mello2dope Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 NOTHING THAT MAKES ME BELEAVE THAT CINCI IS GONE TO WIN THE NORTH THEY ARE HAVING CAP PROBLEMS CAUSE THE USE ONLY THE MONEY THE NFL SPREADS AROUND TO ALL THE TEAMS AND NOT THERE MONEY THATS WHY OTHER TEAMS GET THE F/A BIG SIGNING MONEY BENGALS ARE CHEAP THEY GIVE BIG FUTURE MONEY TO SAVE ON UPFRONT MONEY THAT WAY THE NFL IS REALY PAYING THE BENGALS PLAYERS THATS HOW I FEEL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJBestInAFC Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 No need to shout mate....to hell with it...I'm really getting fed up with people ripping the Bengals for not overpaying for guys....None of the people the Bengals have "missed" out on are worth the money they are being paid...Why overpay someone when you'll handicap the team a year or two from now...When will people learn that you don't buy a team, you build it...We see what buying get's you, look at the Redksins, or for that matter the Broncos' they keep adding players via free agency to fix the holes they have and every year they come up short....You build a team through the draft and high quality low cost free agents.....If you don't believe me, look at New England, and the Panthers....and for that matter most of the past few super bowl winners were built, not bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Not to say that Mikey and Co. aren't cheap.,and that they don't turn a profit.. However other cities are in larger markets, so Brown doesn't have the mega-millions that the patriots and the Redskins have to sign free agents.. Why do you think they keep trying to put a team in L.A... they want that market money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Not to say that Mikey and Co. aren't cheap.,and that they don't turn a profit.. However other cities are in larger markets, so Brown doesn't have the mega-millions that the patriots and the Redskins have to sign free agents.. Why do you think they keep trying to put a team in L.A... they want that market money. Actually, this was a sticking point with the community that helped lead to the lawsuit. Because of the way the deal on the stadium is structured, the Bengals don't have any of the expenses that other teams have due to their leases and they still get all of the profits.Actually gives them more money than a lot of the " big market " teams. Wierd huh ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richmond_mat Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 What is dopey's point? Reading this makes me glad I'm not in the English department where I'd have to read illiterate and illedgible papers more often than I'd care to admit. Punctuation is important. If his point is that mikey and company have not spent their money wisely then he might be right. After all the team has 10% of its cap space tied up with two quarterbacks.On the other hand, the price of CBs has bubbled. There's no reason to pay a man in decline a record contract. Bailey might be worth the dough, but not many others are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 No need to shout mate....to hell with it...I'm really getting fed up with people ripping the Bengals for not overpaying for guys....None of the people the Bengals have "missed" out on are worth the money they are being paid...Why overpay someone when you'll handicap the team a year or two from now...When will people learn that you don't buy a team, you build it...We see what buying get's you, look at the Redksins, or for that matter the Broncos' they keep adding players via free agency to fix the holes they have and every year they come up short....You build a team through the draft and high quality low cost free agents.....If you don't believe me, look at New England, and the Panthers....and for that matter most of the past few super bowl winners were built, not bought. Who's talking about overpaying? We can't pay Vincent $3.3 mil or only offer Taylor $2.5? That's not over-paying, it's actually paying people market value. Overpaid is John Thornton and backup Corey Dillon. It's paying 5-year for $1.6 mil for a place kicker. If we can't shell out dollors in the future, then we'll see a lot of our stud players leave and always have to rely on the draft....and don't fed up man. It's really kept this place kickin' eh? Especially in March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 If his point is that mikey and company have not spent their money wisely then he might be right. After all the team has 10% of its cap space tied up with two quarterbacks. Well, that's still better than having over that tied up in one QB, or any player for that matter....And it's only or this year, you are just gonna get that when you have a high priced position overlap like with Kitna giving way to Palmer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 If his point is that mikey and company have not spent their money wisely then he might be right. After all the team has 10% of its cap space tied up with two quarterbacks.Well, that's still better than having over that tied up in one QB, or any player for that matter....And it's only or this year, you are just gonna get that when you have a high priced position overlap like with Kitna giving way to Palmer... Actually, aren't we paying for Akili this season too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Yes Kirk, we're still paying Akili, and someone else..? Can't remember who though.. comes to about 4 million + , so that's 2 free agents right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Yes Kirk, we're still paying Akili, and someone else..? Can't remember who though.. comes to about 4 million + , so that's 2 free agents right there. I think it's Steve Foley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 No need to shout mate.... Yeah, it seems a few people around here have a sticky "caps lock" key! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Who's talking about overpaying? We can't pay Vincent $3.3 mil or only offer Taylor $2.5? That's not over-paying, it's actually paying people market value. Overpaid is John Thornton and backup Corey Dillon. It's paying 5-year for $1.6 mil for a place kicker. If we can't shell out dollors in the future, then we'll see a lot of our stud players leave and always have to rely on the draft....and don't fed up man. It's really kept this place kickin' eh? Especially in March. Dillon is only over paid until the draft Why am I the only one that thinks the kicker deal is good value???(It helps I followed Graham when he was a Hokie....The kids got skills, you pay the kickers)Well, not shelling out the big bucks to keep your players has worked pretty well for the Eagles...(Had they been able to develop a WR, they wouldn't have had to go get what's his name) Plus it worked for the Patriots, and the Panthers...One or two key people brought in and do the rest through the draft...player wants big money, see yah.....The Bengals have shown they are willing to keep players(look at what they did for Chad) The are just showing that they aren't willing to piss away money just to win in Free Agency when they know you have to win during the season....Also, don't you think, with the fact they are being sued cause they didn't field a competative team would light a fire under them to sign some big names if that was the way you win? Simply put, teams that make a big splash in free agency don't tend to show anything come playoff time, or for that matter when your big superstar goes down to injury and they don't have the players behind to step up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Yes Kirk, we're still paying Akili, and someone else..? Can't remember who though.. comes to about 4 million + , so that's 2 free agents right there.I think it's Steve Foley. Yep, that's the man...5% of the cap in two people that were never worth it to begin with.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Why am I the only one that thinks the kicker deal is good value???(It helps I followed Graham when he was a Hokie....The kids got skills, you pay the kickers)Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely happy that we have him, but we could have gotten him for a far better value. The Bengals should have just signed him ASAP and moved on, instead the Jags changed all that. Plus it worked for the Patriots, and the Panthers...One or two key people brought in and do the rest through the draft...player wants big money, see yah.....Well that's a perception change that Marvin is trying to accomplish. People don't want to play for Cincy, it's not #1 on their hit list. Without Marvin, this team, perception-wise, would be far worse. People want to play for Billichek, he's a proven winner. People want to play for John Fox, and hopefully this perception change with the Bengals in Marvin Lewis. Hopefully this will reduce salary demands rather playing for a probably winner; which we are not right not. Right now players will play in Cincy for the money or have previously played for Marvin. Hopefully in time that will change for all players wanting to play on a winner. BTW - I hope you guys aren't thinking I'm dissing Marvin. I'm more bashing Mr. Brown here. I hate that guy and until he sells the team, will hate him forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Actually Kirk, don't look at building through the draft as a bad thing....It's actually the best way to build a team..Marvin and Co. inherited a terrible team and did wonders with them. Only by bringing in professionals to hold over the key positions until the draft picks are ready to start and take over. It's all about recycling.. Something that we haven't been doing. We're not going to get a lot of years out of Tory James, Hardy,Clemons,and Herring,etc... but Webster is young enough to build around, and so is Palmer, and CJ. We patch a couple of holes with some FA's.. draft well, and the rest will fix itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Actually Kirk, don't look at building through the draft as a bad thing....It's actually the best way to build a team..Marvin and Co. inherited a terrible team and did wonders with them. Only by bringing in professionals to hold over the key positions until the draft picks are ready to start and take over. It's all about recycling.. Something that we haven't been doing. We're not going to get a lot of years out of Tory James, Hardy,Clemons,and Herring,etc... but Webster is young enough to build around, and so is Palmer, and CJ. We patch a couple of holes with some FA's.. draft well, and the rest will fix itself. Chris, that's probably your best post to date; well other than your draft articles. Great thoughts. My only exception would be the veteran leadership factor. Not guys that have been in the league for 10 years, but guys that have done it all. Pro Bowl multiple times, multiple playoff appearances; just guys that help define a direction with character and the leadership role that guys look up to, listen, understand, and hopefully emulate. That's been the whole thing I've been trying to say. Well, plus Mike Brown sucks, but that's another post for another time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Thanks Kirk ,,, I think..??? Well let's look at what we've brought in ...Duane Clemons....--was with the Vikings when they made their post season runs in late 90's.Hardy---3 time probowler....leader of Jags defense that made playoff runs..James..---Won 2 superbowls with Broncos..also went with Raiders.Webster...--just won a superbowl 13 months ago.Herring...---Won a superbowl with Ravens, and went again with Rams. so I think , Marvin has gotten what you were looking for. Can't get it the pro-bowls at every position, but I think we've done alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Thanks Kirk ,,, I think..??? Well let's look at what we've brought in ...Duane Clemons....--was with the Vikings when they made their post season runs in late 90's.Hardy---3 time probowler....leader of Jags defense that made playoff runs..James..---Won 2 superbowls with Broncos..also went with Raiders.Webster...--just won a superbowl 13 months ago.Herring...---Won a superbowl with Ravens, and went again with Rams. so I think , Marvin has gotten what you were looking for. Can't get it the pro-bowls at every position, but I think we've done alright. I understand they were there, but that's not what I'm going for. I'm talking about veterans that helped define their positions. These guys aren't guys that players look up to. These guys don't have that piercing ability to shine thought the players by hearing a name and younger guys saying, wow! These guys don't have what I think it takes to take a player with unspoken and unproven potential high talent to a level yet seen. There's so much leadership a proven veteran can provide a younger guy, yet we really don't have that yet. We don't have that guy on defense that takes kids and molds them into why they are in the NFL. I'm talking about a guy that won their conference and was the best at their position. I don't know if that clarified my position at all, but I'm still waiting for that guy enables Marvin to spread his word and show the rest of the NFL of who we are.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 I'm talking about a guy that won their conference and was the best at their position. I don't know if that clarified my position at all, but I'm still waiting for that guy enables Marvin to spread his word and show the rest of the NFL of who we are.... I don't want the guy that was the best, I want the guy that is the best....and you don't get those via free agency....Marvin will make that guy....He did it with the Ravens and Ray Lewis...he'll do it on this defense too....Marvin has helped shed the Siberia image from this team, but it's going to take more than one season to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shworge Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Thanks Kirk ,,, I think..???  Well let's look at what we've brought in ...Duane Clemons....--was with the Vikings when they made their post season runs in late 90's.Hardy---3 time probowler....leader of Jags defense that made playoff runs..James..---Won 2 superbowls with Broncos..also went with Raiders.Webster...--just won a superbowl 13 months ago.Herring...---Won a superbowl with Ravens, and went again with Rams. so I think , Marvin has gotten what you were looking for. Can't get it the pro-bowls at every position, but I think we've done alright.I understand they were there, but that's not what I'm going for. I'm talking about veterans that helped define their positions. These guys aren't guys that players look up to. These guys don't have that piercing ability to shine thought the players by hearing a name and younger guys saying, wow! These guys don't have what I think it takes to take a player with unspoken and unproven potential high talent to a level yet seen. There's so much leadership a proven veteran can provide a younger guy, yet we really don't have that yet. We don't have that guy on defense that takes kids and molds them into why they are in the NFL. I'm talking about a guy that won their conference and was the best at their position. I don't know if that clarified my position at all, but I'm still waiting for that guy enables Marvin to spread his word and show the rest of the NFL of who we are.... Guys like this just aren't picked up in free agency, if they do so much to define their position and lead their team chances are they are staying with their original team. You have to draft and develop players like Ray Lewis and Peyton Manning. Unless you want TO to be your team leader. Don't get me wrong, I REALLY wanted Vincent to come here but here is a reason he wasn't pursued by the Eagles. Its because you don't give BIG dollars to 33 year old corners. The real exception to this rule is the Champ Bailey deal and the only reason that went down is because Washington had two marquee players on defense, could afford to let Bailey (Smoot, Springs and possible Taylor) and got incredible value in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Don't get me wrong, I REALLY wanted Vincent to come here but here is a reason he wasn't pursued by the Eagles. Its because you don't give BIG dollars to 33 year old corners. BINGO!!!The real exception to this rule is the Champ Bailey deal and the only reason that went down is because Washington had two marquee players on defense, could afford to let Bailey (Smoot, Springs and possible Taylor) and got incredible value in return.Don't know about the value in return thing...I think they got robbed...Yeah they got Portis, but they gave up a second round pick, and frickin Champ Bailey....and Really, I could run behind the denver line and get a 1000 yards.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Don't get me wrong, I REALLY wanted Vincent to come here but here is a reason he wasn't pursued by the Eagles. Its because you don't give BIG dollars to 33 year old corners. He's been a pro bowl CB for four straight years! And he signed for only $3.3 mil a year? I mean come on. This isn't "BIG dollars" for a 4 time consecutive Pro Bowl CB. Just because he's 33 means that he's out of it? Why else would Marvin Lewis himself go after him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Don't get me wrong, I REALLY wanted Vincent to come here but here is a reason he wasn't pursued by the Eagles. Its because you don't give BIG dollars to 33 year old corners. He's been a pro bowl CB for four straight years! And he signed for only $3.3 mil a year? I mean come on. This isn't "BIG dollars" for a 4 time consecutive Pro Bowl CB. Just because he's 33 means that he's out of it? Why else would Marvin Lewis himself go after him? I'd have liked to see Vincent here as well. I will say tho that if the Bengals had given him the same deal that the Bills did I'd be on here going " what the hell were you thinking ? ". The salary wouldn't have bothered me too much .............. the bonus .. just a little more, but for 6 years ?????????? Three is realistic ... 4 ( complete ) is wishful thinking, and anything beyond that is downright delusional. I also wouldn't want to hear about " Well he can play safety. " A gimpy ... old ... safety is as good as a gimpy .. old corner ........ None ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpwz Posted March 17, 2004 Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 I have always liked how the Bengals have been able to handle the cap. I agree with Browns philosiphy that you dont screw yourself 4 years down the road to win today. This is the first year that I can remember that the Bengals have been close to the cap starting FA. Look at the ravens after they won the superbowl. They had to blow their team up and start over same with the 49ers and Jacksonville. You dont win year in and year out by throwing huge amounts of money at 1 or 2 players. The redskins having been doing that and its going to come back to haunt them very soon. It is a very rare even that you actually get a Big Name Impact player in his Prime though free agency. And if you can they usually come with a lot of baggage that the Bengals dont need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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