kurgan's final 2009 Mock Draft

[DesperateDerelict]

I haven't admitted it because I think your wrong. I can't find a single piece of game film where Eugene Monroe had trouble handling anyone.

Whatever dude. I'm not going to debate you anymore. You are clearly blinded by your man crush. Eugene Monroe is the next Munoz, and no matter how many scouts talk about his lack of fire, his refusal to finish players off, his lower body weakness, his lack of focus resulting in penalties, his lack of ability in run blocking and his durability concerns, you seem to think it's a slam dunk sure thing.

If he was who you think he was, he'd be going #1 overall. But he's not... because he's not even the best at his own position.

While you gentlemen are arguing the relative merits of Andre Smith vs. Eugene Monroe, allow me to point out a few disconcerting facts.

1) The Bengals pay little or no attention to posted mocks and media draft experts, making their own decisions via tape and personal observation.

2) The most impressive specimen at the senior bowl, with the possible exception of Raji, was Michael Oher.

3) Michael Oher's game film is as impressive as either Smith's or Monroe's tapes.

4) Oher is being downgraded due to his background and work ethic....but idiot-Mikey's reputation as the "Redeemer" stems from his delusion he can turn around almost any individual.

In summation, instead of arguing A. Smith vs. E. Monroe, I'd be concerned about them reaching for Michael Oher.

[ArmyBengal]

Well, for your reading pleasure, here's Marvin's take on Andre Smith from the new article on the official site:

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/beng...2a-440fd125b361

The one tackle continually linked to the Bengals is Alabama left tackle Andre Smith, thought by many to be the best tackle on film but the biggest risk because of weight and maturity issues. But Lewis stressed Smith is not in his doghouse and pointed to the heavy NFL experience of Crimson Tide head coach Nick Saban and offensive line coach Joe Pendry.

"This guy's perception has been all over the yard. In spending time with him, it's a positive," Lewis said. "You've got to look at his background, look who he's played for. This guy has played for a couple of pretty good coaches, and, secondly, he's played for some guys that have been in the NFL for a long time. We've got to respect the opinions they have of the player.

I haven't seen anything in regards to how he feels about the other tackles in the draft, but that's not a definitive, just an observation.

What other prospects have they brought in for visits besides Andre Smith anyway ??

[Wraith]

Ok, don't debate me, just find me one scout who has Andre Smith rated ahead of Eugene Monroe in a post that was dated in the last two month. I've looked and I can't anyone other than Jaime Dukes.

Here are a few more I could find that support my position, these are current as of today.

Mike Mayock NFL Network

Offensive tackles

1 Eugene Monroe Virginia Kept Branden Albert at guard, gifted pass protector

2 Jason Smith Baylor Think Ryan Clady, needs run-game improvement

3 *Andre Smith Alabama Surprisingly nimble feet, beware weight fluctuation

4 Michael Oher Mississippi Naturally gifted LT, highly inconsistent

5 *Eben Britton Arizona Solid technician, needs more sand in pants

SCOUTS INC TOP 32Player Pos. School Grade

1. Aaron Curry OLB Wake Forest 97

2. Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech 97

3. Jason Smith OT Baylor 96

4. Brian Orakpo DE Texas 96

5. Eugene Monroe OT Virginia 96

6. Aaron Maybin DE Penn State 95

7. B.J. Raji DT Boston Coll. 95

8. Matthew Stafford QB Georgia 95

9. Mark Sanchez QB USC 94

10. Jeremy Maclin WR Missouri 94

11. Malcolm Jenkins CB Ohio State 94

12. Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma State 94

13. Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia 94

14. Andre Smith OT Alabama 94

And for the record I don't have a "man crush" on Monroe, I would take Jason Smith over him and if I have a "man crush" on anyone it is Maualuga who I maintain, in the end would be the best fit for the Bengals out of anyone in this draft.

[ArmyBengal]

Ok, don't debate me, just find me one scout who has Andre Smith rated ahead of Eugene Monroe in a post that was dated in the last two month. I've looked and I can't anyone other than Jaime Dukes.

Fair enough, but one can flip that and say if it wasn't for the poor decision made about something that had nothing to with his on field production would Andre Smith still be rated as the best player in the draft as he was for the better portion of 4 months ?? I'm guessing yes...

As for Maualuga being a good fit for the Bengals, I agree but as I stated before, I don't think the Bengals will view him as a good value pick at #6 and will pass. I would love to see Maualuga in a trade down in a perfect scenario...

[derekshank]

Ok, don't debate me, just find me one scout who has Andre Smith rated ahead of Eugene Monroe in a post that was dated in the last two month. I've looked and I can't anyone other than Jaime Dukes.

Fair enough, but one can flip that and say if it wasn't for the poor decision made about something that had nothing to with his on field production would Andre Smith still be rated as the best player in the draft as he was for the better portion of 4 months ?? I'm guessing yes...

As for Maualuga being a good fit for the Bengals, I agree but as I stated before, I don't think the Bengals will view him as a good value pick at #6 and will pass. I would love to see Maualuga in a trade down in a perfect scenario...

Yep. There isn't a single scout out there that downgraded A. Smith because of his on the field ability. That's my whole point throughout this. I'm not concerned about the miscue at the combine that has Kiper's panties in a bind. I'm more interested in how he plays the game... and it is a consensus that had the combine not existed, he'd be the #1 or #2 pick.

[derekshank]

In summation, instead of arguing A. Smith vs. E. Monroe, I'd be concerned about them reaching for Michael Oher.

The reason the Bengals won't take Oher is the same reason they won't take Maualuga. If they want either, they can be had significantly later in the draft and there will be a trade down (or up).

Frankly, my dream scenario is one involving Curry being drafted at the #6 slot, and then the Bengals trading their 2nd round and 3rd round picks to get back in the first round to grab Oher.

It won't happen, but to me, that is the best possible value the Bengals can hope for in day 1.

[Wraith]

Just an FYI, this is from the Warroom a collection of current and former NFL scouts and I think they have summed up the arguement fairly well.

Andre Smith

T, Alabama

War Room analysis

Run blocking: Has good playing strength and athletic ability to be effective as an in-line blocker and in space. Flashes ability to play under control and has the lateral quickness to slide sideways and seal the defensive end back inside on outside runs. Has a bad habit of getting lazy with his feet and will bend at the waist and reach to make contact with defender, which leads to him getting beaten with quick arm-over moves too easily. Is powerful on the seal block and a pile mover who rolls his hips on contact and will drive his feet on contact to clear out the hole. Grade: 8.0

Pass blocking: Plays smart and tough. Gets a quick kick off the ball and flashes a devastating punch to shock the pass rusher. Keeps his hands too low at times. Wins battle with defender once locked on. Has the bulk to hold his ground even if he misses with his hands initially. Does not consistently see things coming, which leads to him struggling to consistently re-direct and slide quickly in the other direction to handle quick change-of-direction pass-rush moves. Grade: 7.0

Initial quickness: Gets off the ball with good quick twitch movements and plays light on his feet. Is equally fast in the run and passing games. May have trouble protecting the corner against explosive pass rushers due to lack of elite speed. Grade: 7.5

Strength: Has great upper and lower body strength. Displays strong hands to shed the defender. Plays with a nasty streak to finish. Has the flexibility and power to move the pile and drive the defender off the ball. Displays good explosion in short yardage situations. Grade: 8.5

Mobility: Is smooth in space and has the quickness to mirror smaller defenders. Is better as a cut blocker at the second level though. At times gets lazy downfield to finish. Grade: 6.5

Bottom line: Smith has the talent to be a top offensive tackle in the NFL, but will struggle to attain that level unless he can keep his weight under control and play with better consistent technique. He may be better as a right tackle, which doesn�t require as much responsibility. While Smith is a likely top-10 pick, he has characteristics of being a possible bust.

Eugene Monroe

T, Virginia

War Room analysis

Run blocking: Is a dominant blocker at the point of attack. Shows the strength to drive the defender off the ball and open up big holes for the running back. When out in space, displays some stiffness in maneuvering and getting a block on a quicker defender. Is versatile; can also play guard. Grade: 8.5

Pass blocking: Shows athleticism and intelligence in widening the pocket with his footwork. Must improve quickness of his hand punch. Does a good job of stonewalling the defender once engaged. Grade: 8.5

Initial quickness: Displays a good burst out of his stance on run plays. Struggles to get to the corner and cut off edge rushers in pass protection. Shows excellent speed off the ball. Grade: 8.0

Strength: Showed excellent strength at the college level, which will make his transition to the NFL easier because of the hard work he put into the weight room. Must learn to play with better leverage. When playing with solid technique, can dominate defenders of all sizes. Grade: 8.5

Mobility: Shows good footwork along the line of scrimmage, but struggles once he breaks the line. Loses his knee bend when downfield and gets high at times. Fails to move with great agility to block quicker linebackers and defensive backs. Must do a better job seeing the field. Grade: 7.0

Bottom line: Monroe emerged as an anchor for Virginia�s offensive line as a junior and his play continued to improve his senior season, causing him to rise on draft boards across the NFL. He is already a solid pass blocker and strong run blocker, and simply needs consistency in his technique to become an elite offensive tackle early in his career. Overall, he must have done something right to keep the LT job at Virginia when B. Albert was relegated to playing LG. While he hasn�t received the hype of Andre Smith and may not be as talented, when it comes to overall consistency and a safe bet with a high draft pick, Monroe is the winner.

[ArmyBengal]

Honestly, as I've said before, I will be happy with the pick at #6 as long as the name isn't Crabtree.

If Monroe is the guy they feel is best suited for this team, then so be it and I will be happy we got a very good prospect at a position of need.

If A. Smith is the guy, then I will feel the same way.

It's a nice analysis, but being able to acknowledge that one teams warroom analysis is going to be different from anothers is the key.

Is that an actual NFL team analysis or just some website giving their opinion like we do here ??

[Kazkal]

Ok, don't debate me, just find me one scout who has Andre Smith rated ahead of Eugene Monroe in a post that was dated in the last two month. I've looked and I can't anyone other than Jaime Dukes.

Here are a few more I could find that support my position, these are current as of today.

Mike Mayock NFL Network

Offensive tackles

1 Eugene Monroe Virginia Kept Branden Albert at guard, gifted pass protector

2 Jason Smith Baylor Think Ryan Clady, needs run-game improvement

3 *Andre Smith Alabama Surprisingly nimble feet, beware weight fluctuation

4 Michael Oher Mississippi Naturally gifted LT, highly inconsistent

5 *Eben Britton Arizona Solid technician, needs more sand in pants

SCOUTS INC TOP 32Player Pos. School Grade

1. Aaron Curry OLB Wake Forest 97

2. Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech 97

3. Jason Smith OT Baylor 96

4. Brian Orakpo DE Texas 96

5. Eugene Monroe OT Virginia 96

6. Aaron Maybin DE Penn State 95

7. B.J. Raji DT Boston Coll. 95

8. Matthew Stafford QB Georgia 95

9. Mark Sanchez QB USC 94

10. Jeremy Maclin WR Missouri 94

11. Malcolm Jenkins CB Ohio State 94

12. Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma State 94

13. Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia 94

14. Andre Smith OT Alabama 94

And for the record I don't have a "man crush" on Monroe, I would take Jason Smith over him and if I have a "man crush" on anyone it is Maualuga who I maintain, in the end would be the best fit for the Bengals out of anyone in this draft.

How many opinions were swayed because of the combine? Jason Smith would not be rated 1# OT if it wasn't for the combine and Andre Smith wouldn't be 3#.

[Wraith]

The War Room is an organization that pumps information to The Sporting News, from their site.

"When we say "experts," we mean it! Our War Room scouts have worked at every level of college and pro football, from on-field coaching to NFL front-office management. We’re talking over 160 years of college and pro experience!

Get analysis from the people attending games, practices and training camps.

Get insight from experts who watch hours of film so you don't have to.

Enter the Pro Football War Room for serious expert insight! "

I have always found their analysis, detailed and for the most part correct.

Oh, and what happens if his name is Chris "Beanie" Wells?

[ArmyBengal]

Oh, and what happens if his name is Chris "Beanie" Wells?

Oh Jesus help us !!!

I meant players that should "actually go" at #6, but sometimes that's out the door for us Bengal fans huh ??