Bratkowski will hold us back

[Kirkendall]

Why is the Defensive coordinator not being held to the same degree of scrutiny ????????

This has everything to do with talent. Offensively, we have talent that COULD rival the best in the league. Problem is that we become dimensionally one-sided hence why it's easy to defend Kitna. (I guess that's answering your first question also)

Jon Kitna and Chad Johnson had career years. Peter Warrick and Rudi Johnson showed up BIG on everyones radar screen this year. Keep in mind that this was done with a rookie starting on an offensive line that was .... to be nice about it ....... thin. It was also an offense that was without the services of its #1 running back, as well as the established #2 receiver for most of the year. The team routinely scored 20 and 30 points, did score 40 once and could have a couple of other times but took a knee instead.

I think if you look at the numbers per quarter, as the game went on against defenses that become tired, our numbers dramatically increased. Personally, I think we won a few games we shouldn't have against good teams and lost games against bad teams that we should have won.

I think any RB on our team would have had the numbers that Rudi had. Rudi Johnson's numbers come in the late quarters against defenses that are horriblely weak in the first place and tired by the end of the 3rd and all of the 4th quarter. This is one of the many reasons why I'm not convinced that Rudi Johnson is the answer to our feature back question.

[redsfan2]

Kinda thought that you might be the first one to jump on this one. Your points are well taken, but as to the offense, while it may have had a corps of players as good as anywhere, fact is that after the starters they were weak. Lack of depth. Wide receiver ....... guard ........ center ....... to a certain degree tight end. You yourself pointed out that the defense knew what was coming by which te was on the field, and you were right. Not sure I agree about the running back either. I was skeptical of Rudi, and I admit it. Watson was available but unable to replace him and to a certain degree, the same can be said of Dillon .... after he got healthy. If ...... if K Wash improves ..... Warricks season wasn't a fluke, and we develop Schobel into the all purpose te that he should be, then we have the skill players to compete with anybody in the league no matter who the starting qb is. The line is where we need the help.

A lot of the offensive numbers did come in the second half when the opponents defense had worn down, but that is true of wins by any team. It's SOP to wear down the defense. You'll also recall that in a couple of games, that we built leads early only to see them erode towards the end of the game. KC, San Diego, and Baltimore are 3 that I can think of where we had big leads early and then had to hold on.

I have to cut this off because I have to go pick up a friend who is stranded. I'll log another post to complete this when I get back.

[chrishcovga]

Good point about Leslie Frazier being held accountable. The only excuse that i can come up with, IT's his first time as a defensive coordinator... New players...etc..etc..etc..

Bratkowski's been running the same system with virtually the same players since 2001. So there's more fuel for the fire on his case. Also, at many a times the playcalling leaned to heavy to the pass instead of the running game.We have a good running game.Games like the Arizona,Baltimore pt.2,Stl. rams,not leaving Dillon in against the Browns, were signs that we got too greedy as an offense.We know the system works by the stats that we can produce when everything is working right. A testament that we could go even farther offensively if Palmer turns out to be the Real deal.

However, Lewis said during pre-season that "we're 5 or 6 players away defensively from being a championship caliber team."

I have to think that with a draft that focuses on the defense this year, instead of the offense like last year, Plus a FA or 2 could be the difference our defense needs to at least climb out of the cellar and be around 10-14 next year in rank.

Our offense was like 10th in the league, so if we can get our defense to be on the better half of 32 teams, have to figure we'll be in the playoffs on a regular basis.

We can all dream that both systems will work next year.

[Kirkendall]

You'll also recall that in a couple of games, that we built leads early only to see them erode towards the end of the game. KC, San Diego, and Baltimore are 3 that I can think of where we had big leads early and then had to hold on.

This I blame on the offense becoming conservative, going three and out at times. Just like those DAMNED BUCKEYES!

I'm going back to the original point that Bratkowski should be held more accountable than Frazier. I think Brats system, that requires career years from his QB, WR and RB then we are in trouble. Name more three guys that had more impact on their respected positions on offense better than say Chad, Willie Anderson or Rudi.

We have many gaps on offense, sure, I'm not denying that; in fact I've been the loudest about our offensive problems. But in terms of coaches, I think that Brat, with the high quality players -- including two pro-bowl picks -- should have done more with his side of the ball than Fraizer who lacks quality personnel.

[redsfan2]

Sorry I had to break away like that.

Anyway ...... the last point was to the games won vs the games we lost. We should have beaten the Raiders and the Bills. We had the both of them on the ropes and let them off. Two more games we were capable of winning were the Cards and the Browns. I can't honestly say that we should have beaten them because the team was just flat in both of those games.

I am interested in who you feel were a couple of the better teams we beat that maybe we shouldn't have though. I thought just about all of our wins were pretty solid. The Seahawks did go down to the wire, but there too we had a pretty good lead and let it get away.

** Didn't see your post before I added my reply. I don't know that I can agree that blowing a lead is the fault of the offense. Not saying they get off the hook clean, but by the same token they shouldn't be expected to score every time they touch the ball to keep a lead.

[redsfan2]

Good point about Leslie Frazier being held accountable. The only excuse that i can come up with, IT's his first time as a defensive coordinator... New players...etc..etc..etc..

Bratkowski's been running the same system with virtually the same players since 2001. So there's more fuel for the fire on his case. Also, at many a times the playcalling leaned to heavy to the pass instead of the running game.We have a good running game.Games like the Arizona,Baltimore pt.2,Stl. rams,not leaving Dillon in against the Browns, were signs that we got too greedy as an offense.We know the system works by the stats that we can produce when everything is working right. A testament that we could go even farther offensively if Palmer turns out to be the Real deal.

However, Lewis said during pre-season that "we're 5 or 6 players away defensively from being a championship caliber team."

I have to think that with a draft that focuses on the defense this year, instead of the offense like last year, Plus a FA or 2 could be the difference our defense needs to at least climb out of the cellar and be around 10-14 next year in rank.

Our offense was like 10th in the league, so if we can get our defense to be on the better half of 32 teams, have to figure we'll be in the playoffs on a regular basis.

We can all dream that both systems will work next year.

I agree about this being Fraziers first year. It was Lewis's as well, and while we don't ususlly point it out here, there were a few times that he could have done a little better as well.

I've also read coach Lewis' comments about the need to upgrade the players on the defensive side of the ball. I still maintain that if that is done and there is not a corresponding improvement to the defense overall, then someone is going to pay. It may not be Frazier himself, but it would likely be the position coach or assistant that Lewis deemed the weak spot on the defense.

Again, I'm just going by what the coach is saying when he points to the defense as the part of the team that needs to improve. He hasn't been shy about saying that and adding that it is time for some of the rookies to step up, so I can only interpret his lack of comments about the offense to mean that he is not dis satisfied with their effort this season.

[Kirkendall]

We should have lost to KC, but we played way better than we should have and KC looked extremely flat -- like we did at Arizona, Buffalo and Pitt I. We should have lost to Seattle, but when Hasselbeck throws 3 interceptions and Seattle loses 2 fumbles and we ONLY win by 3, there's a problem there. We should have lost to Baltimore, but the Ed Reed tip to Chad Johnson enabled that one touchdown that eventually won it.

All of the games we were heavily favored to lose, was won by the defense. The five turnovers against Seattle, more or less stopping Jamal Lewis in Balt. I, holding KC to 19 points when they were the highest scoring offense in the league.

NOTE TO EVERYONE -- I understand that could haves would haves and should haves mean nothing in the end. I understand that circumstances in the games mentioned above reflect every game in the NFL, and just because it's against the Bengals doesn't signify we earned anything; rather mother luck was on our side and we all know that luck has a ton to do with every game. I also understand that strange occurances in the NFL isn't rare and things like the above mentioned happen. I'm merely responding to an earlier thread from our Truckin' Bozo.

BTW - RedsFan, that's your new name.

[redsfan2]

NOTE TO EVERYONE -- I understand that could haves would haves and should haves mean nothing in the end.  I understand that circumstances in the games mentioned above reflect every game in the NFL, and just because it's against the Bengals doesn't signify we earned anything; rather mother luck was on our side and we all know that luck has a ton to do with every game.  I also understand that strange occurances in the NFL isn't rare and things like the above mentioned happen.  I'm merely responding to an earlier thread from our Truckin' Bozo. 

BTW - RedsFan, that's your new name. 

Conjecture is cool. Remember, I said I was playing devils advocate and trying to get some conversation going on. Plus that, most of the posts here are based on or consist of what ifs etc. Facts stats etc. are good and I am impressed with the human search engine named Joisey just like everyone else is. Thing is though that there are only so many stats etc and after we went through them once, all the posts would be repeats. Gotta have the personal opinions. Conversations are vanilla without them. Need the stats too. Said before nothing like a good hard shot of cold facts to settle an argument.

Back to it ....

KC ..... I don't think it was so much that they were flat, as it was that they didn't take us serious. I think KC was a good solid team win. It gave a glimpse of what the team was going to be capable of.

Both defens and offense .......... Special teams too for that matter

Seattle - We had to come from behind on them, so I think the offense came up when it had to.

Baltimore - Cj's catch was a combination of luck and heads up play. The ball took a good bounce for us, but he still had to keep his focus to make the catch after that. Plus that we took a knee at the end of the game when we could have scored so disallow the Cj catch and take the score we took a knee on and its still a wash.

As to Truckin Bozo ..... I've been called worse by people I liked less. That just cracked me up.

:lo