Round 2: OT Andrew Whitworth

[Kazkal]

Actually, the full quote is

"The Bengals feel Whitworth can eventually play right tackle, or move inside to guard, as well as play left tackle."

i diden't mean cut off last part but aye all 3 is nice so who ever we can't bring back in he'll be able too replace....And apartently ko and pope would have both been reachs and if they couldent trade down would make sense

[andybren]

Aside from tight end, we don't have any gaping holes. So you might as well pick a "project".

Marvin must like a TE he can get later. He's made some great later round picks in the past 3 years, so I see no reason to think he won't do it again. Need I mention Landon, Tab, Jeremi...

At least we didn't pick a QB in the secon round like the Steelers.

[Kazkal]

Hullo jai lewis!

[TJJackson]

Aside from tight end, we don't have any gaping holes. So you might as well pick a "project".

Ah, you need to review our 2005 defensive statistics, or better yet, review some game film. You'll see some "gaping holes", and I'm not talking about the ones our OL opened for Rudi

Marvin must like a TE he can get later. He's made some great later round picks in the past 3 years, so I see no reason to think he won't do it again. Need I mention Landon, Tab, Jeremi...

Err, do you know anything about the Bengals? Or the draft?

Jeremi and Landon were both 3rd rounders. Those are considered early round picks.

At least we didn't pick a QB in the secon round like the Steelers.

Let's assume for a moment that you know what you're talking about, and that the Steelers actually made a pick in the second round in 2006....which they didn't.

What a relief it is to me that instead of picking a fellow at a position where he has no chance of starting, we picked a different fellow at a different position who also has no chance of starting.

What a great point.

This comforts me greatly.

Thanks.

[GapControl]

I don't like the pick at all. What does this say about the development of Andrews ?? Our defense needs a pass rush and a younger safety and Pope was still on the board. BULLSH*T pick in my mind. I F*CKING HATE IT !!!

WHODEY !!!

We don`t need him. Especially in the 2nd round. I say it is a bust pick. A wasted, useless f*cking pick. The guy would have been there in the 3rd and we lost out on so many high quality players.

[derekshank]

I'm not excited... but it's not a wasted pick. He's going to play RT. Willie is old... and even though he still produces, he will not be worth the contract he wants 2 years from now. We have a replacement that is used to playing against strong competition. He'll be fine.

We will tag Levi if we don't get him re-signed earlier. Willie will be gone, and we will be able to use his money on the defense. Does this pick address our biggest area of need? No... but it does address one of our off-season priorities, which is getting the O-line dealt with.

Marvin is simply thinking more long-term than most of us would have preferred, so none of us are jumping up and down. It doesn't make it a useless pick though. Just a disappointing one.

[TJJackson]

He's going to play RT. Willie is old... and even though he still produces, he will not be worth the contract he wants 2 years from now. We have a replacement that is used to playing against strong competition. He'll be fine.

We will tag Levi

Albeit expensive, tagging Levi will keep him here for one year as a very, very unhappy camper, and probably no more. It would virtually ensure his departure the following year.

Who's your LT in 2008?

Andrews?

[derekshank]

He's going to play RT. Willie is old... and even though he still produces, he will not be worth the contract he wants 2 years from now. We have a replacement that is used to playing against strong competition. He'll be fine.

We will tag Levi

Albeit expensive, tagging Levi will keep him here for one year as a very, very unhappy camper, and probably no more. It would virtually ensure his departure the following year.

Who's your LT in 2008?

Andrews?

Have the Bengals ever tagged a player and let them play out their one year without getting an extention? The Rams may have done this kind of thing with Pace, and teh Seahawks did it with Alexander... but when we tagged Rudi, it was just to keep other teams hands off until the extended him.

If we tag Levi (and I still think we extend him before it gets to that) it will only be in order to extend him further. Therefore... my LT in 2008 is Levi. Thanks for asking.

[TJJackson]

I think you'll end up with a pissed off Levi who will refuse to negotiate a contact for 2008, and I am not sure whether the terms of the new CBA allow him to be tagged again the following year....or whether if it does allow it but imposes a large additional expense on the team for doing so

[Tasher]

this draft is all about depth of the roster.

don't be surprised if a number of these 8 picks dont make the club...

...and i mean dont make the practice squad either!

Marvin is going on straight up grade, everyone has different grades and things that they value, Bengals have stated previously that they did not really like Pope because he was too raw.

Ko is still on the board in the 4th as is Bing, Watkins amoung others.

Frostee is a bit more surprising, but they must know something we dont...

Drink the kool-aid!

"In Marvin We Trust!"

[derekshank]

I think you'll end up with a pissed off Levi who will refuse to negotiate a contact for 2008, and I am not sure whether the terms of the new CBA allow him to be tagged again the following year....or whether if it does allow it but imposes a large additional expense on the team for doing so

Well the one thing we agree on is that we won't tag him multiple years in a row. I guess I don't understand the direction of your argument though.

If you are so sure that we aren't going to extend Levi, and that he'll be unwilling to re-sign with us if we try to tag him, this pick makes the most sense in the world. We probably should have taken one in the first round.

My argument is that Whitworth is an able replacement for Willie, and we will re-sign Levi. You're are attempting to disagree with me by saying that we won't be able to retain Levi either? Then why are you so pissed about this pick?

[ArmyBengal]

Well, I thought after some time, this pick might grow on me...

F*CK NO IT STILL SUCKS !!!

I'm just not pleased and I knew I wouldn't be with an offensive pick, but if it was going to be offensive, we should have addressed the TE position in my mind. Another thing about this pick, is in the article at .com, Marvin say it has nothing to do with the o-line situation and namely Big Willie. If that is in fact the case (I think not) I'd be even more pissed because if it was about depth, the safety position sure as hell could use someone younger than Jackson and Tapp would have been more than OK by me at DE.

I know they grade things their own way, but I just can't bring myself to liking this pick.

WHODEY !!!

[derekshank]

Well, I thought after some time, this pick might grow on me...

F*CK NO IT STILL SUCKS !!!

I'm just not pleased and I knew I wouldn't be with an offensive pick, but if it was going to be offensive, we should have addressed the TE position in my mind. Another thing about this pick, is in the article at .com, Marvin say it has nothing to do with the o-line situation and namely Big Willie. If that is in fact the case (I think not) I'd be even more pissed because if it was about depth, the safety position sure as hell could use someone younger than Jackson and Tapp would have been more than OK by me at DE.

I know they grade things their own way, but I just can't bring myself to liking this pick.

WHODEY !!!

Well, at least you gave it a chance. I mean, you gave it a whole 5 hours to grow on you.

[Tasher]

holy frick, the dude is 6'7'' 330. What the hell do you want?

did you read the blurb that Anderson gave, or was it Alexander...?

well, anyway, go read it. sounds like the Bengals have started to do the extra leg work that they never used to do and are finding gems where others arent even looking.

considering that we have one more year with our current line, seems like pretty good insurance for the following years and good depth for next year.

if he gets cut after training camp, i will be a little mad then, though...

[TJJackson]

If you are so sure that we aren't going to extend Levi, and that he'll be unwilling to re-sign with us if we try to tag him, this pick makes the most sense in the world.

Really? because you're telling me the guy will play RT. If you want him to replace Levi he has to play LT. Not right. Left. Understood?

We probably should have taken one in the first round

That'd be even more phenomenally stupid than the pick at 55.

If you're picking a guy to groom to replace another player in x years, you take a guy in later rounds, because in the early rounds, you need the gys who can come in and contribute to wins NOW.

My argument is that Whitworth is an able replacement for Willie, and we will re-sign Levi. You're are attempting to disagree with me by saying that we won't be able to retain Levi either? Then why are you so pissed about this pick?

You're telling me that you'll keep Levi by tagging him. If you do so, I am saying you'll keep him for no more than that one year. Your way of "keeping" this player is tantamount to a release with one year's notice. So again I ask: who's your replacement for Levi when he leaves after a year playing for the franchise tender?

The other frustrating thing about what you are saying is that you completely fail to acknowlege Kooistra and Kieft. Both are targeted as RT. Not LT. Do you even recall how the oline play did not fall off much if at all when Kooistra went in for Willy? Whitworth is targeted as LEVI's replacement, insurance if Levi's price is too high. Levi, not Willy. Andrews was targeted as Levi's replacement, and all I can guess is that he hasn't shown enough development, and they are close to giving up on him.

[Kazkal]

screw it will see what happens in the future.

[ArmyBengal]

Actually 5 hours is alot for me, as I usually freak out then calm down, but it's just not happening here. I'm not arguing the guy isn't good and God knows he's as big as a freakin house, but what the hell are we going to do with him ?? He has been scouted as not being a good pass blocker. NOT A GOOD PASS BLOCKER ?? Are you f*cking kidding me ?? I just don't get why you draft a project backup in the 2nd when there are not only defensive needs, but players available to fill said needs.

Once again, not blindly knocking the guy, but him being BIG doesn't make him what we NEED and neither does our current o-line situation. Oh yeah, this has the smell of Stacey Andrews all over it !!!

WHODEY !!!

[Kazkal]

Just asking cause I saw it on another thread but diden't the guy give up 0 sacks last year

[derekshank]

If you are so sure that we aren't going to extend Levi, and that he'll be unwilling to re-sign with us if we try to tag him, this pick makes the most sense in the world.

Really? because you're telling me the guy will play RT. If you want him to replace Levi he has to play LT. Not right. Left. Understood?

We probably should have taken one in the first round

That'd be even more phenomenally stupid than the pick at 55.

If you're picking a guy to groom to replace another player in x years, you take a guy in later rounds, because in the early rounds, you need the gys who can come in and contribute to wins NOW.

My argument is that Whitworth is an able replacement for Willie, and we will re-sign Levi. You're are attempting to disagree with me by saying that we won't be able to retain Levi either? Then why are you so pissed about this pick?

You're telling me that you'll keep Levi by tagging him. If you do so, I am saying you'll keep him for no more than that one year. Your way of "keeping" this player is tantamount to a release with one year's notice. So again I ask: who's your replacement for Levi when he leaves after a year playing for the franchise tender?

The other frustrating thing about what you are saying is that you completely fail to acknowlege Kooistra and Kieft. Both are targeted as RT. Not LT. Do you even recall how the oline play did not fall off much if at all when Kooistra went in for Willy? Whitworth is targeted as LEVI's replacement, insurance if Levi's price is too high. Levi, not Willy. Andrews was targeted as Levi's replacement, and all I can guess is that he hasn't shown enough development, and they are close to giving up on him.

I can see your argument... I just don't see it playing out that way. (By the way... my argument has consitently been that we would only tag Levi if we needed more time to extend him not to have him play out the season with a 1-year franchise tag contract. I've never insinuated that we do this to keep him for only one year. This is how we extended Rudi, so don't act like this has never been done).

Most write-ups have Whitworth projected as a RT in the NFL. I still see a long term extension in the works with Levi. When it comes to this line, we are going to have to make a cut. Was Andrews picked to replace Levi? I'm sure that potential was a possibility in their mind... because it would have been so much cheaper, but it was a project pick, so let's not act as if they've made it a priority to replace Levi in the past.

Kooistra is a good backup... but I'm not comfortable with him as our starting RT. Willie will demand far too much money for his long-term value, which makes him the odd man out. Levi does get hurt sometimes, so Whitworth will probably be the first backup in those situations... but long-term I see him as Willie's replacement. They just gave Palmer a massive amount of cash, so I doubt they are going to try to protect his blindside with a lesser option, simply because Levi will cost more.

We clearly aren't going to agree on this... but long-term the pick makes sense in either of our scenarios. They drafted a lineman in the 2nd round who will be more than suitable to provide good O-line play without breaking the bank, and freeing up cash to continue improving the defense.

For people who hate this pick because the guy isn't going to start this year... this is how you plan ahead. Knowing that our whole O-line isn't going to stay in tact, we are insuring that we have a good O-line in the future without ever being forced to start rookies. I wuold hate to have to draft a OT in the 1st round next year because we found out too late that we couldn't make Levi and Willie work under the cap. If we don't make this pick we either use an earlier pick next year (which still means starting a rookie), or else we give in to both Willie and Levi, and the disparity between the money in offense and defense continues.

[TJJackson]

No, we aren't going to agree on the effect of applying the tag to Levi

The reason they took Whitworth was insurance for Levi leaving. That means he'll train at LT. They already have Kooistra and Kieft training to replace Willy. I don't think you'll try to make the claim that either is being groomed as a replacement for Levi. Does it make sense then to draft a THIRD replacement for Willy? No, it doesn't. Depth needs to be evenly distributed.

Regardless of your "comfort" with Kooistra, he performed admirably in those instances when Willy was out.

[Kazkal]

Kieft was injured his first season so kinda hard to say hes Willies future backup,Kooistra I could have swore was primary guard backup but did go in for willie but doesn't mean team sees him as our future RT + even if whitworth was taken incase we lose levi? but what happens when we resign levi longterm then whitworth will go to the Right side

[derekshank]

Kieft was injured his first season so kinda hard to say hes Willies future backup,Kooistra I could have swore was primary guard backup but did go in for willie but doesn't mean team sees him as our future RT + even if whitworth was taken incase we lose levi? but what happens when we resign levi longterm then whitworth will go to the Right side

Exactly. Kooistra is not being groomed to replace Willie. Let's say that Keift is. We lose Willie, and Kieft starts... we lost Levi, and Whitworth starts. That leaves us with some pretty shallow depth on the O-Line. I just don't see them letting both Willie and Levi getting away... because that means more picks next year that TJ will hate.

It seems pretty clear that they plan on letting Willie leave rather than Levi... and my guess is they are attempting to get Steinbach signed before they begin negotiating with Levi.

[Kazkal]

I hope they get levi done first just cause he seems impantient think steinbach is more understanding and knows he'll get his deal too...Anyone think levi wants go play for cards next year their gonna have ton of cap space and he went too college there

[HoTbOy]

I knew OT was going to be addressed but I thought it would have been in rds. 4-7, I thought defense was going to be the theme of the day...if this guy is as good as I have read he should make an excellent RT, I can't see them letting LJones go...I also thought that SAndrews would be taking WAnderson's spot should he not be resigned...Why do we keep drafting players like an MAskew or SAndrews if they are there just to be roster fodder...

[derekshank]

The site says we have offers to both Steinbach and Levi... but none for Willie. Tell me it's a coincidence.