The Bengals have a problem

[The PatternMaster]

We all know what the problem with the Bengals is, unprofessional behavior that causes guys to make mistakes on and off the field.

It seems as if this offseason Marvin & Co. are indentifying guys who are either part of the solution or part of the problem and they are weeding out the problems. With the latest rumor of Deltha on the trading block, the coaches obiviously think he is a problem and they don't want anything to do with him, only one season removed from a Pro Bowl season in which he lead the league in Int's.

Personally I like O'Neal, I mean who doesn't want a guy who has the skills to be a shut down corner on their team. But O'Neal problem is consistancy and his approach to the game and the organization is finally starting to realize that character trumphs talent. When times get rough and things look bleak it will be the character of player that will decide the outcome not the talent.

I sincerely hope that going forward Mike Brown & Co. only consider bring in guys who are not only good players but good people, those players do exist. Unless Mike is willing to hire a psychologist to handle these troubled souls, which I doubt since he's already paying them millions of dollars to play a damn game, then employing guys who you know have what can be labeled as extreme character flaws is not how you build a dynasty.

[Kirkendall]

I agree. But I think this is a league problem -- not exclusive to the Bengals. We just earned "posterboy" status. This will always exist, like it has in the past with no instant media coverage, and will continue as long as talent supersedes character.

Now, I'm going to lunch and have myself a Sam Adams.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Now, I'm going to lunch and have myself a Sam Adams.

If you're going to lunch with Sam Adams, you probably ARE lunch.

[ArmyBengal]

Now, I'm going to lunch and have myself a Sam Adams.

Tell me this isn't some gay dream about a Bengals player and some lunch rendezvous !!!

WHODEY !!!

[Kirkendall]

Now, I'm going to lunch and have myself a Sam Adams.

Tell me this isn't some gay dream about a Bengals player and some lunch rendezvous !!!

WHODEY !!!

How do you think I get "source close to the situation" quotes?

No, I drank a Samuel Adams beer... then I drove.

[The PatternMaster]

Now, I'm going to lunch and have myself a Sam Adams.

Tell me this isn't some gay dream about a Bengals player and some lunch rendezvous !!!

WHODEY !!!

How do you think I get "source close to the situation" quotes?

No, I drank a Samuel Adams beer... then I drove.

Burn him!!!!!

I agree it is definitely a league wide problem and should be dealt with as such. I think the league should mandate that every team add a person who can help players deal with being a NFL player and everything that is expected from them.

Too many times you have guys who come literally nothing, no real family, poverty, the worst of the worst. So they go from being born and raised in that environment and to being a millionaire over night and the adjustment is hard and many guys make plenty of mistakes before they are able to adjust. There is no good reason for any player in the NFL to be involved in drug dealing, illegal weapons, or half the stupid stuff we see them getting arrested for on what seems like a daily basis.

But these guys are still in what I will call for lack of a better term a "ghetto mentality", there is a saying that goes "You can the boy out the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out the boy". In this case that is what we are seeing with guys like Chris Henry and Pacman Jones and it's sad.

[JoePong]

You're making a lot of assumptions and jumping to a lot of conclusions about O'Neal based on some stupid, unsubstantiated rumor-one that likely isn't even true.

[Kirkendall]

Too many times you have guys who come literally nothing, no real family, poverty, the worst of the worst. So they go from being born and raised in that environment and to being a millionaire over night and the adjustment is hard and many guys make plenty of mistakes before they are able to adjust. There is no good reason for any player in the NFL to be involved in drug dealing, illegal weapons, or half the stupid stuff we see them getting arrested for on what seems like a daily basis.

I'm going to put that under the Ive-got-no-one-other-than-myself-to-blame file. I've lived dirt poor most of my life and I believe I'm well adjusted -- unless I eat after midnight.. then I grow a spike and turn green. No more questions please.

You're making a lot of assumptions and jumping to a lot of conclusions about O'Neal based on some stupid, unsubstantiated rumor-one that likely isn't even true.

No he's not. He's speaking generally. As for the rumor you speak of, I can't argue against it. What we know, what's been said and the team getting sour on O'Neal, shopping him to another team was inevitable. I figured it would be a draft-day trade.

[The PatternMaster]

You're making a lot of assumptions and jumping to a lot of conclusions about O'Neal based on some stupid, unsubstantiated rumor-one that likely isn't even true.

Hey Joe, I like O'Neal just like you do, but c'mon man don't ignore the facts. The facts are O'Neal was in Marvin's dog house before he was the 8th Bengal arrested this season so when a guy who has a solid reputation for having inside information says that the Bengals are actively shopping Deltha, I would say that it could be true. O'Neal was under performing on the field and getting arrested off of it, if not for the Pro Bowl season of 2005 he would probably be cut by now.

[JoePong]

He had a bad year on the field because he played hurt all year. If he's healthy, I have no reason to believe he won't return to form. He's better than anyone we'd get in a trade, meaning we're a better team with him than without him. I don't know why some people are always so eager to trade away guys to make yet another hole on the defense which we would then have to try to fill. It's like they want to write off this year to try to fill out some future depth chart and think about how good we might be 2 or 3 years from now. Well, plans almost go like that. You can't count on the future (see Pollack and Thurman). You have to try to win now.

[Kirkendall]

He had a bad year on the field because he played hurt all year. If he's healthy, I have no reason to believe he won't return to form. He's better than anyone we'd get in a trade, meaning we're a better team with him than without him. I don't know why some people are always so eager to trade away guys to make yet another hole on the defense which we would then have to try to fill. It's like they want to write off this year to try to fill out some future depth chart and think about how good we might be 2 or 3 years from now. Well, plans almost go like that. You can't count on the future (see Pollack and Thurman). You have to try to win now.

OK, explain this.

Chick Ludwig: "O'Neal also needs to be shown the door. His head's not in the game."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/o...benglance2.html

Brad Johansan said on Bengals Line, O'Neal is not interested in playing football.

Or from Mark Curnutte:

Speaking of the locker room, Tory James, Deltha O'Neal and Johnathan Joseph were among the players who left almost every day during the season for lunch. They did not stay with their teammates. There was a lack of unity.

O'Neal has incredible talent... but so does Chris Henry. And most people have no problem cutting him on the spot.

If these things can be explained and countered, by O'Neal, then I'd have no problem keeping him. But if all this is true, then it's time to part ways.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Or from Mark Curnutte:

Speaking of the locker room, Tory James, Deltha O'Neal and Johnathan Joseph were among the players who left almost every day during the season for lunch. They did not stay with their teammates. There was a lack of unity.

Sounds like classic "Blazing Up" at lunch behavior. Hmmm...

[Kirkendall]

Or from Mark Curnutte:

Speaking of the locker room, Tory James, Deltha O'Neal and Johnathan Joseph were among the players who left almost every day during the season for lunch. They did not stay with their teammates. There was a lack of unity.

Sounds like classic "Blazing Up" at lunch behavior. Hmmm...

No WONDER why Tory James always got "burnt". I think you're onto something Bill.

[BengalszoneBilly]

No WONDER why Tory James always got "burnt". I think you're onto something Bill.

I know I am because I used to practice that very same "Blaze Up At Lunch" routine way back in the day. Along with "Wake-And-Bake" and "Bong Before Bedtime!"

[blueridge]

I could care less if a player is a "good guy" so long as he is a talented player who will help the Bengals win games. Obviously, a suspended player cannot help you win games. A talented jerk who keeps his nose clean is good enough for me.

[The PatternMaster]

No WONDER why Tory James always got "burnt". I think you're onto something Bill.

I know I am because I used to practice that very same "Blaze Up At Lunch" routine way back in the day. Along with "Wake-And-Bake" and "Bong Before Bedtime!"

Waking-and-Baking is quite possiblely the best thing ever, right behind getting oral sex while eating chocolate cake...

[duus]

I could care less if a player is a "good guy" so long as he is a talented player who will help the Bengals win games. Obviously, a suspended player cannot help you win games. A talented jerk who keeps his nose clean is good enough for me.

With ya. And I think that is the part of the Chris Henry situation that some fans miss. Would you mind having Lawrence Taylor, Michael Irvin, or Randy Moss (old one) on your team (not to unfairly compare those guys to the likes of Henry!)? You would absolutely love to have each of them when they were at their height. Did they get into trouble? Were they always suspected of different things, most 'not good'? What separates them from the Odell's and Chris Henry's of the world is that they stay on the field ... they play. I guess in the end, the point is that even if the guy is not the 'good character' guy, he at least finds the right smarts to not get into the type of trouble that puts him on the sideline. If a guy has a routine of being suspended, then eventually he is not worth the roster spot. Seems simple to me.

[HairOnFire]

He had a bad year on the field because he played hurt all year. If he's healthy, I have no reason to believe he won't return to form. He's better than anyone we'd get in a trade, meaning we're a better team with him than without him. I don't know why some people are always so eager to trade away guys to make yet another hole on the defense which we would then have to try to fill. It's like they want to write off this year to try to fill out some future depth chart and think about how good we might be 2 or 3 years from now. Well, plans almost go like that. You can't count on the future (see Pollack and Thurman). You have to try to win now.

I agree with most of the above.

That said, if the Bengals are shopping O'Neal then I think you have to support the head coaches decision for several reasons. First, he has more information than we do and has to be given the benefit of doubt that some of that information he has at his disposal might change our minds about whether O'neal should be kept.

Second, the head coach is ultimately responsible for how the team is built and needs to be given the freedom to pick and choose whatever players he wants...for whatever reason he wants. Who knows, Marvin may feelthat he CAN get a comparable player immediately and in so doing could lock down a CB spot for 5 or 6 seasons instead of 2.

Finally, while it's an absolute given that many plans won't succeed as intended it's ridiculous to go forward without planning for the future. And while it's reasonable to assume that the Bengals couldn't draft a player who was better immediately it's just as fair to assume that the Bengals won't retain O'Neal after his current contract expires. So if the trade return is acceptable, and that might be a deal breaker from the start, then I've got no problem with the idea of trading O'Neal...or almost any other player on the roster.