Dan Pompei blasts the Bengals

[membengal]

ML's mix of questionable character and high character guys got the Bengals to the playoffs for the first time in 14 years last year.

Choir boys need not apply...unless they hit like vicious sumbitches. Football talent, in the end, will demand an extra chance or two. If the talent effs up, then you move on. But not to take a chance on talent because of questions? Not smart. I would prefer the occasional chance (in the 3rd and 5th round this year...no big deal) to taking safe guys character wise who really can't play.

Just something for the talking heads to natter about in the slow time.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'm sorta torn on this one.

Marvin once said that you don't win in the NFL with church mice, and I agree with him...to a point.

That (implicitly) assumes that you are either a church mouse or a criminal. Not the case. You can be pleasant, softwpoken, and law abiding off the field...and hit like a truck on it, playing nasty, etc. Example: Troy Polamalu.

I have to say, I was definitely disappointed when we took two more (likely) violent criminals in the draft.

[HairOnFire]

... I'm not even sure what constitutes a "character" problem. Is it getting arrested? I don't think so because some college player getting popped for a DUI would probably never get onto a "character" problem list for the draft. Also, many "character" problems didn't get arrested prior to being chosen, right. Did Henry ever get arrested? I though his main problem was due to his lack of respect for authority and getting stupid on-field penalties to hurt his team. So, exactly what is a "character" problem?

Well, Pompei makes it clear that his criticism is focused in past criminal behavior, but as you point out most predraft criticism of Henry was centered on his lack of discipline and on-field outbursts....so now that Henry has melted down after being handed a few bags of NFL coin Pompei gets to do a little second guessing that might be unfair. Or maybe he was right when he claimed that had the Bengals dug deeper they might have found out that Henry was capable of more serious misbehavior. I'm not really in any position to judge that, and he probably isn't either.

If Pompei could show where Bengal players have been more likely to commit serious crimes than those drafted by other teams then I might be inclined to take his rant more seriously, but he hasn't done that, nor do I think he would be able to if he tried.

If anything surprised me about the article it was reading that Marvin Lewis had taken a player like Claude Wroten off the Bengals draft board completely as I had assumed that there would have been a point where Wroten would have been considered if he fell far enough.

[BengalByTheBay]

I'm sorta torn on this one.

Marvin once said that you don't win in the NFL with church mice, and I agree with him...to a point.

That (implicitly) assumes that you are either a church mouse or a criminal. Not the case. You can be pleasant, softwpoken, and law abiding off the field...and hit like a truck on it, playing nasty, etc. Example: Troy Polamalu.

I have to say, I was definitely disappointed when we took two more (likely) violent criminals in the draft.

You may be guilty of some assumptions as well....the charges were sexual assault, right? The one against Nicholson (??) was dropped. So, there could be something more there than we know. I'm not making excuses for anybody, and I think you're an absolute punk to hit a chick, but to call a guy who gets into a slapfight with his girlfriend a "violent criminal" would be wrong wouldn't it. And if that guy popped his wife in the mouth and she just decided not to press charges, he'd still be a punkass criminal even though he never got arrested wouldn't he. Again, don't get me wrong, I don't know what happened in any of these instances. I'm just saying that if you interviewed a player and heard what you thought (or could verify) was a reasonable explanation for the problems they had -- maybe it's not that hard to take a chance on them if you see them available at a spot you like. None of this is cut-&-dried, I think that's part of the problem.

[HairOnFire]

I would prefer the occasional chance (in the 3rd and 5th round this year...no big deal) to taking safe guys character wise who really can't play.

Yup, and there's the rub. I mentioned my concerns about AJ Nicholson immediately after the draft, but in the same breath I pointed out that the Bengals might have drafted themselves a player who could someday be a starting LB. That's pretty rare for a 5th round pick, and at the point he was selected the risk/reward ratio is probably in the teams favor. Assuming for a moment the team has done enough homework to come to the correct conclusion that they haven't drafted a ticking time bomb it's a defendable position to take...if for no other reason than the fact that almost every other team in the NFL makes the same type of choices.

[BengalByTheBay]

I would prefer the occasional chance (in the 3rd and 5th round this year...no big deal) to taking safe guys character wise who really can't play.

Yup, and there's the rub. I mentioned my concerns about AJ Nicholson immediately after the draft, but in the same breath I pointed out that the Bengals might have drafted themselves a player who could someday be a starting LB. That's pretty rare for a 5th round pick, and at the point he was selected the risk/reward ratio is probably in the teams favor. Assuming for a moment the team has done enough homework to come to the correct conclusion that they haven't drafted a ticking time bomb it's a defendable position to take...if for no other reason than the fact that almost every other team in the NFL makes the same type of choices.

That's a good point -- how many 5th rounders end up even making a team on average anyway? If you can get somebody there who might contribute as a starter eventually, then maybe it's worth the risk that he goes all Chris Henry on you and ends up maybe being cut. If your choice is that or guys that have a much higher risk of not making the team because they're not going to be good enough players -- it would seem to be a fairly clear choice. The way that boomerangs on you potentially is if you bring the guy along and get him into the starting job -- and then he decides to f-up his life and the team. What a freaking crapshoot...

[kingwilly]

I think this is a valid argument by Pompus-ei..I think this draft sucked donkey-schlong and the character issue is part of it. Mr. District Attorney (AJ) has a legit legal problem...Rucker is an immature stooge (apart from his barely average college career)..I have not read any concerns about McNeal so maybe he gets a pass.

ML is faced with a tough job but has exhibited serious short-term memeory loss, as in Poached Salmon style, with tis draft....who wants to bet on the chances of mr district atty running afoul of the law this season????

[HairOnFire]

....who wants to bet on the chances of mr district atty running afoul of the law this season????

No, I don't know that much about Nicholson. But Frostee Rucker played his college ball in my proverbial backyard and I'll gladly bet you an orange Bengal jersey that my boy stays out of serious trouble all season long. Of course you can pick the name of any Bengal player you'd prefer on the back of your jersey if I lose.

Deal?

[kingwilly]

...all of this is based on Frostee making the team....

First...let's define trouble...I do not consider a team fine or missing a start for being late to a meeting as a problem...life happens..trouble to me is when the law is involved, or there is a League violation, or on-field issues, like an overt personal foul or getting kicked out of a game...

based on that, I do not see Frostee being the issue...I see AJ being the issue. I also see the issue with ML trying to take on the "I can fix him" attitude...some people do grow up, most don't...

HOF, I already owe TNBT and Joisey jersey's...I'd prefer not add a third!

BTW, to those I woe the new threads, anytime before the season starts, let me know who you want and I will get it done.

[HairOnFire]

HOF, I already owe TNBT and Joisey jersey's...I'd prefer not add a third!

C'mon, I'm sure you can get a volume discount.

[Dadraftnick]

The guy is right Character is a big concern.

When you have a guy like Pickens for instance, what he does is undermine the coaches authority,by continually not listening to the coach,thinking the rules dont aply to him and pretty soon the rookies follow suit.

The next thing you know the team is in dissarray.

When you have a criminal like the Ray Lewis or Jamal Lewis you embarass your team ..ect.

Look at the probllems that Chris Henry has caused the Bengals, we will not have his services for at least 6 games and who knows what kind of stupid or criminal act will preform in the mean time untill those 6 weeks are up.

I was one to the few people against the drafting of Henry because I had seen what an idiot he was at WVA and I thought we should have taken a DE or S at the spot and we sure could have used an extra S last year.

I dont think we would have taken 3 more WR's and signed one in free agency if we knew we could count on him.

So, he has cost us draft choices that we could have used on other players and he also cost us on some stupid penalties like taking his helmet off ect.

Look at what Ricky Williams has cost the teams stupid enough to put faith in him.

The Bears gave up a whole draft for him,he cost Ditka his job, and he cost the Dolphins a #1 draft choice and where is Williams looking for a job in the CFL.

I guess the ultimate character guy was Panters WR Ray Carruth (although Ray Lewis probably should be in the same spot too) is doing life for killing his pregnant stripper girlfriend.

What are the Bengals going to do if Rucker or Nicholson rapes someone ???

With their history of rape accusations against them does that leave the organization open to liabilty??

What if one of them were to rape a someone on company property? Or what if someone made up the charges in order to get rich ??

Its something to think of when you draft some like these guys are they worth the risk.

[2ndyearBengal]

I can't tell if I'm reading a soft porn site here anymore, or a Bengals forum...but then when I see some ugly cheerleader with a nasty camel toe (or is that a penis?) I'm quickly reminded that I'm at Bengalszone!

I've often wondered the same thing.

[Section 310]

Regarding Chris Henry....

I have a client who is a HUGE WVU fan. He warned me last year after the draft that Henry was a stone cold thug in every sense of the word. He said there were numerous stories about run-in's that Henry had with coaches, teammates and students. The guy had nothing positive to say about him.

If Henry grows up and matures he could be a top notch receiver and eventual replacement for CJ. If not, he could end up bankrupt and in jail.

As you can see from the posts, drafting the "character" guys is a tough issue. Some (Cris Carter, Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, maybe Koren Robinson) work out, while others don't. You just have to hope Marvin can keep these guys on the path towards becoming productive members of the team and society.

[hellbound_04]

WELL WHATS WORSE????

A GUY WHO DOES SOMETHING WRONG OFF THE FIELD OR A COCKSMITH WHO INTENTIONALLY TRIES TO BREAK A MANS KNEES ON THE FIELD??????????????

[BengalByTheBay]

What are the Bengals going to do if Rucker or Nicholson rapes someone ???

With their history of rape accusations against them does that leave the organization open to liabilty??

What if one of them were to rape a someone on company property? Or what if someone made up the charges in order to get rich ??

Its something to think of when you draft some like these guys are they worth the risk.

I think they would do just about what any other employer would do -- let the legal system deal with it. In answer to your other questions....no -- under almost every circumstance there is no liability for a criminal act of another. These guys are not hired to be preschool teachers, there is no basis for an enhanced duty to screen your employees when their job is to go out and tackle somebody on a football field. So, while there is risk in drafting somebody you feel may be a character risk, your concerns are not among them.

[Smackdown625]

These guys are grown men. Marvin shouldn't have to watch their every move & make sure nothing happens off the field. They should be able to handle themselves and make smart choices, if they can't do that then they shouldn't be on a team. As a fan of Chris Henry and all of the talent that he has, I think he's been given too many chances. It's making the Bengals organization look bad from a NFL fan standpoint. It's not to the same degree as the Ravens or Raiders, but it's definitely in Top 10. I think if Frostee or AJ make one wrong move, then they should be gone. No second chances anymore....

[jditty47]

i disagree to a point. look, rookie contracts are cheap compared to any contract after that point. its very easy to risk lower money on a huge risk that might pay off. look at weathersby, he was a huge risk...didnt pay off. odell...payed off. henry...prolly not. list goes on and on. character issues can be overcome by most...just a select few wont be able to handle it and they will be gone within 3-4 years or less depending on the circumstances. only way to find stars. marvin knows what hes doing for a reason. how many 1st round flops are there? u have to turn coal into diamonds somehow...

[BengalByTheBay]

These guys are grown men. Marvin shouldn't have to watch their every move & make sure nothing happens off the field. They should be able to handle themselves and make smart choices, if they can't do that then they shouldn't be on a team. As a fan of Chris Henry and all of the talent that he has, I think he's been given too many chances. It's making the Bengals organization look bad from a NFL fan standpoint. It's not to the same degree as the Ravens or Raiders, but it's definitely in Top 10. I think if Frostee or AJ make one wrong move, then they should be gone. No second chances anymore....

So, the Bengals are somehow worse than any other organization that has players that get arrested? Ricky Manning's been arrested twice -- are the Panthers in your "top 10"? Come on, is there any team that doesn't have its share of arrests in the off-season. Ricky Williams & Steve Smith, by all accounts, have both failed numerous NFL drug screens, are the Dolphins & Jags bad character organizations too? I don't follow your steelers as closely as you apparently follow my Bengals, but I would be willing to bet that in the past 12 months somebody on your team has gotten tagged with a DUI, drug arrest, or domestic violence complaint. So, I guess what I would say is -- how much difference is there between the top and bottom 10 anyway?

[Snarks]

Dan Pompei's article is just off-season fluff.

And one more thing Cincinnati.....

..........BOOGER!!!!!

[BengalByTheBay]

..........BOOGER!!!!!

McFarland?

[Snarks]

..........BOOGER!!!!!

McFarland?

Dr. Johnny Fever reference for my first post in the more "rock n roll" message board.

[cover2]

Hey, at least we don't have anyone who did jail time for selling drugs or who was accused of murder.....

With what Henry has done in the last few months it is worse than selling drugs (pulling a gun on a crowd) and pulling the trigger would not be a real leap with someone whose IQ approximates his shoe size. How would you like to look down the barrel of a 9MM at 3AM in the morning with his finger on the trigger?

No thanks!