.

While this new line might not get the Bengals back to allowing only 8 sacks... There are upgrades at multiple positions on the line - and A. Smith at RT with Benson running the ball should give those pass rushers something to think about before going full tilt after Palmer.

[HAPPYJAQ]

I've been away from the board recently, but I've been saying since February that our LT of the future was already on the roster in the form of Whit or Collins, and many on this board scoffed at that.

Fans need to understand that we've gone from a team with no depth at OT, to a team with above-average depth at the position. It really makes sense, in the event we lose a starting OT or two, which we've done in some respect in each of the last 5 seasons.

The Bengals must figure that Livings and Whit should both be starting, which works for me. If something goes awry in the pre-season, it's much easier to find a quality OG than it is a quality OT.

As far as Dre goes, it's a good move to put him at RT, IMO. I NEVER want a rookie LT starting game 1, and imagine the fallout after his holdout (which is as sure a guarantee for this upcoming season as the Bengals will get). We're fine with Anthony Collins starting on the right-side until Smith is ready, if this indeed unfolds the way I think it will. Collins will be our supersub along the OL, as Whit was his 1st season, and we won't miss a beat. Think how important that was in '05, when we had some injuries and Whit came in and didn't miss a beat. I think Collins will be even better than that his 2nd season.

[Ickey44]

I've been away from the board recently, but I've been saying since February that our LT of the future was already on the roster in the form of Whit or Collins, and many on this board scoffed at that.

Fans need to understand that we've gone from a team with no depth at OT, to a team with above-average depth at the position. It really makes sense, in the event we lose a starting OT or two, which we've done in some respect in each of the last 5 seasons.

The Bengals must figure that Livings and Whit should both be starting, which works for me. If something goes awry in the pre-season, it's much easier to find a quality OG than it is a quality OT.

As far as Dre goes, it's a good move to put him at RT, IMO. I NEVER want a rookie LT starting game 1, and imagine the fallout after his holdout (which is as sure a guarantee for this upcoming season as the Bengals will get). We're fine with Anthony Collins starting on the right-side until Smith is ready, if this indeed unfolds the way I think it will. Collins will be our supersub along the OL, as Whit was his 1st season, and we won't miss a beat. Think how important that was in '05, when we had some injuries and Whit came in and didn't miss a beat. I think Collins will be even better than that his 2nd season.

How on Earth did Whit come in and play in '05 when he wasn't even drafted until '06??

[HAPPYJAQ]

I've been away from the board recently, but I've been saying since February that our LT of the future was already on the roster in the form of Whit or Collins, and many on this board scoffed at that.

Fans need to understand that we've gone from a team with no depth at OT, to a team with above-average depth at the position. It really makes sense, in the event we lose a starting OT or two, which we've done in some respect in each of the last 5 seasons.

The Bengals must figure that Livings and Whit should both be starting, which works for me. If something goes awry in the pre-season, it's much easier to find a quality OG than it is a quality OT.

As far as Dre goes, it's a good move to put him at RT, IMO. I NEVER want a rookie LT starting game 1, and imagine the fallout after his holdout (which is as sure a guarantee for this upcoming season as the Bengals will get). We're fine with Anthony Collins starting on the right-side until Smith is ready, if this indeed unfolds the way I think it will. Collins will be our supersub along the OL, as Whit was his 1st season, and we won't miss a beat. Think how important that was in '05, when we had some injuries and Whit came in and didn't miss a beat. I think Collins will be even better than that his 2nd season.

How on Earth did Whit come in and play in '05 when he wasn't even drafted until '06??

An admitted error on the year, but in his rookie season he started several games at LT due Levi being injured and played well. As you know, we only missed the playoffs that season on a botched extra point, before failing to beat Pittsburgh at home the final game that season.

My point is that Whit played well there in college for a National Championship team, his rookie season in Cincinnati on a playoff-caliber team, and should be even better his 4th season in the league. He'll have 4 1/2 months to get the rust off through camp and get used to playing on the outside again.

[Pidge]

Then again, I can now see Guard as a draft need for next year.

Indeed it is. Mind you, it should be every yr, imo. You can never have too many good linemen. Not sure what the OT depth is for next yr but hopefully we'll find ourselves good college tackle who will transition into a damn fine G in the pros in the middle rounds.

[Pidge]

I like Whit. I like the intensity he plays with and he's got football smarts. Understands the game from what I can tell. He can really become a leader on this team this yr.

[themaninblack]

I think Andre is capable of playing either side at a very high level and while Whitworth is slotted at LT right now, I think AC is really the future over there. Ive said for a long time that Whit is an All Pro caliber G and a capable LT but I really do believe AC could be better than him in that position. Andre will be able to really show his run blocking at right and I dont think this move will be a problem at all.

Also, changing spots along the offensive line(with the exception of center) should not even be compared to the switch the team wanted Pollack to make in the sense that it is not nearly as difficult. Not even in the same ballpark really.

[HAPPYJAQ]

I think Andre is capable of playing either side at a very high level and while Whitworth is slotted at LT right now, I think AC is really the future over there. Ive said for a long time that Whit is an All Pro caliber G and a capable LT but I really do believe AC could be better than him in that position. Andre will be able to really show his run blocking at right and I dont think this move will be a problem at all.

Also, changing spots along the offensive line(with the exception of center) should not even be compared to the switch the team wanted Pollack to make in the sense that it is not nearly as difficult. Not even in the same ballpark really.

Bobbie is a UFA after the season. I realize it's down the road some, but would anyone be upset if Andre is the starting RG in '10, with Collins playing next to him at RT?

Otherwise, RG will be a need with Bobbie turing 33 this season.

[whizzo]

would anyone be upset if Andre is the starting RG in '10

very. i'm sorry, but i don't to use a guy we drafted at #6 overall inside at G. too much value.

[derekshank]

would anyone be upset if Andre is the starting RG in '10

very. i'm sorry, but i don't to use a guy we drafted at #6 overall inside at G. too much value.

It's not just about where he was drafted. It's his skill set. The dude will likely be the best OT on the team, and certainly the best run blocking OT, suiting him perfectly for RT. Why move him inside, when he will likely skillfully hold down that position for the next decade?

[ArmyBengal]

would anyone be upset if Andre is the starting RG in '10

Yes, VERY upset. If the staff were to somehow determine that he is no better than an OG, something would have gone terribly wrong. You don't have what was once considered to be the best player in the draft and the most dominant LT in the country somehow ending up as your starting RG. This would indeed irritate me.

If Collins was to be the starting RT, my question would then be why not put him there now, putting Smith at the LT and leaving Whit where he is ??

It just wouldn't make sense to me...

[Kazkal]

If Collins was to be the starting RT, my question would then be why not put him there now, putting Smith at the LT and leaving Whit where he is ??

Because maybe they feel Andres Biggest Impact will be on the right side because of the running game? or maybe they were as happy with how Livings did last year & feel whitworth is a better tackle then Collins ?

[ArmyBengal]

If Collins was to be the starting RT, my question would then be why not put him there now, putting Smith at the LT and leaving Whit where he is ??

Because maybe they feel Andres Biggest Impact will be on the right side because of the running game? or maybe they were as happy with how Livings did last year & feel whitworth is a better tackle then Collins ?

That was in direct response to the thought of moving Andre Smith to RG and I'm MORE than ok with him being the right tackle.

Going back, the thought was Collins to RT and Smith to RG. It was to that I posed the question. All good...

[Kazkal]

Ahhhh okay then ,Ya no way in hell I want to see big fella in @ RG.

[HAPPYJAQ]

So what happens if Smith has a lengthy holdout, which should almost be expected, and Collins plays lights out in his absence? In any event, I don't know if we've ever had this much depth at T, including Kooistra.

[ArmyBengal]

If he holds out and Collins plays lights out, like you suggest, we still have no idea at that point if Smith is going to be the better player as he hasn't taken the sanps. I honestly think they would insert Smith as soon as possible and move on as they expect him to anchor this line for the next 10 years...