Would you Rather have Hall or the browns 1st next year :p

[Kazkal]

TEAMS SHOULDN'T HESITATE TO TRADE WITH DIVISION RIVALS by Michael David Smith

When the Philadelphia Eagles traded their first-round pick to the Cowboys Saturday, most Eagles fans were unhappy. The thought among the Philly faithful was that the Eagles had just helped a division rival. As one PFT reader said during the live blog, "Eagles and Cowboys trade is like Rosie asking the Donald to pass the tub of gravy at the dinner table."

Similarly, Peter King of SI.com reported that, when Browns general manager Phil Savage was looking for trading partners to get back into the first round and draft Brady Quinn, he didn't even bother trying to talk to the Bengals, who owned the eighteenth overall pick. "'You think they'd ever trade with us?' he said, chuckling. 'I don't think so.'''

There's a widespread perception -- among fans and, as Savage revealed, among General Managers -- that trading with division partners is a mistake. But if a G.M. thinks he's getting the better end of the trade, why not do it? If the Browns propose a trade to the Bengals, and the Bengals think they would benefit from that trade, why shouldn't they pull the trigger?

Of the 26 trades during draft weekend, two involved division rivals. One was the Cowboys-Eagles trade, and the other was the Seahawks shipping Darrell Jackson to the 49ers for a fourth-round pick. Two-for-26 creates the impression that such trades are rare, but keep in mind that when you're looking to trade, you've got 31 potential partners and only three are in your division.

In both of those intra-division trades, the front offices involved surely asked themselves the question, "Are we giving this team a player who could beat us twice a year?" But, in both situations, the teams wisely concluded that helping their own teams was more important than depriving a divisional opponent.

Bottom line: If a G.M. thinks a trade will make his team better, he should make the trade.

[Editor's note: I might have to cobble together a rebuttal to this one. But I won't be calling MDS an ignorant slut.]

Not that it matters,I just find it kinda intresting the browns were intrested in trading with us but figured we woulden't be.

[mgilgris]

I would personally rather have Hall this year than a pick next year. I am getting a little tired of this "next year it will happen" thought process. Our best players are not getting any younger thats for sure.

Furthermore, even if Hall doesnt end up starting, it is better to get a guy this year and get him expereince than wait and have two picks next year who will both be rookies with NO experience.

Just one mans opinion however.

[BengalByTheBay]

Maybe I'm a little schitzo on this issue, but I wholeheartedly agree with the rule of thumb that you don't trade within your division. At the same time, I have no problem with trading within the conference. I still recall that moron, Michael Irvin, berating the Bengals when we traded Dillon to the Pats because, as he said "you never trade within your conference." Irvin doesn't know s**t obviously, but to think that you can't trade inside an entire conference is ridiculous -- you've just cut out half the league. Inside the division is different to me for some reason. I think it boils down to the fact that I just wouldn't trust it. If, even through a fluke, it turns out that the trade works out for them and not for you you'd kick yourself forever. If somehow you were so much smarter, or they were so far over a barrell, that you could completely screw them on the trade I suppose it could make sense. But only if you were dead certain of that.

While the punditry has proclaimed the Clowns as having had a genius draft, I can only think of the 1st rounder that Dallas got for next season. Unless I miss my guess, that will end up being a pretty nice looking draft spot ultimately. The Clowns obviously feel like they have to jumpstart their offense right now, but I would be concerned that maybe...just maybe... all those teams that took a pass on Quinn may know something. As with all draft-day stuff -- we will have to wait and see.

[HoosierCat]

I dont believe in a hard-and-fast rule about trading within a division. You have to evaluate every trade on a case-by-case basis. And in the case of this year, were I sitting at 18 and gotten a call from Cleveland, I would not have made the trade. Sure, you get an extra 1 next April, but then you get 0 1sts this April -- and we would have missed out on the top CB in the draft in the process.

[7/11]

we already have plenty of picks for next year's draft.

i

[Kazkal]

we already have plenty of picks for next year's draft.

i

10-11 is alot

[HairOnFire]

I dont believe in a hard-and-fast rule about trading within a division. You have to evaluate every trade on a case-by-case basis. And in the case of this year, were I sitting at 18 and gotten a call from Cleveland, I would not have made the trade. Sure, you get an extra 1 next April, but then you get 0 1sts this April -- and we would have missed out on the top CB in the draft in the process.

I'm not going to lose any sleep wandering about a trade that Cleveland had no intention of making with the Bengals, but I think you'd have to consider moving back, and in fact if the deal was offered I probably would have.

Cleveland's 2nd round pick this season was essentially a 1st round pick that wouldn't have to be paid like a 1st round pick. In addition, the draft slots at the top of the 2nd round were highly coveted this year and additional picks could have been netted by yet another trade down from that spot. If that idea doesn't appeal to you then perhaps you stay put at #36 and draft the best available CB still on the board, probably choosing between Chris Houston or Eric Weddle, or turn your attention to other positions. That may or may not sound as attractive as Hall, but it doesn't have to. All it has to do is come reasonably close because next year is where you cash in the bigger chip.

Cleveland's 1st round pick is likely to be a very very good one, and if packaged with the Bengals own pick it's likely the Bengals would have enough ammunition to draft almost any player in next years draft. But even if the Cleveland pick is lower than expected it puts you that much closer to building the defense that is holding this team back.

[hrod382]

I would have given up the Hall pick without much hesitation.

Yeah, Hall is going to be solid for us but that Browns pick next year will be top 15 easy. We could survive with Deltha this year then address CB next year.

Next year will be loaded with CB's and LB's as well as DE Calais Campbell who is a 4-3 fit.

[Bobcat Bengal]

Inside the division is different to me for some reason. I think it boils down to the fact that I just wouldn't trust it. If, even through a fluke, it turns out that the trade works out for them and not for you you'd kick yourself forever. If somehow you were so much smarter, or they were so far over a barrell, that you could completely screw them on the trade I suppose it could make sense. But only if you were dead certain of that.

I mean, the Browns did that exact same thing last year when they moved down a spot and let the Ravens pick ahead of them to get Haloti Ngata.

[GapControl]

I dont believe in a hard-and-fast rule about trading within a division. You have to evaluate every trade on a case-by-case basis. And in the case of this year, were I sitting at 18 and gotten a call from Cleveland, I would not have made the trade. Sure, you get an extra 1 next April, but then you get 0 1sts this April -- and we would have missed out on the top CB in the draft in the process.

I'm not going to lose any sleep wandering about a trade that Cleveland had no intention of making with the Bengals, but I think you'd have to consider moving back, and in fact if the deal was offered I probably would have.

Don`t wander about in your sleep. You might hit a toe.

Now, if you are wondering about that Cleveland trade and can`t sleep... well... that`s bad too!

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I dont believe in a hard-and-fast rule about trading within a division. You have to evaluate every trade on a case-by-case basis. And in the case of this year, were I sitting at 18 and gotten a call from Cleveland, I would not have made the trade. Sure, you get an extra 1 next April, but then you get 0 1sts this April -- and we would have missed out on the top CB in the draft in the process.

I agree, if you think you're screwing the other team, then you win twice - you make a good trade, and you kill them! The whole don't-trade-in-your-division thing only makes sense if you're doing a trade that clearly has benefit for them, but if you think you're killing them, do it.

In this case, I'm on the fence - dropping from 18 to 35 isn't that big a deal in some drafts, but the guy we really wanted was RIGHT THERE, and we were lucky for that, so in essence you could say that pick was worth about a 14th to us. If I knew for sure that Cleveland pick next year would be a high one, I'd probably do the trade, but it might not be high. Especially if they let Quinn sit, they now have a very good O-line, a RB who probably has some miles left, and some decent receivers.

I'd have asked for a little more than the Cowboys got since we're 4 spots higher, if we could have gotten their 2nd and *3rd* this year and 1st next year, I'd have done it. You'd be taking picks from them that they desperately need, and I'm not that sold on Quinn, so I'd be happy to throw them in that spot.

[Dawg BpG]

No Matter what Phil Savage said, he would NEVER trade witha division opponent.

The driving force behind us moving up to get Quinn was Batlimore Called Quinn and told him if he was their, he was a Raven.

JMO but Phil Savage would rather eat his pick and take someone else in the second and 1st next year than give it to the Bengals.

[HairOnFire]

Don`t wander about in your sleep. You might hit a toe.

Now, if you are wondering about that Cleveland trade and can`t sleep... well... that`s bad too!

I can't help it, I'm a happy wandering kind of guy. So who want's some cabbage rolls and coffee?*

*I predict less that 5% of readers will get this joke.

The driving force behind us moving up to get Quinn was Batlimore Called Quinn and told him if he was their, he was a Raven.

Not to split hairs here, but Quinn claimed that in his phone conversation with Baltimore that he was told the Ravens were putting the finishing touches on a trade with Kansas City that would have resulted in him being selected by the Ravens with the 23rd pick, not the Ravens original 29th slot.

[duus]

I can't help it, I'm a happy wandering kind of guy. So who want's some cabbage rolls and coffee?*

Ah .. The Happy Wanderers. Nice.

[GapControl]

Don`t wander about in your sleep. You might hit a toe.

Now, if you are wondering about that Cleveland trade and can`t sleep... well... that`s bad too!

I can't help it, I'm a happy wandering kind of guy. So who want's some cabbage rolls and coffee?*

*I predict less that 5% of readers will get this joke.

cabbage rolls and coffee only go good with maryjane.

[Kazkal]

No Matter what Phil Savage said, he would NEVER trade witha division opponent.

The driving force behind us moving up to get Quinn was Batlimore Called Quinn and told him if he was their, he was a Raven.

JMO but Phil Savage would rather eat his pick and take someone else in the second and 1st next year than give it to the Bengals.

Um he implied he would trade with the bengals but the bengals would have been intrested probbley the ohio thing.

[bengal4life]

Don`t wander about in your sleep. You might hit a toe.

Now, if you are wondering about that Cleveland trade and can`t sleep... well... that`s bad too!

I can't help it, I'm a happy wandering kind of guy. So who want's some cabbage rolls and coffee?*

*I predict less that 5% of readers will get this joke.

The driving force behind us moving up to get Quinn was Batlimore Called Quinn and told him if he was their, he was a Raven.

Not to split hairs here, but Quinn claimed that in his phone conversation with Baltimore that he was told the Ravens were putting the finishing touches on a trade with Kansas City that would have resulted in him being selected by the Ravens with the 23rd pick, not the Ravens original 29th slot.

Hair I'm definitely part of the 95%. Probably before my time.

[HairOnFire]

Hair I'm definitely part of the 95%. Probably before my time.

No doubt. For the record the Happy Wanderers were a fictional polka band featered on the old SCTV television shows.

Ask your dad about them.

[bengalsfansince68]

I am probably old enough to be his dad, and I didn't get it.