Talk about drafting an OL!

[Clackwoods]

How's it going? I have been reading a lot on these threads about drafting an OL with our top pick. In my opinion this is one of the most rediculous things I have ever heard. Think about this, the year we went to the playoffs it is because our defense didn't completly suck. There is no way that we don't draft defense in round one this year. We have Levi(I know he has a bum knee), Willie(Also injured), the nine million dollar man, and whitworth. There is a ton of money tied up in the offensive tackle position and I just don't seeing the team bringing in another big money offensive tackle. Even if Levi and Willie don't play we could start Whitworth and Andrews and draft a gaurd with one of our third rounders. Does anyone agree?

Draft: I really hope we get Dorsey, the guy is a savage and I think he will have a better career than Ellis. Mcfadden would be nice, but only if the top defensive players are gone. If worst comes to worst we will have to settle for Rivers. If we really need a running back lets get the fastest guy in the draft with our second rounder

[PhunkE1]

All the talk of O-line just basically says that we can't count on Levi. Willie has 2 more years at best. We have to protect our franchise player Carson Palmer. If both DT's are gone I think O-Line makes the most sense. You can't have too many good O-Lineman. If McFadden is there hopefully we can trade down, but I doubt he'll be there.

[cincy9275]

any move that helps protect carson palmer is a good move. just see our last playoff game for proof of that. then if the top 6 are gone, both longs, gholston, dorsey, ellis, mcfadden. which they will be then we need to trade down. rivers should not be picked just because he is there. a lot of people think that rivers was not even the best lb on his team and he is the default top lb because the other top tier lb's decided to stay for their senior year. nothing against him but he is not a top ten pick nor is he worth the money that comes with that pick. the consensus around here is trade down, trade down, then trade down again. get as many picks as we can.

[bengalsfansince68]

I have been reading a lot on these threads about drafting an OL with our top pick. In my opinion this is one of the most rediculous things I have ever heard.

With all due respect Mr. Clack, that seems awfully short-sighted.

The O-line is arguably the most important unit on any football team. A really good O-line can make a good RB a great one. They keep evil players like Kimo away from the QB. O-line should be upgraded in some way in every draft.

I agree with your point that we have a lot of money invested in the line already, but, much of it is invested in two guys who have been breaking down physically for a while now. I love Willie and I wish that he could play at a high level for another five years. The fact, however, is that Willie had a long period of time to heal and he didn't. Last year, Willie and Levi could not practice more than they could. Both missed a lot of time.

I am one of the most positive-minded guys here, but look at the worst case scenario. What if Willie and Levi never get healthy and return to form? What then? I'll tell you what. If those two guys can't produce on the field, our Super Bowl window closes.

I never have a problem adding stud linemen anywhere in the draft.

[GregCook]

How's it going? I have been reading a lot on these threads about drafting an OL with our top pick. In my opinion this is one of the most rediculous things I have ever heard. Think about this, the year we went to the playoffs it is because our defense didn't completly suck. There is no way that we don't draft defense in round one this year. We have Levi(I know he has a bum knee), Willie(Also injured), the nine million dollar man, and whitworth. There is a ton of money tied up in the offensive tackle position and I just don't seeing the team bringing in another big money offensive tackle. Even if Levi and Willie don't play we could start Whitworth and Andrews and draft a gaurd with one of our third rounders. Does anyone agree?

Draft: I really hope we get Dorsey, the guy is a savage and I think he will have a better career than Ellis. Mcfadden would be nice, but only if the top defensive players are gone. If worst comes to worst we will have to settle for Rivers. If we really need a running back lets get the fastest guy in the draft with our second rounder

There is an old saying, "you can't have to much life insurance", especially when the old man croaks.

Same for Carson Palmer and his 100 million dollar arm. Fact is OT is one of the most highly skilled, highly paid positions in the NFL. If a team can forsee an imminent need and can draft a top talent, well they better have a good reason not to take the talent. DT's aren't as highly rated in the NFL as OTs.

The Bengals will be paying a huge amount of money at #9, the most they will owe since Carson Palmer in 2003. They had better pick the Best Player Available(subject to common sense). If they end up with choices that can't help the team, then trade down if possible. Fortunately in this draft, they will have plenty to pick from that will address areas of burning need.

Such as DT, RB, OT. Hopefully when #9 is called, the Best Player Available on their draft board will be one of those three positions.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Didja *see* our O-line last year? It sucked. Carson's ability to read pressure masked it somewhat, but there were too many times he had to go to his hot read as opposed to the primary receiver. The line's woes were much more evident in the running game, which was not entirely Rudi's fault. Even if Willie cheats the grim reaper for another year or two, we could use a stud OT. Because no matter how much of the Bengals corporate kool-aid I drink, I'm still not seeing Stacey Andrews as a franchise OT.

I think DL is clearly the preferred pick, but what do you do if those guys are all off the board and a stud OT is sitting there? Do you reach for some undersized Caleb Miller impersonator, or do you lock up the guy who will keep Dr. James Andrews out of Carson's quick-dial list?

Me, I don't even blink if Dorsey or Ellis is on the board, I grab either one. Or li'l Howie, but he'll be gone. Otherwise, if the best player available is an O-lineman, I don't have a problem with that.

[bengalsfansince68]

Do you reach for some undersized Caleb Miller impersonator, or do you lock up the guy who will keep Dr. James Andrews out of Carson's quick-dial list?

That's f*cking great, DC.

Caleb Miller impersonator, HAHA!

[Clackwoods]

I have been reading a lot on these threads about drafting an OL with our top pick. In my opinion this is one of the most rediculous things I have ever heard.

With all due respect Mr. Clack, that seems awfully short-sighted.

The O-line is arguably the most important unit on any football team. A really good O-line can make a good RB a great one. They keep evil players like Kimo away from the QB. O-line should be upgraded in some way in every draft.

I agree with your point that we have a lot of money invested in the line already, but, much of it is invested in two guys who have been breaking down physically for a while now. I love Willie and I wish that he could play at a high level for another five years. The fact, however, is that Willie had a long period of time to heal and he didn't. Last year, Willie and Levi could not practice more than they could. Both missed a lot of time.

I am one of the most positive-minded guys here, but look at the worst case scenario. What if Willie and Levi never get healthy and return to form? What then? I'll tell you what. If those two guys can't produce on the field, our Super Bowl window closes.

I never have a problem adding stud linemen anywhere in the draft.

I understand what you are saying, I didn't mean that it would be stupid to draft an OT. I am just saying that our defense is more important to fix right now because we do have a plethera of tackles that are being paid rediculous amounts of money. We got Whitworth in round two and if we really need a tackle to have just in case it should be a second round pick!

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I understand what you are saying, I didn't mean that it would be stupid to draft an OT. I am just saying that our defense is more important to fix right now because we do have a plethera of tackles that are being paid rediculous amounts of money. We got Whitworth in round two and if we really need a tackle to have just in case it should be a second round pick!

Right, which is why, all things being equal, if Ellis or Dorsey is on the board and the Bengals don't take him, I'll personally fly in to Cincinnati to smother Mikey with that damned hat he stole from his father. Problem is, chances of either one being on the board aren't all that great. What do you do if Rivers is the best defender on the board at the time, but a stud OT is sitting there? No easy answer.

[agreen_112]

I understand what you are saying, I didn't mean that it would be stupid to draft an OT. I am just saying that our defense is more important to fix right now because we do have a plethera of tackles that are being paid rediculous amounts of money. We got Whitworth in round two and if we really need a tackle to have just in case it should be a second round pick!

Right, which is why, all things being equal, if Ellis or Dorsey is on the board and the Bengals don't take him, I'll personally fly in to Cincinnati to smother Mikey with that damned hat he stole from his father. Problem is, chances of either one being on the board aren't all that great. What do you do if Rivers is the best defender on the board at the time, but a stud OT is sitting there? No easy answer.

Sure it is. We need defense more than anything. River's could help this defense. He would automatically be the #2 LB behind a fit and ready to play Odell Thurman.

Defense, Defense, Defense.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I understand what you are saying, I didn't mean that it would be stupid to draft an OT. I am just saying that our defense is more important to fix right now because we do have a plethera of tackles that are being paid rediculous amounts of money. We got Whitworth in round two and if we really need a tackle to have just in case it should be a second round pick!

Right, which is why, all things being equal, if Ellis or Dorsey is on the board and the Bengals don't take him, I'll personally fly in to Cincinnati to smother Mikey with that damned hat he stole from his father. Problem is, chances of either one being on the board aren't all that great. What do you do if Rivers is the best defender on the board at the time, but a stud OT is sitting there? No easy answer.

Sure it is. We need defense more than anything. River's could help this defense. He would automatically be the #2 LB behind a fit and ready to play Odell Thurman.

Defense, Defense, Defense.

That ain't exactly a ringing endorsement for a #9 pick.

[chrishcovga]

Well ok let's talk about drafting an offensive lineman.

- In the year following our offensive line's poorest run blocking and yet BEST pass blocking ( all statistically ) we do need to add some young talent there.

But not in the first. - At least with not trading down first. - There are absolutely no guarantees that Clady/Long/Williams/Cherilus/ etc. etc.. will be any better than what Levi or Anderson have been, when healthy. Hell, after watching Long on film, I'm not convinced he was the best offensive lineman on Michigan's team anyway.

- One thing is for sure, Stacey Andrews is not a Left Tackle! We all said 4 years ago, that "IF" he develops into a fine football player, he would be replacing Willie Anderson at right tackle.

- This draft is tooooo deep at offensive tackle to take one early. A guy like Sam Baker, King Dunlap, Carl Nicks, could be grabbed from the 2nd round to the 6th and we'd still have highly athletic stout players for the future at left if Levi's knees don't hold up.

OK, So what do we actually need for the offensive line. -

1. The Center has been the weakest part of the offensive line since Rich Braham was forced into retirement. Gut-check simply isn't a strong enough player and he needs someone to either replace him or force him into exceptional stable play.

2. Bobbie Williams is a " dead man walking " . He's been the weakest link in pass protection and he's lost the ability to hit targets at the second level. I think that when Marvin said " Stacey Andrews was a starter this year ", the job that he'll take over is Bobbie Williams'. A Healthy Willie Anderson is still our best option at right tackle.

- So lets' focus our draft on the offensive lines immediate needs like Center and Right guard, and draft a tackle to groom in the later rounds.

- Two players to target with our third round picks, Mike McGlynn G/C and John Sullivan C,. I think a guy like King Dunlap from Auburn could be a steal in the 4th or 5th round. The guy is huge with good feet, just needs a good kick in the arse to get him playing like he did as a sophomore and junior at Auburn.

If Mike Pollace C, Arizona St. is there at # 77, I would grab him.

[Thurmanation]

Any oline in the nfl can pass block, i mean s**t when i used to play id go in on shotgun 5 wide to pass block(cut block) lol now if you're team can run block thats where the money is, if your oline can move forward and toss a guy back then he sure as hell can take a step back and hold him off for 6 seconds to get the ball off. I dont even see a point in talking about pass blocking because if your T/G/C cant run block he doesn't deserve to be called a good O-lineman period.

and PS. i think its a tie between us right now, the Raiders the Dolphins and the Texans for worst interior linemen.

EDIT: after reading my post over again let me re-phrase; if you CANT pass block well you don't deserve to be a starter in the NFL IMO.

[Clackwoods]

Any oline in the nfl can pass block, i mean s**t when i used to play id go in on shotgun 5 wide to pass block(cut block) lol now if you're team can run block thats where the money is, if your oline can move forward and toss a guy back then he sure as hell can take a step back and hold him off for 6 seconds to get the ball off. I dont even see a point in talking about pass blocking because if your T/G/C cant run block he doesn't deserve to be called a good O-lineman period.

and PS. i think its a tie between us right now, the Raiders the Dolphins and the Texans for worst interior linemen.

EDIT: after reading my post over again let me re-phrase; if you CANT pass block well you don't deserve to be a starter in the NFL IMO.

Case in point, we should have learned from the Seahawks mess up and resigned Steinbach, no matter how much he cost. He went to Cleveland and helped Joe Thomas develop into a beast and he opened up holes for the original jail bait, Jamal Lewis to run for 1300 yards. But, that is kicking a dead horse, we need to draft the best interior lineman available in the third round, and as for defense, we will do the same thing the cardinals did last year, we will draft the best player we need early if we have to which means that Rivers, tho early will be coming home if all the defensive lineman are gone and McFadden isn't sitting there!

[BersMrnsT]

Any oline in the nfl can pass block, i mean s**t when i used to play id go in on shotgun 5 wide to pass block(cut block) lol now if you're team can run block thats where the money is, if your oline can move forward and toss a guy back then he sure as hell can take a step back and hold him off for 6 seconds to get the ball off. I dont even see a point in talking about pass blocking because if your T/G/C cant run block he doesn't deserve to be called a good O-lineman period.

and PS. i think its a tie between us right now, the Raiders the Dolphins and the Texans for worst interior linemen.

EDIT: after reading my post over again let me re-phrase; if you CANT pass block well you don't deserve to be a starter in the NFL IMO.

Case in point, we should have learned from the Seahawks mess up and resigned Steinbach, no matter how much he cost. He went to Cleveland and helped Joe Thomas develop into a beast and he opened up holes for the original jail bait, Jamal Lewis to run for 1300 yards. But, that is kicking a dead horse, we need to draft the best interior lineman available in the third round, and as for defense, we will do the same thing the cardinals did last year, we will draft the best player we need early if we have to which means that Rivers, tho early will be coming home if all the defensive lineman are gone and McFadden isn't sitting there!

The Cardinals are a perfect example. Instead of drafting the next best OT, they should've taken Adrian Peterson. And now if you look many mock drafts have the Cardinals in the market for RB. As difficult as it is, we shouldn't let our past mistakes force us into making new ones. Just because we are spending a lot of money on the tackle position doesn't mean it's not in need of fixing. You say that in 2005 we reached the playoffs because the defense didn't suck as much, well we also reached the playoffs because Carson Palmer enjoyed terrific pass protection all season long, and the pass protection statistics from this last year are skewed because Carson frequently rushed his throws and was extremely concerned about not taking the sack (don't let the stats fool you into thinking that last year's protection was good). Anyways, I promise you that tackle will be a very legitimate concern much sooner than later. This isn't to say defense shouldn't be the priority, which is why if there is an equal or greater talent on the defensive side of the ball we should take the defensive player. But the fact is that after Long, Dorsey, Ellis, Gholston there really aren't any defensive players good enough to sway us from shoring up the offensive line for the long term.

[Clackwoods]

Any oline in the nfl can pass block, i mean s**t when i used to play id go in on shotgun 5 wide to pass block(cut block) lol now if you're team can run block thats where the money is, if your oline can move forward and toss a guy back then he sure as hell can take a step back and hold him off for 6 seconds to get the ball off. I dont even see a point in talking about pass blocking because if your T/G/C cant run block he doesn't deserve to be called a good O-lineman period.

and PS. i think its a tie between us right now, the Raiders the Dolphins and the Texans for worst interior linemen.

EDIT: after reading my post over again let me re-phrase; if you CANT pass block well you don't deserve to be a starter in the NFL IMO.

Case in point, we should have learned from the Seahawks mess up and resigned Steinbach, no matter how much he cost. He went to Cleveland and helped Joe Thomas develop into a beast and he opened up holes for the original jail bait, Jamal Lewis to run for 1300 yards. But, that is kicking a dead horse, we need to draft the best interior lineman available in the third round, and as for defense, we will do the same thing the cardinals did last year, we will draft the best player we need early if we have to which means that Rivers, tho early will be coming home if all the defensive lineman are gone and McFadden isn't sitting there!

The Cardinals are a perfect example. Instead of drafting the next best OT, they should've taken Adrian Peterson. And now if you look many mock drafts have the Cardinals in the market for RB. As difficult as it is, we shouldn't let our past mistakes force us into making new ones. Just because we are spending a lot of money on the tackle position doesn't mean it's not in need of fixing. You say that in 2005 we reached the playoffs because the defense didn't suck as much, well we also reached the playoffs because Carson Palmer enjoyed terrific pass protection all season long, and the pass protection statistics from this last year are skewed because Carson frequently rushed his throws and was extremely concerned about not taking the sack (don't let the stats fool you into thinking that last year's protection was good). Anyways, I promise you that tackle will be a very legitimate concern much sooner than later. This isn't to say defense shouldn't be the priority, which is why if there is an equal or greater talent on the defensive side of the ball we should take the defensive player. But the fact is that after Long, Dorsey, Ellis, Gholston there really aren't any defensive players good enough to sway us from shoring up the offensive line for the long term.

Why I agree that they should have taken AP because he is a savage, I also say that Ryan Clady or no other OL in this draft can be compared to AP, who will become one of the best RB's of all time.

[Sandwedge]

Well ok let's talk about drafting an offensive lineman.

- In the year following our offensive line's poorest run blocking and yet BEST pass blocking ( all statistically ) we do need to add some young talent there.

But not in the first. - At least with not trading down first. - There are absolutely no guarantees that Clady/Long/Williams/Cherilus/ etc. etc.. will be any better than what Levi or Anderson have been, when healthy. Hell, after watching Long on film, I'm not convinced he was the best offensive lineman on Michigan's team anyway.

- One thing is for sure, Stacey Andrews is not a Left Tackle! We all said 4 years ago, that "IF" he develops into a fine football player, he would be replacing Willie Anderson at right tackle.

- This draft is tooooo deep at offensive tackle to take one early. A guy like Sam Baker, King Dunlap, Carl Nicks, could be grabbed from the 2nd round to the 6th and we'd still have highly athletic stout players for the future at left if Levi's knees don't hold up.

OK, So what do we actually need for the offensive line. -

1. The Center has been the weakest part of the offensive line since Rich Braham was forced into retirement. Gut-check simply isn't a strong enough player and he needs someone to either replace him or force him into exceptional stable play.

2. Bobbie Williams is a " dead man walking " . He's been the weakest link in pass protection and he's lost the ability to hit targets at the second level. I think that when Marvin said " Stacey Andrews was a starter this year ", the job that he'll take over is Bobbie Williams'. A Healthy Willie Anderson is still our best option at right tackle.

- So lets' focus our draft on the offensive lines immediate needs like Center and Right guard, and draft a tackle to groom in the later rounds.

- Two players to target with our third round picks, Mike McGlynn G/C and John Sullivan C,. I think a guy like King Dunlap from Auburn could be a steal in the 4th or 5th round. The guy is huge with good feet, just needs a good kick in the arse to get him playing like he did as a sophomore and junior at Auburn.

If Mike Pollace C, Arizona St. is there at # 77, I would grab him.

100% correct!!! IMO I don't think a OT is a big concern at the moment.. It's the interior of the line that is hurting... Levi ended the seaon uninjured and playing good.. All this talk about him declining isn't true.. Willie, I honestly don't know how I feel.. I'd like to see an actual guard or center drafted. Not a tackle that can play guard or center..