Which is worse?

[BengalszoneBilly]

A poll in the Reds Forum! Just in time for Opening Day! Go Reds!!!

[AGrizzlyBaer]

personlly no gambling is one of the golden rules of baseball, but breaking these records with the use of juice is as bad too

[Jam31]

Billy, I argue that Bonds is guilty of nothing.

He has been an MVP candidate since the 80s and he would have hit 70 homers last year if pitchers pitched to him.

This is the greatest baseball player of my generation (1978 on) and I enjoy watching him.

Have his skills diminished???

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

[BengalszoneBilly]

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

Now if that ain't the Raven's new "catch phrase", I don't know what is!!

[Jam31]

Seriously Billy, this guy is being condemned for being the greatest baseball player possibly ever. If one player did not need steroids it is him.

He has been a great player throughout his career and I think it is unfair to color him a cheater.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Seriously Billy, this guy is being condemned for being the greatest baseball player possibly ever.  If one player did not need steroids it is him.

He has been a great player throughout his career and I think it is unfair to color him a cheater.

Jam, I'm all for everyone having their day in court so to speak to prove their innocence, but LOOK at him in his early years, and look at him now. He's almost unrecognizable from then to now! With the facts about his personal trainers actions, and his sudden increase in power which aligns itself to the appearance of this trainer...well let's just say even Johnny Cochrane would have difficulty getting Barry free of these charges.

We shall see. And yes, he was a very good player to begin with, but I feel something else boosted him to this level, and it wasn't Red Bull!

[Kirkendall]

I don't think one bad thing justifies another. I don't think gambling is worse, nor do I think steroid use is worse. Both are bad and both should be banned from all athletic competitions; not just baseball.

That being sad, if I were to judge Barry Bonds himself and not generalize the whole 'roid issue; I'm leaning towards innocence for Bonds. Let me finish. First of all, if he was taking THG (I think that's what its called); then he was doing in within the confines of the game. They didn't ban the substance until this year so if he wanted he could take them; just like any baseball player willing to do so.

Secondly, I do think Steroids helps Bonds. I think the 'roids helps him have a more compact swing, shorter strides so he can wait a millisecond longer and still take a monster hit.

Don't get me wrong, Bonds was great before the accusations and he's great now. I agree with Jam though, innocent until proven guilty.

[Kirkendall]

Jam, I'm all for everyone having their day in court so to speak to prove their innocence, but LOOK at him in his early years, and look at him now. He's almost unrecognizable from then to now!

Billy, you're absolutely right, but we also have to acknowledge some people after years and years of hard work will develop as Bonds has. We see comparison photos of Barry 10 years ago and Barry today; that's a little unfair.

If you see photos of Barry by year, you will see a gradual growth; whether he got help or not, that remains to be seen.

I'm not naive, trust me man..

[Jam31]

If you see photos of Barry by year, you will see a gradual growth; whether he got help or not, that remains to be seen.

I could not agree more Kirk.

If someone gets big by working at it over a 10 year span, is it steroid use?

Its like the Salem Witch Trial, I assume ya'll heard about Prior being accused??

Watch Bonds now, he is still lethal.

He still hits roughly the same percentage of balls out of the park that he did two years ago.

Pitchers just DO NOT pitch to him.

If you throw him a strike, it is almost a 50% chance of being a home run. The 73 HR to 49 HR argument is bunk in my book.

He should be applauded for being arguably the most powerfuk and feared hitter of all time. Im trying not to be naive here but the guy has a track record of greatness.

[Kirkendall]

True that. But you have to at least acknowledge the possibility of his use; which if true, would be a damned shame.

Personally, I think the records has me more grounded on this issue and more open to suggestion than I usually am. Typically, if it's bad for the game I don't give a damned about excuses. But he has some of the more coveted records in baseball and I really hope everything comes out clean for Barry and the tradition of baseball.

I mean seriously, what would be better than Barry chasing Hammerin' Hanks record while he was cleared as playing the game legally and legit. I think we'll see a very soft side of Barry once he comes close to the record.. as a matter of fact, Barry has been relatively calm and cooperative this season.

[Jam31]

as a matter of fact, Barry has been relatively calm and cooperative this season.

Not that we are arguing opposing views, but you are right and his demeanor does not show someone who is getting off roids.

He has always been surly up until the push for 70...

I know the evidence points to his use, at least his personal trainer, it doesn't look good.

But whose to say that Barry never touched the stuff and his trainer operated behind his back??

I know its hard to conceive of.....but I still say he is innocent.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I know the evidence points to his use, at least his personal trainer, it doesn't look good.

That's an understatement if I've ever heard one.

[Kirkendall]

Yea, it's a pretty tough issue. I mean, you really have to go beyond the evidence and play near dumb if you think Barry is innocent; such as myself and Jam.

I just hope baseball in the end prevails.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I just hope baseball in the end prevails.

Amen brother Josh! And so far so good for our Reds by beating Maddux and taking two out of three from the Cubbies. I didn't forsee such an encouraging start to the season. I hope it, and Juniors success continues!

[Kirkendall]

I just hope baseball in the end prevails.

Amen brother Josh! And so far so good for our Reds by beating Maddux and taking two out of three from the Cubbies. I didn't forsee such an encouraging start to the season. I hope it, and Juniors success continues!

Half a game behind first brother man...

Jam - I feel sorry for Baltimore, I mean Yankees and Red Sox. They'd have to have a stellar season just to compete with the stigma going on in the AL East. But Baltimore had some great pickups this off-season; now they just need solid starting pitching.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Yeah. The Orioles are in one tough division. Too bad the American League doesn't play real baseball by dumping the DH!! Bunch of wussies!!

Whoa! That's the first basball oriented smack ever posted here I do believe!!

[Jam31]

Yeah. The Orioles are in one tough division. Too bad the American League doesn't play real baseball by dumping the DH!! Bunch of wussies!!

BillY: I could not agree anymore! I HATE THE DH! Its just not baseball

I will say this about my birds, with Lee Mazzili as manager we are now employing "little-ball" and I friggin love it.

Its the way ball is supposed to be played. Even when we were contenders in 96 and 97 and even when we had Earl Weaver and our last championship in '83, the Orioles way has been to sit back and wait for the three run homer.

So ugly....another "problem" with baseball.

But don't feel too sorry for me honestly because I have HOPE AGAIN!!!!!

You know what conclusion I have come to? Its that there has always been disparity in baseball, forever...so I accept that we are 3rd in the star wars race in our division but you know what, if we win anything it makes it that much better. Seriously how much fun is it to be a Yankee fan?? If they dont win the world series they are garbage.

It has to suck for Pittsburgh and teams like that, maybe your Reds included, but Im tellin ya, the Yanks haven't won a world series in 3 years so f** em.

I still hate them more than anybody but anytime we beat them it is a great feeling.

AS for our team, I like our young pitching, matt riley just contained the sox last nite and we split them 2 apiece, granted they didn't have Nomar but its tangible progress

Thank god for Lee Mazzili, Miggy Tejada, Javy Lopez, and Palmeiro

I still hate Angelos, he is such a bastard I wish he would sell the team.

If you guys are ever near Baltimore let me know and I would be more than glad to show you Camden Yards (if you haven't been there already)

You know ever since I was a kid (born in '78) I have always loved baseball more so than football. So I am really happy this time of year. Well that and my birds aren't out of contention yet!!!

[BengalszoneBilly]

Hey. I got an idea. Let's have my Reds and your Orioles meet up this October in...oh say the World Series? Sound good for you?

[Jam31]

Yes Billy that certainly works for me as well

...and thanks again for Frank Robinson!