What's Worse in the Football Rankings ??

[ArmyBengal]

Ok, here's what I'm thinking and I thought it would be interesting to discuss. Maybe not, but here it goes.

The Buckeyes (which I am a fan) have gotten a whole rash of sh*t for not being able to "win the big game" over the past few seasons. They have gotten beat by LSU and Florida in the National Championship games, lost to Texas in last years Fiesta Bowl, and have lost BIG regular season games to USC two years in a row.

Now you have a team like USC, who is ALWAYS getting the praise of the media, getting beat by some unranked team over the past handful of years ruining their chances of even getting to a National Championship. They aren't the only school in this situation, but I'm using them as an example. Everyone loves Pete Carroll, (yes I think he's a great coach) and that team has been stacked, especially on defense for years.

So over the past few years since Ohio State has gotten it's label and USC keeps getting upset, which is worse ??

Would you rather have a team that consistently puts themselves in position to win a National Championship or BCS bowl game, only to lose or have a team that consistently is thought to be the best team in the country, only to get beat by some unranked team that takes them out of National Championship contention ??

Don't get me wrong here, when it comes to college football, I have respect for all programs that are solid and yes, I put USC in that category.

My point is, the system is horribly flawed and why I see a playoff system as the most viable option to determine the National Championship.

Heck, it's to a point where Ohio State follows their loss to the number 3 team in the country with a 38-0 victory (yes I know it's Toledo) and they are rewarded with a 2 spot fall in the rankings from #11 to #13. Miami jumps all the way from #20 to #9 and Oklahoma leap frogs the Buckeyes after their win against f*cking Tulsa ?? They lost to f*cking BYU for Christ's sake. I just think the whole system is flawed and the current rankings only solidified what I already knew.

Any thoughts ??

[DesperateDerelict]

Until a fair playoff system is put in place for NCAA FB post season, life (& the polls)will be unfair. For example, if Nebraska scheduled another cupcake instaed of VA Tech,or BYU played Montana State, they'd be ranked ahead of Ohio State.

For a better take on the true rankings, check out Jeff Sagarin's ratings on USA Today. It (just) looks at what has happenned on the field, and disregards conference PR machines.

Link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt09.htm

Top 10

1 Miami-Florida

2 Florida State

3 Cincinnati

4 Boise State

5 LSU

6 Southern California

7 Iowa

8 Georgia Tech

9 Alabama

10 California

Ohio State is #18, Florida #21

[Pidge]

Ok, here's what I'm thinking and I thought it would be interesting to discuss. Maybe not, but here it goes.

The Buckeyes (which I am a fan) have gotten a whole rash of sh*t for not being able to "win the big game" over the past few seasons. They have gotten beat by LSU and Florida in the National Championship games, lost to Texas in last years Fiesta Bowl, and have lost BIG regular season games to USC two years in a row.

Now you have a team like USC, who is ALWAYS getting the praise of the media, getting beat by some unranked team over the past handful of years ruining their chances of even getting to a National Championship. They aren't the only school in this situation, but I'm using them as an example. Everyone loves Pete Carroll, (yes I think he's a great coach) and that team has been stacked, especially on defense for years.

So over the past few years since Ohio State has gotten it's label and USC keeps getting upset, which is worse ??

Would you rather have a team that consistently puts themselves in position to win a National Championship or BCS bowl game, only to lose or have a team that consistently is thought to be the best team in the country, only to get beat by some unranked team that takes them out of National Championship contention ??

Don't get me wrong here, when it comes to college football, I have respect for all programs that are solid and yes, I put USC in that category.

My point is, the system is horribly flawed and why I see a playoff system as the most viable option to determine the National Championship.

Heck, it's to a point where Ohio State follows their loss to the number 3 team in the country with a 38-0 victory (yes I know it's Toledo) and they are rewarded with a 2 spot fall in the rankings from #11 to #13. Miami jumps all the way from #20 to #9 and Oklahoma leap frogs the Buckeyes after their win against f*cking Tulsa ?? They lost to f*cking BYU for Christ's sake. I just think the whole system is flawed and the current rankings only solidified what I already knew.

Any thoughts ??

The whole problem stems from the pre season rankings and continues from their. Everyone starts with the same rating at the start of the yr. 0. Then accumulate points on a fair and open system. Strength of opponent, home/road games etc. Then the top two teams (i.e. those who have accumulated the most points) in the nation, regardless of conference etc, play each other at a neutral venue for the NC.

Sort out the other bowls however, you want. I'm sill slightly pissed about 2003.

I will say, using the system above and not the actual current system, Miami most likely deserves a top 15 ranking. The next two games are huge for us. I really like Harris whatever happens but if we win these two then we can contend next yr. If we run the table this season ( I know, suspend disbelief) we will not have a shot as before the season we weren't fancied and so the teams that everyone would like to see will get the nod even if they lose to Podunk State Technical College.

In fairness, I'm not even that bothered about the NC right now. I want to turn it into the state of Miami again before worrying about other things. There's still a little Coker in the system that needs to be flushed.

[Pidge]

Until a fair playoff system is put in place for NCAA FB post season, life (& the polls)will be unfair. For example, if Nebraska scheduled another cupcake instaed of VA Tech,or BYU played Montana State, they'd be ranked ahead of Ohio State.

For a better take on the true rankings, check out Jeff Sagarin's ratings on USA Today. It (just) looks at what has happenned on the field, and disregards conference PR machines.

Link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt09.htm

Top 10

1 Miami-Florida

2 Florida State

3 Cincinnati

4 Boise State

5 LSU

6 Southern California

7 Iowa

8 Georgia Tech

9 Alabama

10 California

Ohio State is #18, Florida #21

I like that ranking. It's only after two games of course and will most likely be vastly different by the end of the schedule but as of right now, yeah, seems about right. I'd have Cincy above FSU though.

[skyline]

Huh?

Ummmm...

Go Bearcats!!

/moderator spam

[Pidge]

In fact, the dismantling of Rutgers in NJ might be the most impressive performance I've seen in CFB this year. I mean, they handed out some learnin'. Plus they have one of the better QBs in CFB.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Until a fair playoff system is put in place for NCAA FB post season, life (& the polls)will be unfair. For example, if Nebraska scheduled another cupcake instaed of VA Tech,or BYU played Montana State, they'd be ranked ahead of Ohio State.

For a better take on the true rankings, check out Jeff Sagarin's ratings on USA Today. It (just) looks at what has happenned on the field, and disregards conference PR machines.

Link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt09.htm

Top 10

1 Miami-Florida

2 Florida State

3 Cincinnati

4 Boise State

5 LSU

6 Southern California

7 Iowa

8 Georgia Tech

9 Alabama

10 California

Ohio State is #18, Florida #21

I like that ranking. It's only after two games of course and will most likely be vastly different by the end of the schedule but as of right now, yeah, seems about right. I'd have Cincy above FSU though.

Seems way off in many ways, FSU is 1-1 and the #2 team. USC got beat by Washington and they are #6? Iowa barely escaped Northern Iowa at #7?

[ArmyBengal]

So, would you rather cheer for a contender who doesn't win the big game or cheer for a contender that never makes it to the big game after getting beat by an unranked team ?? The reason I ask is, the Buckeyes take a lot of sh*t for this and there seems to be a pass given for something much worse.

[Pidge]

Until a fair playoff system is put in place for NCAA FB post season, life (& the polls)will be unfair. For example, if Nebraska scheduled another cupcake instaed of VA Tech,or BYU played Montana State, they'd be ranked ahead of Ohio State.

For a better take on the true rankings, check out Jeff Sagarin's ratings on USA Today. It (just) looks at what has happenned on the field, and disregards conference PR machines.

Link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt09.htm

Top 10

1 Miami-Florida

2 Florida State

3 Cincinnati

4 Boise State

5 LSU

6 Southern California

7 Iowa

8 Georgia Tech

9 Alabama

10 California

Ohio State is #18, Florida #21

I like that ranking. It's only after two games of course and will most likely be vastly different by the end of the schedule but as of right now, yeah, seems about right. I'd have Cincy above FSU though.

Seems way off in many ways, FSU is 1-1 and the #2 team. USC got beat by Washington and they are #6? Iowa barely escaped Northern Iowa at #7?

Crap, didn't even notice the Condoms at 6. Yeah, strong team on paper but lose yet another game against unranked opponents, hell Washington is improved for sure but they were winless last yr FFS. Ans yeah, thinking about it some more, impressive win (FLA speed helps of course) in Provo aside, top 10 is too high for FSU. OK, they did just lose at home to the #1 team (hehe) but they also just scrapped by JSU. Ugly. Crikey, top 20 is likely too high.

As for Iowa, no idea about them I admit. I'll go with your thoughts on them.

Auburn might be worth a higher placing and my Canes, well, I'll take that page, print it out and frame it because this season won't end up with us at 1. I'm hopeful for some real success next yr though as our secondary will be stronger and Harris is an honest-to-goodness QB already.

[Pidge]

So, would you rather cheer for a contender who doesn't win the big game or cheer for a contender that never makes it to the big game after getting beat by an unranked team ?? The reason I ask is, the Buckeyes take a lot of sh*t for this and there seems to be a pass given for something much worse.

I agree with you really and The Vest has come in for some unnecessary criticism, speaking as someone looking in from the outside. He's built the team to be a genuine force for yrs now.

[SupaBran]

The current system is a joke! I know whenever it changes we'll look back at this system and wonder how in the hell they could have such a s**tty system for so long with College Basketball doing it the right way and crowning a true champion!

To answer the topic question, I am a Gator fan and while I don't like the Big 10 not having a championship game, I at least respect Ohio State, TPryor is a beast! I hate USC, they are a result of media! They get all the hype for no reason what so ever! They should not have been ranked number as a result of the loss to Washington! Ohio State should've won that game vs. USC! They truly do have a big game monkey on their back!

BTW, how in the hell can the defending champs be ranked #21, thats redikulus!!! Go Gators!!!

[ArmyBengal]

For college football, I can respect the programs that are solid year in and year out. I am also more than willing to accept the fact the Buckeyes haven't been able to win a big game in a while. What I don't get is when you have a program just as big as Ohio State (USC) have a problem worse than not being able to win a big game, and not get any flack for it. It's been about the same amount of time that Ohio State has had the "big game" problem and NOTHING.

I'd rather have a team that can at least put themselves in position year in and year out to at least compete in the big game, as opposed to having a team that doesn't get to the big game because they get beat by some unranked team that ruins their season.

I can respect USC, but I think the media lifts them up...

[cincy9275]

For college football, I can respect the programs that are solid year in and year out. I am also more than willing to accept the fact the Buckeyes haven't been able to win a big game in a while. What I don't get is when you have a program just as big as Ohio State (USC) have a problem worse than not being able to win a big game, and not get any flack for it. It's been about the same amount of time that Ohio State has had the "big game" problem and NOTHING.

I'd rather have a team that can at least put themselves in position year in and year out to at least compete in the big game, as opposed to having a team that doesn't get to the big game because they get beat by some unranked team that ruins their season.

I can respect USC, but I think the media lifts them up...

i agree Army. osu is kinda down because of the recent struggles but, they will bounce back. jim's first 4 years he won just about all the big games, including a 14-0 season with a NC. tressel as much as i hate how conservative he is, he's a winning coach and i think he will get back to the NC game in the future. i mean tressel has took this program to 7 consecutive bowls game, 6 bcs bowls, 3 NC games, won 4 straight big ten titles, beat mich 7 times. tressel has had the buckeyes ranked in the top 20 in every season but his 1st. 5 of his 8 years osu has finished in the top 5. then year after year being a team that's always in the mix for a bcs game. that's a pretty good resume for any coach. as buckeye fans we are taking our lumps now but it won't be to long before we start dishing them out again.

[ArmyBengal]

Heck, it's to a point where Ohio State follows their loss to the number 3 team in the country with a 38-0 victory (yes I know it's Toledo) and they are rewarded with a 2 spot fall in the rankings from #11 to #13. Miami jumps all the way from #20 to #9 and Oklahoma leap frogs the Buckeyes after their win against f*cking Tulsa ??

I only bump and quote my original thought here because it happened again.

Ohio State goes into Indiana and solidly beats them in their first road game of the year and they get leap frogged by the Bearcats after they beat Miami of Ohio. Really ?? How does that even factor into the equation ?? Don't get me wrong, I'm not sitting here saying the Buckeyes are the best team in the country, because they aren't, but they have been jumped by two teams that I can't find any reason for it to happen. The way I see it is, the Buckeyes should honestly be ranked at #7 right now.

I will add two side notes though...

#1. If they were going to get jumped in the rankings, at least it was the Bearcats.

#2. There will more top teams to take a loss and the Buckeyes will still have a shot at things.

They have a tough road to go having Wisconsin coming up along with games AT Penn State and Michigan, so if they can win, they will be fine.

[Pidge]

No issue with the Bearcats ranking. Sure they haven't played any of the big names but as far as teams go has Miami been the worst team they've played? They've played solid teams so far. No historic powerhouses maybe but only one cupcake game too. Trouncing, shaming, Rutgers in NJ was impressive and handily beating Oregon St on the road mean that they have my props.

Don't follow OSU that much so I'll leave that discussion for you.

[Kazkal]

They really do need a playoff system for college football,it's just a shame because doubt BCS will ever cave...

Gotta give USC props though people love to rip on the Pac10 but for several years now Ducks & Goldenbears have been good and only tend to drop from losing to USC but are almost always in the top 25.

[ArmyBengal]

Don't get me wrong, I love what the Bearcats have done to this point and have loved a couple of their wins. I'm not overly convinced of the teams the Buckeyes have beaten either and if they continue to win against their schedule (at Penn State and Michigan) I think it will take care of itself. However, my point is, it's hard to understand how a team that has played the same level or lower talent teams leap frogs a team like the Buckeyes. It happened earlier with Oklahoma as well and that is what I'm pointing out. I really think (by the polls way of doing things) the Buckeyes should be ranked 7th.

I'm just using the Buckeyes as a way of showing how much I hate the BCS system and how much I think they are missing the mark on a college playoff system.

That would be truly something to see. A college football Super Bowl !!!

[Pidge]

I'm with you AB. I hate the BCS system. It's a fraud and very rarely representative. The teams are placed on a pedestal before a ball has even been kicked off. The entire thing is unsatisfactory to begin with.

There are 16 conferences, taking the ACC Atlantic/Coastal and SEC East/West, Mid America and CUSA splits into account etc. Nice number for a playoff system right there anyway. Or you could just take the champs of the SEC, ACC etc after the champ game has been played and you get 12 teams. Another nice number for a playoff with a bye for the top 4 teams. The other eight play a wildcard game and then face the top 4 etc. Pretty similar to the NFL setup.

You could also get around one team playing a bunch of cupcakes etc by only taking into account a set number of games against common opponents played out of conference to determine rankings for the playoffs. No doubt it would be ever so slightly more complicated than I expect it would be but it's doable.

Importantly, everyone starts out with a ranking of 0 at the start of the yr.

[ArmyBengal]

I'd like to see every conference have a conference championship and force the independent teams to go into a conference close to them.

If my numbers are correct, that would be 11 conference champions and if they so desired, throw a wild card type of team in there to make 12.

Run the seeding system from there and start the playoffs.

I have heard college officials say how much tradition would be lost be removing the bowls, but here's my thought.

#1. You could still use the bowl system once you get down to the last few games in the playoff scenario.

#2. No one cares about the www.wecleantoilets.com bowl.

#3. I think the amount of revenue produced by doing things in a playoff system would be more than most realize.

Anyway, they could go to a simple 8 game season with 2 teams playing for the Conference title and then maybe 3 more games at most if they go to the National Championship game. 12 games at most for any one team, so they won't be out there for 16 games at the college level.

Those are just some random thoughts and I'm sure there's more than one way, but you get my point...

[Pidge]

I hear you and good point about the Independents (read ND). They would have a really unfair advantage when it came to recruiting if they were virtual shoe-ins to the playoffs yr in yr out.

Lots of ways to do it and it really would mean that the best team on the field would win the championship. Let's see how the Penn States of this world fare in a playoff system. Why the hell they were even ranked at any point this yr I don't know. #5 at one point. What a load of horses**t.

[cincy9275]

Don't get me wrong, I love what the Bearcats have done to this point and have loved a couple of their wins. I'm not overly convinced of the teams the Buckeyes have beaten either and if they continue to win against their schedule (at Penn State and Michigan) I think it will take care of itself. However, my point is, it's hard to understand how a team that has played the same level or lower talent teams leap frogs a team like the Buckeyes. It happened earlier with Oklahoma as well and that is what I'm pointing out. I really think (by the polls way of doing things) the Buckeyes should be ranked 7th.

I'm just using the Buckeyes as a way of showing how much I hate the BCS system and how much I think they are missing the mark on a college playoff system.

That would be truly something to see. A college football Super Bowl !!!

Army as long as people have the say so of who ranked where. there will never be a fair system. example say Penn st and Iowa keep rolling and climb up the rankings. then say OSU wins both games and beat mich, to finish with 1 loss and 3 straight wins against ranked team and maybe 2 top 10 teams. now Boise st and Cincy finishes undefeated, while Florida loses 1 game. do you think Cincy or Boise plays in the NC game? as the system is now i don't. the game would probably be OSU Florida. fair or not teams like Boise Cincinnati deserve a shot at the title. under the current system they are not likely to get one. the almighty jackasses who run D-1 football are just to damn stupid to realize how big a playoff system would be and how much cash it would make. they say well it would hurt the bowl games. BS you could use the same venues as they do now.

[ArmyBengal]

Don't get me wrong, I love what the Bearcats have done to this point and have loved a couple of their wins. I'm not overly convinced of the teams the Buckeyes have beaten either and if they continue to win against their schedule (at Penn State and Michigan) I think it will take care of itself. However, my point is, it's hard to understand how a team that has played the same level or lower talent teams leap frogs a team like the Buckeyes. It happened earlier with Oklahoma as well and that is what I'm pointing out. I really think (by the polls way of doing things) the Buckeyes should be ranked 7th.

I'm just using the Buckeyes as a way of showing how much I hate the BCS system and how much I think they are missing the mark on a college playoff system.

That would be truly something to see. A college football Super Bowl !!!

Army as long as people have the say so of who ranked where. there will never be a fair system. example say Penn st and Iowa keep rolling and climb up the rankings. then say OSU wins both games and beat mich, to finish with 1 loss and 3 straight wins against ranked team and maybe 2 top 10 teams. now Boise st and Cincy finishes undefeated, while Florida loses 1 game. do you think Cincy or Boise plays in the NC game? as the system is now i don't. the game would probably be OSU Florida. fair or not teams like Boise Cincinnati deserve a shot at the title. under the current system they are not likely to get one. the almighty jackasses who run D-1 football are just to damn stupid to realize how big a playoff system would be and how much cash it would make. they say well it would hurt the bowl games. BS you could use the same venues as they do now.

Oh I agree with everything you are saying here. I'm merely using Ohio State as a way of showing the BS involved with the current system. I think there are a handful of teams that get screwed year in and year out due to the current BCS steaming mound of sh*t we are expected to swallow. It's a real shame for some of those programs and the players at those programs...

[redsbengalsbucks]

I'm a big OSU fan, but as of right now they dont deserve to be in the NC talk even if they win out. They lost to a USC team that is way over-rated and in a PAC 10 division that only has a couple of teams that know how to play defence.

I dont understand all the pundits complaining about Cinci and Boise St. not playing tough schedules, both have played more big name schools than Florida has at this point.

If the NC was right now I would be in favor of a Cinci vs Boise St. matchup, based on how they have played and who the other undefeateds have.

[Pidge]

If they keep on keeping on as they have so far, Cincy and Auburn would be more than worthy of getting a shot at the title game. It won't happen though. It'll be Florida vs. someone else.

[ArmyBengal]

I think Florida may take a loss this weekend without Tebow in there and to tell you the truth, I honestly believe Texas will not only be in the NC game, I think they will win it fairly easily. That team really is stacked. Maybe they haven't played much to this point, but it's coming. I also don't believe Ohio State should be considered in that conversation, only the fact I think they are getting screwed in the polls by the people that don't want to see them in a big game this year. The Bearcats were there last year, so that shouldn't surprise anyone...