A chance to sign Steiny?

[Kirkendall]

They won't franchise Steinbach. If they did, they would make him the highest paid lineman on the team and punish Levi and Willie for signing early

Think guaranteed money. Levi and Willie will still make out just fine.

T-minus 2 days from the beginning of the NFL season. Right about now I'm not worried about Steinbach's contract status. If we sign him to a long-term deal or let Whitworth step in, I think we'll be more than fine. Marvin, Mike, and Katie will make the right decision on it.

I'm so pumped up for this weekend I can hardly wait. Thursday I get to cheer for the Dolphins, Saturday OSU, and then of course Sunday finally ends our endless offseason.

Wait a second. Did you just comment on a thread that's discussing Steinbach's contract (sign, again) about how you're not worried about it?

I'm just teasing.

[HairOnFire]

... and did Frozen Rucker do anything impressive? I felt he is some kind of project for Marvin...

Impressive? I'd say he flashed exceptional technique, a great feel for working through trash, outstanding pursuit skills, a steady ability to defeat blocks and get pressure in the backfield, and last but not least...more ability to block and deflect passes than any defensive lineman on the roster.

Wanna negative? He doesn't seem to have much of a finishing burst so he may be destined to be one of the pass rushers who always comes close but rarely nets the sack. Then again, he did produce a couple.

Still, if you're determined to hate the guy before giving him a chance...I'd focus on the lack of burst....because it's about all you've got to work with.

Frostee is gonna be a badass.

[ArmyBengal]

I just don't see anyone else doing what Steinbach does for this team. His versatility alone makes him worth the money. Is it a ton of cash for yet another o-lineman and sooner or later the defense will come around as well, but you can't let him walk hoping that happens. Depth is a good thing and if we insert Whitworth and let Steinbach go, the depth Marvin has tried to build takes a hit. Sooner or later a big name player is going to leave. If it's Steiny, I'll be ok with it, but until that stellar defensive players appears, I say keep him...

WHODEY !!!

[walshfan]

Whitworth or Kooistra will play guard next season..

cap money will start going to some defense...

Extend madieu and possibly Deltha..Hell maybe even Justin!

[Kazkal]

Landon and Geathers also both go up this year.

[walshfan]

Landon and Geathers also both go up this year.

cap for offense this season and defense next year.

[Spain]

Bach is the inly other hall of fame player besides Carson on the team. However thats one tough call. Remeber if J smith bust out we might have to franchise him. I would say transition Bach.

[derekshank]

I'll say it again... and then I'll be done. It just doesn't make sense to use a 2nd round pick on a back-up O-lineman. We clearly had a mindset to go defense in this draft... so the only possible way drafting Whitworth makes sense is if the plan was to let one of the O-lineman go, making it possible to free up money for defensive spending.

I know you guys want to re-sign Steiny... but we've made our bed. We drafted Whitworth, and extended Levi and Willie. The decision to move on has been made. Outside of a possibility of a terrible injury to one of the key guys, re-signing Steiny is a pipe-dream.

If Marvin and Bengals management were as high on him as most of you are, they would have paid him whatever he was asking, and let Willie walk. But they didn't. They picked the more important positions (tackles) to pay, and their going to give the monsterous Whitworth a chance to play.

The writing is on the wall... the decision has pretty much been made. It's time to come to grips with it.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

It's doable but it's in the lateryears when Defensive players contracts start to going up,How much money are we spending on offense total right now?

There's always that balance issue. But you also have to ask yourself: who on the defense are we looking at having to pony up big money for?

Anyone here want to spend big money on Justin Smith? I would but I'm in the minority, and even I'm willing to admit he's not worth top 10 money.

Deltha's here through '08. Madieu will be up in '07 but safety isn't a huge money position.

Simmons is probably gone after his deal runs out in '08. Odell and Pollack are signed through '09. Landon and Caleb are up after this year, I believe, but neither have done anything to warrant top dollar.

Geathers and Smith are both up after '06 but neither should cost a lot to re-sign. Thornton is here through '08.

In short, there simply isn't a lot of call for big $$$ on the defeisive side right now, because we haven't got anyone worth big money. Maybe that changes after this season, maybe a bunch of guys have breakout years, but if that's the case, the Bengals will have to deal with it then. For now, I'll worry about balance when our p*ss-poor D catches up to out awesome o.

Gotta think that Odell, if he gets his s**t together, will eventually want to re-neg that 2nd round deal. Same for Peko or Rucker if either turns out to be a starter with their 3rd and 4th. If Smith leaves, we need to either sign a real FA (which may not save us any money) or use a very high pick on DE (which they don't do with the "best player available" mantra). Otherwise, our line looks like Swiss cheese again. We'll also be needing a DT fairly soon, as Sam is old. Thornton may be here through '08, but despite the preseason, if someone hasn't beaten him out by that point it doesn't bode well for the Bengals. I also think Madieu will cost more than you think. And letting Tory walk assumes Joseph turns into the lockdown corner he needs to be, that Ratliff didn't manage to pull off. If he doesn't, there's another FA. So I think there are a lot of positions that could jump up and cause problems.

Bottom line is, this is the NFL, and things change quickly. We may think we have the D taken care of now, but it won't stay that way forever, and having too much money locked on offense may eventually cause problems.

The choice now is 1) let Steinbach, a fantastic young O-lineman, go; or 2) take money from the defense. The smart move was to let Willie walk or at least let him test the FA waters and match any reasonable offer. That's the Patriot model (where's McGinest now?). At some point you have to choose between loyalty and winning.

[ArmyBengal]

As for Odell, he has no leverage in redoing a contract... One more missed / failed test and he's done for a whole season, so I'm not worried about him. As for Peko or Rucker, let's let them play a couple of seasons before we say what we do or don't have to worry about in regards to their contracts.

I know Steinbach is a long shot, but I just don't like it. Plain and simple, just don't like it !!!

WHODEY !!

[HoosierCat]

Fair enough... but who knows what free agency will bring next year. If I'm not mistaken, you are always the one complaining (until we brought in Adams) that we never go after a big name.

Actually, my complaint is they never seriously pursue top-tier FAs, which Sam wasn't. And I don't expect that to change. The Bengals are simply never, ever going to spend big money in FA. They will, however, spend big money to keep homegrown talent. If Justin leaves, they will plug that hole with either a draft pick or one of the other DEs on the roster; don't hold your breath for a deep dive into FA.

[derekshank]

Fair enough... but who knows what free agency will bring next year. If I'm not mistaken, you are always the one complaining (until we brought in Adams) that we never go after a big name.

Actually, my complaint is they never seriously pursue top-tier FAs, which Sam wasn't. And I don't expect that to change. The Bengals are simply never, ever going to spend big money in FA. They will, however, spend big money to keep homegrown talent. If Justin leaves, they will plug that hole with either a draft pick or one of the other DEs on the roster; don't hold your breath for a deep dive into FA.

I won't... but you must admit that Marvin probably isn't happy with the disparity in spending. If we continue to spend over the top money on offense, the trend will never change.

Whether or not we have any guys that you view as worth large money, we do have guys that will need re-signing. Justin Smith, Landon Johnson, Geathers, and S. Smith are all FA's after this year. Madieu, Ratliff, and B-Rob are only signed through the '07 season. Deltha is only signed through the '08 season.

Management has shown the ability to re-sign offensive guys (like Chad and Carson) before their contracts are up. Why not do the same with our staples on defense? I would certainly like to see Smith and Landon re-signed, as well as Madieu and Deltha extended. We might never go with a huge FA... but if we want to continue getting better, we're going to have to spend money on more than the O-line.

[HoosierCat]

Fair enough... but who knows what free agency will bring next year. If I'm not mistaken, you are always the one complaining (until we brought in Adams) that we never go after a big name.

Actually, my complaint is they never seriously pursue top-tier FAs, which Sam wasn't. And I don't expect that to change. The Bengals are simply never, ever going to spend big money in FA. They will, however, spend big money to keep homegrown talent. If Justin leaves, they will plug that hole with either a draft pick or one of the other DEs on the roster; don't hold your breath for a deep dive into FA.

I won't... but you must admit that Marvin probably isn't happy with the disparity in spending. If we continue to spend over the top money on offense, the trend will never change.

Whether or not we have any guys that you view as worth large money, we do have guys that will need re-signing. Justin Smith, Landon Johnson, Geathers, and S. Smith are all FA's after this year. Madieu, Ratliff, and B-Rob are only signed through the '07 season. Deltha is only signed through the '08 season.

Management has shown the ability to re-sign offensive guys (like Chad and Carson) before their contracts are up. Why not do the same with our staples on defense? I would certainly like to see Smith and Landon re-signed, as well as Madieu and Deltha extended. We might never go with a huge FA... but if we want to continue getting better, we're going to have to spend money on more than the O-line.

Marvin has said before that they need to move money to the defensive side of the ball. I still believe that was the biggest driver behind the Chris Perry pick, which, had he worked out, would have given them the option of using the money they eventually spent on Rudi on the D.

I wouldn't object to early re-signings on the D, I just think that we aren't exactly flush with guys who are going to cost a lot. Certainly not at the Carson/Chad/Willie/Levi level.

[richmond_mat]

I won't... but you must admit that Marvin probably isn't happy with the disparity in spending. If we continue to spend over the top money on offense, the trend will never change.

Whether or not we have any guys that you view as worth large money, we do have guys that will need re-signing. Justin Smith, Landon Johnson, Geathers, and S. Smith are all FA's after this year. Madieu, Ratliff, and B-Rob are only signed through the '07 season. Deltha is only signed through the '08 season.

Management has shown the ability to re-sign offensive guys (like Chad and Carson) before their contracts are up. Why not do the same with our staples on defense?

Who on a 28th ranked defense deserves anything but a kick in the arse?

The big dollars will be given to a defensive player as soon as one is worth it. Deltha is the only one that you could make a case for.

Hopefully after this season I'll be singing a different tune.

[Kazkal]

They may not have fat checks coming to them but still decent contracts add up when theres alot of them.

[derekshank]

Who on a 28th ranked defense deserves anything but a kick in the arse?

The big dollars will be given to a defensive player as soon as one is worth it. Deltha is the only one that you could make a case for.

Hopefully after this season I'll be singing a different tune.

Madieu Williams deserves a kick in the arse huh? If we don't re-sign Justin Smith, there's a drop-off there down to either Geathers or Rucker. Do you really want either of them being an every down DE? Yeah... let's kick all of the starters for a team that led the league in turnovers right off the team. Intelligent.

[HoosierCat]

Yeah... let's kick all of the starters for a team that led the league in turnovers right off the team. Intelligent.

It isn't a matter of wanting to kick all the starters off the team, it's just that with a couple exceptions, our defense is at best a pretty average group. The big reason there's a disparity between what the bengals spend on offense and what they spend on defense is because there is a crapload more talent on our offense, and talent costs.

Yes, the Bengals will have to spend some money to re-sign guys like Landon and Geathers and S. Smith, but it's far from clear that doing so will take so much that it would preclude them from re-signing Steinbach. A lot is going to depend on what happens with some of the older players on the D, I think. Guys like James, Robinson and even Sam are guys that are going to be around what, a year or two beyond this season, at most? I also have to wonder what happens to Thornton if his play doesn't come up a notch this season. He has a big number for his performance (tho like Justin I think he gets more than his fair share of crap).

We'll just have to wait and see.

[derekshank]

Yeah... let's kick all of the starters for a team that led the league in turnovers right off the team. Intelligent.

It isn't a matter of wanting to kick all the starters off the team, it's just that with a couple exceptions, our defense is at best a pretty average group. The big reason there's a disparity between what the bengals spend on offense and what they spend on defense is because there is a crapload more talent on our offense, and talent costs.

Yes, the Bengals will have to spend some money to re-sign guys like Landon and Geathers and S. Smith, but it's far from clear that doing so will take so much that it would preclude them from re-signing Steinbach. A lot is going to depend on what happens with some of the older players on the D, I think. Guys like James, Robinson and even Sam are guys that are going to be around what, a year or two beyond this season, at most? I also have to wonder what happens to Thornton if his play doesn't come up a notch this season. He has a big number for his performance (tho like Justin I think he gets more than his fair share of crap).

We'll just have to wait and see.

I understand that the individual talent on defense isn't as high as the offense. But we're going to continue to draft high-talent guys on defense, and eventually guys like Madieu, Pollack, and hopefully guys like Peko and Odell will perform in a way to earn big contracts.

In the meantime, I really think we need to spend the money on the D-Line. Our line should be good this year... and it's not because of one or two players. It's the depth. Re-sighing guys like Justin Smith, B. Robinson and Thornton becomes important. Eventually you hope that the younger guys begin to out-perform them, and become starters... but if we let those guys go when their contracts are up, our depth takes a substantial hit.

On a defense like this one where you don't have big names like Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, you spread the spending around, and get role players... like in New England. It doesn't cost a ton less than having big names... it's just a different philosophy, and it seems clearly the one we've adopted from the beginning. It's going to take money to retain the depth we've all been salivating over this pre-season... and the first step in doing it is letting a talent like Whitworth play at a cheaper price than Steiny.

[princeton]

I figure that Mike Brown overpays for a DE (Smith) before he overpays for an OG (Steinbach)

[ArmyBengal]

I figure that Mike Brown overpays for a DE (Smith) before he overpays for an OG (Steinbach)

And THAT would piss me off beyond all belief !!!

WHODEY !!!

[richmond_mat]

Who on a 28th ranked defense deserves anything but a kick in the arse?

The big dollars will be given to a defensive player as soon as one is worth it. Deltha is the only one that you could make a case for.

Hopefully after this season I'll be singing a different tune.

Madieu Williams deserves a kick in the arse huh? If we don't re-sign Justin Smith, there's a drop-off there down to either Geathers or Rucker. Do you really want either of them being an every down DE? Yeah... let's kick all of the starters for a team that led the league in turnovers right off the team. Intelligent.

Get Williams on the field. Yeah he has been good when healthy but so has...................

A RUNNING BACK NAMED PERRY.

As far as all the analysis of talent and $$$ I'll leave it to what Hoosier said so well.

[AMC]

I see them letting Smith AND Steinbach go to the open market. I think they are more likely to sign up Landon and Madieu to long term deals.....

[HoosierCat]

I understand that the individual talent on defense isn't as high as the offense. But we're going to continue to draft high-talent guys on defense, and eventually guys like Madieu, Pollack, and hopefully guys like Peko and Odell will perform in a way to earn big contracts.

Oh, there's no doubt they will eventually earn a big payday if they perform. But just looking at the situation right now, the only guy on the D that I think you could make an argument for dropping big money on in 2007 is Justin. And it's still not clear if he even has a future here if the D goes 3-4.

In the meantime, I really think we need to spend the money on the D-Line. Our line should be good this year... and it's not because of one or two players. It's the depth. Re-sighing guys like Justin Smith, B. Robinson and Thornton becomes important. Eventually you hope that the younger guys begin to out-perform them, and become starters... but if we let those guys go when their contracts are up, our depth takes a substantial hit.

Well, that remains to be seen. Thornton is here through '08 anyhow, and Robinson through 2007. John's never become the stud some thought he could be, and will be 33 in '09. Robinson will be 34 in 2008. I don't think it would be wise to pour a lot of money into a couple agining, average, defensive linemen. Certainly there's no rush to do it, it's very doubtful they will be in any serious demand once they hit the market. Who knows, one or both of them may even be ready to call it a career by then.

On a defense like this one where you don't have big names like Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, you spread the spending around, and get role players... like in New England. It doesn't cost a ton less than having big names... it's just a different philosophy, and it seems clearly the one we've adopted from the beginning. It's going to take money to retain the depth we've all been salivating over this pre-season... and the first step in doing it is letting a talent like Whitworth play at a cheaper price than Steiny.

The Bengals are already spreading the money around. If there was more talent on defense, there'd be more money there. There's no reason they can't continue to do that, and pay Steinbach as well. A choice only comes if they need big bucks to pay for an emerging defensive star or two. I certainly hope such defensive stars emerge, but right now, they ain't there.

As for Steinbach and Whitworth, I think we are a better team with both of them. You can never have too much o-line depth (ask the Chiefs). Not that I think we couldn't withstand losing Eric, we could. But I see no reason to shove him out the door just so we can have $5 million to spend on some as-yet-to-be-identified defensive star. Let's see someone show they are worth $5 million/year on defense first.

[walshfan]

money of offense this year..

money of defense next year.

extend Madiue and Deltha ..maybe justin

getting rid of Thornton and James will open up even more cap space

[derekshank]

Who on a 28th ranked defense deserves anything but a kick in the arse?

The big dollars will be given to a defensive player as soon as one is worth it. Deltha is the only one that you could make a case for.

Hopefully after this season I'll be singing a different tune.

Madieu Williams deserves a kick in the arse huh? If we don't re-sign Justin Smith, there's a drop-off there down to either Geathers or Rucker. Do you really want either of them being an every down DE? Yeah... let's kick all of the starters for a team that led the league in turnovers right off the team. Intelligent.

Get Williams on the field. Yeah he has been good when healthy but so has...................

A RUNNING BACK NAMED PERRY.

As far as all the analysis of talent and $$$ I'll leave it to what Hoosier said so well.

Really? That's your argument? 2-Carry Perry vs. Madieu Williams? Wow... where do I start? Madieu had one injury. He started his entire rookie year though, and is a staple of this defense. If you are really going to compare the two players, your credibility is in serious doubt.

Chris Perry, back-up, and the offense moves along without a hitch while he's gone.

Madieu Williams... KK is his back-up. The defense gave up only 9 points/game in the 4 he started, and 26 points/game in the 12 he was missing. Yeah, they're the same.

Also... in reference to keeping the players we have, yes I would like to, unless we can get a serious upgrade. I have no desire to let Thornton go earlier than his contract indicates, unless there is something better to be had. We all love this offense because it has been together so long. The defense will only get better with familiarity. Continue building through the draft... and let our current starters eventually become the depth. When they become too pricey, we can cut ties, and we should be well prepared for it... but you don't draft Whitworth to be a long-term back-up. That is how you get locker-room problems. He's too talented to be a back-up.