And the Con Man Continues...

[Kirkendall]

Rose's new book will probably be the first bibliography in the fiction section..

NEW YORK (AP) -- Pete Rose insisted Wednesday he didn't plan to draw attention away from the elections of Dennis Eckersley and Paul Molitor to baseball's Hall of Fame.

The release this week of Rose's autobiography, in which he finally admits he bet on baseball, upset the Hall of Fame, which announced Tuesday that Eckersley and Molitor were its latest inductees.

"I never intended to diminish the exciting news for these deserving players,'' Rose said in his statement.

Eckersley and Molitor accused Rose of bad timing.

"It's a little disappointing in the timing because we can all see the attention it's getting,'' Molitor said. ``I answered questions for an hour yesterday but the only one that was used on the front page of USA Today was about Pete Rose.''

Rose's publisher, Rodale Inc., originally announced last year that the book would be released in March 2004 but moved up the date to Jan. 8 -- two days after the announcement of this year's Hall election results.

Sports Illustrated, which Rodale said bought first serialization rights for the issue hitting newsstands Wednesday, put excerpts on its Web site Monday. The Associated Press wrote its own story Monday about Rose's admission based on the excerpts released by Sports Illustrated.

"My publisher worked hard to contain the news of this book until after the Hall of Fame announcements, and we were both upset when a media leak on Sunday caused the news to be announced on Monday,'' Rose said.

However, Sports Illustrated says it released the excerpts only after consultation with Rodale. Originally, the magazine planned to publish the excerpts on Wednesday but moved up the date because details of the book were starting to get out.

"Sports Illustrated and Rodale mutually agreed on Sunday to release the excerpts on Monday morning,'' said Rick McCabe, a spokesman for the magazine.

Hall chairman Jane Forbes Clark was disappointed the book was released this week.

"I think the timing was very unfortunate,'' she said Wednesday after the Hall's news conference for Eckersley and Molitor. "It's unfortunate because this should be their day.''

Only about half of the 157 Hall voters surveyed by Tribune Co. newspapers said they would vote for Rose if he became eligible -- well short of the 75 percent necessary for election. Seventy-one writers said they would vote for Rose, 75 said they wouldn't and 11 said they were undecided. There were 506 Hall voters this year.

Rose admits in the book, ``Pete Rose: My Prison without Bars,'' that he placed bets on the Cincinnati Reds during the time he managed the team in the late 1980s.

He repeated those admissions in a Dec. 12 interview with ABC News' ``Primetime Thursday,'' parts of which aired for the first time Monday on ``Good Morning America.''

"I am terribly sorry for my actions and for my bad judgment in ever wagering on baseball, and I deeply regret waiting so many years to come clean,'' Rose said in his statement. "I would like to apologize to the fans for abusing their trust, but I thank them all for their continuing faith in me.''

Rose accepted a permanent ban from baseball in August 1989 and applied to commissioner Bud Selig for reinstatement in 1997. In November 2002, he met with Selig and admitted betting on baseball.

"I hoped that the public admission, coordinated with my hopeful reinstatement back into baseball, would have taken place shortly thereafter,'' Rose said. "It was always my intent for the book to follow a public admission coordinated with baseball.''

Molitor remembered his own problems with drugs and compared his situation to that of Rose.

"My involvement and choice to experiment with drugs early in my career is something that I regret,'' Molitor said. "To be contrite you first have to acknowledge that what you did was wrong, but I'm not sure that Pete has done that.''

What Rose intended for his public confession has gone terribly awry, former teammate Mike Schmidt said.

"It doesn't look good, it's taken a turn for the worse,'' he told the AP. "It is a sad thing. ... I haven't heard anything good, but I hope the commissioner is reserving judgment. I've heard some of the worst references about Pete.''

John Dowd, the investigator who compiled the report for baseball that led to Rose's ban, would not comment on Rose's turnabout, which followed 14 years of denials by the career hits leader.

"I really don't want to get into a Dowd vs. Rose,'' Dowd said Wednesday.

Rose's Web site (www.peterose.com) is taking orders for the book, offering autographed copies for $79.95 and personally signed copies for $99.95.

[The Brew Man]

Its all about the money for ole Charlie Hustle.....

[Boobie Clark]

Hey, I don't care what Rose did. If they can let crack heads like Strawberry and Steve Howe back in the league, I don't what to hear about what a terrible person Rose is. Did they ever say he bet while playing or just as a manager? Fine, don't put him in as a manager. He was a better player anyway.

The fact is that Pete's already in the HOF many times over. If they don't want him there, they should give back the unis, bats, balls, bases, cards, programs and anything else that has his name on it. Remove his name from World Series trophies, pictures and game programs. They want to punish him AND make a buck off him. If I ever get to the HOF, the first thing I'm going to do is search for the Rose items. He was a childhood hero to me and all my friends. Probably to many of you as well.

Tell me baseball hasn't been harmed by the strikes, by the tied All-Star game, by David Wells book. Go ahead, tell me that. Why do you guys want Rose's head? I just don't get it.

[kevnz]

Well, being that I can't stand the Reds, I'll chime in with my thoughts.

Rose doesn't deserve to be in the Hall. Yes he has records that deserve recognition in the hall, but when they send the ballot out it says to take into consideration the players ethics, and that's an area he is sorely lacking. He took his lifetime ban then every year he pimps merchandise near the HOF inductions? WTF? He agreed to the ban...Said he never bet on baseball, then in an effort to get into the hall he finally admits. Like this makes it all okay? Do I think baseball over reacted when the whole thing happened? Yep. If they had of handled the whole the right when baseball found out about it then none of this would be an issue. Pete Rose deserved help because gambling is a problem just like drug or alchol abuse. But he made his bed, now he's gotta lie in it. He has been a shame ever since the ban happened...Maybe to many ass kickings from Kane at those Wrestlemanias? Who knows?

Of course I won't even go into how arrogant people are about how he defiled baseball by betting on it...yeah, like players don't take steroids and smash home run records??? I don't think any hitting record should ever count past the strike.

But it doesn't really matter cause baseball is quickly becoming irrelavent. That's what really sucks.

[Boobie Clark]

Alright. I can live with your argument. Pimping his gear might violate the spirit of the ban, but not the ban itself.

Sammy Sosa isn't much of a ball player, but he get jack it. Some would argue that's enough to get him into the HOF. Maybe, though I don't agree. But let's say it is enough. Is he disqualified for being a cheat?

[kevnz]

Alright. I can live with your argument. Pimping his gear might violate the spirit of the ban, but not the ban itself.

Sammy Sosa isn't much of a ball player, but he get jack it. Some would argue that's enough to get him into the HOF. Maybe, though I don't agree. But let's say it is enough. Is he disqualified for being a cheat?

Well, I really don't think any current player deserves to get into the HOF. Unless they can prove they are steroid free for the entire career. I also think that any record that is broken should have an astrix beside it....It's a freakin joke....But as for Sosa...Don't know...Even if he never used Steroids the corked bat has tainted him...If I had a vote I don't think I could vote for him.

Cheers

A jaded former baseball fan.

[richmond_mat]

Hey, I don't care what Rose did. If they can let crack heads like Strawberry and Steve Howe back in the league, I don't what to hear about what a terrible person Rose is. Did they ever say he bet while playing or just as a manager? Fine, don't put him in as a manager. He was a better player anyway.

The fact is that Pete's already in the HOF many times over. If they don't want him there, they should give back the unis, bats, balls, bases, cards, programs and anything else that has his name on it. Remove his name from World Series trophies, pictures and game programs. They want to punish him AND make a buck off him. If I ever get to the HOF, the first thing I'm going to do is search for the Rose items. He was a childhood hero to me and all my friends. Probably to many of you as well.

Tell me baseball hasn't been harmed by the strikes, by the tied All-Star game, by David Wells book. Go ahead, tell me that. Why do you guys want Rose's head? I just don't get it.

Yeah!

Well said, especially the strikes and allstar fiasco.

I attend 2-3 reds games a year, but it ain't the same. The new park has a cheap feel to it (but nothing for sale is cheap). The rightfield overlooking the river is a nice place to have an ale.

The views of the field are better than riverfront's.

Griffey, Griffey, Griffey.......I hope you're healthy and there is some pitching this year.

Otherwise everyone will watch something else.

[Kirkendall]

If they can let crack heads like Strawberry and Steve Howe back in the league, I don't what to hear about what a terrible person Rose is.

Baseball is NOT a game structured around ethics and morals. If you have drug abuse, they are lenient because -- lets be honest -- it hurts the game way LESS than gambling. This game wasn't designed to make role models of players for kids, that's the parents job to say BOTH is wrong. You can't justify one bad thing with another, it's contradictive.

Gambling threw a 1919 World Series away. Drugs and whatever demand reconciliation, but gambling will destroy the game. If Rose were to be allowed back into the HOF and even worse, baseball, there WILL be more instances in which betting were to be the forefront of a game that has almost destroyed itself.

Well said, especially the strikes and allstar fiasco.

These are the problems in baseball, not ONE man and what he just admitted to doing against a rule that in the baseball rule book says, if you gamble, bah bye. Note to Rose - Good bye for good.

If they had of handled the whole the right when baseball found out about it then none of this would be an issue.

This is Rose's fault. If he came clean on day one, then Pete would be in the hall right now. Bart Giamanti (sp) told Rose, if he publicly came clean and told the baseball world that he was sincerely sorry, then he'd have a short suspension and be reinstated. We are only talking about this because of Rose, he's the reason why the subject saturates the airwaves, forces baseball to stop what it's doing to explain. In all the world, I hate Selig, but if he reinstates Rose just so he can try to get more fans to the game, develop a positive tenure as commish, then he'd be first on my hit list!

CLOSING THOUGHTS... during his interview he showed no remorse, no sympathy; he was a man in an interview to sell his book for increased funds in his gambling pool. He's a con man and prying on Cincinnati sympathies. Where is he now? Is he in Cincy talking about it? Is he talking the same city that supported him the most, embraced him through the turbulent times? NO! Side note - Rose picked up massive $ for this interview. Way to go!

Rose (the person, not just the player nor the manager, which are the same person) broke a rule that clearly said, banned for life, and no matter what he says, baseball -- with all of it's problems -- needs to make the proper decision and say NO to Rose. In contradiction, if he were to stand in front of GAB with channel 5,9,12 (all of the local channels) and say it while on a podium with NO book coming out the same day then I'd have a completely different tone.

While I understand that I can’t talk any one into my thinking and those who can’t stop believing that Rose should be in the hall, my opinion is based off the what Peter Edward Rose has done since his signing the ban; continuous betting, consistent lying and playing off the sympathies of life long Reds fans (including me)!

Fact is, he's making money doing this and that speaks volumes about the man.

BTW - The interview was done the day after (maybe before) Christmas and that next day, he want to the tracks and dropped 15k. Didn't he say he wouldn't bet again? Hum! That's really convincing of his desire to change.

[BengalszoneBilly]

The name of the place in Cooperstown is called simply the "Hall Of Fame". Not the "Hall Of Ethics".

It's about players who played the game at a level that brought them fame as a player. Anything more that you attach to it is pure politics. Politics suck. They always have, and always will. Sure, he phucked up. It doesn't make him any less (Hall Of) Famous. In fact he's gaining even more fame as we talk about this here!!

I can't believe how pious all these anti Pete Rose arguments are sounding. It's about his achievements as a player. They CANNOT be denied as being absolutely incredible.

Sadly, what also cannot be denied is he's still phucking up as we speak!! He's only hurting himself with this book release. He's a sick man. But he was an incredible player, the likes of which we haven't seen since since, nor probably will again. To him when he played, it was all about WINNING. With todays players, it's all about how big is my contract, and can I make more money elsewhere. (It seems it's still all about money, eh?) Cal Ripken was the last player who was even close to Pete for the pure love of the game.

Ask most any baseball fan right now who's the most prominent name in the world of baseball at this moment. Nine out of ten answers you're gonna get today is "Pete Rose". How much more fame does this man need to fill his "fame quota" to get into the goddam Hall Of Fame? Just put him in for his achievements as a player, then put him out to pasture.

I'll be the first to concede he has no place in the game now! But for the Hall Of Fame...I truly believe we can't leave that void in the games history! That's what Cooperstown documents, the game and it's history!! We shouldn't pick and choose the chapters we want in it because they're unsavory. It still happened, and it was still baseball! Leave the politics to the pencil necked geeks in Washington D.C.! I'm not saying what he did was right. It certainly wasn't. I'm just saying for the good of baseball, lets swallow this bitter pill, and move on.

God, I so loved Pete as a player...I just hate him now for how he's continuing to bring a negative light on his achievements as an incomperable player with his unending greed today. The more this drags out, the more people will buy his books, and the richer he'll get. He doesn't need any more gambling money.

[San Antonio Bengal]

Baseball is NOT a game structured around ethics and morals. If you have drug abuse, they are lenient because -- lets be honest -- it hurts the game way LESS than gambling. This game wasn't designed to make role models of players for kids, that's the parents job to say BOTH is wrong.

I agree that both are wrong, but how can you say that drug abuse hurts the game less than gambling?? Both have the potential to destroy the game. One is no worse than the other. Both are addictions and should be treated as such. However, I only see a couple incidents of gambling looking back over the years. However, there are crackheads and steroid junkies all over the place. If anything is going to destroy baseball, it is going to be this unchecked drug use. It has already harmed many more people than gambling and therefore harmed the game itself more than what gambling ever has.

As for Rose, I do not care what he has or has not done, but the rules of baseball are the rules of baseball and those rules are arbitrary by their very nature. Therefore, I'm not going to say that he needs to get reinstated or not or in the hall of fame or not. That's something for the commish to figure out. And no one else.

Anyway, I can't even believe that I'm writing a post in the baseball forum since I do not care for the game at all. I guess I was curious to see what kind of witty Pete Rose banter was flying around in here.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I agree that both are wrong, but how can you say that drug abuse hurts the game less than gambling?? Both have the potential to destroy the game. One is no worse than the other.

However, I only see a couple incidents of gambling looking back over the years. However, there are crackheads and steroid junkies all over the place. If anything is going to destroy baseball, it is going to be this unchecked drug use. It has already harmed many more people than gambling and therefore harmed the game itself more than what gambling ever has.

I couldn't have put it better. To say something has the "potential" to do destroy anything is pure opinion and speculation, but without those things, we wouldn't have much fodder for forums as we have here, now would we?

[The Brew Man]

After watching the interview last night, I lost even more respect for Peter Edward Rose. Growing up here in Cincy he was my hero, hell I named my dog Pete Rose! But now, to see him talking about the gambling and knowing he was lying for all those years is just ridiculous. Its sad, really sad. Pete is a dispicable character, totally a troll of a human being. And, on the same token, he had a zeal for baseball that may never be matched. You could even see it in that interview last night when he said, "seats are made for asses, and they should all be filled, every night".

Comments like that give me a soft spot for the man, but its not enough. Sure, let him have his bust in the hall, but dont let him anywhere near my game of baseball anymore.

As for the drugging arguments, baseball would love to have the likes of Strawberry and Howe banned for life, but they lost a court case to Howe years ago stating they had to allow him back in to the game because the rules didnt state that a lifetime ban was a consequence for drugs. It is for gambling however.

[Kirkendall]

but how can you say that drug abuse hurts the game less than gambling??

Simple, when you are receiving money to throw a game AWAY (not insinuating Rose did) it creates predictable outcomes not based off the performance on the field. When that happens it destroys the game. Drugs, yes they could, but they do not dictate the game as negatively as gambling. The competitive aspect of the game dissolves into another portal of destruction.

However, I only see a couple incidents of gambling looking back over the years.

Great job by MLB to enforce this rule on perhaps one of the biggest names in baseball history.

However, there are crackheads and steroid junkies all over the place.

Again, you can't blame baseball for this. This is the so-called greatest Union on Earth forcing the owners to concede the issue because the "players" think it's a violation of privacy.

Sure, let him have his bust in the hall, but dont let him anywhere near my game of baseball anymore.

How many times has a majority of the Hall of Famers said they would walk out if Rose were instated? This in itself would be the worst thing to happen in baseball!

I've been a staunch critic of Bud Selig for minor issues and failure to come through on some things, but you can't blame all of the problems on baseball.

Salary Cap? The alternate luxury tax is another benefit to big market teams that have the money to pay for overpaying payroll, a condition set up by the Union.

Drug Policy? Another union condition set up because the players believe the it would invade their privacy. However, during the contract agreements, baseball wanted to install a drug policy so to find a middle ground they would, during spring training, test random players -- players were told well in advance of when the test would happen -- and if the failure rate exceeded 5% then random drug testing would be installed in'04.

BTW - I honestly think there's way more drug abuse in football than baseball. The fact that you hear more about it baseball doesn't mean it's running around everywhere.

Sure ownership and Bug Selig have failed on some fronts. But lets discuss the all-star game, this was cancelled because the managers, through the players union didn't want to go any further. Can't blame baseball for that, but the Union.

Now back to Rose. He was a good player with a ton of heart and demanded to win every night. But he broke a rule, a rule that NO ONE IN CINCINNATI didn't know or care about until it happened to Rose. Now, it's a stupid rule because it affects us.

Should Rose be in the hall of fame as a player? Pre 21d violation? Yes. He broke a rule put in place well before he was born. You would essentially take the rule out because of one player? That justifies NOTHING. Just because he was a great player doesn't justify changing rules of a whole game in which hundreds of thousands of people played.

I'd have the same feelings if other rules that constituted a lifetime ban. The integrity of the game is dying quickly -- blaming the Union, always have -- and reinstating the same man that hasn't been in Cincy yet during this whole episode, not giving a damn about those that supported him the most will contribute to the destruction of the game.

[The Brew Man]

How many times has a majority of the Hall of Famers said they would walk out if Rose were instated? This in itself would be the worst thing to happen in baseball!

I've been a staunch critic of Bud Selig for minor issues and failure to come through on some things, but you can't blame all of the problems on baseball.

Whether or not he actually gets enough votes would still be in question. However, I dont think letting Pete in the Hall would go against the lifetime ban from baseball. He is still not allowed to go the park or on the field or be a part of any organization. I agree, Selig is not a very competent commish, but this is one thing he has done well.

[redsfan2]

How many times has a majority of the Hall of Famers said they would walk out if Rose were instated? This in itself would be the worst thing to happen in baseball!

I've been a staunch critic of Bud Selig for minor issues and failure to come through on some things, but you can't blame all of the problems on baseball.

Whether or not he actually gets enough votes would still be in question. However, I dont think letting Pete in the Hall would go against the lifetime ban from baseball. He is still not allowed to go the park or on the field or be a part of any organization. I agree, Selig is not a very competent commish, but this is one thing he has done well.

As long as he's banned he is not eligible for enshrinement in the hall.

One of the other guys said that Pete''s bats, jerseys, etc are in the hall already. Not exactly. They are in the museum which is in the same building, as is an art gallery and a store. One of the things they had for sale in the store that really cracked me up are baseballs that are autographed by Pete Rose in Silver. The baseballs are black.

[Boobie Clark]

One of the other guys said that Pete''s bats, jerseys, etc are in the hall already. Not exactly. They are in the museum which is in the same building, as is an art gallery and a store.  One of the things they had for sale in the store that really cracked me up are baseballs that are autographed by Pete Rose in Silver. The baseballs are black.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

However, I dont think letting Pete in the Hall would go against the lifetime ban from baseball. He is still not allowed to go the park or on the field or be a part of any organization.

What?! Are you kidding me? You actually justify saying Pete's not all over the HOF because his gear is ONLY in the museum? I haven't been there, so I don't know about the layout, but come on...that's just a silly argument. Are all you bashers prepared to have everything Rose-related removed from EVERY part of the HOF?

Baseball is making money off him. They're selling his autographed balls in the HOF store. Wasn't he on-field for the greatest team crap they had a few years ago? What was that all about? They get to pick how they want to use him? If they're really going to ban him, then all references to Pete Rose should now and forever be removed from any and all MLB sanctioned items, events, etc.

[Kirkendall]

Are all you bashers prepared to have everything Rose-related removed from EVERY part of the HOF?

I'm not a Rose basher, not at all. I despise people who play the sympathies of fans that loved him while playing. He's playing off this so he can, announce his deal to the world that for all intended purposes, shadowed the guys going in this year. He's making money off this that even Joe Morgan -- a huge supporter of Rose -- denounced Roses apology and when he did it.

Wasn't he on-field for the greatest team crap they had a few years ago?

This I blame Selig for because originally he wasn't supposed to be on it. But MasterCard (the sponsor of the event) and Fox plugged more money into it so Rose would be there and draw higher ratings. Gotta love Capitalism!

[BengalszoneBilly]

I still smell politics.

[Kirkendall]

Two guaranteed things in America is greed and politics.

[redsfan2]

One of the other guys said that Pete''s bats, jerseys, etc are in the hall already. Not exactly. They are in the museum which is in the same building, as is an art gallery and a store.  One of the things they had for sale in the store that really cracked me up are baseballs that are autographed by Pete Rose in Silver. The baseballs are black.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

However, I dont think letting Pete in the Hall would go against the lifetime ban from baseball. He is still not allowed to go the park or on the field or be a part of any organization.

What?! Are you kidding me? You actually justify saying Pete's not all over the HOF because his gear is ONLY in the museum? I haven't been there, so I don't know about the layout, but come on...that's just a silly argument. Are all you bashers prepared to have everything Rose-related removed from EVERY part of the HOF?

Baseball is making money off him. They're selling his autographed balls in the HOF store. Wasn't he on-field for the greatest team crap they had a few years ago? What was that all about? They get to pick how they want to use him? If they're really going to ban him, then all references to Pete Rose should now and forever be removed from any and all MLB sanctioned items, events, etc.

#1 if you haven't been to Cooperstown you need to go. I'm not trying to be a wise ass here, I mean that sincerely. Don't go during induction week. It's just too crowded to enjoy. On my first trip there, I met a young guy who had just moved there ( from Michigan I think ). He told me that for about the first month he lived there that every morning when he woke up, he thought " I'm in Cooperstown ..... and I never have to leave". Seriously you gotta go. It's special. No airport, no interstate exit for it. You drive down a 2 lane road to get there, and your thinking ..... they all drove down this same road on the way to get inducted. It's a fantastic experience from start to finish.

#2 the hall. The hall is just that its a hall with columns and on the walls are the plaques and bios of the inducted. It is an integrated but separate part of the same building that also houses the museum as I said, as well as an art gallery and a gift shop ..... store. Items froms Petes career are in the museum as they should be. They mark significant events in the game of baseball. The complete locker room of the Big Red Machine is there as well, and not all of the players on the team are in the hall either.

Leaving Petes gear out of the museum because he is banned from baseball would be a crime. It would also leave gaps in the history of the game because they list all the leaders of all the categories. The museum has everything from baseball cards to world series rings to some of the oldest baseballs and bats. Gloves too which were ridiculed as " sissy " when they were introduced.

The museum directly and the hall indirectly make money off of the sale of not only items from Pete Rose but all the other players as well whether they are enshrined or not. There is also an admittance fee. All the money goes to the upkeep of the museum ..... hall etc and to pay the salaries of the people who work there. None of it is funded by MLB for the political reasons you mention.

There have been inconsistencies in what Pete has and has not been allowed to do ..... most notably as you pointed out with regards to the all century team. I really do think though that Pete has made more money off of being banned by baseball than baseball has by banning him.

Lastly, I'm not a Pete Rose Basher. I don't bash people in general, and surely not those from my favorite team. I don't always say good things about them because they aren't always in the right. Theres an old saying that the truth hurts. If you don't believe it .... ask Pete

[redsfan2]

I should have also added that the players have been paid for their autographs on the items that are for sale in the gift shop. They don't do it for free.

Petes not the only one. Some guy won ...... like a 10' baseball bat in a contest. As a lark, he started taking it to events and getting autographs and players photos with this thing. All of them wanted to swing it. Anyway he asked Ted Williams if he would sign it, and Ted said yes. He'd do it for 10 thousand dollars. Ten Grand ....... for signing your name ....... can you imagine ????

Just because a guy is a great player doesn't mean he's a great guy.

[Kirkendall]

Great stuff Redsfan. I would love to go to the hall sometime in my life. My buddies and I were planning on doing last summer, going to all of the ballparks along the way to the HOF and then back. I'm still planning on doing that.

[Kirkendall]

But, now that I've espressed my views, if and IF Rose does get reinstated, I truly hope he buys a one way ticket back to Cincinnati. It would bring life into baseball in this other wise baseball dead city. Lets have one more wish. Bring Joe Morgan back to broadcast next to Marty when Nuxie retires for good, or even Rose broadcasts. Cincy truly has a chance at bring life into baseball with the ol' timers, the stir is back with the Bengals (in case you haven't freakin' noticed!) the exact same thing could happen with Cincy Reds.

[redsfan2]

Great stuff Redsfan.  I would love to go to the hall sometime in my life.  My buddies and I were planning on doing last summer, going to all of the ballparks along the way to the HOF and then back.  I'm still planning on doing that.

If you're a real fan of the game, you gotta go to Cooperstown. Obviousy they have the museum and the hall of fame, but even the town is an experience. Book a room or 2 right before or after the " peak season ". It'll still be a bit to the costly side, but nowhere near seasonal rates. That way you can leave the car and walk all over town. It's not that big. After about 8:00 a.m. you can forget about finding a parking spot on Mains st. or any of the near side streets.

It's even great to go into the shops and talk to the guys and ladies that own them and or work there. They'll have stories about most any ball player you bring up. I was in the shop of the Great American Bat Co., and mentioned how much I liked Johnny Bench. The lady ( owner ? ) said " yeah me too. Isn't he just the nicest guy? " I then had to admit that I meant as a player, because I'd never met him in person. She said well if you ever get the chance, don't pass it up cause he's the best. They have a series of bats that are autographed ( of course ) and one of them was the Reds from the Big Red Machine. She went on to tell me how much fun he was to talk to because he told her that as the catcher, it was also his job to tell the other guys on the team if an opposing player was taking something off his swing or favoring a foot in a particular stance etc. Talked to her for about half an hour.

That's why you want to spend a couple of days. All of the store owners love baseball period, and they've all got stories like that. Nothing major or news worthy, just every day stuff. I was real impressed with how much one of the baseball card shop owners had talked to Ted Williams, and he told me " didn't have a choice. He's his own favorite subject, and once you get him talking you can't shut the s.o.b. up." The other thing about them is that they are genuinely nice people.

I've yet to talk to a fan of any team that didn't love Cooperstown.

Shops - anything you want in the line of baseball. Ever see a Waterford Crystal baseball ??? You can get one in Cooperstown for about 300 bucks. I gave my credit card to my wife because I didn't trust myself with it.

[Kirkendall]

From my understanding and what my friends and family have told me, it's historically the best momument in all sports. The singular central location for what sports and tradition, love of the game means. Baseball crushes all sports in terms of tradition, history and loyalty. It's too bad that things have gone so south the past 10 years -- it used to be my love until everything about it pushed me away, then football became my main focus and at that time it was the 3rd year of Helplessism. What a decade of pain it was for me as I'm sure everyone else -- meaning Helplessism in terms of Mikeyism and baseball decline.