June 1st

[JPW]

"-- -- -- Here are three interesting names who figure to come free after June 1: linebackers Ted Johnson of New England and Jason Gildon of Pittsburgh; and wide receiver David Terrell, of Chicago.

Johnson, 34, has age and injuries working against him, but might be worth a stopgap for a team desperate for a veteran help in the middle of its defense.

Gildon, who will turn 32 in July, isn't the player he was a few years ago, either, but would still make for a good third-down pass rusher, if nothing else.

Terrell is still young at 25, but never made it in Chicago. Then again, he didn't exactly play with Joe Montana at quarterback, or have Andy Reid calling his plays.

A change of venue could make Terrell a post-June 1 steal.

-- -- -- One player who may not come free after June 1, as was widely anticipated, is running back Eddie George.

Tennessee is working on a deal with George to reduce his contract, but to keep him around for a few more years.

It would not be the worst thing in the world to see George finish his brilliant career with the same team.

-- -- -- Green Bay is one team talking to defensive end Kenny Holmes, who was released by the Giants in a salary-cap move.

Holmes did not live up to his big contract with the Giants, but he is a solid defensive end who has always been a major help to the end on the other side.

Jevon Kearse had his best seasons in Tennessee with Holmes on the other side, and Michael Strahan's best seasons also came after Holmes arrived.

It might just be coincidence, but Kearse had 26 sacks in the two seasons he played opposite Holmes. And 21 in the three seasons after Holmes left.

Strahan's career looked on the downside, with a total of 15 sacks in 1999 and 2000. Holmes came to the Giants in 2001, and Strahan broke the NFL record with 22 1/2 sacks.

Mark Eckel is a Times staff writer. Opinions and comments are welcomed at sports@NJTimes.com. "

[daredevil25]

Holmes sound really interesting for our (Falcons) perspective, but I doubt we go after him. We desperately need a run stuffing DT, something we haven't had since 98'.

[JPW]

Yea Holmes is the main reason I bothered to make the post.

I think that a run stuffing DL is going to be hard to come by at this point.

But I wish you guys GL on it.

[daredevil25]

Thanks man, best of luck to you guys as well. I'm tellin you, 2006 Falcons vs. Bengals in the SB (other than they play each other that year anyways, lol)

[JPW]

I would love to have the Bengals meet your guys in the Big Bowl.

And we just might be there in 05 !

[Barbarian]

Thanks man, best of luck to you guys as well. I'm tellin you, 2006 Falcons vs. Bengals in the SB (other than they play each other that year anyways, lol)

Mr. DareDevil, I must tell you this--Atlanta isn't going to any Super Bowl while Mike Vick is at QB. I'll tell you why:

1. He's overrated. The Running QB's like Vick, McNabb, McNair, Flutie--THEY'RE ALL OVERRATED!!! Sure, he may be the most exciting player in the NFL to watch--BECAUSE OF HIS FOOT SPEED. However, his arm and decision-making skills are extremely overrated.

2. Mike Vick takes off wayyyy too quickly. He doesn't give the play time to develop. He may learn this as he matures. See Steve McNair.

3. His arm strength is there--but his passing accuracy is horrid.

4. See Randall Cunningham--Mike Vick (if he continues to play the way he does) will always be injured. QBs are not meant to take hits like a RB.

5. Atlanta's Front Office thinks that Mike Vick will take them over the top. He's got no Offensive Firepower that supports him. No supporting cast = NO SUPER BOWL. Peerless Price is an above average receiver. Vick needs more help. An offensive line would probably help as well.

So, I think in 2006, you better look elsewhere for Super Bowl contenders. Cincinnati needs more than a 2-year progression in my book. If Michael Brown doesn't get in the way, then I would say that a 2008 Super Bowl for Marvin Lewis would be about right--that is--if Marvin stays around for that long.

[halp]

barbarian....damn son, i still can't figure you out. felt you had to be a vick fan. i agree with all you have to say on this issue. the running QB just ain't gona' get it. too many hits, that's why running backs don't last. he needs more support and can't carry the team. ie elway in the early years.

[jditty47]

yep i agree with everything barbarian said...vick is completely overrated and i argue about him all the time to co-workers.

[JPW]

Mike Vick has "said" that he will be staying in the pocket this year.

We will see if he can keep his "happy feet" still when the pressure is on.

[daredevil25]

How did this become a Vick thread I don't know, but anyways I'm glad that our running QB has one of the best OL coaches in history tutoring his line, a new system that doesn't need him to run to work, playing a system that produced Jeff Garcia from CFL fodder, to NFL elite. Yeah, I mean, no QB can ever change, that's just impossible, it can't happen Steve McNair would have never changed from a running QB to co-NFL MVP, since no QB can change, that's just how it goes. And just to break your arguments:

1. He's overrated. The Running QB's like Vick, McNabb, McNair, Flutie--THEY'RE ALL OVERRATED!!! Sure, he may be the most exciting player in the NFL to watch--BECAUSE OF HIS FOOT SPEED. However, his arm and decision-making skills are extremely overrated.

-Who's doing the overrating? ESPN overrates anyone that gives them highlights, that's it. No knowledgeable football fan puts Vick as the best QB which they reserve for Brady, Manning and McNair. Since you consider McNair overrated I question the validity of your argument past this point. You then mention Vick's arm is overrated which is the silliest thing I've ever heard. His decision making, well lets see, a 2:1 career INT to TD ratio is pretty darn good if I must say so. He's not an accurate QB, needs to work on touch routes and timing patterns, something he's terrible at right now. That's reality.

2. Mike Vick takes off wayyyy too quickly. He doesn't give the play time to develop. He may learn this as he matures. See Steve McNair.

-So, how many times did Vick take off because he had to, and wanted to? When our other QBs who were both pocket passers, but had unusually high rushing attempts, that tells me the line had a big factor in it. Going out and getting Alex Gibbs wasn't a move we made because the line was "satisfactory". Vick does take off too much, I want to see the carries go down, but seeing how our WR unit is one of the league's worst and our offensive line as well, I can understand that many of those carries were in necessity, not will.

3. His arm strength is there--but his passing accuracy is horrid.

-Wait a second, his arm was just overrated, now its "there" . I already said his passing accuracy is not in any way acceptable. Yet again, the basis of our offense is completions. That's something Vick has worked incredibly hard at doing (showing that he is taking strives to be a better QB)

4. See Randall Cunningham--Mike Vick (if he continues to play the way he does) will always be injured. QBs are not meant to take hits like a RB.

-So you judge him, off two years as a starting QB. Whoa, that's all I can say. Going off Chad Johnson's first seasons, he looked like another Jacquez Green, now he's one of the NFL's best WRs.

5. Atlanta's Front Office thinks that Mike Vick will take them over the top. He's got no Offensive Firepower that supports him. No supporting cast = NO SUPER BOWL. Peerless Price is an above average receiver. Vick needs more help. An offensive line would probably help as well.

-This entire post made me fall out of my seat laughing. Earlier I did a detailed review on how to beat Vick and you couldn't even follow up w/ an intelligent post, you did a token "Vick sucks" type of post. Lets see, the team went out and got Alex Gibbs to coach the offensive line. Alex Gibbs, the creator of Denver's line which the skeleton is still potent and used in Denver. The team went out and got Dez White to give more depth to the WRs, and traded up to Michael Jenkins in the draft. Roy Williams was also one of the top players on the Falcons draft board. The team has a Pro Bowl TE in Alge Crumpler who's looked at as one of the NFL's best behind Gonzo, Heap, and Shockey. They also gave him a tandem of RBs that now have an offensive line coach that believes fully in the run and each can be effective in the system. Oh yeah, I forgot, they went out got a GM (something we were w/o for nearly 5 years), hired a new coach that wasn't like a leech living off a player's health (see Jamal Anderson and John Elway) and went out and sought better players to fix the league's worst defense.

You basically, know nothing about the Falcons just ran your mouth because you don't like Vick. I came into this thread just to find what the DT's name was because I couldn't recall it, and I find its turned into a Vick thread I apologize to JPW that a thread, that could have been useful turned into a bash on a player from another team.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I will say that in my opinion Vick is one of the most dangerous and exciting to watch QB's in the league. To defense him personally, opposing teams assign at least one player, usually a speedy linebacker or safety (or BOTH!) who's job is specifically to contain Micheal from taking off on one of his 30+ yard scrambles. The defense's plan is to make him beat you with his arm, not let him get into the open field.

I'm not familiar with the Falcons recieving corps, but it seems to me if he could have some consistently open targets to throw to, his effectiveness would double!

[daredevil25]

I will say that in my opinion Vick is one of the most dangerous and exciting to watch QB's in the league. To defense him personally, opposing teams assign at least one player, usually a speedy linebacker or safety (or BOTH!) who's job is specifically to contain Micheal from taking off on one of his 30+ yard scrambles. The defense's plan is to make him beat you with his arm, not let him get into the open field.

I'm not familiar with the Falcons recieving corps, but it seems to me if he could have some consistently open targets to throw to, his effectiveness would double!

Billybroome, only because you don't know I'll just answer that our WRs this season (probable order) will be Peerless Price, Michael Jenkins, Dez White, Brian Finneran and Terrance Edwards. Not to mention we still have Alge Crumpler, Warrick Dunn and Justin Griffith in the backfield receiving.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Peerless Price, Michael Jenkins and Terrance Edwards

These names sound familiar, especially Price. How many people are named "Peerless?"

[JPW]

Well ya know, sometimes a thread will take on a life of it's own.

Don't be offended with Barbarian, it is just his style to shout a lot.

Seems that we all agree that Vick is one of the most exciting players to watch.

I mean it is flat out Fun to watch him play.

But it is a good point about running QBs and injuries.

I may be showing my age here, but the Bengals lost one of their best QBs ever (Greg Cook) because he loved to take off running when nobody was open.

Hopefully Vick has learned his lession and will pick the right times to use his running skills in the future.

If he has I really think that, the best is yet to come from him.

To get back to thinking about June 1st, there is another DE that I didn't mention.

Joe Johnson...

They say that his rehab has gone well, he could have good year or two in him ?

[daredevil25]

I just found an article on Yahoo about June 1 cuts, here it is:

More big names to hit the market

By BARRY WILNER, AP Football Writer

May 31, 2004

NEW YORK (AP) -- Now the bargain hunting starts.

Beginning Tuesday, Kurt Warner, Eddie George, Rich Gannon and Larry Allen and other aging, high-priced stars are likely to become available simply because they're aging and high-priced.

On June 1, teams can cut veterans who are under contract and spread the salary cap hit over two years. This offseason already has been incredibly active, and now the bargain shopping starts.

Yes, a pair of league MVPs, Warner and Gannon, might come far more cheaply than anyone would have imagined a year ago. Warner lost his quarterback job in St. Louis to Marc Bulger and the Rams have made it clear he no longer is in their plans. Gannon comes off shoulder surgery, and with the Raiders signing Kerry Collins last week, there might not be a place for him in Oakland -- even with all the supportive quotes coming out of Raiders camp.

George no longer is at his peak and the Titans would like to give Chris Brown a bigger role, so Tennessee could release its longtime offensive force. George's production has declined recently and he refused to rework his contract in February, although he got a $1 million roster bonus in March.

``If it's obvious to me I can't accept it, I can't accept it,'' he says. ``If it's workable and we can work something out over a long-term period, that's fine.

``I'll be happy and move on, come back here and help this team win.''

Allen, one of the best offensive linemen of the last decade, is not a favorite of Cowboys coach Bill Parcells. Parcells even told Allen to skip the team's offseason conditioning program, although he also said he expects Allen to be in training camp.

That easily could be another team's training camp.

Others expected to be seeking employment in new environs include Browns quarterback Tim Couch; Steelers linebacker Jason Gildon; Packers cornerback Mike McKenzie; Redskins linebacker Jeremiah Trotter; and 49ers safety Zach Bronson.

In recent years, the Patriots have been especially adept at mining the second wave of free agency for help. They picked up Antowain Smith and Roman Phifer, among others, and, by the way, have won two of the last three Super Bowls.

``It's as important an element as any other in developing a roster,'' Patriots player personnel director Scott Pioli says. ``As an organization, you look for every avenue to improve your team, and we've spent a great deal of time and energy on it.''

Much energy has been spent trading, releasing and signing players since free agency opened three months ago. The frenzy began even before free agency opened when Washington and Denver agreed on a rare trade involving Pro Bowl players. The Redskins sent cornerback Champ Bailey to the Broncos for running back Clinton Portis.

As usually happens in such a copycat league, more trades followed, with such big names as Keyshawn Johnson, Corey Dillon, Joey Galloway, Mark Brunell and David Boston changing teams.

Add that to the normal plethora of free-agent signings and few days have gone by without some notable personnel move.

Consider that the following players have changed addresses through free agency or after being released: Warren Sapp, John Lynch, Jeff Garcia, Troy Vincent, Jevon Kearse, Charlie Garner, Antoine Winfield, Marcellus Wiley, Damien Woody, Tai Streets and Collins.

Plus Shawn Springs, Ted Washington, Duce Staley, Deon Grant, Carlos Emmons, Ron Stone, Ruben Brown, Todd Wade, Robaire Smith, Ian Gold, Eric Barton, Grant Wistrom and John Tait.

That doesn't even take into account the strange case of Terrell Owens, San Francisco's star wideout who was so disgruntled with the 49ers he made it clear he would not return after last season.

Then his agent failed to file the proper papers and Owens still belonged to the 49ers -- for another three years at far less than he would have earned on the open market.

The 49ers eventually traded him to Baltimore after a deal with Philadelphia, Owens' preferred destination, fell through. It was not until a compromise was reached that Owens wound up with the Eagles.

But that was typical of this outrageous offseason in which one team, the Bears, has shed itself of half its starting lineup, and seven new coaching staffs were hired.

And training camps don't open for nearly two more months.

[BengalszoneBilly]

And training camps don't open for nearly two more months.

You could have omitted that part of the article!

[schweinhart]

To get back to thinking about June 1st, there is another DE that I didn't mention.

Joe Johnson...

They say that his rehab has gone well, he could have good year or two in him ?

The DEs are slim pickings at this point. Johnson's been around as long as the last of the UFAs like Chidi Ahanotu, Rob Burnett, Anthony Pleasant, and Chad Bratzke.

The Pack seem likely to cut Johnson but I can't see him being much more than Clemons, who proved he can do some things besides being too slow, getting washed out too easily, and looking like a fool on reverses.