Don't we have to take an OT in the 1st or 2nd?

[PhunkE1]

Doesn't OT have to be our top priority going into the draft? The main difference in this team now compared to 05 is the Oline play. Palmer has shown that when given time he's one of the best QB's in the league. When he's not given time he's a below average QB. He doesn't have that sixth sense and athleticism of a Roeth or Romo to be able to extend a play. When Levi and Willie were both at the top of their game this team was on the rise. Now that they are both either gone or a shell of their former selves it changes the way this offense goes about things. Ocho's strength is his deep speed and quickness. He hasn't been able to utilize these skills since 06. Palmer didn't have the time to let his big play routes develop. Personally, and I was saying this before Palmer got hurt, I felt like Fitz gave us a better chance to win last year. He at least had some mobility to be able to extend plays and take that 5 yard scamper if that's what the defense gave him. Palmer just looked shell shocked back there last year.

Since we didn't sign anyone for Oline help during FA I think we have to take an OT and C with two of our picks in the top 3 rounds. What does Bengaldom think?

[Jet23]

Doesn't OT have to be our top priority going into the draft? The main difference in this team now compared to 05 is the Oline play. Palmer has shown that when given time he's one of the best QB's in the league. When he's not given time he's a below average QB. He doesn't have that sixth sense and athleticism of a Roeth or Romo to be able to extend a play. When Levi and Willie were both at the top of their game this team was on the rise. Now that they are both either gone or a shell of their former selves it changes the way this offense goes about things. Ocho's strength is his deep speed and quickness. He hasn't been able to utilize these skills since 06. Palmer didn't have the time to let his big play routes develop. Personally, and I was saying this before Palmer got hurt, I felt like Fitz gave us a better chance to win last year. He at least had some mobility to be able to extend plays and take that 5 yard scamper if that's what the defense gave him. Palmer just looked shell shocked back there last year.

Since we didn't sign anyone for Oline help during FA I think we have to take an OT and C with two of our picks in the top 3 rounds. What does Bengaldom think?

Personally, if available at six, I would take Raji. If he is gone, I would definitely go OT. I just hope he is coached up before he gets here.

[HairOnFire]

My take?

Months ago the very first utterings of draft talk quickly pointed to the selection of an OT at #6 and there was plenty of debate, some heated, about whether it mattered if circumstances dictated the Bengals settle for the 3rd ranked OT.

Frankly, for me personally....that's when it felt like the Bengals hands were tied. So I fought back as best I could, mostly by using Brian Orakpo as a hammer.

As for now, I'm actually feeling MUCH better, thank you. And the reason I feel better is because I no longer feel like the Bengals are locked into horribly reaching for an OT. Rather, in the months since this debate began a disgraced blue chipper who just so happens to be the very best OT prospect in the entire draft has fallen into the Bengals collective laps.

Sweet.

[PhunkE1]

My take?

Months ago the very first utterings of draft talk quickly pointed to the selection of an OT at #6 and there was plenty of debate, some heated, about whether it mattered if circumstances dictated the Bengals settle for the 3rd ranked OT.

Frankly, for me personally....that's when it felt like the Bengals hands were tied. So I fought back as best I could, mostly by using Brian Orakpo as a hammer.

As for now, I'm actually feeling MUCH better, thank you. And the reason I feel better is because I no longer feel like the Bengals are locked into horribly reaching for an OT. Rather, in the months since this debate began a disgraced blue chipper who just so happens to be the very best OT prospect in the entire draft has fallen into the Bengals collective laps.

Sweet.

I hear you Hair, and I'm also fine with taking ASmith at #6. I think his off the field issues have been blown way out of proportion. We're talking about the concensus #1 prospect going into last year.

[ArmyBengal]

With the question being "Do we HAVE TO ??" I would say no. We could wait until the top of the third and take a pure RT prospect and probably be ok with it. The question then becomes, why when you can get one of the top players in the draft there at #6 ?? Wouldn't waiting and hoping the guy in the 3rd produces an equal if not more of a risk as taking someone at #6 ??

Sweet indeed Hair...

[Jet23]

My take?

Months ago the very first utterings of draft talk quickly pointed to the selection of an OT at #6 and there was plenty of debate, some heated, about whether it mattered if circumstances dictated the Bengals settle for the 3rd ranked OT.

Frankly, for me personally....that's when it felt like the Bengals hands were tied. So I fought back as best I could, mostly by using Brian Orakpo as a hammer.

As for now, I'm actually feeling MUCH better, thank you. And the reason I feel better is because I no longer feel like the Bengals are locked into horribly reaching for an OT. Rather, in the months since this debate began a disgraced blue chipper who just so happens to be the very best OT prospect in the entire draft has fallen into the Bengals collective laps.

Sweet.

If Raji, Jason Smith and Monore are all off the board, I would have no problem with them taking the big fella. His stock drop reminds me of Warren Sapp.....and he turned out pretty o.k.

[Walrus]

Depends on if you're ok w/ Collins being our starting LT. It's conceivable that the team feels good enough about Collins that, if there are better players sitting there when we draft, we will forego drafting an OT in Rds 1&2 in favor of a (perceived) superior player at another position.

Say there is no tackle worthy of #6 available and the team goes Raji in the first and then maybe picks up a top RB or pass-rusher like Barwin in Rd 2. One of the top Centers should be available at the beginning of the 3rd and then with our supplemental 3rd or our 4th we could pick up a starting RT or OG. I would be thrilled with that.

If Collins is a starting NFL tackle.

[ArmyBengal]

Depends on if you're ok w/ Collins being our starting LT. It's conceivable that the team feels good enough about Collins that, if there are better players sitting there when we draft, we will forego drafting an OT in Rds 1&2 in favor of a (perceived) superior player at another position.

Say there is no tackle worthy of #6 available and the team goes Raji in the first and then maybe picks up a top RB or pass-rusher like Barwin in Rd 2. One of the top Centers should be available at the beginning of the 3rd and then with our supplemental 3rd or our 4th we could pick up a starting RT or OG. I would be thrilled with that.

If Collins is a starting NFL tackle.

Nicely said...

[JoePong]

No, we don't.

[Kazkal]

Depends on if you're ok w/ Collins being our starting LT. It's conceivable that the team feels good enough about Collins that, if there are better players sitting there when we draft, we will forego drafting an OT in Rds 1&2 in favor of a (perceived) superior player at another position.

Say there is no tackle worthy of #6 available and the team goes Raji in the first and then maybe picks up a top RB or pass-rusher like Barwin in Rd 2. One of the top Centers should be available at the beginning of the 3rd and then with our supplemental 3rd or our 4th we could pick up a starting RT or OG. I would be thrilled with that.

If Collins is a starting NFL tackle.

I much rather see us trade down if possible instead Raji and try get Maualuga,Which if we got the extra picks we could use our 4th to trade up to the bottom of the 2nd Leap Frogging the Steelers to take Eric Wood

Myself dream would be instead of Raji..

Trade down 3-5 spots and Take Maualuga in the 1st...

2nd Draft Connor Barwin

Use the 4th round pick and trade up to 55-58ish and take Eric Wood

Draft Best Tackle & Guard with extra 3rd & Comp.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Depends on if you're ok w/ Collins being our starting LT. It's conceivable that the team feels good enough about Collins that, if there are better players sitting there when we draft, we will forego drafting an OT in Rds 1&2 in favor of a (perceived) superior player at another position.

Say there is no tackle worthy of #6 available and the team goes Raji in the first and then maybe picks up a top RB or pass-rusher like Barwin in Rd 2. One of the top Centers should be available at the beginning of the 3rd and then with our supplemental 3rd or our 4th we could pick up a starting RT or OG. I would be thrilled with that.

If Collins is a starting NFL tackle.

Nicely said...

X2

Here's my other thinking. Anthony Collins came out a year early and may have been the top OT available in this draft, had he not came out last year. He was a AP 1st team All-American in '07, along with Jake Long. That said, we were still able to draft this guy in the 4th round. IMO, he IS our 1st round LT. Also consider that his first live action in the NFL as a starter was against some of the league's best pash rushers and he faired as well as you can expect a rooke going to play against guys like Freeney and Harrison. Andrew Whitworth played LT in 10 games his rookie season and it's crazy to think he's regressed in 3 seasons. He also played RT for the National Champion LSU Tigers his Senior Season. Put Whit at RT in mini-camp, let him get used to the position again, and he's your RT for the next decade.

IMO, the Bengals should be looking for a solid G and C prospect, while hoping another T type slides to them, similar to last season. There's no reason to draft a RT at #6, who might not even be as good as Whit at RT and clearly wasn't as good as Collins was in '07.

[HairOnFire]

Move this guy here then move that one there. And the OLG is playing at a Pro Bowl level...so move him too.

Frankly, I don't get it. There's a gaping hole at RT, yet many of you simply can't bring yourself to consider filling that hole with a plug-and-play Outland Trophy winner.

[Clackwoods]

Depends on if you're ok w/ Collins being our starting LT. It's conceivable that the team feels good enough about Collins that, if there are better players sitting there when we draft, we will forego drafting an OT in Rds 1&2 in favor of a (perceived) superior player at another position.

Say there is no tackle worthy of #6 available and the team goes Raji in the first and then maybe picks up a top RB or pass-rusher like Barwin in Rd 2. One of the top Centers should be available at the beginning of the 3rd and then with our supplemental 3rd or our 4th we could pick up a starting RT or OG. I would be thrilled with that.

If Collins is a starting NFL tackle.

I much rather see us trade down if possible instead Raji and try get Maualuga,Which if we got the extra picks we could use our 4th to trade up to the bottom of the 2nd Leap Frogging the Steelers to take Eric Wood

Myself dream would be instead of Raji..

Trade down 3-5 spots and Take Maualuga in the 1st...

2nd Draft Connor Barwin

Use the 4th round pick and trade up to 55-58ish and take Eric Wood

Draft Best Tackle & Guard with extra 3rd & Comp.

If that happened I would creme myself.

[HairOnFire]

If that happened I would creme myself.

I had no idea you were from France.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Move this guy here then move that one there. And the OLG is playing at a Pro Bowl level...so move him too.

Frankly, I don't get it. There's a gaping hole at RT, yet many of you simply can't bring yourself to consider filling that hole with a plug-and-play Outland Trophy winner.

2007 - Glenn Dorsey, DT LSU

2006 - Joe Thomas, OT Wisconsin

2005 - Greg Eslinger, C Minnesota

2004 - Jamaal Brown, OT Oklahoma

2003 - Robert Gallery, OT Iowa

2002 - Rien Long, DT Washington State

2001 - Bryant McKinnie, OT Miami

2000 - John Henderson, DT Tennessee

1999 - Chris Samuels, T Alabama

1998 - Kris Farris, T UCLA

1997 - Aaron Taylor, G Nebraska

1996 - Orlando Pace, T Ohio State

1995 - Jonathan Ogden, T UCLA

1994 - Zack Wiegert, T Nebraska

1993 - Rob Waldrop, NG Arizona

1992 - Will Shields, G Nebraska

1991 - Steve Emtman, DT Washington

1990 - Russell Maryland, NG Miami, Fla

Seven Outland Trophy winners have made the Pro Bowl out of the last 18 years. Only five of those were offensive tackles. You want your first-round pick, #6 overall, to be at least a Pro Bowler, right? Based on fairly recent Outland winners' track records, its not as sure-fire as it may seem.

I just don't see RT to be as much a gaping hole as you do. Most fans would be hard pressed to name the Top 5 RTs in football today, or even the starting RTs for the Cardinals and Steelers last season. Whitworth was DRAFTED to be a RT, and a eventual successor to Willie Anderson. He was MOVED to LG once Steinback left for Cleveland, after playing mostly LT his rookie season. Also consider that Collins started at LT last season for the final few games and you're really only moving Whit back to his natural position.

I guess the bottom line is that I agree with Army in believing that if you're looking for a player to just play RT, there are plenty of options available after the 1st (or even 2nd) round. I agree that we need to address the offensive line, but the more pressing need is at C, IMO. Out of the entire NFL, how many dominant, game changing RTs are there? It's a very different matter if Andre is a LT, but that's very questionable, at best.

[derekshank]

I just don't see RT to be as much a gaping hole as you do. Most fans would be hard pressed to name the Top 5 RTs in football today, or even the starting RTs for the Cardinals and Steelers last season. Whitworth was DRAFTED to be a RT, and a eventual successor to Willie Anderson. He was MOVED to LG once Steinback left for Cleveland, after playing mostly LT his rookie season. Also consider that Collins started at LT last season for the final few games and you're really only moving Whit back to his natural position.

I guess the bottom line is that I agree with Army in believing that if you're looking for a player to just play RT, there are plenty of options available after the 1st (or even 2nd) round. I agree that we need to address the offensive line, but the more pressing need is at C, IMO. Out of the entire NFL, how many dominant, game changing RTs are there? It's a very different matter if Andre is a LT, but that's very questionable, at best.

You're argument is weak from beginning to end. Who cares how many fans can name the top 5 RT's? Does that make the position unimportant? DT's have fewer players with name recognition than WR's... but that doesn't make them unimportant. Many will tell you that DT is the most important position on the entire defense.

Secondly, the reason you claim they drafted Whitworth is speculative. Unless you were in the war room, you don't know the intent of his pick. And even if that is the reason they drafted him, he's found a home at LG. He's good at that position, and there's no reason to change it unless they absolutely have to.

Thirdly, Smith was a consensus top 2 pick based on his on the field performance. I see no reason he wouldn't be a major upgrade at the LT position over anything currently on the Bengals roster.

[Wraith]

If we trade down and get an extra 2nd then we could use the extra pick to take a Guard like Robinson and use our first 2nd to pick up Mack, Unger or Wood.

LT Andrew Whitworth, LG Duke Robinson, C, Alex Mack, RG, Bobbie Williams, RT Anthony Collins would work just fine for me, we have to spend 2 of our first three picks on an O Lineman neither have to be a Tackle. Oh and by the way, we gave up the fewest sacks in franchise history with rookie whitworth starting 11 games at LT so I feel pretty ok with it.

[HAPPYJAQ]

I just don't see RT to be as much a gaping hole as you do. Most fans would be hard pressed to name the Top 5 RTs in football today, or even the starting RTs for the Cardinals and Steelers last season. Whitworth was DRAFTED to be a RT, and a eventual successor to Willie Anderson. He was MOVED to LG once Steinback left for Cleveland, after playing mostly LT his rookie season. Also consider that Collins started at LT last season for the final few games and you're really only moving Whit back to his natural position.

I guess the bottom line is that I agree with Army in believing that if you're looking for a player to just play RT, there are plenty of options available after the 1st (or even 2nd) round. I agree that we need to address the offensive line, but the more pressing need is at C, IMO. Out of the entire NFL, how many dominant, game changing RTs are there? It's a very different matter if Andre is a LT, but that's very questionable, at best.

You're argument is weak from beginning to end. Who cares how many fans can name the top 5 RT's? Does that make the position unimportant? DT's have fewer players with name recognition than WR's... but that doesn't make them unimportant. Many will tell you that DT is the most important position on the entire defense.

Secondly, the reason you claim they drafted Whitworth is speculative. Unless you were in the war room, you don't know the intent of his pick. And even if that is the reason they drafted him, he's found a home at LG. He's good at that position, and there's no reason to change it unless they absolutely have to.

Thirdly, Smith was a consensus top 2 pick based on his on the field performance. I see no reason he wouldn't be a major upgrade at the LT position over anything currently on the Bengals roster.

...And I believe your football knowledge is weak if you think Andre Smith is a slam-dunk "MAJOR" upgrade over anyone we currently have on the roster who might project to be the opening-day LT for the Bengals. Hell, a lot of people are saying that Andre Smith is no better than a RG in the NFL. The Bengals have players along the offensive line that change positions to improve the team all the time. Alexander has even gone on record in saying that players who are versatile are pluses, in his evaluation of prospects.

You might be right on the speculation on Whit, but all we as fans have to go on is speculation. You're even speculating that Andre Smith is a LT in the NFL, based on what he did against teams like Western Kentucky and Arkansas State last season in college, while totalling ignoring that other clearly evident issues and questions surrounding him. Without a doubt, he is the biggest gamble in the entire draft and it's been a while since I've seen a player that can go anywhere from 2-20, this late in the draft process.

Furthermore, you completely and utterly missed my point in the part of my previous post about naming RTs. To clarify, a good team can be productive on offense without a Superstar RT. The better value is in getting a player who can impact a game in other ways with the 6th pick overall in the entire draft. The Bengals didn't just let Willie Anderson and Stacey Andrews go to blow 45-55 million dollars on an unproven rookie. Quality RTs will be available throughout the 1st half of the draft (outside of the 1st round), as they always are.

[HAPPYJAQ]

**DOUBLE POST**

[Wraith]

see Williams, Mike

[PhunkE1]

At this point everything is speculation. Some of us are high on ASmith, and some aren't. Could it be that Andre Smith just reminds people of another ASmith that we drafted about 10 years ago ? I'm a SEC football fan (Graduated from UGA), so I tend to look at Andre's body of work in the SEC. He dominated the SEC for the past 2 years. I also think he could play LT in this league, but that's just me. I think Andre Smith will be the best OT out of this draft, but at this point no one knows. All I know is that I would be very happy with him at #6.

On a side note, with the Cutler trade I could see Denver wanting to move up to #6 if Sanchez is still there. I would love to move back to 12 and possibly pick up another 1st day pick. I doubt ASmith lasts until 12 though.

[cincy9275]

Depends on if you're ok w/ Collins being our starting LT. It's conceivable that the team feels good enough about Collins that, if there are better players sitting there when we draft, we will forego drafting an OT in Rds 1&2 in favor of a (perceived) superior player at another position.

Say there is no tackle worthy of #6 available and the team goes Raji in the first and then maybe picks up a top RB or pass-rusher like Barwin in Rd 2. One of the top Centers should be available at the beginning of the 3rd and then with our supplemental 3rd or our 4th we could pick up a starting RT or OG. I would be thrilled with that.

If Collins is a starting NFL tackle.

Nicely said...

X2

Here's my other thinking. Anthony Collins came out a year early and may have been the top OT available in this draft, had he not came out last year. He was a AP 1st team All-American in '07, along with Jake Long. That said, we were still able to draft this guy in the 4th round. IMO, he IS our 1st round LT. Also consider that his first live action in the NFL as a starter was against some of the league's best pash rushers and he faired as well as you can expect a rooke going to play against guys like Freeney and Harrison. Andrew Whitworth played LT in 10 games his rookie season and it's crazy to think he's regressed in 3 seasons. He also played RT for the National Champion LSU Tigers his Senior Season. Put Whit at RT in mini-camp, let him get used to the position again, and he's your RT for the next decade.

IMO, the Bengals should be looking for a solid G and C prospect, while hoping another T type slides to them, similar to last season. There's no reason to draft a RT at #6, who might not even be as good as Whit at RT and clearly wasn't as good as Collins was in '07.

where did you get you info that whit played rt for lsu? everything i have read states he played only left tackle his whole college career.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Depends on if you're ok w/ Collins being our starting LT. It's conceivable that the team feels good enough about Collins that, if there are better players sitting there when we draft, we will forego drafting an OT in Rds 1&2 in favor of a (perceived) superior player at another position.

Say there is no tackle worthy of #6 available and the team goes Raji in the first and then maybe picks up a top RB or pass-rusher like Barwin in Rd 2. One of the top Centers should be available at the beginning of the 3rd and then with our supplemental 3rd or our 4th we could pick up a starting RT or OG. I would be thrilled with that.

If Collins is a starting NFL tackle.

Nicely said...

X2

Here's my other thinking. Anthony Collins came out a year early and may have been the top OT available in this draft, had he not came out last year. He was a AP 1st team All-American in '07, along with Jake Long. That said, we were still able to draft this guy in the 4th round. IMO, he IS our 1st round LT. Also consider that his first live action in the NFL as a starter was against some of the league's best pash rushers and he faired as well as you can expect a rooke going to play against guys like Freeney and Harrison. Andrew Whitworth played LT in 10 games his rookie season and it's crazy to think he's regressed in 3 seasons. He also played RT for the National Champion LSU Tigers his Senior Season. Put Whit at RT in mini-camp, let him get used to the position again, and he's your RT for the next decade.

IMO, the Bengals should be looking for a solid G and C prospect, while hoping another T type slides to them, similar to last season. There's no reason to draft a RT at #6, who might not even be as good as Whit at RT and clearly wasn't as good as Collins was in '07.

where did you get you info that whit played rt for lsu? everything i have read states he played only left tackle his whole college career.

Upon further review, he was indeed a LT and and didn't allow a sack there his Senior season. Even better, really.

[HairOnFire]

Hell, a lot of people are saying that Andre Smith is no better than a RG in the NFL.

I hear that alot. Funny thing though, it's always you saying it.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Hell, a lot of people are saying that Andre Smith is no better than a RG in the NFL.

I hear that alot. Funny thing though, it's always you saying it.

Hair, I'm now onboard with taking Smith but here's a reference for you, from a few out that are out there.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingrepo...Andre-Smith.php