marvin lewis nay on sapp

[Barbarian]

Kevnz, you're taking this a little too harsh and too personal aren't you???

The Bungles are the Bungles until they prove that they're the "Bengals"!!!

Kev, I could call them the Bungholes--whichever you prefer.

I'm in firm belief that Mike Brown started playing with the numbers in Warren Sapp's contract offer, thus turning off a premier player!!!

As we all know, you can't mess around with signing a top-notched agent like that. SIGN THE MAN FOR 4-YEARS, $16 MILLION AND GIVE YOURSELF SOME CREDIBILITY AT THE BARGAINING TABLE, FOR THE LOVE OF PETE!!!

When in doubt, blame the VILLAGE IDIOT.

[denverbengal]

I'm sure you've read this already on bengals.com, but I thought it was relevant to this topic.

Quote from Marvin Lewis...“We got what we wanted in free agency. We said from the day we finished (last season) we were going to add guys with athleticism and energy and that’s what we did. Big names don’t win football games for you. You need productive guys (to) win games.”

How much longer is Sapp going to be productive? Is it worth $16 mil and salary cap implications down the road? I say no, and I think ML said no too. You don't build a football team around overpaid, over-aged players. I don't think that was Mikey's decision. Whether that makes the organization look bad is another story. It really doesn't matter. What matters is how the team produces on the field next season. On-field production equals future interest by free agents.

As for the bungles comments...is that the name Paul Brown gave this team? Were they the bungles when they went to two superbowls in the 80's? I used to cringe every time I'd hear Berman on NFL Countdown referring to my favorite team as the bungles. It was nice to be able to watch it this past season without having to hear that word come out of his mouth. Now I have to read it from a fellow FAN?

[kevnz]

Kevnz, you're taking this a little too harsh and too personal aren't you???

The Bungles are the Bungles until they prove that they're the "Bengals"!!!

Kev, I could call them the Bungholes--whichever you prefer.

I'm in firm belief that Mike Brown started playing with the numbers in Warren Sapp's contract offer, thus turning off a premier player!!!

As we all know, you can't mess around with signing a top-notched agent like that. SIGN THE MAN FOR 4-YEARS, $16 MILLION AND GIVE YOURSELF SOME CREDIBILITY AT THE BARGAINING TABLE, FOR THE LOVE OF PETE!!!

When in doubt, blame the VILLAGE IDIOT.

Anytime a "fan" calls the team the U word I'll take it personal. Marvin Lewis is trying to change the image of this team, and it doesn't help to have fans needlessly rag on them. And I'm sorry if you think they haven't done enough to shed the image of the U's, but you're sadly mistaken. And you have been exceptionally negative about everything this offseason. I have no problem with Mike brown comments...Hell, I'm more than happy to make them when there is a need. But Marvin said he changed the numbers, not Brown. He didn't want to salary cap problems with it.

[ntpou]

He wanted too many years on the contract he 'll be dead weight in 2 years & we were giving 4

[Barbarian]

Anytime a "fan" calls the team the U word I'll take it personal. Marvin Lewis is trying to change the image of this team, and it doesn't help to have fans needlessly rag on them. And I'm sorry if you think they haven't done enough to shed the image of the U's, but you're sadly mistaken. And you have been exceptionally negative about everything this offseason. I have no problem with Mike brown comments...Hell, I'm more than happy to make them when there is a need. But Marvin said he changed the numbers, not Brown. He didn't want to salary cap problems with it.

See--there's the questioning of me being a "fan".

The fact is--is that I'm a frustrated fan. Any fan that isn't frustrated from the last 13-14 years is either a dog that likes to get kicked or an idiot.

Sure, Marvin Lewis can change the image of the team ON THE FIELD. However, the fact is that Marvin still has to deal with the Front Office Mis-Managements of this team--mainly, Mike Brown and his constant "BUNGLING".

The "BUNGLED" contract is definitely Mikey-Boy. I'm still stating that Mike Brown dropped the ball and Marvin covered for his inept ownership.

Furthermore, Kev, if you don't like my posts, then ignore them.

The Bungles are the Bungles until they prove that they're the "Bengals".

[denverbengal]

I think everyone here is frustrated with the last 13 years. Hearing that name used to refer to our team, whether it be from a fellow Bengals fan or a BROWNS fan simply adds to that frustration.

I don't think any of the posters on this board are dogs that like to get kicked or are idiots. We are true fans (I'm not implying that you're not, Barbarian). Anywone who would go through what we've been through and still love this team have to be. Reading that word is just a reminder of how dismal the past years have been for us. Things are changing for the better. Why not look ahead to a more optimistic future rather than remind us all of the hell that it's been to be a Bengals fan for the past 13 years?

[Barbarian]

Denver,

My guess is that you are basing this "new and improved" attitude on the "successes" of the "Bengals" last year, correct???

Well, I'm sorry, but I'm not that optimistic. For me, the improvement should have been seen in Marvin Lewis' 2nd Offseason Year. So, excuse me if I'm not seeing it. Fact is, is that I'm seeing the same mediocre signings and basically the same kind of 1st tier free agents turn their noses up at the Bungles or use them a LEVERAGE for another team to sign them at a higher price. The tell-tale sign should be when Bobby Taylor's agent didn't even CONSIDER the Bungles for a contract for his client because he knew MIKE BROWN would low-ball Taylor.

Another fact, is that an 8-8 MEDIOCRE season is hardly a turnaround.

Or am I the only one seeing that the "Bengals" have been through this before--8-8, then a dramatic dropoff, then 2-14???

So until they make the playoffs:

The Bungles are the Bungles until they prove they are the "Bengals".

[BengalszoneBilly]

So until they make the playoffs:

The Bungles are the Bungles until they prove they are the "Bengals".

Hey Barbarian, get ready to get your terminology changed this upcoming season. I truly believe we will make the playoffs. I have FAITH in MARVIN!!

[denverbengal]

My optimism is partially based on the results of last year. However the fact that ML is calling the personnel shots makes me more optimistic than our 8-8 record. Marvin knows how to build a football team because he's witnessed it first-hand. He knows that teams that are successful year after year are built through the draft...not by adding overpriced Bobby Taylor type players who really only want to play for the team willing to offer the most $$$. You can throw all the money that you want at big name free agents, but that doesn't mean you're going to be successful. There are numerous examples of that throughout the NFL. The character of a player is just as important to a team as his on-field abilities, and that's why Marvin is signing "no name" guys with lots of potential who WANT to be here. We may not do any better record-wise this year than we did last. ML even admitted it. But his long-term plan is a winner, and I think this team will be too eventually. And that's why I'm opimistic. Let's also not forget the FA period isn't over. I think we'll add two more players before training camp to fill some holes.

[Barbarian]

My optimism is partially based on the results of last year. However the fact that ML is calling the personnel shots makes me more optimistic than our 8-8 record. Marvin knows how to build a football team because he's witnessed it first-hand. He knows that teams that are successful year after year are built through the draft...not by adding overpriced Bobby Taylor type players who really only want to play for the team willing to offer the most $$$. You can throw all the money that you want at big name free agents, but that doesn't mean you're going to be successful.

Denver, if Marvin's calling the personnel shots, then I have no confidence in him either. Examples of why I don't:

1. Naming Palmer the starter BEFORE training camp starts. (I think Kitna deserved a shot at being the starter)

2. The Warren Sapp (no) Deal. (Whomever started playing around with the numbers bungled up the deal)

3. The same ole non-factor insignificant talent is being signed or courted to contracts (either players no other NFL team wanted or injured players are signing)

4. Naming Weathersby the starter at Cornerback (he didn't have a choice due to not signing any of the corners available earlier in the Free Agent signings)

Billy, I sure do hope so. I'm getting tired of referring to them as being the Bungles.

[Barbarian]

One more thing, Denver. I almost forgot about this:

"not by adding overpriced Bobby Taylor type players who really only want to play for the team willing to offer the most $$$. You can throw all the money that you want at big name free agents, but that doesn't mean you're going to be successful."

Something you are overlooking, Denver--the signing isn't necessarily talent but being able to say for once that the Bungles actually courted and signed a big named-free agent!!!

THAT'S CALLED CREDIBILITY--WHICH THE BUNGLES HAVEN'T HAD IN 13 YEARS.

[jditty47]

i have never thought of the bengals as the bungles...how can you be a bengal fan and treat them that way....

[kevnz]

One more thing, Denver. I almost forgot about this:

"not by adding overpriced Bobby Taylor type players who really only want to play for the team willing to offer the most $$$. You can throw all the money that you want at big name free agents, but that doesn't mean you're going to be successful."

Something you are overlooking, Denver--the signing isn't necessarily talent but being able to say for once that the Bungles actually courted and signed a big named-free agent!!!

THAT'S CALLED CREDIBILITY--WHICH THE BUNGLES HAVEN'T HAD IN 13 YEARS.

Nope, you're wrong. Marvin brought instant credibility to this team. Are we on par with the elite teams of the league? Not yet, but then about half the laugue would be in the same boat. The Bengals didn't agressively pursue any of the free agents that they lost out on, otherwise they'd be Bengals. Marvin is sculpting this team to be what he wants it to be, and he wants to pick up role players in free agency, and get stars from the draft so you don't have to pay outragous sums of money and lose out on the depth chart.

[denverbengal]

I apologize in advance for the book that I’m about to post, and my lack of general knowledge on how to use message boards.

(Quote) Denver, if Marvin's calling the personnel shots, then I have no confidence in him either. (Quote)

Is this an April fool's joke? Are you pulling my leg? No confidence in Marvin? Seriously, he pulled off one of the largest turnarounds in NFL history last year because of his personnel moves (i.e. Hardy, James, Thornton…). He's single-handedly changed not only the attitude of the entire team, but the country as well. It's amazing how the comments I used to get about being a BENGALS fan in CO changed from the start of the season to the end. I was laughed at before...not any more. People in Denver (and the rest of the country) know who Marvin Lewis is. I doubt I could say the same of many of his predecessors.

(Quote)Examples of why I don't:

1. Naming Palmer the starter BEFORE training camp starts. (I think Kitna deserved a shot at being the starter)(Quote)

CP is the quarterback of the future for this team. He has a stronger arm than Kitna, better mobility, and more potential. The sooner he starts and gets experience, the sooner he becomes a pro-bowl qb. While Kitna had a career year by his standards, he lost as many games as he won for the BENGALS. He's not going to get any better, and 8-8 doesn't cut it. Plus without having to go through a qb competition, CP will get the majority of reps in camp making him more ready for the season.

(Quote) 2. The Warren Sapp (no) Deal. (Whomever started playing around with the numbers bungled up the deal) (Quote)

Why sacrifice being able to sign new talent in years to come? Signing him would have hurt the team in the long run. I do think though, that they shouldn't have courted him in the first place. It does make us look bad.

(Quote) 3. The same ole non-factor insignificant talent is being signed or courted to contracts (either players no other NFL team wanted or injured players are signing) (Quote)

Re-signing Beckett is a plus. Webster was called by ML "the next best thing to Ray Lewis." Plus he has an awesome locker room presence, and tenacity, and he frees up Simmons and Hardy to play the outside. Bobbie Williams was courted by 3 other teams, and has playoff experience. Herring, I don't know much about, but his broken forearm injury, shouldn't take away from his playing ability this year. Plus he's won a superbowl. We got screwed on the Shayne Graham ordeal, but he's one of the best kickers in the league and keeping him was a good move. Let's not forget who's not going to be here either...ARTRELL HAWKINS!!

(Quote)4. Naming Weathersby the starter at Cornerback (he didn't have a choice due to not signing any of the corners available earlier in the Free Agent signings) (Quote)

I have to partially agree with you on this one. Weathersby scares me a bit. But FA isn't over, and we don't know who's going to be available after June 1st. Plus, I think we'll take a cb in the draft who will at least make Weathersby better by making him compete.

(Quote) Something you are overlooking, Denver--the signing (of Bobby Taylor) isn't necessarily talent but being able to say for once that the Bungles actually courted and signed a big named-free agent!!! (Quote)

One trip to the playoffs combined with ML's reputation as a player's coach will take care of that. It's already starting. Darrell Gardener has already said he wants to play for ML (and I predict he’ll be a BENGAL come June 3rd). Sapp said he liked and respected ML. Would Sapp have even been able to keep a straight face when he said he was interested in playing for the BENGALS if Coslett or LeBeau were coach, and we were 3-13? Plus, I'd rather the BENGALS be a New England/Carolina type team that is successful without having to sign the big names just to get over their own inferiority complex (ala Oakland).

(Quote)THAT'S CALLED CREDIBILITY--WHICH THE BUNGLES HAVEN'T HAD IN 13 YEARS. (Quote)

Winning will provide all the credibility the BENGALS need. Be patient. It will happen.