Bengals make contract offers to Dhani and Landon

[BlainThePain]

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...PT02/801160376/

Bengals make offers

BY MARK CURNUTTE | MCURNUTTE@ENQUIRER.COM

The Bengals have made the same contract offer to linebackers Landon Johnson and Dhani Jones, both of whom are eligible for unrestricted free agency beginning Feb. 29.

Terms were not available.

Johnson, a rising fifth-year player who will turn 27 on March 31, has led the Bengals in tackles for three of his four seasons with the team.

Jones, a free agent signed in September by the Bengals, is an eight-year veteran who will turn 30 on Feb. 22.

Jones' 111 tackles were second on the Bengals' defense to Johnson's 143. Each player had one sack. Jones, voted special teams captain by his teammates, had seven tackles in the kicking game. Johnson had five on special teams.

Jones played in all 14 games with nine starts after joining the team prior to the Week 3 game at Seattle.

Johnson started all 16 games, upping his four-year participation totals to 53 starts and 64 games played. He did not miss a game due to injury.

Jones is expected to re-sign with the Bengals. Johnson, heading into the prime of his career, is probably headed to the free agent market. The second contract is most often the most lucrative of an NFL player's career.

The Bengals placed four linebackers on the season-ending injured reserve list in 2007. Ahmad Brooks (groin) and Eric Henderson (wrist) are under contract with the Bengals for 2008.

Caleb Miller (back) and Lemar Marshall (Achilles' tendon) are not and are eligible for unrestricted free agency when the period opens at midnight Feb. 29.

Johnson, Jones and Rashad Jeanty, who made seven starts at strong-side linebacker after returning from surgery on his lower leg late in the preseason, stabilized the Bengals' defense down the stretch and contributed to the team's 5-3 finish in the second half of the season.

In addition to Johnson and Jones, fellow defensive starters Justin Smith (end) and Madieu Williams (safety) also can become unrestricted free agents Feb. 29.

[GregCook]

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...PT02/801160376/

Bengals make offers

BY MARK CURNUTTE | MCURNUTTE@ENQUIRER.COM

The Bengals have made the same contract offer to linebackers Landon Johnson and Dhani Jones, both of whom are eligible for unrestricted free agency beginning Feb. 29.

Terms were not available.

Johnson, a rising fifth-year player who will turn 27 on March 31, has led the Bengals in tackles for three of his four seasons with the team.

Jones, a free agent signed in September by the Bengals, is an eight-year veteran who will turn 30 on Feb. 22.

Jones' 111 tackles were second on the Bengals' defense to Johnson's 143. Each player had one sack. Jones, voted special teams captain by his teammates, had seven tackles in the kicking game. Johnson had five on special teams.

Jones played in all 14 games with nine starts after joining the team prior to the Week 3 game at Seattle.

Johnson started all 16 games, upping his four-year participation totals to 53 starts and 64 games played. He did not miss a game due to injury.

Jones is expected to re-sign with the Bengals. Johnson, heading into the prime of his career, is probably headed to the free agent market. The second contract is most often the most lucrative of an NFL player's career.

The Bengals placed four linebackers on the season-ending injured reserve list in 2007. Ahmad Brooks (groin) and Eric Henderson (wrist) are under contract with the Bengals for 2008.

Caleb Miller (back) and Lemar Marshall (Achilles' tendon) are not and are eligible for unrestricted free agency when the period opens at midnight Feb. 29.

Johnson, Jones and Rashad Jeanty, who made seven starts at strong-side linebacker after returning from surgery on his lower leg late in the preseason, stabilized the Bengals' defense down the stretch and contributed to the team's 5-3 finish in the second half of the season.

In addition to Johnson and Jones, fellow defensive starters Justin Smith (end) and Madieu Williams (safety) also can become unrestricted free agents Feb. 29.

Must not want to keep Landon.

I don't understand this one, given all the questions about the LB's from last season. Landon was the only guy who played nearly the entire season and produced at a high level.

Looks like their FA's will be playing eleswhere if Landon is only worth Dhani money.

[HoosierCat]

Must not want to keep Landon.

I don't understand this one, given all the questions about the LB's from last season. Landon was the only guy who played nearly the entire season and produced at a high level.

Looks like their FA's will be playing eleswhere if Landon is only worth Dhani money.

I would argue Landon played the entire season and produced at a...Dhani level.

I like Landon, but I've said before I think he's a No. 4 LB. Great utility guy, would not bug me a bit if they brought him back, but not a guy Im going to open the bank vault for.

Honestly, I'm more interested in having Dhani back. But then again, I do own a bow tie, so I'm biased.

[HairOnFire]

Mixed feelings.

I would have expected Landon to get a bigger offer simply because he's younger, durable, capable of playing multiple spots, and most importantly....a Marvin guy. Whether he's a Zimmer guy is another matter though.

The Bengals are probably hoping to sign Landon to a modest contract, and failing that....have the opportunity to match whatever offer he gets after hitting the open market.

Sorta risky....unless you really don't consider the player someone that must be retained, ala Kaesviharn.

[GregCook]

Must not want to keep Landon.

I don't understand this one, given all the questions about the LB's from last season. Landon was the only guy who played nearly the entire season and produced at a high level.

Looks like their FA's will be playing eleswhere if Landon is only worth Dhani money.

I would argue Landon played the entire season and produced at a...Dhani level.

I like Landon, but I've said before I think he's a No. 4 LB. Great utility guy, would not bug me a bit if they brought him back, but not a guy Im going to open the bank vault for.

Honestly, I'm more interested in having Dhani back. But then again, I do own a bow tie, so I'm biased.

I hope you don't wear it in public though.

[Kazkal]

I would have expected Landon to get a bigger offer simply because he's younger, durable, capable of playing multiple spots, and most importantly....a Marvin guy. Whether he's a Zimmer guy is another matter though.

I'm sure landon did get the bigger offer of the 2.

[whodey_88]

I would have expected Landon to get a bigger offer simply because he's younger, durable, capable of playing multiple spots, and most importantly....a Marvin guy. Whether he's a Zimmer guy is another matter though.

I'm sure landon did get the bigger offer of the 2.

Bengals make offers

BY MARK CURNUTTE | MCURNUTTE@ENQUIRER.COM

"The Bengals have made the same contract offer to linebackers Landon Johnson and Dhani Jones, both of whom are eligible for unrestricted free agency beginning Feb. 29."

Straight from the best source we have...

[Kazkal]

Bah I'm sorry Hair read right past it,

Hmmmmm I wonder what deal looks like either has be decent deal or low balling landon (though play wise I think they deserve same kind contract as a solid starting LB)

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Language in the article sounds like they're setting us up to see Landon leave. Also, just wondering, but is Curnette an ownership lapdog? Maybe it's just me, but it seemed like that article made Hobson into Bob Woodward in comparison.

As far as their offer, I would say Landon's worth a little more than Jones, but not starter money. Do we really think another team will sign what should be a backup Bengals LB to a starter's contract? Maybe if the only look superficially at the tackle numbers, but then any MLB will rack up the tackles when they play behind our DTs.

[HoosierCat]

Do we really think another team will sign what should be a backup Bengals LB to a starter's contract? Maybe if the only look superficially at the tackle numbers, but then any MLB will rack up the tackles when they play behind our DTs.

Remember last offseason, when Marcus Wilkins -- strictly a teams LB -- got $1 million/year? Or the elderly Simmons pulling down a deal worth $3 million/year? I don't think anyone is going to offer Landon big bucks, but say he gets an offer along the lines of Simmons'. Do you pay $3 million a year for Landon, when you can pick a guy like Jones up off the street and he plays about as well?

OTOH there's something to be said for continuity. I'm not sure you can just let all the defensive FAs go. If Justin's going and Robinson's going and Caleb's going...you might want to stop the bleeding at Landon and Madieu.

[agreen_112]

Do we really think another team will sign what should be a backup Bengals LB to a starter's contract? Maybe if the only look superficially at the tackle numbers, but then any MLB will rack up the tackles when they play behind our DTs.

Remember last offseason, when Marcus Wilkins -- strictly a teams LB -- got $1 million/year? Or the elderly Simmons pulling down a deal worth $3 million/year? I don't think anyone is going to offer Landon big bucks, but say he gets an offer along the lines of Simmons'. Do you pay $3 million a year for Landon, when you can pick a guy like Jones up off the street and he plays about as well?

OTOH there's something to be said for continuity. I'm not sure you can just let all the defensive FAs go. If Justin's going and Robinson's going and Caleb's going...you might want to stop the bleeding at Landon and Madieu.

Let all of the mentioned above go and start fresh with a new defensive cord. Justin, Brob, Madieu, Caleb, and Landon along with Thorton are all garbage and are all to blame for a soft defense. Most of these guys are practice squad material for the Ravens, Patriots, Cowboys, Giants, Chargers, ect. Madieu may be the only guy that I wouldn't mind keeping... I think we pick a DE with our first pick if Justin is gone.

[HairOnFire]

Bah I'm sorry Hair read right past it...

Not a problem. In fact, you might even be right. I just read another article written by a different writer who tweaked the wording ever so slightly....making it appear that Landon was indeed offered a slightly bigger deal. All things considered it probably doesn't matter much as both offers are likely little more than starting points, and the Bengals notoriously come out of the gate with lowball offers intended to do little more than generate a counter offer.

However, I still feel the most interesting thing being implied is the Bengals willingness to let Landon enter the FA market....a strategy that gives them the freedom to bid on players who could fill Johnson's spot, hopefuly upgrading the position.

[generaldreedle]

Personally, I do not care if we keep any of our defensive free agents. I like the idea of blowing up the defense, and starting fresh with our new defensive coordinator. We were not winning with these guys, so why be overly concerned if they stay or they go.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Remember last offseason, when Marcus Wilkins -- strictly a teams LB -- got $1 million/year? Or the elderly Simmons pulling down a deal worth $3 million/year? I don't think anyone is going to offer Landon big bucks, but say he gets an offer along the lines of Simmons'. Do you pay $3 million a year for Landon, when you can pick a guy like Jones up off the street and he plays about as well?

OTOH there's something to be said for continuity. I'm not sure you can just let all the defensive FAs go. If Justin's going and Robinson's going and Caleb's going...you might want to stop the bleeding at Landon and Madieu.

If I thought we had the ability to reliably pick up a camp cut and have him come in and be effective every time, I'd be happy to leave about 4 starter spots open every year at the end of camp to pick up guys like that. Unfortunately, we don't always get so lucky - remember OhellImtoast? I think we got lucky with Dhani, plain and simple.

I also think most teams probably thought the Saints were nuts to give $3M to Simmons, when anyone with eyes could see he was about done (I've always thought he was overrated). I doubt Landon will get starter material, but if he does, let him go I guess.

I'm also worried about continuity. Hard to believe we can jettison all the bad/old guys, sucessfully replace them all, and compete next year. It seems every year is turning into 'wait till next year' before the year even starts - 2006 was getting Carson back in shape, 2007 imploded early, and now we're looking at 2008 as a rebuilding year. I'm hoping there's more talent on this D than we think and that Zimmer can get them working quickly with some smart upgrades.

[Oldcat]

The Landon situation is a lot like the KK situation last year...Hes a great guy, with some talent.

If he's one of your reserves, you have good depth. If he's your worst starter, thats ok. If he's your

BEST starter, you have problems at the position.

Since the Bengals don't like make contracts they won't live up to, they have to price it like he's the

third/fourth linebacker. If other teams are more desperate (like say the Saints again) we could be

outbid.

I'm not much for symbolism, so I don't see the value in letting someone go to make a point about

change. But there's only so many holes you can reasonably expect to fill in free agency and the draft

with somebody decent. Remember in 2005 when we had to scramble to find a safety at the last minute.

We were stuck with playing Othalete because he was the best we could find available.

The way I see it, we have to fill these holes this offseason:

starting DE (Justin)

reserve DE (possibly Faenene)

rotation DT/DE (Robinson)

DT project (Toe)

reserve LB (Miller)

Starting LB (Landon)

Nickel CB (Deltha - if his complaining is viewed as a distraction)

That's just to stay even. Ideally we'd like to get stronger on defense.

[HoosierCat]

If I thought we had the ability to reliably pick up a camp cut and have him come in and be effective every time, I'd be happy to leave about 4 starter spots open every year at the end of camp to pick up guys like that. Unfortunately, we don't always get so lucky - remember OhellImtoast? I think we got lucky with Dhani, plain and simple.

I agree we caught a bit of luck with Dhani. But I'd submit that it's far easier to find an average LB (or for that matter DT) in the NFL unemployment line than it is to find an average DB.

It seems every year is turning into 'wait till next year' before the year even starts - 2006 was getting Carson back in shape, 2007 imploded early, and now we're looking at 2008 as a rebuilding year.

What meager established, veteran talent the team had when Lewis took over -- mainly Willie, Dillon, Braham, Spikes and Simmons -- is all, save Willie, gone, and non of it has been replaced by players of comparable talent. The young up-and-comers -- Levi, Justin, Chad, TJ, Rudi -- are aging, starting to slow down, and there are no clear successors for most of them, either. And finally, too much of the fresh talent drafted in the Marvin era to date has either gotten hurt (Pollack, Perry), p*ssed off God-EL (Henry, Odell), been allowed to leave (Washington, Steinbach), turned out to be average (Madieu, Landon, Bluto, Andrews, Fanene) or just plain been a bust (Miller, Rucker).

It certainly hasn't been for lack of trying, but the Bengals have just been unable to break that "perpetual rebuild" cycle.

[DuffMan]

If in fact we did offer both of them the same contracts, and given the fact that both are weak side players, I bet the bengals front office figures they can get the same production from either and hence wont mind if Landon goes. I myself would keep Landon, but I that's b/c of the youth factor. Not that this should be a big consideration, but didn't Odell play weakside a bit his rookie year? Just something to keep in mind if Brooks and Odell are back. Anyone have thoughts on Kawika Mitchell, Reggie Torbor or Victor Hobson as veteran OLBs?

Unless we sign another vet DT I think Thorton will stay. Corey Williams would be a sweet pickup, but he will be the most sought after FA DT if Haynesworth is franchised so our chances are slim.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe that Justin has not been worth his salary this year, but for everyone who wants him gone: who do you replace him with?

A rookie? That's hardly a secure plan.

A big name FA? Jared Allen will get franchised most likely, and Suggs isn't an every down player who will get big big big money if he isnt franchised.

A mid-higher level FA? Antwan Odom would be nice, but he has only had one good season (8 sacks 20-ish tackles) playing across Kyle Vanden Bosch, and 8 sacks in this FA market will still get you mega bucks. Ebenezer Ekuban had a career threatening injury this season. Mike Rucker is tailing off but can probably match Justin's sack output.

Basically once Suggs and Allen are off the market there might not be a better option than Justin left. In that situation the best case scenario might be to resign justin (hopefully for less than 7mil a year) and draft pass rusher to compliment him and geathers. I'm not saying I would do this, but if the Bengals do bring him back that might be the rationale.

btw

Does anyone know why the Bengals haven't put Justin at LE since 2005? Given his tackle > sack ratios you'd think that would be his best position with geathers at RE.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Now don't get me wrong, I believe that Justin has not been worth his salary this year, but for everyone who wants him gone: who do you replace him with?

That's the (approximately) $8M/year question. I can see Mikey struggling with the same conundrum, with U2's "With or without you" appropriately playing in the background.

[bucksfan2]

First post here.

Could the contract offers just be part of the negotiations? I like Landon but he is far from a game changer. I would be willing to pay a little more that what a 4th LB would get but I wouldn't get in a bidding match with another team willing to pay him good money. What you lose if Landon leaves is a guy who can step in and play all three LB spots and knows the system very well.

I really liked what Dhani did this past season. He came in cold and played solid all season long. I would like to see him back as well but not if it means over paying.

There is one guy I am glad won't be back and that is Caleb Miller. The guy who never is at a lost for cocky words who just can't stay on the field. One guy who I think we may see with a Bengals jersey next season is Deltha. He is a pretty good #3 CB and he doesn't make too much money.

[HairOnFire]

Now don't get me wrong, I believe that Justin has not been worth his salary this year, but for everyone who wants him gone: who do you replace him with?

A rookie? That's hardly a secure plan.

Where they go from here is anyones guess, but IMHO the starting point for replacing Justin Smith begins with what they already have. In short, a likely platoon of Rucker and Fanene*.

*How many of you threw up a little in your own mouths?

[GregCook]

The Landon situation is a lot like the KK situation last year...Hes a great guy, with some talent.

If he's one of your reserves, you have good depth. If he's your worst starter, thats ok. If he's your

BEST starter, you have problems at the position.

Since the Bengals don't like make contracts they won't live up to, they have to price it like he's the

third/fourth linebacker. If other teams are more desperate (like say the Saints again) we could be

outbid.

I'm not much for symbolism, so I don't see the value in letting someone go to make a point about

change. But there's only so many holes you can reasonably expect to fill in free agency and the draft

with somebody decent. Remember in 2005 when we had to scramble to find a safety at the last minute.

We were stuck with playing Othalete because he was the best we could find available.

The way I see it, we have to fill these holes this offseason:

starting DE (Justin)

reserve DE (possibly Faenene)

rotation DT/DE (Robinson)

DT project (Toe)

reserve LB (Miller)

Starting LB (Landon)

Nickel CB (Deltha - if his complaining is viewed as a distraction)

That's just to stay even. Ideally we'd like to get stronger on defense.

Well said. The idea is to get better. I don't see how we get better by letting Landon. He plays hard, he makes tackles and he knows what he's doing out there. Comes in handy when we will have lots of rookies and second year players on next seasons team. Of course he might not start if Odell returns along with Henderson, Brooks and Jeanty. Somehow I doubt Odell will start next season after being away for 2 years. Landon is excellent insurance.

[Oldcat]

Now don't get me wrong, I believe that Justin has not been worth his salary this year, but for everyone who wants him gone: who do you replace him with?

A rookie? That's hardly a secure plan.

Where they go from here is anyones guess, but IMHO the starting point for replacing Justin Smith begins with what they already have. In short, a likely platoon of Rucker and Fanene*.

*How many of you threw up a little in your own mouths?

Im hoping our 1st round draft pick fits in that particular slot, actually.

[GregCook]

Now don't get me wrong, I believe that Justin has not been worth his salary this year, but for everyone who wants him gone: who do you replace him with?

A rookie? That's hardly a secure plan.

Where they go from here is anyones guess, but IMHO the starting point for replacing Justin Smith begins with what they already have. In short, a likely platoon of Rucker and Fanene*.

*How many of you threw up a little in your own mouths?

Im hoping our 1st round draft pick fits in that particular slot, actually.

Me too, at the 9 spot, they might get lucky and a very good DE falls to them. I can't see a DT that high, but DE, definitely.

[sparky151]

I'm also worried about continuity. Hard to believe we can jettison all the bad/old guys, sucessfully replace them all, and compete next year. It seems every year is turning into 'wait till next year' before the year even starts - 2006 was getting Carson back in shape, 2007 imploded early, and now we're looking at 2008 as a rebuilding year. I'm hoping there's more talent on this D than we think and that Zimmer can get them working quickly with some smart upgrades.

There won't be continuity on defense for next year regardless. We have a new DC and will have a new LB coach. We'll lose at least 2 or 3 starters to FA. We need Zimmer to get better performance from what we have now, supplemented by maybe 1 good FA and some rookies. We do have a good secondary, half a decent D-line, and lots of bodies at LB. The situation isn't hopeless. Suppose Thurman is reinstated next month, before FA starts. Further suppose we sign Suggs to replace Justin (work with me here), we draft Sedrick Ellis to replace Thornton, take a LB in the 4th round or so and either re-sign Madieu or at least replace him with a vet. Suddenly the defense looks decent. We have a pass rush, the DBs can cover, and we have a DT who requires double teaming.

IMO, it's important that we not take a long time to rebuild the D, because the strength of our offense the receivers are getting old, and the O-line is in flux. Next year may be a better time for us to compete than 2009.