kevnz Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 One thing that has kind of been overlooked in the improvement Kitna has shown is the fact that he has a new QB coach. I like Ken Anderson and all and I think he deserves to be in the HOF, but as a QB coach he absolutely sucked. Zampese has been doing a helluva job with Kit, and Palmer(based on him moving up the depth chart and all that) and I think he should be getting some credit for the things the Bengals are doing offensively.cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halp Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 i think kitna always had the potential. the qb coaching surely helps. however i feel the main thing is the receivers know their patterns and what they are supposed to do. they also realize at times they must become a defensive back. all this is coming together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brew Man Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Good point about Zampese, I think he deserves some credit. Plus, maybe Kit finally caught on to Bratkowski's system. It is supposed to be so difficult, maybe it was just a matter of it clicking.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 I think Kitnas improvement is due to a combination of things. Having Zampese as your coach is definitely going to help. Kitna and the receivers have been together for a couple of years now, and I think that's showing. I think coach Lewis should be in for some credit as well. He stresses to the coordinators and position coaches to play to the strengths of the players. Design the system around them as opposed to trying to make them into something they're not. He also installed Kitna as the starter prior to training camp and put Palmer at number 3 to make sure Kitna didn't have to look over his shoulder. If Zampeses contribution has been overlooked, then it shouldn't have been. He's had a very impressive track record for a very long time. As much as I liked Kenny Anderson, Zampese was a definite upgrade at the position. Another group that I think has taken a major step up the last couple of weeks has been the linebackers. I don't know if its Frasier or Hunley, but somebody really has those guys playing good football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted October 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Another group that I think has taken a major step up the last couple of weeks has been the linebackers. I don't know if its Frasier or Hunley, but somebody really has those guys playing good football.Yep, the linebacker play has really stepped up as has the whole defense, but there are whispers that Hunley is going to be leaving the Bengals to take a Head Coaching job at his former college. Good for him, not very happy about it for the Bengals though.Actually, I would say every coach on the team has really stepped up, and I'm a bit worried tht Frazier and Bratowski won't be coordinators for much longer if the team keeps responding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBrooks Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Kitna is playing better than any QB in football...Just because he doesn't have the size and skills of guys like McNair, Manning and Culpepper.Sure, I'd take them and many others over Kit because they play consistently to their potential.But right now, Kitna is playing beyond what his stature would allow. He's playing smart. Not making mistakes. And other than Buffalo, taking sacks instead of forcing the issue because of pressure.Give him a ground game and the Bengals can play with any team in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitnasBengals Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 As you can judge from my name, I'm obviously a Kitna fan. Despite that, Kitna isn't close to being the best QB in football right now. Even though his number's are lower, Favre is still by far the best, especially since he has no wide recievers that can cause a threat to a defense.Culpepper is a joke who can't hang onto the ball and Randy Moss can make almost any QB look spectacular. Look at Gus...If Manning can win the Super Bowl which I think this Colts team can do, and if he keeps posting numbers like this he'll be one of the great QB's ever too. Though having Marvin Harrison makes it easier for him.Mcnair is having a breakout year... as strange as that is after he has been in the league for so long as a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Kitna is playing better than any QB in football...Just because he doesn't have the size and skills of guys like McNair, Manning and CulpepperBut right now, Kitna is playing beyond what his stature would allow. Give him a ground game and the Bengals can play with any team in the league. Hi JBrooks. Redsfan2 here. Saying that so and so is the best qb in football is very subjective a lot of the time. You could go straight by the numbers, but since they change constantly so would your opinion of who was the best. Sometimes it's a question of who fits best into their particular system or scheme.Kitna may not have the God given talent of a McNair or Manning or even Palmer, but skill is acquired through hard work and application of the talent you do have. When speaking strictly of skills, I don't think Kitna has to take a backseat to anyone. Saying that he is playing over his head or as you put it beyond his stature is not doing him justice. Coach Lewis is constantly drilling it into Kitna to play within himself. I like our chances this week against Arizona. I think they are like the Bengals in that if you don't play a full 4 quarters they wil beat you. No way the Bengals are going to take these guys lightly. On the other hand, there are several teams out there that just plain have us outgunned on both sides of the ball. I think we're a little more than a good ground game away from being able to play with any team in the league on a regular basis. Hopefully those pieces missing will be taken care of in the off seaon, but there's a lot of football between then and now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 But right now, Kitna is playing beyond what his stature would allow. He's playing smart. Not making mistakes. And other than Buffalo, taking sacks instead of forcing the issue because of pressure. Yup. There was a little blurb in the last profootballweekly.com "whispers" column to the effect that Kitna is only now embracing the idea that it's better to take a sack than to try to force a throw. Kit learns slooooowly...but he does get it eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brew Man Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Its funny that 3 games can totally switch everyones mindset.....After the Buffalo game, I was hearing calls for Palmer, Kit picks it up and now we arent even sure we want Palmer to start next year!Things can change, and fast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Its funny that 3 games can totally switch everyones mindset.....After the Buffalo game, I was hearing calls for Palmer, Kit picks it up and now we arent even sure we want Palmer to start next year!Things can change, and fast... I was neither here nor there on Kitna until he regained the starters position last year. I thought he showed a lot more class and professionalism than most of the coaching staff and all of the local media. I just like guys that handle that type of adversity well. Probably explains why I'm a Bengals fan in the first place. I would have lost all the trust that I am slowly building for Marvin Lewis if he had pulled Kitna and gone straight to the 3rd string qb. All of the screams for Palmer were actually screams of I'm frustated as h_ll and I can't take it anymore. They would also been the first to scream that we had either ruined another good prospect or drafted a dud if he was anything less than perfect. You have to remember that when people join in that type of mob frenzy that there is a proportional drop in their collective IQ. I stand by what I said about Kitnas skills. That's also why I'm a big advocate of keeping him after the season when I still think Palmer will be starting. Every team report says that Palmer is as advertised, and maybe a little more. He's #2 on the chart right now, and while coach Lewis says he isn't the obvious starter next year, economics says he is. Of course as soon as he threw a couple of int's, we'd have all those people screaming for Kitna again. A lot of teams would like to have our problem of having 2 quality qb's at the same time.The screaming never really stops, the names change that's all. Coach Lewis will most likely handle this in his own way and his own time. I don't always agree with his decisions, but he's usually right and I'm usually wrong. I guess that's why he gets to coach and I get to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted October 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 The screaming never really stopsYep, and as soon as a team loses the first time, the second string QB becomes the most popular player in town. I think Palmer will be starting at some point next year, and maybe even this year(man I hope not, cause we all know what that means) Of course it will be really hard to justify sitting Kitna down if he either leads the Bengals to the playoffs( good possibility) or he makes the probowl (an even stronger possibility)...I have to admit it's kinda nice to have this even being something worth talking about. I think how coach Lewis handles the Palmer/Kitna situation will really define his time as Bengals head coach simply because every other coach before him in the Mike Brown era couldn't handle the high draft QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 I have to admit it's kinda nice to have this even being something worth talking about. And that's the bottom line.How many teams in this league (hell, how many teams in our DIVISION) would give their best player's left gonad for one decent QB, let alone a solid starter and a Heismann Trophy-winning rookie at No. 2?For the first time in forever, the Bengals have no questions at QB. And for the first time in forever, there's actually hope of a good year. The two are not unrelated events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halp Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 i luv that gonad comment......maddox starterd hot anad is fadding.......kit, matthews and palmer....now that sounds pretty solid.....great maturity and leadership for the up and coming star.....credit where credit is due KITNA AND MATTHEWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noxiously Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 I don't want to sit here and say that I'm right or anyone else is wrong when I say this. Since the beginning of last year there was no doubt in my mind that Kitna should be the starter. I knew nothing about him before he came to the Bengals, just that he played for Seattle. Even though he is known for making big mistakes at the wrong times I still feel that he's our number 1 qb. I'm sure alot of you will agree with that. I still remember reading a statement that Kitna use to harp on the last two years, it was something in the likes of this "We need to keep everyone together and keep our system the same". He said this at one point when they was talking about benching him, I think. I couldn't agree with him any more though. I don't know about ya'll but it seemed to me that they was changing their game plan and qb's just about every year. I know their game plan is still pretty much the same, run left-run right-incomplete pass, they should still stick with the coaches and keep the starters together long enough to bond. One problem I do have though is they don't really seem to mix it up much. I never really see them do any flee flickers do you? Instead of running on first down all the time maybe toss in a play-action, they have the perfect running back for that. Seems that everyone knows when they're going to run and when they're going to pass. I'm sure you all noticed that too. What do you all think about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 One problem I do have though is they don't really seem to mix it up much. I never really see them do any flee flickers do you? Instead of running on first down all the time maybe toss in a play-action, they have the perfect running back for that. Seems that everyone knows when they're going to run and when they're going to pass. I'm sure you all noticed that too. What do you all think about it? In order to have the play action pass work, the other team has to believe that you really are going to run the ball. Until last week, they weren't generating enough of a running game to make it believeable. Ball handling in the backfield hasn't been one of Kitnas strengths either. The reverses have had some success, and I like the fact that they are getting the tight ends more involved. Marvin Lewis and Bob Bratkowski don't strike me as flea flicker play types. This goes in line with your last comment about how everybody seems to know when they're going to run and when they're going to throw. That's because they usually run on typical running downs and throw on the typical throwing downs. Coach Lewis and co. are ball control through better execution types. They tend to be more methodical. They don't really care if you know that they are going to run the ball because they believe that they can do it so well that you won't be able to stop it. Those types generally don't go in for what they consider to be trick plays. Out work. Out hit. Out play. Stay on your feet and finish... finish... finish. He's been preaching it since he got here, and it seems to be working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBrooks Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 Despite that, Kitna isn't close to being the best QB in football right now. Culpepper is a joke who can't hang onto the ball and Randy Moss can make almost any QB look spectacular. Look at Gus... Read my post clearly. I never said Kitna was the best QB in football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBrooks Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 Culpepper is a joke who can't hang onto the ball and Randy Moss can make almost any QB look spectacular. I totally agree about Moss...but a joke who can't hang onto the ball? Kitna was Mr. Turnover until late last year. He's turned it around.And so has Culpepper. Lots of fumbles, lots of picks last year. But only one int. thrown this year. That's not Moss' doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitnasBengals Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Oops. sorry about that, I tend to skim sometimes...Culpepper is still fumbling this year, but I have to admit he has improved in regards to his interceptions.Then again, he threw 2 in the Giants game (1 really, since the last throw didn't count) plus the fact he missed two games this year helps keep any potential interceptions he could of thrown down. Though he could of just as easily thrown TDs in those game, so it's a toss up.My point is though, he hasn't played enough this year to really show whether he has dramatically improved.If anyone has his fumbling numbers for the year I would like to know them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 One thing that has kind of been overlooked in the improvement Kitna has shown is the fact that he has a new QB coach. I like Ken Anderson and all and I think he deserves to be in the HOF, but as a QB coach he absolutely sucked. Zampese has been doing a helluva job with Kit, and Palmer(based on him moving up the depth chart and all that) and I think he should be getting some credit for the things the Bengals are doing offensively.cheers Check out NFL.com. Kirwans Unsung Heroes. #5 on his list is .............. you guessed it Ken Zampese. Says among other things that Kitnas performance and Plamers development are both credits to Zampese. Always nice to have one of your takes shared and confirmed by the pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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