Marvin to hold press conference at 3pm

[ArmyBengal]

I could really care less about what some media d*ck thinks or says in his or her write up. The thing that gets me (And I'm much calmer today) is, no one is taking reponsibility for this. NO ONE !!! Someone is accountable for what happened out there on Sunday and I for one don't see the players being the only issue here. I want to see someone get pissed the F*CK OFF !!! I want to see some fire !!! Someone at least pretend to give a sh*t that the Browns just hung 51 points up on our defense. This is just embarrassing and so far, the organization doesn't even seem to give a sh*t about it.

Move along, nothing to see here !!!

WHODEY !!!

[The PatternMaster]

I'm screaming for answers as loudly as the next guy but I've got to admit that everytime I read a Paul Daugherty article I wonder how he still has a job. Oh, and anyone who doesn't think Lance McAllister is a card-carrying douche simply isn't paying attention. Chick Ludwig? Wasn't he they guy who critcized the Bengals for not deliberatly injuring a few Steeler players in retalitation for Palmer's injury? Or how about the national media? Who thinks they've been fair in regards to the way the Bengals have been portrayed recently? Remember the way the media deliberately distorted Lewis's point about all NFL players being "profiled" simply due to their celebrity status? If I recall correctly by the time that storm had died down Lewis had to apologize for telling the truth.

Maybe Marvin is right.

Still, I'm not asking for details. Just tell me in big broad strokes why the Bengals love vanilla so much?

Speak on it brotha Hair, speak on it!!!

People want to act like Cincy is some utopia in which everyone gets along with peace and harmony. Marvin made an honest assessment and he got burned. I would say it's been Marvin vs. the media for some time now.

Didn't Chick write an article calling the Bengals soft, didn't Daughtery write an ops ed piece slamming the Bengals before the 2004 MNF game?

Why these guys think they say whatever they want in their columns and come around the team like everything is peachy keen is beyond me, what do they think this is, the internet???

[The PatternMaster]

Maybe I'm stupid, I don't know. But look, they say football is like chess. You have to know what your opponent is doing and adjust your strategy to counter it. The way I see the Bengals and Bresnahan is that they are not adjusting not ever. If I played chess the way Bresnahan called plays, I would use only my pawns every time.

"Just do your job pawns! If you do your job, we'll win!"

"Do your job" doesn't make sense unless you're running a complete Cover 2 defense that plays to the natural strengths and instincts of its players. "Do your job" in a drop zone means you give a couple yard cushion every single play to the receivers and backs. I personally think the schemes Bresnahan calls hamper the natural instincts of the Bengals defense. Yes, there were some very bad missed tackles on Sunday. But given our talent, or at least the talent I believe the defense has, I don't think we're a 51 point team.

Here's another simple analogy.

If you're getting punched in the face repeatedly, what do you do?

Do something, anything different that makes you not get punched in the face anymore.

If you're getting scored on on every drive, what do you do?

Do something, anything different that makes you not get scored on anymore.

Not adjusting the gaps, or the assignments, or anything when you're getting rolled over is madness. Bresnahan's apparent refusal to do ANYTHING to help the Bengals win makes me question his competence. The best generals don't keep sacrificing their troops because of some sort of weird sense of pride about their tactics. They adjust their tactics to use their force as effectively as possible, no matter how different that adjustment might be from the original plans of battle.

I think that is the problem many fans and maybe players have, it seems like Bres has one plan and that's it. If it's working we have a good game, if not hold on to hats and keep the beers coming because it's going to be a long day.

To me the message he sends to his players is that they are smart enough or have enough discipline to execute a complicated scheme. Look at the Steelers defense, man for man I would say our talent level is even, excluding Troy P., but their scheme is complicated and forces qb's into pressure and bad decisions, especially young qb's who are making their 4th career start. Our defense is vanilla, a simple cover 2 zone base defense in which any qb with good protection can pick it apart(see Peyton, Drew Brees, and Derek Anderson).

The problem with the defense is complicated, Marvin has been trying to get "his" guys in here but injuries, suspensions, and lack of top FA talent have hampered the process. The '03 draft solidified the offense by adding Carson and JJ to a unit that had alot of pieces in place, the defense needed fixing and it still does.

[mgilgris]

Regardless whether the players f up or not, Marvin and his coaches picked the players that are on this team. If the players are not playing up to par or are not filling in gaps then MARVIN PICKED THE WRONG Freaking players!

Yes Marvin has had to deal with injuries and suspensions but so as every other coach. The best coaches dont give the same "vanilla" answers on do your job every week. At some point there has to be some sort of change, and we have been waiting for that change for at least 2 seasons and have yet to see one that ever panned out.

[The PatternMaster]

Regardless whether the players f up or not, Marvin and his coaches picked the players that are on this team. If the players are not playing up to par or are not filling in gaps then MARVIN PICKED THE WRONG Freaking players!

Yes Marvin has had to deal with injuries and suspensions but so as every other coach. The best coaches dont give the same "vanilla" answers on do your job every week. At some point there has to be some sort of change, and we have been waiting for that change for at least 2 seasons and have yet to see one that ever panned out.

well like it or not Marving doesn't have to answer to the fans or the media, just Mike Brown. If you feel strong enough about it the only real recourse you have is to stop supporting the Bengals while Marvin is the coach. As long as MB is comfortable with Marvin he will be the HC, so it's pretty useless demanding something from someone who doesn't have to answer to you.

[Bengals1]

well like it or not Marving doesn't have to answer to the fans or the media, just Mike Brown. If you feel strong enough about it the only real recourse you have is to stop supporting the Bengals while Marvin is the coach. As long as MB is comfortable with Marvin he will be the HC, so it's pretty useless demanding something from someone who doesn't have to answer to you.

I don't totally agree with you here PatternMaster. Although I find your agrument technically correct, Marvin doesn't "have to" answer to us the fans, it was the fans who eventually rose up and made Mike Brown hire someone like Marvin Lewis to begin with.

You can make an argument that if we the fans hadn't said "Enough is enough" five years ago SoP would still have been running this team as business as usual and we'd have had some other lame choice as our next head coach. Someone who didn't have half the power Marvin's suppose to have in player personnel areas and we'd still have out dated practice facilities and strength and conditioning regimes etc....

If the fans become outraged enough, the team will do something about it. It's just a matter of when it becomes "Enough is enough" once again.

[The PatternMaster]

well like it or not Marving doesn't have to answer to the fans or the media, just Mike Brown. If you feel strong enough about it the only real recourse you have is to stop supporting the Bengals while Marvin is the coach. As long as MB is comfortable with Marvin he will be the HC, so it's pretty useless demanding something from someone who doesn't have to answer to you.

I don't totally agree with you here PatternMaster. Although I find your agrument technically correct, Marvin doesn't "have to" answer to us the fans, it was the fans who eventually rose up and made Mike Brown hire someone like Marvin Lewis to begin with.

You can make an argument that if we the fans hadn't said "Enough is enough" five years ago SoP would still have been running this team as business as usual and we'd have had some other lame choice as our next head coach. Someone who didn't have half the power Marvin's suppose to have in player personnel areas and we'd still have out dated practice facilities and strength and conditioning regimes etc....

If the fans become outraged enough, the team will do something about it. It's just a matter of when it becomes "Enough is enough" once again.

Two things.. I thought it was Katie Blackburn's recommendation that got Marv the nod, not the fans. Sometimes I think fans can over-estimate their value and worth. Based on the product MB was putting on the field for 12 years he could care less what the fans demanded, so I don't think the fans demands weighed as heavily as you think they did.

Also, is it really that bad were enough is enough? Everyone who claims to be a fan or is associated with the team in anyway was embaressed on Sunday, everyone. But is it the end of the world? No. Do the Bengals still have a chance to play for the SuperBowl? Yes.

Look people, I hate get all Rumsfeld on ya', BUT....What you see is what you get. There are no stud defensive superstars sitting around waiting on phone call from the Bengals to ride in on a white horse and save the day, it's not going to happen. The best we can hope for is for some guys to get healthy, but we are stuck with the players and COACHES that went to Cleveland. Firing Bres right now would be asinine because starting over during the season will not help. It's time to circle the wagons and get back to the basics, see how easy it is to use the cliches they really do work sometimes.

[HairOnFire]

Welcome to the board, Bengals1.

Your signature, and your loud disdain for Mike Brown, make it abundantly clear that you'll fit right in.

Last, I offer my apologies in advance for insulting you....which I most certainly haven't done, but probably will.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I'm screaming for answers as loudly as the next guy but I've got to admit that everytime I read a Paul Daugherty article I wonder how he still has a job. Oh, and anyone who doesn't think Lance McAllister is a card-carrying douche simply isn't paying attention. Chick Ludwig? Wasn't he they guy who critcized the Bengals for not deliberatly injuring a few Steeler players in retalitation for Palmer's injury? Or how about the national media? Who thinks they've been fair in regards to the way the Bengals have been portrayed recently? Remember the way the media deliberately distorted Lewis's point about all NFL players being "profiled" simply due to their celebrity status? If I recall correctly by the time that storm had died down Lewis had to apologize for telling the truth.

Maybe Marvin is right.

Still, I'm not asking for details. Just tell me in big broad strokes why the Bengals love vanilla so much?

Speak on it brotha Hair, speak on it!!!

People want to act like Cincy is some utopia in which everyone gets along with peace and harmony. Marvin made an honest assessment and he got burned. I would say it's been Marvin vs. the media for some time now.

Didn't Chick write an article calling the Bengals soft, didn't Daughtery write an ops ed piece slamming the Bengals before the 2004 MNF game?

Why these guys think they say whatever they want in their columns and come around the team like everything is peachy keen is beyond me, what do they think this is, the internet???

Marvin's profiling comment was stupid, no matter how much you try to blame "the media" for everything. It was just stupid. Have you ever lived in another city?

If you guys think it's bad here, pat Marv's behind and share in the joy that he isn't in a city like New York or Philadelphia today. He would be crucified.

When your defense gives up 51 points to arguably the worst team in the league, you should know better than to act smug and condescending afterwards. But, that's Marv, and people are growing increasingly tired of his act, and his underachieving teams.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Regardless whether the players f up or not, Marvin and his coaches picked the players that are on this team. If the players are not playing up to par or are not filling in gaps then MARVIN PICKED THE WRONG Freaking players!

Yes Marvin has had to deal with injuries and suspensions but so as every other coach. The best coaches dont give the same "vanilla" answers on do your job every week. At some point there has to be some sort of change, and we have been waiting for that change for at least 2 seasons and have yet to see one that ever panned out.

No, Marvin is special, he never does anything wrong, and despite being passed over as a HC for years, he's the best ever, we should just be happy to have a .500 coach, despite having arguably the best QB-WR combo in the league, two pro bowl caliber tackles and a top 10 RB, a top 5 #2 WR, and 4+ years to build a defense that isn't ranked last in the league every year.

"Bad luck"

You go Marv, you go with your smugness and bad draft picks. The media guys should be praising you, not questioning you.

[HairOnFire]

If you guys think it's bad here, pat Marv's behind and share in the joy that he isn't in a city like New York or Philadelphia today. He would be crucified.

Funny thing about that. Marvin has worked in two major media markets, Baltimore and Washington, and was almost universally praised. To be fair, his methods WERE questioned from the start by the DC media, but they came around and admitted their mistake when the defense very quickly became one of the best in the NFL. To use a familiar analogy, I thinks it's fair to say when Lewis left for Cincy the scribes in Washington lined up to pat his butt.

As for Cincy, every beat writer who calls Cincy home is a small fish swimming in a small pond, and most fall asleep at night knowing that in a larger more competitive media market they'd likely be unemployed or writing obituaries. So most accept their mediocrity without complaint and pass their time on Earth writing tabloid style pieces that do little but complain about why their small market teams can't compete with the big guys.

"Where's our billionaire? Won't someone come to our rescue? Must we continue supporting nondescript millionairs running mom-and-pop franchises in a corporate world?"

Cue John Mellencamp.

"I was born in a small town...."

[Bengals1]

Welcome to the board, Bengals1.

Your signature, and your loud disdain for Mike Brown, make it abundantly clear that you'll fit right in.

Last, I offer my apologies in advance for insulting you....which I most certainly haven't done, but probably will.

Thank you, I look forward to being insulted by you. Uh...is there someone here who doesn't have disdain for SoP?

[generaldreedle]

well like it or not Marving doesn't have to answer to the fans or the media, just Mike Brown. If you feel strong enough about it the only real recourse you have is to stop supporting the Bengals while Marvin is the coach. As long as MB is comfortable with Marvin he will be the HC, so it's pretty useless demanding something from someone who doesn't have to answer to you.

I don't totally agree with you here PatternMaster. Although I find your agrument technically correct, Marvin doesn't "have to" answer to us the fans, it was the fans who eventually rose up and made Mike Brown hire someone like Marvin Lewis to begin with.

You can make an argument that if we the fans hadn't said "Enough is enough" five years ago SoP would still have been running this team as business as usual and we'd have had some other lame choice as our next head coach. Someone who didn't have half the power Marvin's suppose to have in player personnel areas and we'd still have out dated practice facilities and strength and conditioning regimes etc....

If the fans become outraged enough, the team will do something about it. It's just a matter of when it becomes "Enough is enough" once again.

Two things.. I thought it was Katie Blackburn's recommendation that got Marv the nod, not the fans. Sometimes I think fans can over-estimate their value and worth. Based on the product MB was putting on the field for 12 years he could care less what the fans demanded, so I don't think the fans demands weighed as heavily as you think they did.

Also, is it really that bad were enough is enough? Everyone who claims to be a fan or is associated with the team in anyway was embaressed on Sunday, everyone. But is it the end of the world? No. Do the Bengals still have a chance to play for the SuperBowl? Yes.

Look people, I hate get all Rumsfeld on ya', BUT....What you see is what you get. There are no stud defensive superstars sitting around waiting on phone call from the Bengals to ride in on a white horse and save the day, it's not going to happen. The best we can hope for is for some guys to get healthy, but we are stuck with the players and COACHES that went to Cleveland. Firing Bres right now would be asinine because starting over during the season will not help. It's time to circle the wagons and get back to the basics, see how easy it is to use the cliches they really do work sometimes.

The reason why KB brought ML in was because of the fans displeasure with the product on the field started to affect their pocket books. Lets not forget that in 2002, while we were going 2-14, with each home game we were setting new records for low attendance. If you do not think that MB looked at all those empty seats and saw $$$'s being taken out of his pocket, please step away from the bong!

As far as ML not having to answer to the fans, I disagree. While he does not need to tell the fans every little thing going on or wrong in Bengaldom, he does need to give us a little more than, "you wouldn't understand." That comment seems to be rather rude to give to the people that are paying him. Lets not forget, without the fans, and their money, there would not be an NFL. And last time I checked it did not take a degree from MIT to play football or understand it. Just take a look at James Brooks.

[The PatternMaster]

I'm screaming for answers as loudly as the next guy but I've got to admit that everytime I read a Paul Daugherty article I wonder how he still has a job. Oh, and anyone who doesn't think Lance McAllister is a card-carrying douche simply isn't paying attention. Chick Ludwig? Wasn't he they guy who critcized the Bengals for not deliberatly injuring a few Steeler players in retalitation for Palmer's injury? Or how about the national media? Who thinks they've been fair in regards to the way the Bengals have been portrayed recently? Remember the way the media deliberately distorted Lewis's point about all NFL players being "profiled" simply due to their celebrity status? If I recall correctly by the time that storm had died down Lewis had to apologize for telling the truth.

Maybe Marvin is right.

Still, I'm not asking for details. Just tell me in big broad strokes why the Bengals love vanilla so much?

Speak on it brotha Hair, speak on it!!!

People want to act like Cincy is some utopia in which everyone gets along with peace and harmony. Marvin made an honest assessment and he got burned. I would say it's been Marvin vs. the media for some time now.

Didn't Chick write an article calling the Bengals soft, didn't Daughtery write an ops ed piece slamming the Bengals before the 2004 MNF game?

Why these guys think they say whatever they want in their columns and come around the team like everything is peachy keen is beyond me, what do they think this is, the internet???

Marvin's profiling comment was stupid, no matter how much you try to blame "the media" for everything. It was just stupid. Have you ever lived in another city?

If you guys think it's bad here, pat Marv's behind and share in the joy that he isn't in a city like New York or Philadelphia today. He would be crucified.

When your defense gives up 51 points to arguably the worst team in the league, you should know better than to act smug and condescending afterwards. But, that's Marv, and people are growing increasingly tired of his act, and his underachieving teams.

I have lived in other cities and I can honestly say that the Cincy police are that bad.

Why would Marvin speak out on such a contraversial issue if he didn't honestly believe what he said to be true.

What I don't understand is how easy it is for someone to dismiss another person. If people are saying the CPD is profiling young black men, do you think they are saying it for the hell of it? Where there's smoke there's normally fire and since 2001 there has been smoke so..

[The PatternMaster]

well like it or not Marving doesn't have to answer to the fans or the media, just Mike Brown. If you feel strong enough about it the only real recourse you have is to stop supporting the Bengals while Marvin is the coach. As long as MB is comfortable with Marvin he will be the HC, so it's pretty useless demanding something from someone who doesn't have to answer to you.

I don't totally agree with you here PatternMaster. Although I find your agrument technically correct, Marvin doesn't "have to" answer to us the fans, it was the fans who eventually rose up and made Mike Brown hire someone like Marvin Lewis to begin with.

You can make an argument that if we the fans hadn't said "Enough is enough" five years ago SoP would still have been running this team as business as usual and we'd have had some other lame choice as our next head coach. Someone who didn't have half the power Marvin's suppose to have in player personnel areas and we'd still have out dated practice facilities and strength and conditioning regimes etc....

If the fans become outraged enough, the team will do something about it. It's just a matter of when it becomes "Enough is enough" once again.

Two things.. I thought it was Katie Blackburn's recommendation that got Marv the nod, not the fans. Sometimes I think fans can over-estimate their value and worth. Based on the product MB was putting on the field for 12 years he could care less what the fans demanded, so I don't think the fans demands weighed as heavily as you think they did.

Also, is it really that bad were enough is enough? Everyone who claims to be a fan or is associated with the team in anyway was embaressed on Sunday, everyone. But is it the end of the world? No. Do the Bengals still have a chance to play for the SuperBowl? Yes.

Look people, I hate get all Rumsfeld on ya', BUT....What you see is what you get. There are no stud defensive superstars sitting around waiting on phone call from the Bengals to ride in on a white horse and save the day, it's not going to happen. The best we can hope for is for some guys to get healthy, but we are stuck with the players and COACHES that went to Cleveland. Firing Bres right now would be asinine because starting over during the season will not help. It's time to circle the wagons and get back to the basics, see how easy it is to use the cliches they really do work sometimes.

The reason why KB brought ML in was because of the fans displeasure with the product on the field started to affect their pocket books. Lets not forget that in 2002, while we were going 2-14, with each home game we were setting new records for low attendance. If you do not think that MB looked at all those empty seats and saw $$$'s being taken out of his pocket, please step away from the bong!

As far as ML not having to answer to the fans, I disagree. While he does not need to tell the fans every little thing going on or wrong in Bengaldom, he does need to give us a little more than, "you wouldn't understand." That comment seems to be rather rude to give to the people that are paying him. Lets not forget, without the fans, and their money, there would not be an NFL. And last time I checked it did not take a degree from MIT to play football or understand it. Just take a look at James Brooks.

So your tellling me that MB saw slumping attendence and said what is going to put asses in the sits..I know I'll hire a black coach with no NFL HC experience, that will definitely get the fans back on track. Sorry I don't buy it.

[Bengals1]

My understanding is that SoP wanted Tom Coughlin after Jacksonville fired him and Katey held out for Marvin Lewis and eventually won that debate.

Now, how much if any of that is true? I don't know, another meeting I wasn't invited to along with the rest of you.

But that's the story as I understand it.

And yes, I think Marvin's comment that the reporters "wouldn't understand" is insulting. I have no great love of the 3rd estate in this country as a group but it does smack of arrogance on Lewis's part. All I can add is that to some extent the press has made Marvin out to be a savior and they can just as easily turn on him and paint him as the problem.

He ought to tread lightly here....

[HairOnFire]

Thank you, I look forward to being insulted by you. Uh...is there someone here who doesn't have disdain for SoP?

I doubt any Bengal fan holds soP in high regard, but some of us refuse to blame him for bad weather, crop circles, OR for fighting the fight that any small-market owner would be wise to. Sadly, too often this brands us as Mike Brown apologists, one of lifes heavier burdens.

BTW, soP did interview Tom Coughlin but was said to have picked Mike Mullarky(sp?) before Katie and others stepped in and made their case for Marvin.

[Bengals1]

Thank you, I look forward to being insulted by you. Uh...is there someone here who doesn't have disdain for SoP?

I doubt any Bengal fan holds soP in high regard, but some of us refuse to blame him for bad weather, crop circles, OR for fighting the fight that any small-market owner would be wise to. Sadly, too often this brands us as Mike Brown apologists, one of lifes heavier burdens.

BTW, soP did interview Tom Coughlin but was said to have picked Mike Mullarky(sp?) before Katie and others stepped in and made their case for Marvin.

Okay, got it. And yeah, that sounds like the story I heard as well with a few more details added.