Sick of palmer immitating manning (the good one)

[richmond_mat]

I am fed up with palmer trying to be manning. It's obvious to me that defenses have figured out how to confuse the offense by disguising coverages etc. How does bengalzone feel?

[walzav29]

I feel that Palmer has no running game, and the line misses Willie and a healthy Levi. We have a quarterback. That is the hardest position to fill. We have to sprinkle in the rest.

[skyline]

Now we're blaming Palmer? The critics have hit an all-time low...

[HoosierCat]

Now we're blaming Palmer? The critics have hit an all-time low...

I blame hip-hop...

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Now we're blaming Palmer? The critics have hit an all-time low...

I blame hip-hop...

Nah, it's the violent video games.

And yeah, this witchhunt crap is getting stupid. Carson's at least a top 5 QB.

[Bobcat Bengal]

Now we're blaming Palmer? The critics have hit an all-time low...

I blame hip-hop...

rofl

[NYBengalfan]

I Blame Canada!!!!!!!!

Seriously, I dont know who to blame. I think it's the injuries on the line because it stops the running game, and if you dont have a running game it definitely stops the passing game.

Wanna just blame Chris Henry????

[HoosierCat]

I Blame Canada!!!!!!!!

Yes!

[WhoDey93285]

Put Manning in an offense with no running game and a banged up O-Line and you'll get the exact same result. Carson is fine. IMO, he's the third or fourth best QB in the league.

[richmond_mat]

Put Manning in an offense with no running game and a banged up O-Line and you'll get the exact same result. Carson is fine. IMO, he's the third or fourth best QB in the league.

I am not 'blaming' palmer for anything more than trying to do too much. I think the O would be more effective if they trusted the play called and didn't try to supersize every snap. The defenses are catching up, or is it have caught up, to this nonsense at the line of scrimmage.

[Kirkendall]

Put Manning in an offense with no running game and a banged up O-Line and you'll get the exact same result.

See Indy loss vs. San Diego for best example.

[cincyhokie]

Loss of Braham

Injuries to Willie and Levi

Injuries to RBs

All hurt Palmer's performance.

[HairOnFire]

Let me preface all remarks by saying upfront the following isn't so much a criticis of Palmer, but of the way the Bengals offense is currently structured.

I've got a growing problem with the Bengals "take what the defense gives you" strategy. It's been said that on every play Palmer has at least 4 play options, three pass and one run. The final play call is determined after the defense has been read and the location of the safeties determined. If the safteies are back a run play is checked into. If they're in the box Palmer picks the most appropriate pass play. In short, basic football 101.

That said, we're increasingly witnessing an offense that is statistically sound in most categories, but far too often can't convert on 3rd down, can't score TD's in the red zone, and doesn't have the deep striking ability it once had...and still should. In short, it's a unit that still produces yardage, but far less consistently than it once did, and it's increased rate of failure and conservative approach aften render the yardage produced almost meaningless. For example, several weeks ago Palmer had 186 yards passing in the first half, but had produced only 6 points.

All things considered, this offense no longer feels like one that dictates the action. Or if you prefer, it doesn't so much attack an opponent as much as it reacts to what's being given. As a result there's no swagger anymore, no physical play to be found, and the offenses ranking (Currently 5th) seems like an inside joke that I'm just not getting.

[richmond_mat]

All things considered, this offense no longer feels like one that dictates the action. Or if you prefer, it doesn't so much attack an opponent as much as it reacts to what's being given. As a result there's no swagger anymore, no physical play to be found, and the offenses ranking (Currently 5th) seems like an inside joke that I'm just not getting.

Exactly. The offense isn't dictating squat. When the offense is loaded taking what you want should be the order of the day not what the D will give.

Yeah willie, braham wah wah.....Palmer isn't taking a beating so there isn't too much there to the line stinking. Maybe they stink at run blocking, but you have to try to run the ball to find out that you cannot. I'd like to say it's all Brat's fault, but this manning immitation makes that difficult.

I just would like to see them line up and dictate the game rather than the other way around.

[Kirkendall]

Yeah willie, braham wah wah.....Palmer isn't taking a beating so there isn't too much there to the line stinking.

I dunno Matt. A lot of Palmer's shots aren't showing up in the form of sacks. He's getting rid of the ball early causing disastrous third down attempts (as per Hair) and interceptions introducing the question: "Why aren't the refs calling hits below the QB's knees as per the rules?"

[richmond_mat]

Yeah willie, braham wah wah.....Palmer isn't taking a beating so there isn't too much there to the line stinking.

I dunno Matt. A lot of Palmer's shots aren't showing up in the form of sacks. He's getting rid of the ball early causing disastrous third down attempts (as per Hair) and interceptions introducing the question: "Why aren't the refs calling hits below the QB's knees as per the rules?"

I haven't seen too many knee shots, but I will concede (and if I weren't so lazy I'd compile some stats on this) that he is being hurried some, but I do not know if it's any more than any other QB. I'd say at least one and maybe two of last Sunday's INT's were a direct result of palmer assuming this player would be here because of his at the line shenanigans.

Line up and PLAY BALL.

On a side note, the packers showed yesterday that running the ball isn't that important UNTIL THE FOURTH QUARTER.

peace love and a bengals win will bring happiness

[HairOnFire]

I haven't seen too many knee shots, but I will concede ..... that he is being hurried some, but I do not know if it's any more than any other QB.

Agreed. Last season we were talking about injuries on the offensive line in the same way we're talking about linebacker injuries this year. The result was Palmer being sacked at an alarming rate, and being hit more than any other starting QB in the NFL. Plus, his rehab limited his preseason prep work and his pocket skills were shockingly bad compared to what they had been before hurting his knee.

This season Palmer is rarely sacked and his ability to avoid the rush by sliding around the pocket is dramatically improved. And even though I hold my breath everytime he's hit I've never gotten the feeling that he's been hit hard or often in any game this season....with the exception of Kansas City.

[HoosierCat]

That said, we're increasingly witnessing an offense that is statistically sound in most categories, but far too often can't convert on 3rd down, can't score TD's in the red zone, and doesn't have the deep striking ability it once had...and still should.

I would not describe the offense as statistically sound in most categories; in fact, it's statistically abysmal across the board when it comes to the run: 28th in rushing attempts, 26th in rush yards, 28 in rush YPA and 21st in rushing TDs. And as might be expected, this has led to an imbalance on the passing side. Palmer has generally thrown about 520 - 530 passes a year; this year he's on pace to attempt more than 600.

The bottom line is that both the offense's overall struggles, and Carson's, are directly related to the lack of a run game. With no threat to run the ball, opposing defense can literally nickle and dime the Bengals to death. Can't pick up a 3rd? No run game. Lack of physical play/not dictating on O? All that starts with the run. Can't go downfield? Hard to do when the other side can drop 7 into coverage every play.

[cincy9275]

it's a bad season period. some are trying to hard while some are not trying hard enough. stop sherching for someone to blame we all know mike is at fault for be a corner cutting cheap skate. this is the reusult of putting ducktape on a hole in a sinking ship and expecting it to stay afloat. the problems here can be fixed but hardheaded mike and marv need to admit there wrong, and do what they need to to get this team back to the playoff's. but i am not holding my breath because i don't think it will happen.

[HoosierCat]

From Lonnie Wheeler's blog...

Monday, November 19, 2007

Not to be Rude to Rudi . . .

To an extent, I understand and applaud the coaches' loyalty to Rudi Johnson. He has been a bellcow running back for the Bengals, and a solid citizen to boot. But it just isn't working.

It might be lingering hamstring problems from the injury Rudi suffered in Seattle, if not before. It might be the pounding he has taken over the years, running over and into people. It might be the loss of weight he incurred by improving his diet. It might be an unwitting change of style.

I could buy any of the above. What I can't buy is Marvin Lewis' insistence that Johnson is doing just fine.

Look, I appreciate that the coaches watch film and we don't. I appreciate that the coaches know how to watch film and we don't. But I also appreciate the obvious.

Since he picked up 118 yards in 23 carries against Cleveland in week two, Johnson has missed three games and played in five. In those five games, he has carried the ball 60 times for 99 yards, an average of 1.65 per try.

Maybe, as Lewis suggests, it's the blocking and overall dynamics of the running game. But Kenny Watson -- whose running ability was so lightly regarded by the Cincinnati staff that he didn't even carry the ball in the first two games -- is not having the same difficulty as Johnson. Over the same time span, he has rushed 107 times for 481 yards, an average of 4.5 yards. (For the season, including Cleveland and the opener against Baltimore, Rudi has 101 rushing attempts for 267 yards, an average of 2.6 per carry.)

By all accounts, Watson is a better pass receiver than Johnson. By most, he is a better blocker.

So why isn't he starting?

And why isn't DeDe Dorsey getting the ball? Dorsey's numbers don't show much -- eight carries for 26 yards, a 3.3 average -- but his speed is certainly intriguing. The hurry in which he gets to the hole is something the Bengals don't otherwise have. His ability to run wide would give the Cincinnati running game a valuable dimension that it hasn't shown.

Sunday, the Arizona Cardinals were so unconcerned about the Bengals' running game that they sometimes dropped back eight pass defenders. The result was four interceptions, two returned for touchdowns.

And on the subject of the running game . . . If it's that bad, why are the Bengals wasting their tight ends by having them mostly block? And wasting their fullback, for that matter? (In fairness, the tight ends and fullbacks also pass-block a good bit, and do it effectively.)

I'm not blaming Rudi. Like you, I admire and root for Rudi, and hope that he can return to his bruising, battering form.

I'm blaming the coaches who keep sending him out there when he's clearly not at his best; when he's clearly hindering the Bengals' offense.

Loyalty is a wonderful thing. 3-7 is not.

[Kirkendall]

So are Bengals being too loyal again? I think we should have an intervention with Rudi. We'll invite him to some BengalsZone charity function and have him speak. Instead, we'll have an intervention for Rudi and stuff his face full of food to gain 20 pounds in one setting. He might be worn out in the second half, but he'll at least gain six yards on one drive. Hey, baby steps. He's not done yet. Just side-tracked.

[jjakq27]

As far as the original thread, yes I think it is time to just line up and run the play as part of the no huddle or huddle up and run the play as called. Audible if necessary but quit with all of the other stuff. And no I am not bashing Carson or blaming him for the Bengals woes, when when you are 3-7 everything bears review. I think they spend too much time at the line which leads to too many unneccesary penalties every game. Three or four at least for false starts, delay of games or worse yet, a time out. If you are going to run the no-huddle then run it right. The results don't show any great benefit. In fact Marvin mentioned after the Jets game that they just lined up and ran the play that was called.

As far as Rudi, I agree with Kirk, he is too light. Losing the weight did not make him faster that's for sure. And now he isn't going to run anyone over either. Look at the play where Rudi bounces off of Polamalu for TD in the December 2005 game against the Steelers. It doesn't even look like the same guy.

I also wonder if his workload the last three previous seasons has caught up to him. Or maybe Willie's comment about guys going Hollywood applies to Rudi. Who knows. It's all fair game.

[HoTbOy]

I would have to agree to just PLAY BALL, while it does help sometime to throw of the D or stop them from substituting or make them winded, the opposing teams always seem to know when he audibles to a run...

[richmond_mat]

As far as the original thread, yes I think it is time to just line up and run the play as part of the no huddle or huddle up and run the play as called. Audible if necessary but quit with all of the other stuff. And no I am not bashing Carson or blaming him for the Bengals woes, when when you are 3-7 everything bears review. I think they spend too much time at the line which leads to too many unneccesary penalties every game. Three or four at least for false starts, delay of games or worse yet, a time out. If you are going to run the no-huddle then run it right. The results don't show any great benefit. In fact Marvin mentioned after the Jets game that they just lined up and ran the play that was called.

Thank you for sying it better than I could.

[BENGALTHEM]

I'm just sick of Palmer audibling to a run play. This seems to happen 90% of the time.