Chad Tour

[BengalByTheBay]

That said, are we talking about reality, because I don't think any team in the league is floating that deal at this point.

Why not? Didn't Chad prove he hasn't lost a step....as rumored? And isn't he a reformed person now? So why shouldn't the Bengals expect the same type of better-than-projected trade packages they've gotten two years in a row? Weren't those trade offers made under fire sale conditions that no longer exist?

If you're going to argue with me, at least point out something I've said to argue with. I never said he hasn't lost a step, I just said he had a better season than 2008 with a good attitude. And what trade offer are you referring to from last year -- I am aware of none.

[BengalByTheBay]

With the mileage on Palmer, I'm looking to build next year not start over.

I think everyone agrees with that sentiment. However, whether it's this offseason or next offseason - the situation with Chad will have to addressed one way or another. Hopefully they bag a good WR this April and get him ready for the future because no matter if Chad stays or goes this yr he's going. Sooner than some, it would appear, would like to admit.

I already said above that I'm in favor of drafting Chad's replacement this year. I think he needs a season to play before we look to him to carry the load at #1 WR though.

[Sea Ray]

I can't say for sure if he's lost a step but if I'm talking trade with Mike Brown I do claim that he has given his lack of big plays the last couple of years.

Bottomline is it's possible that he has

[HairOnFire]

So, you think that Chad is worth more than a 2nd rounder, heh? Question is, does anybody else in the league? I'm guessing .... no.

Fair enough, but I remind you now how I correctly pegged Chad's trade value two years in a row, and in each example I stuck to my guns for months even as poster after poster quoted the likes of Peter King about how Chad was only worth a 3rd or 4th round pick.

That said, I do understand how someone who doesn't want to consider trading Chad would attempt to devalue what he might bring in return.

So, in shopping for the groceries, are you still happy to push the cart with a low 2nd rounder or below in it in exchange for Chad?

Happy? No. Because that's substandard trade return for Chad, and I think most of you know it. But for the record, I would consider trading Chad for as little as a low 2nd round pick, with a sweetner thrown in, if the Bengals sign a veteran WR in free agency. And the reason I agree to such a trade is because I know it's the last chance I'll ever have to get something of value out of Chad.

[BengalByTheBay]

So, you think that Chad is worth more than a 2nd rounder, heh? Question is, does anybody else in the league? I'm guessing .... no.

Fair enough, but I remind you now how I correctly pegged Chad's trade value two years in a row, and in each example I stuck to my guns for months even as poster after poster quoted the likes of Peter King about how Chad was only worth a 3rd or 4th round pick.

That said, I do understand how someone who doesn't want to consider trading Chad would attempt to devalue what he might bring in return.

You'd better ice down your arm after patting yourself on the back so firmly. How did you correctly peg Chad's trade value last year? What was the firm offer that the Bengals rejected that clearly demonstrated the value? I don't recall any offers for Chad last year. And no, rumors don't cut it because you're exactly like Peter King who is probably bragging about how he has correctly pegged Chad's trade value too.

The only way you can be "right" about this is if Chad is traded for a high second or first rounder. Maybe you'll be right. I completely doubt it, but maybe so. If not, however, you don't like the thought of trading him for a second round pick unless there's a "sweetner" thrown in and a FA receiver picked up in the bargain. In short, to steal a phrase from Hacksaw Hamilton ... "so you're agreeing with me."

[HairOnFire]

So, you think I'm a fat, coffee swilling jackass.

No, I pegged you as a tea drinker. Admittedly, a fat tea swilling jackass, but the distinction is clear enough.

Fair enough, where in the first round do you expect we will be offered a pick in exchange for Chad?

I'm actually of the opinion that Chad is now worth a 2nd round pick, with at least one sweetner thrown in...be it a conditional pick, a mid round throw in, or a veteran player.

And yeah, for me it's enough.

[HairOnFire]

How did you correctly peg Chad's trade value last year? What was the firm offer that the Bengals rejected that clearly demonstrated the value?

Chad's agent claimed he had a firm offer of a 1st and a 3rd for Chad last year, but for the 2nd year in a row the Bengals refused to listen.

And no, rumors don't cut it because you're exactly like Peter King who is probably bragging about how he has correctly pegged Chad's trade value too.

Peter King can claim anything he wants, including how he can still look down and occasionaly see his own dick, but we know better.

The only way you can be "right" about this is if Chad is traded for a high second or first rounder.

That's true only if I adopt your habit of ignoring trade offers made simply because they were rejected. But why would anyone do this? In fact, a rejected trade offer is proof of a players value being higher than the offer made, right?

[BengalByTheBay]

So, you think I'm a fat, coffee swilling jackass.

No, I pegged you as a tea drinker. Admittedly, a fat tea swilling jackass, but the distinction is clear enough.

Funny -- possibly the least accurate description of myself I've ever heard, but how would you know right?

Pleasantries aside, are we really now debating whether Chad's trade value maxes out in the first vs. second half of the second round? I mean, that's pretty minor isn't it? I'd trade for a first rounder with no reservations (yeah, why did that surprise you?) and would consider the first half of the 2nd round with some FA in the mix. How's that any different than what you're "now" saying?

And I stand by the position that a second rounder of any stripe is unlikely to be offered, but if it is it'd be in the latter half (and therefore unacceptable to me).

[BengalByTheBay]

How did you correctly peg Chad's trade value last year? What was the firm offer that the Bengals rejected that clearly demonstrated the value?

Chad's agent claimed he had a firm offer of a 1st and a 3rd for Chad last year, but for the 2nd year in a row the Bengals refused to listen.

Child please! You're claiming you were right based on comments by Chad's agent? Come on now, that's less valid than a PFT rumor. But, hey, if that's your source you go girl.

[HairOnFire]

Pleasantries aside, are we really now debating whether Chad's trade value maxes out in the first vs. second half of the second round? I mean, that's pretty minor isn't it?

Absolutely. So if the rest of the board agrees with us we'll quickly have a consensus opinion of Chad's trade value, and then the question will be if the projected trade return would be enough for us. But until that consensus is reached we'll probably have to wade through a few more posts claiming Chad can't be traded under any circumstances due to his incredible importance and utter lack of trade value. Not to mention the occasional post from Hoosier attempting to absolve Chad of any and all blame.

[HairOnFire]

Child please! You're claiming you were right based on comments by Chad's agent?

I assumed you already knew this the moment you fired your pre-emptive shot claiming rumors didn't count.

Or did you really expect me to have hard proof of a trade offer that wasn't acted upon?

[BengalByTheBay]

Child please! You're claiming you were right based on comments by Chad's agent?

I assumed you already knew this the moment you fired your pre-emptive shot claiming rumors didn't count.

Or did you really expect me to have hard proof of a trade offer that wasn't acted upon?

Well, the Washington offer before the 2008 season was widely reported and confirmed by the Redskins. Those facts make it not a rumor. There is always every incentive for an agent to claim receipt of trade offers that are unverified because it makes their client look more valuable. Absent some other source confirming the offer you are left with believing the word of someone whose livelihood is dependent on making something look as valuable as possible -- whether it is or not. And, no, I don't recall any claim by anybody that a 1st and 3rd had been offered for Chad last year. The fact that such a claim may have been made only by Chad's agent could explain why I don't recall it because I wouldn't have believed it then either.

[HairOnFire]

Well, the Washington offer before the 2008 season was widely reported and confirmed by the Redskins. Those facts make it not a rumor.

Using the same standards, after last seasons draft Marvin Lewis confirmed a portion of Rosenwhore's claim by admitting the Bengals were indeed made a trade offer for Chad. To be fair, he never discussed what was offered...only that it wasn't considered seriously and no formal talks between teams took place. But IMHO Lewis's refusal to talk about what the Bengals might have turned down is just as self serving as anything Chad's agent is likely to say...so until Lewis is willing to go on record about the details...I'm left with Rosenwhore's version.