Anyone else worried about the "New" running game?

[walzav29]

I'm all for the commitment to run it, but it's the same personel as last year. The coaches all seem confident, but I know that after a couple of 3 and out series we'll all be yelling to go to the run-n-shoot. I just don't see what big change they are expecting. How can you rely on Perry, Johnson or DeDe to be healthy. I don't think Watson is more than a backup. Little nervous.

[Walrus]

I'm all for the commitment to run it, but it's the same personel as last year. The coaches all seem confident, but I know that after a couple of 3 and out series we'll all be yelling to go to the run-n-shoot. I just don't see what big change they are expecting. How can you rely on Perry, Johnson or DeDe to be healthy. I don't think Watson is more than a backup. Little nervous.

Brat doesn't even mention Perry in Hob's latest article where he is interviewed extensively about his plans for the running game. I don't know how that could be a simple oversight...

[JoePong]

The fact is, we don't have a top notch RB. But we have run the ball very successfully in the past with the same RBs. And don't give me any of this crap about Rudi being washd up. Everyone know I have never been a big fan of Rudi, but he's the same player he was when he was putting up good numbers. I love how everyone thinks he suddenly started sucking, just because they thought he was such a stud a couple years ago. He is the same player people- he just never was as good as all you people made him out to be. The biggest problem has been injuries and shuffling of the O-Line, along with inuries. If we are healthy, we will be fine. Rudi will never be elite, but he will put up exactly the same performances as he did when he was breaking franchise rushing records.

However, at some point, to take this team to the next level, we will need a top notch RB. Which is why I would have had no problem taking mendenhall in the draft if we had opted.

[JoePong]

I'm all for the commitment to run it, but it's the same personel as last year. The coaches all seem confident, but I know that after a couple of 3 and out series we'll all be yelling to go to the run-n-shoot. I just don't see what big change they are expecting. How can you rely on Perry, Johnson or DeDe to be healthy. I don't think Watson is more than a backup. Little nervous.

Brat doesn't even mention Perry in Hob's latest article where he is interviewed extensively about his plans for the running game. I don't know how that could be a simple oversight...

He won't start talking about Perry until he returns to practice.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

The fact is, we don't have a top notch RB. But we have run the ball very successfully in the past with the same RBs. And don't give me any of this crap about Rudi being washd up. Everyone know I have never been a big fan of Rudi, but he's the same player he was when he was putting up good numbers.

And you know I've always liked Rudi, but he's not the same guy. He's older. And whether this is the year he goes downhill or not, it will happen soon.

I do think that the O-line was responsible for a lot of the running problems, with no evidence of improvement this year, unfortunately.

[jhobbs88@msn.com]

Ok right now the Bengals upper office has NOT brought in new legs (old or young) to run the ball. Fine it is what it is... Why is Rudi given the "silver platter" as the #1 back. 2006 and before how many 15yard carries did he have? How many times watching other backs on other teams did you see them breaking a big gainer? This was times Rudi was healthy.

Last year I saw Watson make some plays along with Dorsey. Perry up in the air on that one.

Why not go into camp saying each one of you has brought something to the table. #1 back is open best back in camp gets the spot.

Just do not see why the red carpet is rolled out for rj

[JoePong]

The fact is, we don't have a top notch RB. But we have run the ball very successfully in the past with the same RBs. And don't give me any of this crap about Rudi being washd up. Everyone know I have never been a big fan of Rudi, but he's the same player he was when he was putting up good numbers.

And you know I've always liked Rudi, but he's not the same guy. He's older. And whether this is the year he goes downhill or not, it will happen soon.

I do think that the O-line was responsible for a lot of the running problems, with no evidence of improvement this year, unfortunately.

Yeah, the fact that both our starting tackles were cripples last year, Whit was shuffled around between tackles and guard, and e had st start Stepanovich at center at times didn't hurt anything at all...

I see a ton of improvement this year with everyone being healthy.

[JoePong]

The fact is, we don't have a top notch RB. But we have run the ball very successfully in the past with the same RBs. And don't give me any of this crap about Rudi being washd up. Everyone know I have never been a big fan of Rudi, but he's the same player he was when he was putting up good numbers.

And you know I've always liked Rudi, but he's not the same guy. He's older. And whether this is the year he goes downhill or not, it will happen soon.

Yep. Rudi Johnson has played what, about 4 years of NFL football? Dude must have nothing left!

[JoePong]

For comparison's sake:

Rudi is 28 with about 1,400 career carries.

Ladainian Tomlinson is the same age and has 2,300+ carries.

Clinton Portis has over 1,700 carries.

Edgerrin James is just a year older than Rudi and has twice as many career carries - over 2,800!

[Kazkal]

Well atleast they acknowledge a guy like DEDE needs to get the ball more,But I'm sad to see Rudi pretty much handed the starting job

Even with the 2005 line rudi still ran in to people his field vision is bleh. I've been on kenny watsons case alot in the past but I truthfully think he should get a chance at starting job.

[fattyjay]

For comparison's sake:

Rudi is 28 with about 1,400 career carries.

Ladainian Tomlinson is the same age and has 2,300+ carries.

Clinton Portis has over 1,700 carries.

Edgerrin James is just a year older than Rudi and has twice as many career carries - over 2,800!

The only problem here is that you are comparing Rudi to actual franchise RB's. Rudi was a backup for a couple of years before he became the starter (by default).

[JoePong]

For comparison's sake:

Rudi is 28 with about 1,400 career carries.

Ladainian Tomlinson is the same age and has 2,300+ carries.

Clinton Portis has over 1,700 carries.

Edgerrin James is just a year older than Rudi and has twice as many career carries - over 2,800!

The only problem here is that you are comparing Rudi to actual franchise RB's. Rudi was a backup for a couple of years before he became the starter (by default).

I know. I have been tryin to tell people al a long that Rudi is not that great. But he is still the same player as he was before. He is not washed up by any means. It was a simple combination of injuries to him and the O-Line that has caused his struggles. When Rudi was having his great seasons, I said at the time that we need to upgrade the RB position for this offense to reach its full potential becasue Rudi is limited. Everyone said I was crazy. But those people who were satisfied with Rudi back then should still be satisfied with him now. He is the same player. That's my only point.

[gregstephens]

For comparison's sake:

Rudi is 28 with about 1,400 career carries.

Ladainian Tomlinson is the same age and has 2,300+ carries.

Clinton Portis has over 1,700 carries.

Edgerrin James is just a year older than Rudi and has twice as many career carries - over 2,800!

The only problem here is that you are comparing Rudi to actual franchise RB's. Rudi was a backup for a couple of years before he became the starter (by default).

My only potential disagreement with you on this post is the statement that Rudi became starter by default. I believe the reason the Bengals agreed to trade Dillon was because they thought they had the next franchise running back in Johnson which, for a couple of years anyway, proved to be the case. It wasn't as if Dillon's contract was up and he was definitely going. They traded him thinking the next six to eight years were taken care of.

[bengalsfansince68]

But those people who were satisfied with Rudi back then should still be satisfied with him now.

Those who bash Rudi now are quite simply short-sighted people who cannot see anything beyond the results. Rudi was a top 10 back for 3 years and one down year does not diminish that for me.

Rudi was injured last year...

The line was injured and in flux all of last year...

But, the most important factor to me was Bratkowski's ass-backward way of using the run game last year. It was pass on first down and run on second, 80% of the offensive series.

Ass phucking backwards. Look at the games where Brat used a run first philosophy. Kenny went off for big yards and we blew the Jets and Titans out.

I was so hoping that Bratkowski would be out and an OC who understands that the run should always be the 1st option would be brought in. I hope he finally gets it but I am not expecting that he will.

Establish the rush game first and it and the passing game will flourish.

[JoePong]

I don't know. You have to mix it up. Whenever we run Rudi on 1st down, all we do is end up with 2nd and long and we are forced to pass

[JoePong]

Establish the rush game first and it and the passing game will flourish.

That's great. Problem is we couldn't establish any runing game. While our running game was getting stuffed early in the game and we continually had 3 and outs, the opposing team was putting up points and we were falling too far behind to stick with nonexistent running game.

[bengalsfansince68]

I don't know. You have to mix it up. Whenever we run Rudi on 1st down, all we do is end up with 2nd and long and we are forced to pass

It's true that you do have to mix it up and Bobo was the most predictable OC I've ever seen. '05 was the year where Brat used the run a lot on 1st down and Rudi ripped off a lot of 8 or 9 yard runs leaving us with 2nd and short, which opens up the whole playbook. You do have to establish a balance between run/pass. Bratkowski tried to go with Carson Chad and TJ and little else. It ain't ever gonna work that way. If the backers and safeties have to respect the run and defend the line of scrimmage, Carson will burn them to a crisp.

It's my opinion, but...

Run the got damned football.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

The fact is, we don't have a top notch RB. But we have run the ball very successfully in the past with the same RBs. And don't give me any of this crap about Rudi being washd up. Everyone know I have never been a big fan of Rudi, but he's the same player he was when he was putting up good numbers.

And you know I've always liked Rudi, but he's not the same guy. He's older. And whether this is the year he goes downhill or not, it will happen soon.

Yep. Rudi Johnson has played what, about 4 years of NFL football? Dude must have nothing left!

You laugh, but research the average effective life of an NFL running back, especially a between the tackles guy, and I bet you'll find it's about 4 years. He'll turn 29 this year, and by 30 most RBs are well below their peak productivity. You can easily find counterexamples, but a whole lot of backs get beat up early and their bodies pay the price. See Campbell, Earl.

Most RBs are at their most effective within their first couple years in the league. It's just a fact.

Like I said, I don't know if this is the year Rudi heads south, or if he's got 2 more good years left, but that's sort of the window we're looking at.

[GregCook]

But those people who were satisfied with Rudi back then should still be satisfied with him now.

Those who bash Rudi now are quite simply short-sighted people who cannot see anything beyond the results. Rudi was a top 10 back for 3 years and one down year does not diminish that for me.

Rudi was injured last year...

The line was injured and in flux all of last year...

But, the most important factor to me was Bratkowski's ass-backward way of using the run game last year. It was pass on first down and run on second, 80% of the offensive series.

Ass phucking backwards. Look at the games where Brat used a run first philosophy. Kenny went off for big yards and we blew the Jets and Titans out.

I was so hoping that Bratkowski would be out and an OC who understands that the run should always be the 1st option would be brought in. I hope he finally gets it but I am not expecting that he will.

Establish the rush game first and it and the passing game will flourish.

Without Chad, the running game will be much tougher to establish than last year.

The running game can only be a factor this year if play calling is more unpredictable on 1st and 2ed down, assuming Chad isn't on the team. Two wideout sets where one is a rookie, just won't cut it as 8-9 guys will play near the line depending if the defense wants to double team TJ(something I'd do in obvious passing downs).

The Bengals will need to have 1st & 2ed down looks with 3 or 4 possible targets for Carson. Utecht could be a real big addition here as he can block or catch. Getting the rookies to block will also be huge. Since our running game sucked last year with Chad commanding double teams, it will be challenged this year when safeties play up instead of back. I don't see any new legs back there either.

[bengalsfansince68]

That's great. Problem is we couldn't establish any runing game. While our running game was getting stuffed early in the game and we continually had 3 and outs, the opposing team was putting up points and we were falling too far behind to stick with nonexistent running game.

To me Joe, the biggest problem was incomplete passes on 1st down and then run on 2nd. Far too much.

That's what left us with so many 3rd and longs. The defenses played the pass and ignored the run because they knew the pass was coming. Jesus H. Christ himself could not make the passing game work when all of the defenders are flooding the passing lanes because they knew we would not run it.

Yes, you have to mix it up some, but the ground game should be the first option and with our predictable play calling the defenses did not have to defend the line of scrimmage.

I was down here in Houston for most of Earl Campbell's career and many times Earl would put up little production in the first quarter. They kept feeding him the rock and frequently he would finish with 150 + yards and 3 TDs. You don't abandon the run simply because it is not working initially. If you fall behind three TDs then you might have to go pass happy, but the Bengals get behind a field goal and completely abandon half of the playbook.

Whether or not anybody on these boards, or Bratkowski himself, recognizes it, running the football is integral to making an offense go. Brat surely did not get it in '07 and that more than anything else is the reason for Carson's off year in '07.

[Walrus]

For comparison's sake:

Rudi is 28 with about 1,400 career carries.

Ladainian Tomlinson is the same age and has 2,300+ carries.

Clinton Portis has over 1,700 carries.

Edgerrin James is just a year older than Rudi and has twice as many career carries - over 2,800!

All RBs with a lot of miles on their tires. LT still looks great, but he is also already talking about retirement (per PFT). Portis and James have started to look like they're on the downsides of their careers as well.

Fact is, Rudi might be fine this year. I hope that happens. But I'm not sure why I should be confident that it will happen. Last offseason we had a healthy Rudi, steady as they come, a newly re-signed Kenny, a newly drafted Kenny, and expectations that Chris P would be back mid-season. And we all know how well that turned out.

Well, maybe adding a pass-catching TE will magically open up the running game like Brat says. Given our luck in drafting RBs maybe it's time to try a less direct approach.

[bengalsfansince68]

Without Chad, the running game will be much tougher to establish than last year.

Two wideout sets where one is a rookie, just won't cut it as 8-9 guys will play near the line depending if the defense wants to double team TJ(something I'd do in obvious passing downs).

If I'm the OC, I force the defense to respect the run and I dare them to stack 8 or 9 guys in the box.

Irrespective of the WRs, Carson will have a field day shredding the defense under those circumstances.

I could replace Chad with Danny Farmer if the defense has to defend the run. Carson is far too good to stack that many guys in the box. The defenses know that they have to account for Carson. Force them to account for the run and Carson will be high on the list for MVP with whomever the WRs might be.

The rush game is far more important than princess chad can ever be.

[cincyhokie]

I'm worried more about the OL, and specifically the center position, than I am the running game. Since Braham left this has not been the same team.

[JoePong]

The problem last year was not that we didn't try to run the ball. The problem was that we couldn't.

[kingwilly]

For comparison's sake:

Rudi is 28 with about 1,400 career carries.

Ladainian Tomlinson is the same age and has 2,300+ carries.

Clinton Portis has over 1,700 carries.

Edgerrin James is just a year older than Rudi and has twice as many career carries - over 2,800!

All RBs with a lot of miles on their tires. LT still looks great, but he is also already talking about retirement (per PFT). Portis and James have started to look like they're on the downsides of their careers as well.

Fact is, Rudi might be fine this year. I hope that happens. But I'm not sure why I should be confident that it will happen. Last offseason we had a healthy Rudi, steady as they come, a newly re-signed Kenny, a newly drafted Kenny, and expectations that Chris P would be back mid-season. And we all know how well that turned out.

Well, maybe adding a pass-catching TE will magically open up the running game like Brat says. Given our luck in drafting RBs maybe it's time to try a less direct approach.

I hope Rudi can resurrect his 04/05 form...but I seriously doubt it. He has NO cut. He has NO elusiveness...aks yourself when the last time was you can recall seeing Rudi either run over someone or make them miss.....tick, tick, tick....pretty tough to recall.

He shuffles and sputters. Injury aside, he looked like this at the end of 06. The line was substandard in 07, yes but that has nothing to do with Rudi. Watson and DeDe gained positive yards behind that line with superior speed, moves, vision and burst...all things Rudi lacks. Why he lacks that is irrelevant. Who cares why. Carries, injuries, too little body fat, had a bad burrito, stayed up too late watching Skinemax...it does not matter. Bottom line is RJ is in decline.

For brat to "name" RJ the guy is just plain ignorant.