Trey Wingo on LBs in the draft

[lando griffin]

This isn't anything big, but Wingo was mentioning how a good 1st round LB selection can really bolster your defense. He brought up good picks from the past like LT, Ray Lewis, and others. Then he brought up how in the same year the Bengals scored big with Takeo Spikes and struck out big with Brian Simmons.

Simmons hasn't been an all-pro, but he's still been pretty solid on a consistent basis over the years. I wouldn't call him anything close to a bust so it was kind of weird. ESPN getting worse and worse.

[Whur CHad At?]

Most people tend to agree that Simmons is "overrated" and when you think about it he is. He has been decent, but makes mistakes, and misses tackles. He hardly gets 90 tackles a year, and has never been to a Pro Bowl. Can you see what all the fuss is about Arrington is about now?

[bengalboomer7]

Can't argue he hasn't lived up to a first round pick. But it's not like he's had a ton of help either. Now, with some players around him I think he'll have a Cato June type year. He's at his best in coverage and with two heat seeking missiles beside him(Pollak, Odell) he can play back and pick em off across the middle. Of course, I'm an optimistic person

[HairOnFire]

Then he brought up how in the same year the Bengals scored big with Takeo Spikes and struck out big with Brian Simmons.

Accuracy counts, Lando. I just watched the program and Wingo doesn't come close to saying the Bengals struck out with Simmons. He starts out by mentioning how big the Bengals hit with Takeo and then added..."they didn't do quite as well with Brian Simmons."

I can't argue with him.

[lando griffin]

Then he brought up how in the same year the Bengals scored big with Takeo Spikes and struck out big with Brian Simmons.

Accuracy counts, Lando. I just watched the program and Wingo doesn't come close to saying the Bengals struck out with Simmons. He starts out by mentioning how big the Bengals hit with Takeo and then added..."they didn't do quite as well with Brian Simmons."

I can't argue with him.

Yea, I guess so. It just seems like there's so many 1st rounders who don't do s**t, that it's kinda hard to be too critical with Simmons--he has produced.

[GregCook]

Hmm, the Bengals have drafted 4 linebackers since Lewis took over, none has supplanted BSims. So he ain't bad. Linebacker is a position Lewis loves to stock so no surprise here if he drafts one on the first day. Given the holes in the 2006 Bengals defense, replacing BSims is a problem for next year, he can wait.

[andybren]

Yea, I guess so. It just seems like there's so many 1st rounders who don't do s**t, that it's kinda hard to be too critical with Simmons--he has produced.

So essentially you echo Trey Wingo's argument. That regardless of the high expectations placed on him, a 1st round pick is just as likely to become a superstar, a wash-out, or somewhere in-between.

The point is, that with 1st round picks, anybody in that "in-between" category is going to be a disappointment.

[HoTbOy]

I think he is overrated, Spikes was a monster, and I really miss him, BSims has just never really did anything for me...he always misses on screens to his side...i wouldn't say he was a bust either...but i have just been expecting more every year from him and it never happens, it's the same every year...i am all for giving LJohnson his spot...

[Stripes]

I won't call Simmons overrated, simply because I don't think anyone really views him as an upper tier player. That said, he isn't underrated either. I really think he was earlier in his career when he and Takeo would be the only difference makers on the field. Nowadays he is older and has certainly lost a step. He should be replaced soon, though in the same light I think Tory James is a higher priority to replace for the same reason.

[CBin2k7]

I believe Landon Johnson can be a more than adequate replacement for B-Simmons. LJ has played all 3 LB spots since he has been here. Allowing him to settle into his more natural WSLB position should only accelerate his career. Unless the coaching staff believes LJ is more valuable in a backup role, for all 3 spots, you will see him get more and more playing time at WS.

I still think they should draft a LB for depth, because if Odell goes down, then LJ has to step into the middle and who knows what to expect from Caleb Miller, Rashad Jeanty and Hannibal Navies as the primary backups.

[Kazkal]

This isn't anything big, but Wingo was mentioning how a good 1st round LB selection can really bolster your defense. He brought up good picks from the past like LT, Ray Lewis, and others. Then he brought up how in the same year the Bengals scored big with Takeo Spikes and struck out big with Brian Simmons.

Simmons hasn't been an all-pro, but he's still been pretty solid on a consistent basis over the years. I wouldn't call him anything close to a bust so it was kind of weird. ESPN getting worse and worse.

I don't think hes overrated I think hes above average and a serviceable LB who is better then alot of teams LB's I do think landon will replace him sometime this year or next or next year if we take a rookie replacement

Can't argue he hasn't lived up to a first round pick. But it's not like he's had a ton of help either. Now, with some players around him I think he'll have a Cato June type year. He's at his best in coverage and with two heat seeking missiles beside him(Pollak, Odell) he can play back and pick em off across the middle. Of course, I'm an optimistic person

and when he did get help he was in his 9th year =/

Hmm, the Bengals have drafted 4 linebackers since Lewis took over, none has supplanted BSims. So he ain't bad. Linebacker is a position Lewis loves to stock so no surprise here if he drafts one on the first day. Given the holes in the 2006 Bengals defense, replacing BSims is a problem for next year, he can wait.

Yup and its not homerness because Hardy was a person loved by alot of fans but had lot a stepped and it showed bad so he got the aXe

I believe Landon Johnson can be a more than adequate replacement for B-Simmons. LJ has played all 3 LB spots since he has been here. Allowing him to settle into his more natural WSLB position should only accelerate his career. Unless the coaching staff believes LJ is more valuable in a backup role, for all 3 spots, you will see him get more and more playing time at WS.

I still think they should draft a LB for depth, because if Odell goes down, then LJ has to step into the middle and who knows what to expect from Caleb Miller, Rashad Jeanty and Hannibal Navies as the primary backups.

don't forget wilkins

[Kazkal]

Statwise 2005 was his best year sense 2001

[lando griffin]

Yea, I guess so. It just seems like there's so many 1st rounders who don't do s**t, that it's kinda hard to be too critical with Simmons--he has produced.

So essentially you echo Trey Wingo's argument. That regardless of the high expectations placed on him, a 1st round pick is just as likely to become a superstar, a wash-out, or somewhere in-between.

The point is, that with 1st round picks, anybody in that "in-between" category is going to be a disappointment.

If my browsers weren't acting up like crazy right now, I'd check all the other draft picks from 98. I'd say from not even looking right now that Simmons became a better player than half of them. That is a conservative estimate. So....essentially, I'm not agreeing with Wingo at all, that's why I made this thread. I don't think mid-late 1st round picks need to become superstars to justify their pick status, they just need to not flop, which Simmons didn't do at all.

[turningpoint]

I just loved Merril Hoge on SC saying he thinks Vince and Lienart aren't 1st round pciks cause they aren't near the level of Carson Palmer. I was like damn!

[Kazkal]

Oh I know its like carsons the only one in recent years who deserved go number 1 overall for QB inless count eli who only went 1 cause of his bro

[andybren]

I don't think mid-late 1st round picks need to become superstars to justify their pick status, they just need to not flop, which Simmons didn't do at all.

"Not flopping" is a pretty low standard. Especially for the money that a 1st round pick gets.

Landon is a legitimate threat to make Simmons unemployed and he was only a 3rd round pick. To me, that says it all.