Outside the Lines

[Dadraftnick]

The latest from Pro football talk .com

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In an item recently broadcast on ESPN's Outside the Lines, the lawyer for the woman who has filed pending charges of harassment and battery against rookie defensive end Frostee Rucker said that information regarding the allegations was offered to the Cincinnati Bengals, but the team declined.

"The Bengals indicated they had all the information that they needed," said Don Cohn, who represents Joelle Barchan. "My investigator advised them we had additional information they did not have that would be extremely important to consider. And the Bengals said they didn't want it."

We've obtained a copy of the transcript of the segment, and it was a powerful indictment (in our view) of both Rucker and the team that spent a third-round draft pick on him.

Barchan told ESPN that Rucker had gotten violent with her "at least ten times" while they dated. "I always had bruises, my arms were always in pain. He would pull my hair a lot really hard. He flicked me in the mouth with his first two fingers."

The incident that prompted charges filed last month against Rucker occurred in August 2005. "I had bruises . . . real swollen on the temple of my head," Barchan told ESPN. "Right under my eye it was red and swollen, kind of bruised. I had a scratch on my lip. I had a huge scratch on my neck."

It's not the first time Rucker has faced allegations of misconduct with women. He was accused of rape at age 13, but was acquitted in juvenile court.

Said the alleged victim, Michelle Cardin, to ESPN, "He started putting his hands down my bathing suit bottoms, then he started to take them off and I said no. He decided to pull off my bathing suit bottom. And he forced himself on me. He took both of my hands and put them above my head. Then he went inside of me. Afterwards he just pushed me off of him. He started telling me I better not tell anybody. I pushed him out the door and then I started to shut it and he yelled don't tell anybody."

Letters submitted regarding Rucker's athletic promise might have saved him. "They were talking about how good a football player he was," Cardin said, "his grades and everything, and how could somebody who was so good at all these things do something like that?"

Rucker's college career began at Colorado State, where he allegedly raped a female in 2002. She spoke anonymously to ESPN.

"He had pushed me down on the bed and just started to get pretty aggressive," she told ESPN. "I had told him to stop, and he continued to force himself on me. He was just like a different person. He had a different look in his eyes. And it frightened me. It definitely made me scared."

After Rucker was arrested for the incident, another woman claimed that he exposed himself to her in a computer lab.

Rucker pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of harassment, and was kicked out of school. USC welcomed him with open arms.

Both Rucker and USC coach Pete Carroll declined to be interviewed by ESPN. The Bengals offered their now-standard response, which should be put on a laminated, wallet-sized card and given to everyone in the organization for quick and easy reference:

"Though a situation such as [insert player name here] is clearly of concern to the team, Bengals policy holds that it is inappropriate to comment on a player's legal matter while it remains only at the stage of charges being filed. With respect to the presumed innocence of all persons, any potential comment from the team would await the player's case being resolved in the courts."

Nicely done, Marvin. As we recently remarked during a guest spot on a radio show in the Queen City, the only truly safe place for Cincinnati residents is Paul Brown Stadium during a Bengals game -- when guys like Rucker and Chris Henry and A.J. Nicholson and Odell Thurman and Fahu Tahi necessarily will be at a safe distance from the generally law-abiding public.

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Rucker allegedly began his rape career at the age of 13.

He allegedly began his collegian rape career in 2002.

Now that he has been drafted will he start a Pro rape career ? Sorry I couldn't resist.

At least one of his girlfriends says she roughed her up at least 10 times and who knows how many women he has hurt or raped that are too afraid to speak.

All of these women cant be making this stuff up.

I have to ask you, is this guy even worth giving him a shot at making the team,wouldn't it be better to cut your losses now,before he is taking up cap space and has a signing bonus that will keep us from cutting ?

Everything points to this guy being a sexual preditor,and if he is, they seldom area able to change.

Is a guy that was rated as 15th DE in the draft (pro foothall weekly),a 5th rnd to UFA,a guy that at his best had 6.5 sacks,guy that has history of shoulder and toe surgery worth all this??

Something else to consider,if these women were trying to get money out of Rucker. they would not have went to teams and told (tried to in the Bengals case) them about this stuff, they would have kept their mouth shut until after he was drafted so they could make more money.

[ArmyBengal]

I have never stated I agree with the picks or think there wasn't anyone else there that we could have taken. I merely state that there is more to the whole draft thing than what we know prior to the draft and my concern is what they do on the field. If they fail to make it to the field or make an impact for the organization, then sure, call it the worst draft ever. However, we haven't seen that, so I think that statement is half cocked at best and premature.

Well, it's always nice to be able to agree to disagree !!!

WHODEY !!!

[schweinhart]

Frostee was a risky pick, but he does address a need. One that a lot of people wanted addressed in the 1st round, so they took the best DE available, who happened to drop because of the character issues.

No doubt the Bengals addressed the DE need in their estimation. But I'd say the real risk is still talent. To say Frostee dropped to the 3rd round because of character issues seems to me the most preposterous allegation I've read yet.

[jjakq27]

It'll pass soon enough. Lawrence Phillips, Maurice Clarett and even Warren Sapp all had baggage prior to the draft. If Frostee doesn't make it here or if Henry or Nicholson get time for their offenses, there will be someone to fill their void right away.

[derekshank]

Frostee was a risky pick, but he does address a need. One that a lot of people wanted addressed in the 1st round, so they took the best DE available, who happened to drop because of the character issues.

No doubt the Bengals addressed the DE need in their estimation. But I'd say the real risk is still talent. To say Frostee dropped to the 3rd round because of character issues seems to me the most preposterous allegation I've read yet.

Okay... but don't mock me for it. Mock the sites directly after the draft that said "first round talent that dropped because of character issues." It wasn't really my claim, because I've never seen him play. But to help the case of this claim... his stats were almost exactly the same as 1st round pick Tamba Hali. Frostee had a couple fewer sacks, but several more tackles in the backfield.

[Stripes]

It seems the thread has developed into whining about taking a risk on Frostee. Isn't that what Marvin has always done, and done very well?

I don't care about the college stats, I don't care about the PFT crap. Marvin knows more than we know. Marvin knows more than PFT knows.

[HairOnFire]

A year from now I fully expect to watch an ESPN special that closes with a shot of Dadraftnik walking slowly down a loney beach, staring off into the distance, with the pain of a wasted draft pick etched accross his sad face. The piano musics plays over the sound of the crashing surf as the camera zooms in on a closeup of a single tear rolling down his cheek. The voiceover says "Worst draft ever" over and over again...before Dadraftnik looks into the camera and says..."What if he raped YOUR mother?"

The musics then fades to nothing while the camera image fades to black.

And then it's straight to "ESPN's High Stakes Poker Shootout" with special guests Mindy Cohn, Ted Wass, and Larry Wilcox, the other guy from CHIPS.

[kingwilly]

A year from now I fully expect to watch an ESPN special that closes with a shot of Dadraftnik walking slowly down a loney beach, staring off into the distance, with the pain of a wasted draft pick etched accross his sad face. The piano musics plays over the sound of the crashing surf as the camera zooms in on a closeup of a single tear rolling down his cheek. The voiceover says "Worst draft ever" over and over again...before Dadraftnik looks into the camera and says..."What if he raped YOUR mother?"

The musics then fades to nothing while the camera image fades to black.

And then it's straight to "ESPN's High Stakes Poker Shootout" with special guests Mindy Cohn, Ted Wass, and Larry Wilcox, the other guy from CHIPS.

now that is damn funny....

everything is going to be all right because Marvin knows.

[Stripes]

Sure, it's cheesy, but it's true.

[Kazkal]

Frostee was a risky pick, but he does address a need. One that a lot of people wanted addressed in the 1st round, so they took the best DE available, who happened to drop because of the character issues.

No doubt the Bengals addressed the DE need in their estimation. But I'd say the real risk is still talent. To say Frostee dropped to the 3rd round because of character issues seems to me the most preposterous allegation I've read yet.

well not really when he looks be justin smith style DE (solid vs run avg on pass rush) which we used 1st on

[Dadraftnick]

A year from now I fully expect to watch an ESPN special that closes with a shot of Dadraftnik walking slowly down a loney beach, staring off into the distance, with the pain of a wasted draft pick etched accross his sad face. The piano musics plays over the sound of the crashing surf as the camera zooms in on a closeup of a single tear rolling down his cheek. The voiceover says "Worst draft ever" over and over again...before Dadraftnik looks into the camera and says..."What if he raped YOUR mother?"

The musics then fades to nothing while the camera image fades to black.

And then it's straight to "ESPN's High Stakes Poker Shootout" with special guests Mindy Cohn, Ted Wass, and Larry Wilcox, the other guy from CHIPS.

First of all I have to say that is funny.

I am not the one that has been saying worst draft ever.

Was Rucker one of the worst picks ?

Well,he wasn't a 1st round pick like Klinger and Akili Smith(I hated both picks at the timethey were made) so,he has a way to go.

But I think that he is a wasted pick and a guy that if they go ahead and wast a roster spot on him the team will be sorry.

The worst part is the good guys that were ranked ahead of him that we could have.

He could be a major distraction and embarrasment to the team just when they are starting to turn the corrner.

I was the only one saying last year that we should have taken a DE or a S with the Chris Henry pick and I told you what a problem he would be,besides he would have been there for 2 more rounds.

K-Wash could have done what Henry did last year and we ended up in big need of a S and DE last year while K-Wash was not activated for most of the games.

Meantime, Henry has been on his crime spree and we will be lucky if he is able to play any this year becase football interfers with his vacation plans in the grey bar motel.

[ArmyBengal]

I get what you are saying, but will agree to disagree about Washington being able to do what Henry did in his rookie season. Henry was a stud as a rookie and it usually takes more than a season or two to be able to have that kind of an impact as a WR. Washington hasn't done sh*t except dance around like a fag. I will say however, I hope Washington can figure it all out and do something this year, but if they give Tab an opportunity, K-Wash may again be sitting...

WHODEY !!!

[H.B. Bengal]

Man..

The season really needs to start before all of our 2006 draft picks spontaniously combust like a "Spinal tap" drummer.

Sheesh. I have always considered myself a "fed-up" but I have never seen so many "chicken littles'

Sorry about your Bruins bIGwILLY.

Your Trojan hate is shining through in all its baby blue glory.

WDE... yeah.

Whatever.

As I recall people were not so charged up about last years draft either. Funny how things can work out.

This draft "may" not work out... but I think it will end up being just fine.

I also bet that barring injury that Frostee builds a huge fanbase quickly.

[HairOnFire]

I also bet that barring injury that Frostee builds a huge fanbase quickly.

Set 'em straight HB. Most of these guys think that Frostee was lucky to be drafted at all. Those of us who actually watched him play know better.

Woman hating aside, the man is a bit of a stud.

[kingwilly]

Sorry about your Bruins bIGwILLY.

Your Trojan hate is shining through in all its baby blue glory.

WDE... yeah.

As I recall people were not so charged up about last years draft either. Funny how things can work out.

I also bet that barring injury that Frostee builds a huge fanbase quickly.

I'm in socal, so I saw Frostee since he came to LA. the man was a good PAC-10 DE on a defense that was stretched thin many, many times over the past couple of years....to me, he projects as a very average Pro.

Truthfully though, no trojan hating here or baby blue bruin fetish, I'm an Ohio U. alum...go bobcats....plus, don't generalize my comments, it makes a guy look simple.

Last years draft was a virutal goldmine compared to this boondoggle. I'm willing to give the whole WDE thing a rest if those talking about Frostee's first round talent and double digit sacks also takes a break.

[ArmyBengal]

I've always been about what happens on the field. You can speculate all day and that is a little bit of the fun, but judgement is best left held until you see what kind of impact they have on the field... Oh well, there's always hoping !!!

WHODEY !!!

[Bobcat Bengal]

Sorry about your Bruins bIGwILLY.

Your Trojan hate is shining through in all its baby blue glory.

WDE... yeah.

As I recall people were not so charged up about last years draft either. Funny how things can work out.

I also bet that barring injury that Frostee builds a huge fanbase quickly.

I'm in socal, so I saw Frostee since he came to LA. the man was a good PAC-10 DE on a defense that was stretched thin many, many times over the past couple of years....to me, he projects as a very average Pro.

Truthfully though, no trojan hating here or baby blue bruin fetish, I'm an Ohio U. alum...go bobcats....plus, don't generalize my comments, it makes a guy look simple.

two things:

Firstly (yeah, I said firstly) : Go bobcats!

Secondly: wtf is a boondoggle?

Last years draft was a virutal goldmine compared to this boondoggle. I'm willing to give the whole WDE thing a rest if those talking about Frostee's first round talent and double digit sacks also takes a break.

[BengalByTheBay]

I'm willing to give the whole WDE thing a rest if those talking about Frostee's first round talent and double digit sacks also takes a break.

DEAL!!!

[derekshank]

I haven't seen a whole lot of people saying that Frostee was a first round talent. If you are referring to my comments, I merely said his stats were similar to Tamba Hali's (which they are) and that multiple sites said he would have been drafted earlier had it not been for his character issues (which they did). I've never said he would have been drafted in the first round. I've never even seen the guy play.

The only point I made was that the pick wasn't seen as a reach in a lot of people's minds. The character issues are what allowed him to fall to us, so we took a chance.

So in reference to the deal you are offering... If you're willing to give the WDE a rest, I will not longer feel a need to show you why most of the world thinks Rucker is a good player.

[schweinhart]

Yaeh WDE ought to be laid to rest...unless of course you mean "Worthless Defensive End".

[HairOnFire]

Yaeh WDE ought to be laid to rest...unless of course you mean "Worthless Defensive End".

Nice.

Then again it just continues the trend of misrepresenting the type of prospect Rucker is. He's not a world beater, as any DE drafted in the late 3rd round is likely to have as many warts as beauty marks. But he's not worthless either. He's a solid but unspectacular prospect, and if PFT wasn't busy pounding the character issue up our collective butts I'd bet more of you would be quick to point that out.

All things considered, it's pretty funny how many Bengal fans are willing to throw Rucker under the bus before ever seeing him play a single down of football.

[BengalByTheBay]

All things considered, it's pretty funny how many Bengal fans are willing to throw Rucker under the bus before ever seeing him play a single down of football.

Football??.....football???? What in the world does that have to do with anything.

[kingwilly]

exactly.

[schweinhart]

Yaeh WDE ought to be laid to rest...unless of course you mean "Worthless Defensive End".

Nice.

Then again it just continues the trend of misrepresenting the type of prospect Rucker is. He's not a world beater, as any DE drafted in the late 3rd round is likely to have as many warts as beauty marks. But he's not worthless either. He's a solid but unspectacular prospect, and if PFT wasn't busy pounding the character issue up our collective butts I'd bet more of you would be quick to point that out.

All things considered, it's pretty funny how many Bengal fans are willing to throw Rucker under the bus before ever seeing him play a single down of football.

I'll buy the unspectacular prospect part but not solid because from what I've seen Rucker does nothing well enough to surface on the field for any team. However, "worthless" remains to be seen and even the prospect analysis on the Bengalszone home page from NFL.com sings some praise for Rucker despite grading him as a 7th round/priority free agent:

Rucker is a good athlete who has consistently shown a knack for making plays through effort, determination and hustle. He plays faster than his 40-time and that helps him to chase down running backs in backside pursuit; he does a very good job of making sure the play is going away and that there is no fake or reverse before flattening out and coming down the line of scrimmage. He also consistently makes a number of tackles down the field through effort and hustle. He has the quick feet and hands to defeat tight ends/running backs who try to pass block him, but can't consistently beat offensive tackles. He lacks the burst off the ball to threaten the corner and once the offensive tackle gets ahold of him, he can't get free and is basically eliminated from the play. He has experience lining up in a two-point stance wide off his normal alignment and has rushed the passer and dropped into zone coverage from this alignment (He looked pretty good dropping into coverage for a 267-pound defender). He would be an excellent free-agent signing because he can be a very good backup defensive end in the NFL. He is best suited to being a backup because he will struggle to consistently pressure the quarterback in the NFL and will struggle to hold ground vs. offensive line run blocks on runs at him due to his lack of bulk/strength.

Of course, Rucker would seem to have his best shot with a team like the Bengals at DE. It sounds like he really might fit in somewhere with the Marvin Lewis Chinese Fire Drill on the D-line that apparently now features Justin Smith back against left tackles, Bryan Robinson moved from DT to LDE and last year's starting RDE and pass rushing DT Jumpy Jr. now slimmed down for resuming a role as situational pass rusher.

But my guess is that Frostee the Rucker remains "Outside the Lines" as in on the sidelines keeping the seat warm that Mathias Askew has been for the past 2 years as Mr. Inactive.

[ArmyBengal]

If Geathers regains his form, Rucker will find it harder to get time, but I still think he will get his fair share. Here's to hoping he gets through this and becomes very solid !!!

WHODEY !!!