EVERY BENGALS FAN READ THIS... it pertains to Sunday

[Sundance_Kid]

EVERYONE looks at the 4th and 1 call and decides it shows a lack of faith to our most coveted players, and the stars of our team, which everyone likes to 'get wet' and 'slurp' over (rightly so, i love carson so much, i'd bojangle 3 men to get to him).

But what Marvin really meant to do was show an 'abundance' of faith to the defense. plain and simple. and it is the only thing in life that seperates great accomplishments... a great leap of faith...

this message sounds like a church ad... and it did blow up in marvin's face completely...(which everyone expects it would)

BUT, i think what it did was make a few things clear to Marvin, and the route he has to take from here on out...

[WhoDey93285]

Don't try to butter it up. It was a gutless, terrible, spineless coaching decision and probably nailed that last nail in the coffin of this team. That call to me was absolutely HUGE. Not just on the impact of the game, but on the team's pshyce. You can tell by most of the players quotes after the game that they are very disapointed in the head man, and deservedly so.

[jonahdsage]

Don't try to butter it up. It was a gutless, terrible, spineless coaching decision and probably nailed that last nail in the coffin of this team. That call to me was absolutely HUGE. Not just on the impact of the game, but on the team's pshyce. You can tell by most of the players quotes after the game that they are very disapointed in the head man, and deservedly so.

I don't think he's buttering it up people just want to blame the loss on something specific/tangible. Who needs a confidence booster more -- the defense or offense? clearly our defense is just plain awful

I think giving it to kenny watson up the middle in a smash mouth run ala rudi's TD last year in Ray Lewis face would absolutely have fired the team up, sent the stadium going nuts etc. I think marvin did what he thought was best (which you can argue with) but just look at the rest of the calls we make (especially offensively, sheesh) and i don't think it's fare to call marvin spineless/gutless and so on. I'm dissappointed as everyone else is but i'd much rather pin the loss on all the OUTRAGEOUS calls by the revs than the one play where marvin called a play which is arguable at best. In all reality, though, if we got more than 1 stop defensively we could win lots of games.

[redsrule2500]

Oh please, everyone making that call into "THE CALL" of the season.

If they would have done that and missed it everyone would be challenging him for lack of the "guaranteed points" and "Shows no faith in the D" ....blah

[Casey]

Don't try to butter it up. It was a gutless, terrible, spineless coaching decision and probably nailed that last nail in the coffin of this team. That call to me was absolutely HUGE. Not just on the impact of the game, but on the team's pshyce. You can tell by most of the players quotes after the game that they are very disapointed in the head man, and deservedly so.

I don't think he's buttering it up people just want to blame the loss on something specific/tangible. Who needs a confidence booster more -- the defense or offense? clearly our defense is just plain awful

I think giving it to kenny watson up the middle in a smash mouth run ala rudi's TD last year in Ray Lewis face would absolutely have fired the team up, sent the stadium going nuts etc. I think marvin did what he thought was best (which you can argue with) but just look at the rest of the calls we make (especially offensively, sheesh) and i don't think it's fare to call marvin spineless/gutless and so on. I'm dissappointed as everyone else is but i'd much rather pin the loss on all the OUTRAGEOUS calls by the revs than the one play where marvin called a play which is arguable at best. In all reality, though, if we got more than 1 stop defensively we could win lots of games.

I don't think the offense is playing with much confidence right now either. Maybe going for it and getting it would have given them a little of their swagger back. Both the offense and defense were lifeless on Sunday. Yeah, the defense was terrible, but it was the offense that only scored one touchdown.

[walzav29]

The problem is that he is making sound decisions if he had a sound team. For some reason he has more faith in the pathetic defense over the OK offense. The decision makes sense if you have a defense. He is in a complete state of denial when it comes to his defense. It's sad. He was thinking 17-13 after the Bengals first possession in the 2nd half. The personel decisons, along with coaching, along with poor execution is why this team sucks. I guess it's time to break out the 1995 Scott Mitchell Rally Cry! 2-5 to 10-6. Both jungle cats? Both 2-5? The comparisons are uncanny. They have to be COMPLETELY out of it before they turn it around and hit their beloved 8-8 season. 2-7 and then they turn it on. Close out Coslet style and biggity bam! 8-8!

[oldschooler]

Don't try to butter it up. It was a gutless, terrible, spineless coaching decision and probably nailed that last nail in the coffin of this team. That call to me was absolutely HUGE. Not just on the impact of the game, but on the team's pshyce. You can tell by most of the players quotes after the game that they are very disapointed in the head man, and deservedly so.

First off, you need slapped for your signature. That s**t is pathetic.

As far as the play, The Defense held the Stealers to 3 points in

the 2nd half. So I don`t think it hurt their psyche at all.

And I`ve read quotes from the Offensive players, but

don`t see what you`re seeing. Maybe you should take

that "Chin" out of your sig, so you can see and read better.

Here is a quote from TJ on that play and Marvin. . .

"I don't know about strategically if it matters either way if we went for it or didn't," said wide receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh about the fourth-down decision. "(The media) are making a big deal about the call but I don't know if even we get the first down and score, do we win? We don't know that. You can't point to that one thing and say that's why we lost because there is no guarantee that if we score that we're going to win the game anyway."

Houshmandzadeh didn't buy into the thought that Lewis had lost any of the respect or trust of the Bengals players. He also doesn't believe that any of the criticism Lewis has taken for the team's poor play this season is affecting the players.

"I look at it the same as when people were asking me about them trading Chad," said Houshmandzadeh. "When things were going bad, Marvin was the savior when he came in. He turned it around and things are going good. Now that things aren't going the way everybody expects them to go, you want to say get rid of him. Why is that? When everything is going good you love him. You have to take the bitter with the sweet, the good with the bad and just roll with the punches.

"We're just not winning games. It's not just his fault."

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...11/1022/RSS0302

Quotes from Carson, Whitworth and Bobbie Williams . . .

"It's so easy to sit back right now. There are always two sides to look at it," said quarterback Carson Palmer. "We're all sitting around saying we should have gone for it because we lost.

"I think we're all confident in our coaches. If they think that's the best situation to be in, then we'll roll with it. If they think the best situation is a play-action pass and throw it into the end zone, then we'll roll with it. We trust our coaches, and expect they make the right decisions and do whatever they ask."

Left guard Andrew Whitworth thought Lewis faced a tough call.

"I think it was a situation where the way we were moving the football, you had to think that we were probably going to get points the whole game," Whitworth said. "I think Marvin was thinking, 'kick the field goal and get more points, and then come out in the second half.' But they put a great drive together and scored. It's just a tough situation."

Right guard Bobbie Williams insisted, "As an offensive lineman, you always want to go for it. That's why we've got coaches ... it was a good call. Cooler heads prevailed."

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6399

[The PatternMaster]

Don't try to butter it up. It was a gutless, terrible, spineless coaching decision and probably nailed that last nail in the coffin of this team. That call to me was absolutely HUGE. Not just on the impact of the game, but on the team's pshyce. You can tell by most of the players quotes after the game that they are very disapointed in the head man, and deservedly so.

First off, you need slapped for your signature. That s**t is pathetic.

As far as the play, The Defense held the Stealers to 3 points in

the 2nd half. So I don`t think it hurt their psyche at all.

And I`ve read quotes from the Offensive players, but

don`t see what you`re seeing. Maybe you should take

that "Chin" out of your sig, so you can see and read better.

Here is a quote from TJ on that play and Marvin. . .

"I don't know about strategically if it matters either way if we went for it or didn't," said wide receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh about the fourth-down decision. "(The media) are making a big deal about the call but I don't know if even we get the first down and score, do we win? We don't know that. You can't point to that one thing and say that's why we lost because there is no guarantee that if we score that we're going to win the game anyway."

Houshmandzadeh didn't buy into the thought that Lewis had lost any of the respect or trust of the Bengals players. He also doesn't believe that any of the criticism Lewis has taken for the team's poor play this season is affecting the players.

"I look at it the same as when people were asking me about them trading Chad," said Houshmandzadeh. "When things were going bad, Marvin was the savior when he came in. He turned it around and things are going good. Now that things aren't going the way everybody expects them to go, you want to say get rid of him. Why is that? When everything is going good you love him. You have to take the bitter with the sweet, the good with the bad and just roll with the punches.

"We're just not winning games. It's not just his fault."

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...11/1022/RSS0302

Quotes from Carson, Whitworth and Bobbie Williams . . .

"It's so easy to sit back right now. There are always two sides to look at it," said quarterback Carson Palmer. "We're all sitting around saying we should have gone for it because we lost.

"I think we're all confident in our coaches. If they think that's the best situation to be in, then we'll roll with it. If they think the best situation is a play-action pass and throw it into the end zone, then we'll roll with it. We trust our coaches, and expect they make the right decisions and do whatever they ask."

Left guard Andrew Whitworth thought Lewis faced a tough call.

"I think it was a situation where the way we were moving the football, you had to think that we were probably going to get points the whole game," Whitworth said. "I think Marvin was thinking, 'kick the field goal and get more points, and then come out in the second half.' But they put a great drive together and scored. It's just a tough situation."

Right guard Bobbie Williams insisted, "As an offensive lineman, you always want to go for it. That's why we've got coaches ... it was a good call. Cooler heads prevailed."

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6399

Good post Oldie...

[as_v_1]

EVERYONE looks at the 4th and 1 call and decides it shows a lack of faith to our most coveted players, and the stars of our team, which everyone likes to 'get wet' and 'slurp' over (rightly so, i love carson so much, i'd bojangle 3 men to get to him).

But what Marvin really meant to do was show an 'abundance' of faith to the defense. plain and simple. and it is the only thing in life that seperates great accomplishments... a great leap of faith...

this message sounds like a church ad... and it did blow up in marvin's face completely...(which everyone expects it would)

BUT, i think what it did was make a few things clear to Marvin, and the route he has to take from here on out...

I think it shows just the opposite of an 'abundance' of faith in the defense. You go for it on 4th and 1 if you actually trust that defense to hold them to a 3 and out deep in there own half of the field. He pulled the trigger because he knew that defense had no chance in hell of ever actually stopping them, and if he didn't get the safe 3 points then the s**t really hits the fan. You drive down to the 1 yard line and go for it and get nothing and then the other team marches right down the field and its over players just start quiting out there. Have some guts and go for it. If this team thats supposed to have so many great players on offense cant get one damn yard when they need it then just quit.

[WhoDey93285]

Don't try to butter it up. It was a gutless, terrible, spineless coaching decision and probably nailed that last nail in the coffin of this team. That call to me was absolutely HUGE. Not just on the impact of the game, but on the team's pshyce. You can tell by most of the players quotes after the game that they are very disapointed in the head man, and deservedly so.

First off, you need slapped for your signature. That s**t is pathetic.

As far as the play, The Defense held the Stealers to 3 points in

the 2nd half. So I don`t think it hurt their psyche at all.

And I`ve read quotes from the Offensive players, but

don`t see what you`re seeing. Maybe you should take

that "Chin" out of your sig, so you can see and read better.

Here is a quote from TJ on that play and Marvin. . .

"I don't know about strategically if it matters either way if we went for it or didn't," said wide receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh about the fourth-down decision. "(The media) are making a big deal about the call but I don't know if even we get the first down and score, do we win? We don't know that. You can't point to that one thing and say that's why we lost because there is no guarantee that if we score that we're going to win the game anyway."

Houshmandzadeh didn't buy into the thought that Lewis had lost any of the respect or trust of the Bengals players. He also doesn't believe that any of the criticism Lewis has taken for the team's poor play this season is affecting the players.

"I look at it the same as when people were asking me about them trading Chad," said Houshmandzadeh. "When things were going bad, Marvin was the savior when he came in. He turned it around and things are going good. Now that things aren't going the way everybody expects them to go, you want to say get rid of him. Why is that? When everything is going good you love him. You have to take the bitter with the sweet, the good with the bad and just roll with the punches.

"We're just not winning games. It's not just his fault."

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...11/1022/RSS0302

Quotes from Carson, Whitworth and Bobbie Williams . . .

"It's so easy to sit back right now. There are always two sides to look at it," said quarterback Carson Palmer. "We're all sitting around saying we should have gone for it because we lost.

"I think we're all confident in our coaches. If they think that's the best situation to be in, then we'll roll with it. If they think the best situation is a play-action pass and throw it into the end zone, then we'll roll with it. We trust our coaches, and expect they make the right decisions and do whatever they ask."

Left guard Andrew Whitworth thought Lewis faced a tough call.

"I think it was a situation where the way we were moving the football, you had to think that we were probably going to get points the whole game," Whitworth said. "I think Marvin was thinking, 'kick the field goal and get more points, and then come out in the second half.' But they put a great drive together and scored. It's just a tough situation."

Right guard Bobbie Williams insisted, "As an offensive lineman, you always want to go for it. That's why we've got coaches ... it was a good call. Cooler heads prevailed."

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6399

I root for the team, not the coach. I hate Cowher as much as anybody else, but I want to win more. Marvin Lewis is not the guy to do that. 10-16 in the last 26. 2 severely underachieving teams the past two years. No control in the locker room. If you want to keep in a state of denial and keep backing Coach Lewis, be my guest.

But if you want a man who will come in and bring intimidation, a winning record, and somebody who would never let a defense and go out and be embarassed week after week, then Cowher is your guy.

And I hate it when people say the defense held Pitt to only 3 points in the second half. PITT DIDN'T NEED TO SCORE. All they had to do was run the ball and stay on the field and run clock. That was their main goal in that half. Everybody watching knew it. Everybody in the stadium knew it. We knew what was coming and we still couldn't stop it. All we had to do was get off the field, and we couldn't do it. Honestly, that's much more embarrassing than anything else. So, go ahead and hang your hat on the 3 points if you want to, it still doesn't matter. The defense was still embarassed in the second half and played like sh* t. They lucked into 1 turnover after Pitt drove down to the 10 and ate up about 8 minutes of clock. Big deal.

I have to go to work, but I'll address the other part of your post later...

[Jet23]

Personally, I would love Bill Cowher as our HC, but it will never happen. Guys like Bill Cowher do not work for guys like Mike Brown. He can cherry pick his next job, why in the world would he come here?

[oldschooler]

I root for the team, not the coach. I hate Cowher as much as anybody else, but I want to win more. Marvin Lewis is not the guy to do that. 10-16 in the last 26. 2 severely underachieving teams the past two years. No control in the locker room. If you want to keep in a state of denial and keep backing Coach Lewis, be my guest.

Are you saying that I root for Marvin more than I do the Bengals ?

Marvin has proven with a relatively healthy team he can go 11-5 and

win the division.

No control in the locker room ? When the hell have you ever been in the locker room ?

And I`d rather keep my integrity than win a Super Bowl. If the Bengals have to

cheat, injure other team`s players, or hire Cowher (which I don`t think he

would win anyway) then no thanks.

But if you want a man who will come in and bring intimidation, a winning record, and somebody who would never let a defense and go out and be embarassed week after week, then Cowher if your guy.

Oh please. Cowher had a losing season more recently than Marvin has had.

Cowher won one Super Bowl in 15 years, and that one is tainted.

He choked in the Spot Light more than Porn Star. He followed a Hall of Fame

mutiple Super Bowl winning coach. Cowher never had to come in and rebuild

a team and install a new culture the way Marvin had to.

And I hate it when people say the defense held Pitt to only 3 points in the second half. PITT DIDN'T NEED TO SCORE. All they had to do was run the ball and stay on the field and run clock. That was their main goal in that half. Everybody watching knew it. Everybody in the stadium knew it. We knew what was coming and we still couldn't stop it. All we had to do was get off the field, and we couldn't do it. Honestly, that's much more embarrassing than anything else. So, go ahead and hang your hat on the 3 points if you want to, it still doesn't matter. The defense was still embarassed in the second half and played like sh* t. They lucked into 1 turnover after Pitt drove down to the 10 and ate up about 8 minutes of clock. Big deal.

LMFAO ! Are you trying to tell me that the Stealers weren`t trying to score ?

The Stealers passed the ball 12 times, and ran the ball 18 times in the 2nd Half.

They were trying to do more than just ran the damn clock. They were trying

to add to their lead. The time possesion was very close in the 3rd quarter,

and the Stealers had a huge advantage in the 4th quarter, but that`s because

the Bengals Offense scored after 4 plays to start the 4th quarter, and Watson fumbled

to give them the ball back with over 3 minutes left.

I hate it when the Bengals get turnovers, people like you say they "lucked into it",

but teams like the Stealers "force turnovers".

I have to go to work, but I'll address the other part of your post later...

Don`t bother.

[Scott]

But if you want a man who will come in and bring intimidation, a winning record, and somebody who would never let a defense and go out and be embarassed week after week, then Cowher if your guy.

Oh please. Cowher had a losing season more recently than Marvin has had.

Cowher won one Super Bowl in 15 years, and that one is tainted.

He choked in the Spot Light more than Porn Star. He followed a Hall of Fame

mutiple Super Bowl winning coach. Cowher never had to come in and rebuild

a team and install a new culture the way Marvin had to.

I have to go to work, but I'll address the other part of your post later...

Don`t bother.

That is absolutely beautiful. I've been preaching the same thing for the past few years.

[ArmyBengal]

This thread is rediculous...

Everyone has been up Marvin's asspiece ever since he got here and has never had a losing season. NOW, we are sitting at 2-5 and people are calling for him to be fired. THAT IS PATHETIC !!! Talk about a bandwagon fan. You support the whole organization or don't bother at all. Do you have to agree with what is happening ?? No, but you still support it. Marvin is ultimately responsible, but if you bothered to pay attention, you would see there are more problems that exist on this team outside the head coach. I can't stand either of our coordinators and think their playcalling blows monkey nuts. I think our defense, being made up of youngsters or overpaid s**tbags, is an issue. The injuries (regardless of how much you don't think it's an excuse) have KILLED this team. The loss of Henry for the offense has been huge and the Bengals 3rd WR is still non existant on this team.

Want to bring in another coach ?? Ok, fine, who ?? Don't say Cowher either and look at Old Schoolers post for my shared opinion as to why. The issues that exist on this team, while ultimately falling on Marvin, aren't his to bare alone and anyone placeing them squarely on his shoulders is wrong in my opinion...

Does anyone remember that oldie but goodie, "In Marvin We Trust" ???

While I was never a fan of that saying, I still trust in the fact that he's the right man for the job...

WHODEY !!!

[WhoDey93285]

This thread is rediculous...

Everyone has been up Marvin's asspiece ever since he got here and has never had a losing season. NOW, we are sitting at 2-5 and people are calling for him to be fired. THAT IS PATHETIC !!! Talk about a bandwagon fan. You support the whole organization or don't bother at all. Do you have to agree with what is happening ?? No, but you still support it. Marvin is ultimately responsible, but if you bothered to pay attention, you would see there are more problems that exist on this team outside the head coach. I can't stand either of our coordinators and think their playcalling blows monkey nuts. I think our defense, being made up of youngsters or overpaid s**tbags, is an issue. The injuries (regardless of how much you don't think it's an excuse) have KILLED this team. The loss of Henry for the offense has been huge and the Bengals 3rd WR is still non existant on this team.

Want to bring in another coach ?? Ok, fine, who ?? Don't say Cowher either and look at Old Schoolers post for my shared opinion as to why. The issues that exist on this team, while ultimately falling on Marvin, aren't his to bare alone and anyone placeing them squarely on his shoulders is wrong in my opinion...

Does anyone remember that oldie but goodie, "In Marvin We Trust" ???

While I was never a fan of that saying, I still trust in the fact that he's the right man for the job...

WHODEY !!!

I have actually been questioning Marvin since last season, and he lost the "In Marvin We Trust" slogan with me after last season's collapse. This year is just emphasizing and reassuring my opinion. Not just because we are 2-5. I like Marvin. I respect him for bringing us back to respectability. I wish he was the guy to take us to the top, but I don't see that happening. If he proves me wrong, trust me, I'll gladly eat my crow. I still root and pull for Marvin and the team, harder than ever, every single Sunday. I don't believe that is the definition of a bandwagon fan, but to each his own...

[damiancasey]

This thread is rediculous...

Everyone has been up Marvin's asspiece ever since he got here and has never had a losing season. NOW, we are sitting at 2-5 and people are calling for him to be fired. THAT IS PATHETIC !!! Talk about a bandwagon fan. You support the whole organization or don't bother at all. Do you have to agree with what is happening ?? No, but you still support it. Marvin is ultimately responsible, but if you bothered to pay attention, you would see there are more problems that exist on this team outside the head coach. I can't stand either of our coordinators and think their playcalling blows monkey nuts. I think our defense, being made up of youngsters or overpaid s**tbags, is an issue. The injuries (regardless of how much you don't think it's an excuse) have KILLED this team. The loss of Henry for the offense has been huge and the Bengals 3rd WR is still non existant on this team.

Want to bring in another coach ?? Ok, fine, who ?? Don't say Cowher either and look at Old Schoolers post for my shared opinion as to why. The issues that exist on this team, while ultimately falling on Marvin, aren't his to bare alone and anyone placeing them squarely on his shoulders is wrong in my opinion...

Does anyone remember that oldie but goodie, "In Marvin We Trust" ???

While I was never a fan of that saying, I still trust in the fact that he's the right man for the job...

WHODEY !!!

Testify...

[walshfan]

EVERYONE looks at the 4th and 1 call and decides it shows a lack of faith to our most coveted players, and the stars of our team, which everyone likes to 'get wet' and 'slurp' over (rightly so, i love carson so much, i'd bojangle 3 men to get to him).

But what Marvin really meant to do was show an 'abundance' of faith to the defense. plain and simple. and it is the only thing in life that seperates great accomplishments... a great leap of faith...

this message sounds like a church ad... and it did blow up in marvin's face completely...(which everyone expects it would)

BUT, i think what it did was make a few things clear to Marvin, and the route he has to take from here on out...

I disagree......He played it "safe" and went for the 3......It showed a complete Lack of Faith in his offense and it'll come back and bite him in the ass.

[damiancasey]

EVERYONE looks at the 4th and 1 call and decides it shows a lack of faith to our most coveted players, and the stars of our team, which everyone likes to 'get wet' and 'slurp' over (rightly so, i love carson so much, i'd bojangle 3 men to get to him).

But what Marvin really meant to do was show an 'abundance' of faith to the defense. plain and simple. and it is the only thing in life that seperates great accomplishments... a great leap of faith...

this message sounds like a church ad... and it did blow up in marvin's face completely...(which everyone expects it would)

BUT, i think what it did was make a few things clear to Marvin, and the route he has to take from here on out...

I disagree......He played it "safe" and went for the 3......It showed a complete Lack of Faith in his offense and it'll come back and bite him in the ass.

Or you could say that it shows a ton of faith in his offense...as in "we don't need to go for it now because I have the utmost faith that you will score later in the game"

Or you could say that it shows a ton of faith in his defense...as in "we don't need to go for it now because I have the utmost faith that you will stop the Stealers offense later in the game"

or...both

Everyone is looking at his decision as though he was thinking negatively when he made it. The fact is that he was thinking that we didn't NEED to go for it because the defense was going to make stops and the offense was going to score points - and his statements after the game support this.

Frankly - I think this is the way you HAVE to coach. If you base your coaching communication and decisions based on the belief that your team is worthless and can't do anything right...well...you're doomed.

The 4th and 1 call is an insignificant event in the grand scheme of things and needs to be put to bed.

[ArmyBengal]

Scooter, that may not apply to you and I have no problem with that... However, for everyone else... If the shoe fits, wear that motherf*cker !!! Some were quick to be all over Marvin and look at him as if he were the next coming, and now the same people are ready to find his replacement. (Good luck with that) Oh yeah, if you are going to base all of this on one call that he made and how much it wil affect the team, I suggest you go back and read what the players had to say about the call AFTER the anger of losing the game wore off and they could look at it with some perspective. For Christ's sake people, think about it for more than a minute and realize there are more problems on this team than Marvin.

WHODEY !!!