I blame Boomer and Dillon

[walzav29]

We were off to a wonderful 1-7 start, and then those 2 knuckleheads go and ruin the rest of the season in 1997. What happend? The Bengals go 6-2 after 1-7 and the Colts get the #1 pick. Peyton Manning. I watched him yesterday and was just amazed.

[Ickey44]

It's not like they haven't had other chances. They picked Akili Smith instead of McNabb in '99. If they had the top pick that year, chances are they would've picked Leaf. That's just how our luck went back then.

[kingwilly]

Don't ever blame the outcome of poor management on players who play to win.

The problem then, and continues to this day, should be obvious. It starts at the top. SoP.

Sure, the BSFN (blind squirrel finding a nut) theorem can correlate and explain what happened this year. Do it again next year and I might be convinced the squirrel is not as blind as once thought. Which posits another tough question: If the squirrel is not blind, what is the explanation for all the previous failings? Another way is to ask: If you knew that losing could be overcome by hiring better coaches and bringing in higher profile players (not buying the whole "cast-off" story, these guys are players - Tank, Crocker, Odom, Benson) why was this not done to a greater extent before?

No one would come? or SoP wouldn't pay?

SoP is too cheap, and ran the place like a family 5 and dime?

After this latest lesson in winning, reverting back to the previous style of play and result would be catastrophic...

[Pidge]

Regardless of whether Mikey (I assume he is the squirrel in question) is blind, last yr's draft was great. Not one reach, not one project, and major areas of need addressed. Maybe the squirrel was busy looking for his nuts elsewhere? As long as he off stuffing nuts in his mouth somewhere else next April I will look for another solid, sensible draft from the coaches.

[kingwilly]

Regardless of whether Mikey (I assume he is the squirrel in question) is blind, last yr's draft was great. Not one reach, not one project, and major areas of need addressed. Maybe the squirrel was busy looking for his nuts elsewhere? As long as he off stuffing nuts in his mouth somewhere else next April I will look for another solid, sensible draft from the coaches.

Could be.

During last years draft we were all sitting there wondering where SoP had been tied up and hidden.

Maybe they can let him know there is a 90% off sale at the Lazarus outlet in Kenwood...

[jjakq27]

We had a shot a Brees in 2001 also. He was gone (No. 32) when it was our turn again in the 2nd (No. 36). We took Justin Smith at No. 4 in the 1st. Hindsight would have said to trade down and get a couple of picks and select Brees at the end of the 1st round.

So what if the Bengals had a shot at Suh or some other great player of the future this year. Would you trade that for a 10 and 6 record and a playoff game? No thanks not me.

[walzav29]

Don't ever blame the outcome of poor management on players who play to win.

The problem then, and continues to this day, should be obvious. It starts at the top. SoP.

Sure, the BSFN (blind squirrel finding a nut) theorem can correlate and explain what happened this year. Do it again next year and I might be convinced the squirrel is not as blind as once thought. Which posits another tough question: If the squirrel is not blind, what is the explanation for all the previous failings? Another way is to ask: If you knew that losing could be overcome by hiring better coaches and bringing in higher profile players (not buying the whole "cast-off" story, these guys are players - Tank, Crocker, Odom, Benson) why was this not done to a greater extent before?

No one would come? or SoP wouldn't pay?

SoP is too cheap, and ran the place like a family 5 and dime?

After this latest lesson in winning, reverting back to the previous style of play and result would be catastrophic...

Maybe he's learning a little bit. I know that Marvin and Zimmer are really respected around the league. The fact that they stick around is a positive sign. Look at Oakland. At this point they have screwed so much up that they can't even get a real coach. To me next year will be a real indicator of this team. This season could have just been because of the schedule, next years is alot tougher. But you have to give Brown SOME credit. He signed good free agents and had a good draft. Maybe he's learning to. It's taken a while, but it's hope.

[HairOnFire]

During last years draft we were all sitting there wondering where SoP had been tied up and hidden.

But some of us didn't join the circle jerk, did we?

In fact, I still say last years draft had Mike Browns fingerprints all over it....just as the previous draft did.

Not joking.

[walzav29]

During last years draft we were all sitting there wondering where SoP had been tied up and hidden.

But some of us didn't join the circle jerk, did we?

In fact, I still say last years draft had Mike Browns fingerprints all over it....just as the previous draft did.

Not joking.

"But some of us didn't join the circle jerk, did we?" - What do you mean?

[Jet23]

During last years draft we were all sitting there wondering where SoP had been tied up and hidden.

But some of us didn't join the circle jerk, did we?

In fact, I still say last years draft had Mike Browns fingerprints all over it....just as the previous draft did.

Not joking.

"But some of us didn't join the circle jerk, did we?" - What do you mean?

I dunno. Maybe he didn't want to eat the cracker...

[Kazkal]

Regardless of whether Mikey (I assume he is the squirrel in question) is blind, last yr's draft was great. Not one reach, not one project, and major areas of need addressed. Maybe the squirrel was busy looking for his nuts elsewhere? As long as he off stuffing nuts in his mouth somewhere else next April I will look for another solid, sensible draft from the coaches

All the Stars Aligned for us to have a good draft,That or Marvin & Zimmer locked mikey in to a closet.

[kingwilly]

During last years draft we were all sitting there wondering where SoP had been tied up and hidden.

But some of us didn't join the circle jerk, did we?

In fact, I still say last years draft had Mike Browns fingerprints all over it....just as the previous draft did.

Not joking.

The handling of the Andre Smith signing was about all I can see had the imprint of SoP and snowflake.

The personnel choices were downright un-SoP.

now, 2008 had the whip-marks of an SoP draft...

Rivers - solid but not worth a No 10 overall selection REACH

Simpson - an Al Davis-esque reach who cannot learn to run NFL plays REACH

Sims - the unmotivated monster...project

Caldwell - good value but limited upsides

Collins - came out early and though started, is more of a project than folks want to admit

Shirley - red-flags off the field and huge project on the field, now moved to offensive line?

Lynch - small school star who is destined to be a ST'er and back-up

Sherry - PS fodder

Craig - PS fodder

Urrutia - PS fodder

[BengalPimp]

During last years draft we were all sitting there wondering where SoP had been tied up and hidden.

But some of us didn't join the circle jerk, did we?

In fact, I still say last years draft had Mike Browns fingerprints all over it....just as the previous draft did.

Not joking.

"But some of us didn't join the circle jerk, did we?" - What do you mean?

I dunno. Maybe he didn't want to eat the cracker...

Huh? What? Huh?

[HAPPYJAQ]

During last years draft we were all sitting there wondering where SoP had been tied up and hidden.

But some of us didn't join the circle jerk, did we?

In fact, I still say last years draft had Mike Browns fingerprints all over it....just as the previous draft did.

Not joking.

The handling of the Andre Smith signing was about all I can see had the imprint of SoP and snowflake.

The personnel choices were downright un-SoP.

now, 2008 had the whip-marks of an SoP draft...

Rivers - solid but not worth a No 10 overall selection REACH

Simpson - an Al Davis-esque reach who cannot learn to run NFL plays REACH

Sims - the unmotivated monster...project

Caldwell - good value but limited upsides

Collins - came out early and though started, is more of a project than folks want to admit

Shirley - red-flags off the field and huge project on the field, now moved to offensive line?

Lynch - small school star who is destined to be a ST'er and back-up

Sherry - PS fodder

Craig - PS fodder

Urrutia - PS fodder

I agree with this.

In fact, with these guys having a full two seasons in the Bengals system, what looked to be a pretty strong draft on paper initially, might go down as one of the worst in recent history. The top 3 picks who have even contributed (Rivers, Sims and Caldwell) all looked to have maxed-out their potential. Rivers should be a solid starter for the Bengals, basically in the Brian Williams mold, and Caldwell looks like another Ron Dugans-type to me. Sims might be one of the "All-Hamilton County" players Marvin was referring to as a guy who looks great in the preseason and camps, but doesn't make the transition to being in impact player during the regular season. I don't see any of the three making a Pro Bowl-type leap in their careers, although all could be solid contributors. The last five picks from that draft could be out of the NFL by the time the '10 season starts.

Let's hope that Simpson and Sims can turn the corner in this class, otherwise it could be compared to the Chris Perry/Madieu Williams draft of a few years back. I still have high hopes for Jerome, but it's very discouraging that he hasn't even been a factor in his 32+ games as a Bengal, for where he was picked in the draft.

[cincyhokie]

During last years draft we were all sitting there wondering where SoP had been tied up and hidden.

But some of us didn't join the circle jerk, did we?

In fact, I still say last years draft had Mike Browns fingerprints all over it....just as the previous draft did.

Not joking.

The handling of the Andre Smith signing was about all I can see had the imprint of SoP and snowflake.

The personnel choices were downright un-SoP.

now, 2008 had the whip-marks of an SoP draft...

Rivers - solid but not worth a No 10 overall selection REACH

Simpson - an Al Davis-esque reach who cannot learn to run NFL plays REACH

Sims - the unmotivated monster...project

Caldwell - good value but limited upsides

Collins - came out early and though started, is more of a project than folks want to admit

Shirley - red-flags off the field and huge project on the field, now moved to offensive line?

Lynch - small school star who is destined to be a ST'er and back-up

Sherry - PS fodder

Craig - PS fodder

Urrutia - PS fodder

I agree with this.

In fact, with these guys having a full two seasons in the Bengals system, what looked to be a pretty strong draft on paper initially, might go down as one of the worst in recent history. The top 3 picks who have even contributed (Rivers, Sims and Caldwell) all looked to have maxed-out their potential. Rivers should be a solid starter for the Bengals, basically in the Brian Williams mold, and Caldwell looks like another Ron Dugans-type to me. Sims might be one of the "All-Hamilton County" players Marvin was referring to as a guy who looks great in the preseason and camps, but doesn't make the transition to being in impact player during the regular season. I don't see any of the three making a Pro Bowl-type leap in their careers, although all could be solid contributors. The last five picks from that draft could be out of the NFL by the time the '10 season starts.

Let's hope that Simpson and Sims can turn the corner in this class, otherwise it could be compared to the Chris Perry/Madieu Williams draft of a few years back. I still have high hopes for Jerome, but it's very discouraging that he hasn't even been a factor in his 32+ games as a Bengal, for where he was picked in the draft.

I understand that Rivers and Sims aren't the flashiest of defensive players stat wise. Didn't we finish #4 in overall defense? I would think these 2 guys were a big part of that. Add to the fact neither has played 2 full seasons in the league yet. 2 good, solid picks who I don't think have hit their ceiling yet at all.

Where were Peko, Joseph, and Hall's ceiling after 2006 and 2007 when we finished in the bottom of the league in defense?

Caldwell? He had a decent rookie season and then came through with 2 of the biggest TD catches in this teams history. His production went down as the rest of the passing game did, no receiver had a good 2nd half of the year. He's another player that has brought something to this team and still has alot of upside.

[firemarvinNOW]

Andre Smith? Yes last year was a great draft!!!! He cant play LT cant pass block and broke his foot because he is to fat. Oher made the all Rookie team.

[walzav29]

Andre Smith? Yes last year was a great draft!!!! He cant play LT cant pass block and broke his foot because he is to fat. Oher made the all Rookie team.

Andre Smith will be good. He was in late and fell behind. The guy will have all offseason, and it's never a good idea to put a late to camp rookie in to protect your franchises blind-side. You'll see he'll be the best O-lineman they have by end of next year.

[HairOnFire]

The handling of the Andre Smith signing was about all I can see had the imprint of SoP and snowflake.

Like hell. Andre Smith was a pure need pick who fell because of character concerns. Bargain! Plus, it was widely assumed Mike Brown would take advantage of Smith's inexperienced agent to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, and most accounts confirm this indeed happened. Double bargain!

Rey Maualuaga was a pure need pick who slipped into the 2nd round for numerous reasons. Bargain!

Chase Coffman was a pure need pick so unready to play he never did. Plus, he had an injury that may have caused him to slip. Reach! Bargain! Bust?

Michael Johnson was a pure need pick who fell because of a long history of spotty but occasionaly spectacular play. Bargain!

Kevin Huber was a pure need pick guaranteed a starters role almost from the moment he was drafted...thereby allowing the Bengals to dump an expensive veteran contract. Fiscal responsibility!

Bernard Scott had so much character baggage he had to rent a storage shed to hold it all. Bargain! Redemption!

Morgan Trent has every physical tool needed to play CB but none of the instincts. Think of the teaching opportunities!

Fui Vakapuna was a pure need pick selected in the event Jeremi Johnson couldn't drag his heavily loaded wagon out of the ditch. Contingency plan!

And Clinton McDonald became simply the latest Bengal player drafted specifically with the practice squad in mind. (Mario Urrutia anyone?)

Add up all of the bargains, factor in a reach or two, then account for the inevitable character concerns that were flatly ignored due to the prospects superior level of talent. Add at least one offensive skill player drafted inspite of character concerns. Finally, take the whole bunch and feed it through a "Pure Need" filter.

That's a Mike Brown draft from start to finish.

[Sea Ray]

It's not like they haven't had other chances. They picked Akili Smith instead of McNabb in '99. If they had the top pick that year, chances are they would've picked Leaf. That's just how our luck went back then.

Revisionist history. McNabb was gone by the time we drafted Akili. Our choices were Akili, Cade McNown or Daunte Culpepper

[Sea Ray]

I agree with this.

In fact, with these guys having a full two seasons in the Bengals system, what looked to be a pretty strong draft on paper initially, might go down as one of the worst in recent history. The top 3 picks who have even contributed (Rivers, Sims and Caldwell) all looked to have maxed-out their potential. Rivers should be a solid starter for the Bengals, basically in the Brian Williams mold, and Caldwell looks like another Ron Dugans-type to me.

Brian Williams? You mean the NBC News anchor? Or maybe Brian Simmons, the LB from North Carolina?

[HairOnFire]

now, 2008 had the whip-marks of an SoP draft...

No argument.

One takes the good with the bad, right?

That said, I'd say the 2008 draft is defined by the greasy fingerprints and clown shoe footprints left by Ocho Stinko.

[HairOnFire]

Oher made the all Rookie team.

And for that he should thank Sandra Bullock.

[Sea Ray]

We were off to a wonderful 1-7 start, and then those 2 knuckleheads go and ruin the rest of the season in 1997. What happend? The Bengals go 6-2 after 1-7 and the Colts get the #1 pick. Peyton Manning. I watched him yesterday and was just amazed.

The mistake made that year was not starting Boomer sooner. That complacency of a day late and a dollar short defined the Bengals. They stuck with Jeff Blake all too long. In fact wasn't it vs the Colts that Blake was benched in favor of Boomer? Ironic.

Had Boomer replaced Blake sooner the Bengals would have gone to the playoffs that year.

[Sea Ray]

I wonder what the issue is with Jerome Simpson and surprisingly precious little has been written about it. It is highly unusual for a healthy, top of the 2nd rd pick to play so little in two years. especially given the injuries and need at his position. I'm not 100% convinced it's all on Jerome. I'm not sure that he's been coached properly but since so little has been written, I honestly don't know.

I'd like to know why he hasn't played more and why they've kept him. How those answers jive would be very interesting

[Ickey44]

It's not like they haven't had other chances. They picked Akili Smith instead of McNabb in '99. If they had the top pick that year, chances are they would've picked Leaf. That's just how our luck went back then.

Revisionist history. McNabb was gone by the time we drafted Akili. Our choices were Akili, Cade McNown or Daunte Culpepper

Oh, I thought Akili went second. Oh well, I still say Mikey would've picked Leaf if we were in that spot....