Is Marvin forcing Tennessee's hand?

[ArmyBengal]

I see this a couple of different ways...

#1. Maybe the Bengals are making big noise over the possibility of taking Ginn at #18 to encourage another team to trade up and make a deal allowing the Bengals to trade down and obtain more picks.

#2. Maybe the Bengals really do believe Ginn will be an above average CB and will allow him to learn behind JJ and Deltha while reaping the benefits of his return abilities.

Anyway around, I wouldn't be overly excited with Ginn at #18, but with another DT in the fold (Please don't elaborate) and the posibility of Hartwell signing on, the Ginn pick looks less irritating than originally thought. Not to mention Marvin beating up the idea of strictly drafting for need and the desire to take the Best Player Available. Just throwing that out there for conversation...

WHODEY !!!

[ThortonMelon]

We all saw what Marvin said about Ted Ginn today, basically hinting that if Ginn is there he will be a Bengal. Although I love this idea I think Marvin may be have it in mind that he will express public interest in Ginn in order to force the Titans to trade up the one spot with the Bengals in order to get the player that they desperately want. Check out what Don Banks has to say about the Titans and Ginn:

3. Tennessee drafts Ohio State's Ted Ginn Jr. -- Talk about the convergence of need and first-round value. The Titans need a receiving threat after losing both Drew Bennett and Bobby Wade in free agency. They need a threat in the return game after having cornerback Pacman Jones benched for 2007 by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell. And they need big-play impact from someone other than Young, who at the moment appears to be their entire offense.

Ginn's mid-foot injury at the start of the BCS title game against Florida could wind up being a fortuitous break for the Titans, if he lingers on the board because of it to Tennessee at No. 19. Ginn only ran for NFL scouts two weeks ago, and while no one presumes he's 100 percent, his world-class speed will return at some point this summer. The thought of him and Young terrorizing opposing defenses together this season is intriguing, and would instantly create the most athletic quarterback-receiving tandem in the league.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...raft/index.html

If this is Marvin's plan then I really like it. Make the Titans pay us their third round pick to get their man. Otherwise, take Ginn ourselves.

[ArmyBengal]

I made the same comment in another post about Marvin using the talk to make something happen...

WHODEY !!!

[HairOnFire]

We all know that Mikey is an offensive guy at heart.

Yup, it's fair to say that he's the original Bastard Son of Paul Brown.

That said, eff Ted Ginn.

[GregCook]

Ted Ginn is a stud. He torched Hall, we'll see where Hall goes in the draft, but Ginn would make us all ask "Henry who?" by the end of September.

If bad luck runs our way and the top 2 CB's are gone and the top 2 DB's are gone and the top 2 DT's are gone and the top 2 LB's are gone, then heck yeah, take Ginn.

Ginn is like buying a Lexus 450 when you already have a Hummer and a MBZ 550 in the garage. A luxury, not a necessity. You guys are probably right, Marvin mess'n with a couple other teams.

[schroomytunes]

I am all for drafting the BPA, and if its Ginn then heck yeah, we can get DB's in the later rounds. Ginn gives us the 3rd Reciever we need allowing us to put Tab Perry in TE on 3rd downs. Ginn also upgrades the punt return game, and possibly allows us to cut Antonio Chapman as a cap casulty,

[mjm47]

The problem with drafting Ginn is more than one of immediate waste (which it is).

One of the reasons that the defense suffers is the imbalance between salaries allocated to defense and offense. Drafting Ginn not only means that we don't get a new defender (which we need), but also guarantees another huge chunk of cash against the cap is spent on offense the next four(?) years.

[duus]

Man, I hope I am wrong about this, but I just continue to have the name 'Peter Warrick' pop up in my head every time I hear Ginn mentioned.

[HoosierCat]

The problem with drafting Ginn is more than one of immediate waste (which it is).

One of the reasons that the defense suffers is the imbalance between salaries allocated to defense and offense. Drafting Ginn not only means that we don't get a new defender (which we need), but also guarantees another huge chunk of cash against the cap is spent on offense the next four(?) years.

Whoever we take at 18 won't cost a great deal. Last year's No. 18, Cowboys LB Bobby carpenter, signed for $12m over five years. Even allowing for a raise the price tag for our pick should come in under $3m a year. In a year when the Bengals have already moved major coin over to the defensive side of the ball (Geathers' deal, franchising Justin and letting Steinbach go), a Ginn pick would hardly re-imbalance the scales.

As for "immediate waste," I have to disagree. Our No. 1 and No. 2 WRs are 29 and 30. TJ ended last season with four cracked vertebrae. Of the two heirs apparent taken in the Marvin era, Washington is a Pat and henry is out for 8 games -- and maybe for good if he sneezes the wrong way. Behind them we have Tab and Chatman, both coming off season-ending injuries. And behind them we got a scrum o' scraps in Holt, Brazell and McNeal.

The biggest reason I object to Ginn, or any WR, is that I think the situations at RB and TE are worse. At TE we have Reggie Kelly and then no one outside the PS. At RB, Rudi is 28, has already taken a pounding, and his heir, Perry, is a bust.

I've heard a lot of praise this year for the Bengals foresight. Steinback leaves? Well, they were prepared, they got Whitworth last year. Simmons? Landon can move right in. Tory? James is ready to take over. But we are painfully short on such solutions at the offensive skill positions of WR, RB and TE. A pulled hammy here, a high ankle sprain there, and this team could be in real trouble, real fast.

[HairOnFire]

...Ginn would make us all ask "Henry who?" by the end of September.

And by the end of December we'll all ask how Ginn only scored half the TD's that Henry produced.

[Kazkal]

We will not take Tedd gin in round 1,

If marvin wanted ginn he woulden't have made a peep about him because who would expect us to take him?

And by the end of December we'll all ask how Ginn only scored half the TD's that Henry produced.

I'd question if he would even get half of henrys

[GregCook]

If Ginn were drafted he'd have more TD's since Henry would be chill'n till late November or maybe all season.

I hope the Bengals can find some find D-beef in rnd 1 & 2 but hey, they have enough holes, even on offense, nothing is out of the question if the right guy is available.

[mjm47]

The problem with drafting Ginn is more than one of immediate waste (which it is).

One of the reasons that the defense suffers is the imbalance between salaries allocated to defense and offense. Drafting Ginn not only means that we don't get a new defender (which we need), but also guarantees another huge chunk of cash against the cap is spent on offense the next four(?) years.

Whoever we take at 18 won't cost a great deal. Last year's No. 18, Cowboys LB Bobby carpenter, signed for $12m over five years. Even allowing for a raise the price tag for our pick should come in under $3m a year. In a year when the Bengals have already moved major coin over to the defensive side of the ball (Geathers' deal, franchising Justin and letting Steinbach go), a Ginn pick would hardly re-imbalance the scales.

As for "immediate waste," I have to disagree. Our No. 1 and No. 2 WRs are 29 and 30. TJ ended last season with four cracked vertebrae. Of the two heirs apparent taken in the Marvin era, Washington is a Pat and henry is out for 8 games -- and maybe for good if he sneezes the wrong way. Behind them we have Tab and Chatman, both coming off season-ending injuries. And behind them we got a scrum o' scraps in Holt, Brazell and McNeal.

The biggest reason I object to Ginn, or any WR, is that I think the situations at RB and TE are worse. At TE we have Reggie Kelly and then no one outside the PS. At RB, Rudi is 28, has already taken a pounding, and his heir, Perry, is a bust.

I've heard a lot of praise this year for the Bengals foresight. Steinback leaves? Well, they were prepared, they got Whitworth last year. Simmons? Landon can move right in. Tory? James is ready to take over. But we are painfully short on such solutions at the offensive skill positions of WR, RB and TE. A pulled hammy here, a high ankle sprain there, and this team could be in real trouble, real fast.

Any team that suffers a "pulled hammy here, a high ankle sprain there" is going to be in trouble - there's a reason that some guys are starters and some are depth.

Even if 3 mil/year isn't a huge sum, it's still more than a lot of starters get - and we'd be paying it somebody who would not but for an injury.

All in all, I think that we have pretty good depth at WR and RB. TE is a different story - but Tab Perry has flashed some ability and Antonio Chatman is a proven commodity - not a world-beater, but quality depth. Kenny Watson has shown that he can pick up yards when he needs to, picks up blitzes well in pass protection and catches well out of the backfield.

All in all, I don't see the need this year to pick up another starter on offense when there are simply more pressing needs on the other side of the ball.

You're talking about luxury picks, I'm talking about needs on the defense.

[WhoDeyForever]

If we were to trade one spot down to let tennessee get Ginn I would be dissappointed..I would love to have Teddy on this team..I think he can really help us out a lot..Yes I know, we would get some extra picks if we were to trade down but I don't think it would be worth it.

[jjakq27]

Any team that suffers a "pulled hammy here, a high ankle sprain there" is going to be in trouble - there's a reason that some guys are starters and some are depth.

Even if 3 mil/year isn't a huge sum, it's still more than a lot of starters get - and we'd be paying it somebody who would not but for an injury.

All in all, I think that we have pretty good depth at WR and RB. TE is a different story - but Tab Perry has flashed some ability and Antonio Chatman is a proven commodity - not a world-beater, but quality depth. Kenny Watson has shown that he can pick up yards when he needs to, picks up blitzes well in pass protection and catches well out of the backfield.

All in all, I don't see the need this year to pick up another starter on offense when there are simply more pressing needs on the other side of the ball.

You're talking about luxury picks, I'm talking about needs on the defense.

The flipside is, is there anyone out there on defense that can help this team as fast (this season) as taking Ginn would be and letting him return kicks? I think you can win a lot of games if two-thirds of your team can control games, ie: offense and special teams. Being able to dictate field position will win a couple of games a year by itself. Indy proved that you don't need the Ravens, Bears or the Chargers defense to win it all.

[palmmyjohnson]

I'm cool so long as it doesn't end up being the tragedy of trading down two spots with Steven Jackson on the board, only to take a risky pick like C. Perry. Then, after the fact, claim C. Perry was the number one RB on our board. What did we even turn that extra pick into? I don't remember.

[bengalsfansince68]

What the hell made Perry a risky pick? All the subsequent injuries?

I have no doubt that ML and his staff did have CP as the top back on their board. They liked Perry over Jackson for a reason. A reason that would be apparent if not for the injuries. I would never expect you to recognize that or that the guy we got was Stacey Andrews.

[derekshank]

What the hell made Perry a risky pick? All the subsequent injuries?

I have no doubt that ML and his staff did have CP as the top back on their board. They liked Perry over Jackson for a reason. A reason that would be apparent if not for the injuries. I would never expect you to recognize that or that the guy we got was Stacey Andrews.

Perry may not have been the #1 RB on their board... but I have no problem believing that Stephen Jackson wasn't their guy. Rudi is the exact same type of RB, and the Bengals clearly wanted a change of pace back. They certainly wouldn't have given up the pick to St. Louis (it was obvious they were going to take Jackson) if he was the guy the Bengals wanted.

By the way... what the Bengals picked up for trading out of the spot were Deltha O'Neil (from Denver) and Stacy Andrews (4th round pick from St. Louis). I'm not going to try to defend the Chris Perry pick... but the trades were worth it.

[HairOnFire]

The flipside is, is there anyone out there on defense that can help this team as fast (this season) as taking Ginn would be and letting him return kicks? I think you can win a lot of games if two-thirds of your team can control games, ie: offense and special teams. Being able to dictate field position will win a couple of games a year by itself.

Since when do you need to burn a 1st round pick to get a quality kick returner?

[ChadJohnson-85]

The flipside is, is there anyone out there on defense that can help this team as fast (this season) as taking Ginn would be and letting him return kicks? I think you can win a lot of games if two-thirds of your team can control games, ie: offense and special teams. Being able to dictate field position will win a couple of games a year by itself.

Since when do you need to burn a 1st round pick to get a quality kick returner?

Exactly, why not just take Revis or Ross and that way you get a CB and a KR/PR. I'm praying Ginn isn't there at 18 when the Bengals pick.

[palmmyjohnson]

What the hell made Perry a risky pick? All the subsequent injuries?

I have no doubt that ML and his staff did have CP as the top back on their board. They liked Perry over Jackson for a reason. A reason that would be apparent if not for the injuries. I would never expect you to recognize that or that the guy we got was Stacey Andrews.

OK, risky was a bad word to use, but Steven Jackson seemed the more complete back by far. As for the similarities between him and Rudi: they aren't clones, jackson had and has far better hands. If you want a change of pace back Jackson would have provided that plus made Rudi tradeable about now or a year ago. At the very least, he would help keep the mileage down. At any rate, I honestly didn't remember that we got Andrews with the 4th rounder. In retrospect, it was a good trade, but I would still rather have Jackson who seemed like so much more of a sure thing.

[bengalsfansince68]

By the way... what the Bengals picked up for trading out of the spot were Deltha O'Neil (from Denver) and Stacy Andrews (4th round pick from St. Louis). [i'm not going to try to defend the Chris Perry pick... but the trades were worth it.

Actually we got Deltha and Robert Geathers from Denver for dropping back from 17 to 24.

We got Stacey from the Rams for dropping back from 24 to 26.

[Kazkal]

If Ginn were drafted he'd have more TD's since Henry would be chill'n till late November or maybe all season

Ya but by game 11 Henry would have more

If we did trade with the titans be like a 6th or 7th ala Browns trade with ravens.

I'm cool so long as it doesn't end up being the tragedy of trading down two spots with Steven Jackson on the board, only to take a risky pick like C. Perry. Then, after the fact, claim C. Perry was the number one RB on our board. What did we even turn that extra pick into? I don't remember.

Chris perry wasen't a risk when we drafted him.

[derekshank]

If Ginn were drafted he'd have more TD's since Henry would be chill'n till late November or maybe all season

Ya but by game 11 Henry would have more

If we did trade with the titans be like a 6th or 7th ala Browns trade with ravens.

A 6th round pick from the Titans would probably be worth the trade down only 1 pick... but another option would be the Bengals and Titans swapping 1st rounders, and then the Titans giving a 5th for the Bengals 7th (A value difference for the trade of only 3.3). Either way... it would be fun having 2 picks in a row in a given round.

I just don't see it happening though. I very much doubt Marvin is trying to force any one team's hand, and if he were, I doubt it would work. Marvin is simply doing what he always does... giving absolutely no useful information to the media by leaving the option of taking a 1st round punter open. I do enjoy the speculation game though. Good times.

[HoosierCat]

All in all, I think that we have pretty good depth at WR and RB. TE is a different story - but Tab Perry has flashed some ability and Antonio Chatman is a proven commodity - not a world-beater, but quality depth. Kenny Watson has shown that he can pick up yards when he needs to, picks up blitzes well in pass protection and catches well out of the backfield.

Kenny Watson has the speed of a snail and behind him is nada but Mr. Glass. Tab remains a question mark; we don't know if that hip injury has permanantly taken anything off his edge. I remain unimpressed with our receiving corps behind Chad and TJ, except for Henry, who's out for our first, toughest, eight games -- and Chad and TJ are a combined 59 years old.

All in all, I don't see the need this year to pick up another starter on offense when there are simply more pressing needs on the other side of the ball.

What pressing needs on defense? I am assured by many vocal posters here that our D is fine, indeed that it is only people like me, using BS numbers like "30th ranked defense" who are making things look bad. I am assured that we don't need to bolster the d-line and that our run defense is solid. Have we not the next Adalius Thomas already on the team? Isn't Brooks being billed as this year's second first-round pick? Was the loss of Tory, Brian and K2 not addition by subtraction? Has the Bengals front office not shown its amazing planning abilities by having JJ, Landon and Ethan Kilmer on hand to step in? If all I have been assured is true, where are these needs on defense?