futurebengal08 Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Good might be overstating it, but Kiewan could not even start on this team BEFORE we had the young talent here. We all know why - linebacker speed, couldn't even stick with slot receivers, etc. And I know the Colts defensive backs aren't exactly all-star caliber, but still..Does that not reveal a weakness in the coaches on this team? Yes, Bresnahan is gone, but it's not like Zimmer blew up his entire scheme. And anyway, ML is supposed to be the defensive mastermind on this team. IMO, this shows why this team will never be CONSISTENTLY competitive with Marvin at the helm. He can't motivate. And he can't fit a scheme to his players, and it's been shown over and over that he can't fit his players into a scheme.Why not evaluate the talent that we have, the PLAYERS that we have, and decide what kind of defense we can run? It's evident that this team will never be good under Marvin. He cannot exploit the talent in players the way that superior coaches (Tony Dungy) can.(of course, I realize this point is moot if the management is factored in)Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat1975 Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Good might be overstating it, but Kiewan could not even start on this team BEFORE we had the young talent here. We all know why - linebacker speed, couldn't even stick with slot receivers, etc. And I know the Colts defensive backs aren't exactly all-star caliber, but still..Does that not reveal a weakness in the coaches on this team? Yes, Bresnahan is gone, but it's not like Zimmer blew up his entire scheme. And anyway, ML is supposed to be the defensive mastermind on this team. IMO, this shows why this team will never be CONSISTENTLY competitive with Marvin at the helm. He can't motivate. And he can't fit a scheme to his players, and it's been shown over and over that he can't fit his players into a scheme.Why not evaluate the talent that we have, the PLAYERS that we have, and decide what kind of defense we can run? It's evident that this team will never be good under Marvin. He cannot exploit the talent in players the way that superior coaches (Tony Dungy) can.(of course, I realize this point is moot if the management is factored in)Thoughts?Ratliff isn't even the best example of who we have cut loose this year that has gone on to do well for another team.But look at the bright side...Mike Brown just saved a bunch of money on his car insurance by switching to Geico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAPPYJAQ Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 First post in a while....I think a lot of the roster moves in the past were based on what the staff's "expectations" of were for players, not performance based. Some of it is scheme, too. Keiwan came to the Bengals during a time where the Bengals wanted one-on-one cover corners and Keiwan was not that. Since entering the draft, he was always seen as a "Cover 2" corner due to pedestrian speed. For whatever reason, Marvin has been reluctant to use the "Cover 2" extensively, which is surprising as he signed Dexter Jackson and has always preached the "Interchangable S's" message. I thought that Keiwann was decent here, minus return ability. I always wondered why they didn't try him at S, since he was a good tackler with great ball skills, at times. What you're seeing is a player who is playing decent in a scheme that fits his ability. In regard to the others, I always keep an eye on this and there are many former Bengals who are doing better at other places since leaving the Bengals. Ratliff has played OK. O'Neal is terrible. Landon doesn't even get in games in CAR. Justin and Willie OK. Rudi terrible and coutless players like Schlegal and Caleb Miller not even in the league anymore. I think the Bengals have done a decent job evaluating NFL talent, which somehow hasn't translated to the draft, as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futurebengal08 Posted December 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 First post in a while....I think a lot of the roster moves in the past were based on what the staff's "expectations" of were for players, not performance based. Some of it is scheme, too. Keiwan came to the Bengals during a time where the Bengals wanted one-on-one cover corners and Keiwan was not that. Since entering the draft, he was always seen as a "Cover 2" corner due to pedestrian speed. For whatever reason, Marvin has been reluctant to use the "Cover 2" extensively, which is surprising as he signed Dexter Jackson and has always preached the "Interchangable S's" message. I thought that Keiwann was decent here, minus return ability. I always wondered why they didn't try him at S, since he was a good tackler with great ball skills, at times. What you're seeing is a player who is playing decent in a scheme that fits his ability. In regard to the others, I always keep an eye on this and there are many former Bengals who are doing better at other places since leaving the Bengals. Ratliff has played OK. O'Neal is terrible. Landon doesn't even get in games in CAR. Justin and Willie OK. Rudi terrible and coutless players like Schlegal and Caleb Miller not even in the league anymore. I think the Bengals have done a decent job evaluating NFL talent, which somehow hasn't translated to the draft, as a whole.I don't think Rudi is DOING terrible... he plays for a terrible team where not even a potential Pro-Bowl player (Kevin Smith) can do well. Kaesviharn is starting for the Saints. Regardless, Deltha is starting for a playoff team. Landon got injured in Carolina. I can't speak on JSmooth because I honestly have not heard anything from him all year. Willie is doing alright. Miller and Shlagle were just scrubs so they aren't even relevant (Miller a bad draft pick that the Bengals realized all too soon, Shlegle a player brought in because of injuries). Bottom line: this coaching staff cannot exploit talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 true, tho - Keiwan is a zone guy, and he was going to do better on any team where they play mostly zoneIndy plays mostly zoneso there you have itDraft players to match the scheme, please? (of course, these means not having a new D-Coord every freakin year) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 This thread is to painful to put much thought to. Are we really talking about players that no longer play for us and aren't doing anything more than being almost solid with another team ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidge Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Draft players to match the scheme, please?MADNESS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futurebengal08 Posted December 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 This thread is to painful to put much thought to. Are we really talking about players that no longer play for us and aren't doing anything more than being almost solid with another team ??Well I intended to highlight a trend on this team, using Keiwan as an example. Still weak, but talking about Mike Brown gets old... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 This thread is to painful to put much thought to. Are we really talking about players that no longer play for us and aren't doing anything more than being almost solid with another team ??I'd love to have some almost solid players at this pointWouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I hate the same conversation as well and am NOT trying to bash in the least. My point is, when those players were here, some did well, some didn't. Now that they are gone, I think Ratliff is the only one who is doing half way decent. My point is, only in this clusterf*ck of a season would we be looking at players who no longer play for us, aren't doing sh*t, and claim how much they are missed by the Bengals. You could argue that some players do better when they leave, but you could argue equally about the ones who go on to do worse or at least no better...Like I said, painful !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futurebengal08 Posted December 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I hate the same conversation as well and am NOT trying to bash in the least. My point is, when those players were here, some did well, some didn't. Now that they are gone, I think Ratliff is the only one who is doing half way decent. My point is, only in this clusterf*ck of a season would we be looking at players who no longer play for us, aren't doing sh*t, and claim how much they are missed by the Bengals. You could argue that some players do better when they leave, but you could argue equally about the ones who go on to do worse or at least no better...Like I said, painful !!!Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePong Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Gee, it's amazing how much a pass rush can help a corner, huh?It takes 11 guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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