Keith Rivers

[Clackwoods]

I'm a Buckeye fan, but what I don't understand in fans that follow college ball is that they seem to discredit other programs on the sole basis of their dislike for them as opposed to what their players bring to the field. How can a player from a team be overhyped because of their teams dominance on the field ?? Wouldn't it be safe to say that dominance came from what the players brought to the field ?? Once again, I don't get that.

I think it's giving credit where credit is due. USC has a hell of a program there and the players coming out seem to do well in the NFL. My dislike for them as a team when they play the Buckeyes is beside the point. I relate it to the Steelers. I hate those motherf*ckers with every ounce of my being, but that is a winning organization who always fields a VERY competitive team that I wish the Bengals would emulate more of.

Keith Rivers comes from a school I root against weekly, but love the fact that he came from that program now that he plays for us...

It's not a discredit to the USC program. Personally, I even enjoy watching them play and recognize their recent collective success as being as close to it gets to a Dynasty program in college football.

My opinion is based on the fact that USC Trojans are always thought to be instant NFL Superstars based on their collegiate resumes. I think of Matt Leinart, Reggie Bush (who was compared to Gale Sayers and Barry Sanders?), Winston Justice, Sedrick Ellis, any recent USC WR you can name and countless others who have underperformed as NFL players. I strongly disagree that their players do well as NFL players. My thought is they usually come nowhere close to being the types of players in the league that they were in college.

I compare the Rey hype to the Mike Williams hype of a few years back, when many though he would've been the #1 overall pick in the draft, had he been able to come out after his Freshman season. He didn't even live out his first and only contract in the NFL and is now out of the league entirely. On a related and somewhat ironic note, Mel Kiper just reported on ESPN News that he expects the New Orleans Saints to draft Beanie Wells, as their most glaring need is at RB. Who knows what will happen, but if their brass agrees with the notion that they need a RB, it might say something to how they feel about Bush as a full-time RB in their offense.

BUSH isn't a every down back, but that is OK. He is one of the top 3 RB's in the league as a reciever out of the backfield which just so happens to fit perfectly in NO. With a Duece type player like Beenie he can return to his role that he is special at. The guy is an outstanding Punt returner and is pretty much an automatic first down if he gets the ball in space. You need to look at the glass half full as opposed to half empty.

On a side note, Wells would be my pick if I was choosing for NO in the mock....It just makes sense because they can get a DB in round 2

[HAPPYJAQ]

I'm a Buckeye fan, but what I don't understand in fans that follow college ball is that they seem to discredit other programs on the sole basis of their dislike for them as opposed to what their players bring to the field. How can a player from a team be overhyped because of their teams dominance on the field ?? Wouldn't it be safe to say that dominance came from what the players brought to the field ?? Once again, I don't get that.

I think it's giving credit where credit is due. USC has a hell of a program there and the players coming out seem to do well in the NFL. My dislike for them as a team when they play the Buckeyes is beside the point. I relate it to the Steelers. I hate those motherf*ckers with every ounce of my being, but that is a winning organization who always fields a VERY competitive team that I wish the Bengals would emulate more of.

Keith Rivers comes from a school I root against weekly, but love the fact that he came from that program now that he plays for us...

It's not a discredit to the USC program. Personally, I even enjoy watching them play and recognize their recent collective success as being as close to it gets to a Dynasty program in college football.

My opinion is based on the fact that USC Trojans are always thought to be instant NFL Superstars based on their collegiate resumes. I think of Matt Leinart, Reggie Bush (who was compared to Gale Sayers and Barry Sanders?), Winston Justice, Sedrick Ellis, any recent USC WR you can name and countless others who have underperformed as NFL players. I strongly disagree that their players do well as NFL players. My thought is they usually come nowhere close to being the types of players in the league that they were in college.

I compare the Rey hype to the Mike Williams hype of a few years back, when many though he would've been the #1 overall pick in the draft, had he been able to come out after his Freshman season. He didn't even live out his first and only contract in the NFL and is now out of the league entirely. On a related and somewhat ironic note, Mel Kiper just reported on ESPN News that he expects the New Orleans Saints to draft Beanie Wells, as their most glaring need is at RB. Who knows what will happen, but if their brass agrees with the notion that they need a RB, it might say something to how they feel about Bush as a full-time RB in their offense.

BUSH isn't a every down back, but that is OK. He is one of the top 3 RB's in the league as a reciever out of the backfield which just so happens to fit perfectly in NO. With a Duece type player like Beenie he can return to his role that he is special at. The guy is an outstanding Punt returner and is pretty much an automatic first down if he gets the ball in space. You need to look at the glass half full as opposed to half empty.

On a side note, Wells would be my pick if I was choosing for NO in the mock....It just makes sense because they can get a DB in round 2

I'm looking at it as a guy who was picked as the #2 overall pick in the draft the year he came out and a player that some called one of the best college RBs ever and a "can't miss" HOF caliber running back. I will concede the fact that he's an excellent receiver and return guy, but I'd be very upset if the Bengals drafted a guy like Reggie Bush #2 overall and he's limited to being an exceptional 3rd down back and Special Teamer. For me, it's an equal to drafting Justin Smith #4 overall and a lot of us wanted him out of here after his 2nd season. You want guys drafted that high to be perennial Pro Bowlers, for what their contract values are as Top 5 picks. People bashed the hell out of Charlie Casserly for passing on Bush for Mario Williams, and it turns out he was right in his evaluation of both.

The even more significant consideration is if the Saints draft Beanie Wells, Reggie Bush then becomes the 3rd RB on the depth chart as one of the teams two highest paid players...unless he's moved to receiver, which just might end up being his best position in the NFL.

[derekshank]

BUSH isn't a every down back, but that is OK. He is one of the top 3 RB's in the league as a reciever out of the backfield which just so happens to fit perfectly in NO. With a Duece type player like Beenie he can return to his role that he is special at. The guy is an outstanding Punt returner and is pretty much an automatic first down if he gets the ball in space. You need to look at the glass half full as opposed to half empty.

Bush is a lot like Justin Smith. Good player who didn't warrant his draft position. Bush's problem is that he's not a true RB. He's a utility player. Returns punts as good as almost anyone, and is as great a weapon catching the ball out of the backfield as anyone in the NFL. And it's hard to judge his value. Defenses have to focus on him because of his big play ability, and this allows lesser players to get open.

He'll always be looked at as a bit of a bust, because he was taken at #2 overall. But he is a quality NFL player. Just not in the traditional cut of a RB taken in the top 5.

[blueridge]

I'll be depressed if we pass on Rey Rey if he's there at #6.. Especially knowing how close Rivers and him are. They would be a GREAT tandem here on the Bengals D... I've had my eye on this guy for 3 years now.

I'm with you. Maualuga is a beast and a playmaker. If Eugene Monroe is gone, I wouldn't complain if the Bengals drafted him in the 1st.

[kentjett]

Bush is at his best when used like he was at USC. When he is used correctly, he is one of the most dangerous weapons in the league. The Saints know this and the try to use him in that way most of the time. He is not a player that will carry the ball 30 times and wear down a defense. He never was and never will be. The Saints tried to do that briefly last year because they were forced to because of injuries. Bush is far from a bust and he is worthy of his draft position. Completely different situation than Justin Smith. Justin has underachieved throughout his career.

[derekshank]

Justin has underachieved throughout his career.

Nope. Smith was in the top 5 in the league in tackles at the DE position year after year.

Did he rack up sack stats? Nope. Was that his fault? It was only his fault inasmuch as it was his gameplan to be in on virtually every play game after game and to not overpursue in pass-rushing to protect against the running game.

All of that to say... Smith was very solid DE for years. He was not used as a sack specialist... but as a workhorse. You can't fault the player if the coaches are misusing him. (By the way... I don't believe he was misused. I feel he was an exceptional every down DE... but the Bengals needed a true pass rusher on the other side).

[Clackwoods]

I'm a Buckeye fan, but what I don't understand in fans that follow college ball is that they seem to discredit other programs on the sole basis of their dislike for them as opposed to what their players bring to the field. How can a player from a team be overhyped because of their teams dominance on the field ?? Wouldn't it be safe to say that dominance came from what the players brought to the field ?? Once again, I don't get that.

I think it's giving credit where credit is due. USC has a hell of a program there and the players coming out seem to do well in the NFL. My dislike for them as a team when they play the Buckeyes is beside the point. I relate it to the Steelers. I hate those motherf*ckers with every ounce of my being, but that is a winning organization who always fields a VERY competitive team that I wish the Bengals would emulate more of.

Keith Rivers comes from a school I root against weekly, but love the fact that he came from that program now that he plays for us...

It's not a discredit to the USC program. Personally, I even enjoy watching them play and recognize their recent collective success as being as close to it gets to a Dynasty program in college football.

My opinion is based on the fact that USC Trojans are always thought to be instant NFL Superstars based on their collegiate resumes. I think of Matt Leinart, Reggie Bush (who was compared to Gale Sayers and Barry Sanders?), Winston Justice, Sedrick Ellis, any recent USC WR you can name and countless others who have underperformed as NFL players. I strongly disagree that their players do well as NFL players. My thought is they usually come nowhere close to being the types of players in the league that they were in college.

I compare the Rey hype to the Mike Williams hype of a few years back, when many though he would've been the #1 overall pick in the draft, had he been able to come out after his Freshman season. He didn't even live out his first and only contract in the NFL and is now out of the league entirely. On a related and somewhat ironic note, Mel Kiper just reported on ESPN News that he expects the New Orleans Saints to draft Beanie Wells, as their most glaring need is at RB. Who knows what will happen, but if their brass agrees with the notion that they need a RB, it might say something to how they feel about Bush as a full-time RB in their offense.

BUSH isn't a every down back, but that is OK. He is one of the top 3 RB's in the league as a reciever out of the backfield which just so happens to fit perfectly in NO. With a Duece type player like Beenie he can return to his role that he is special at. The guy is an outstanding Punt returner and is pretty much an automatic first down if he gets the ball in space. You need to look at the glass half full as opposed to half empty.

On a side note, Wells would be my pick if I was choosing for NO in the mock....It just makes sense because they can get a DB in round 2

I'm looking at it as a guy who was picked as the #2 overall pick in the draft the year he came out and a player that some called one of the best college RBs ever and a "can't miss" HOF caliber running back. I will concede the fact that he's an excellent receiver and return guy, but I'd be very upset if the Bengals drafted a guy like Reggie Bush #2 overall and he's limited to being an exceptional 3rd down back and Special Teamer. For me, it's an equal to drafting Justin Smith #4 overall and a lot of us wanted him out of here after his 2nd season. You want guys drafted that high to be perennial Pro Bowlers, for what their contract values are as Top 5 picks. People bashed the hell out of Charlie Casserly for passing on Bush for Mario Williams, and it turns out he was right in his evaluation of both.

The even more significant consideration is if the Saints draft Beanie Wells, Reggie Bush then becomes the 3rd RB on the depth chart as one of the teams two highest paid players...unless he's moved to receiver, which just might end up being his best position in the NFL.

Your smoking something if you think Reggie would be the number 3 back behind Thomas if they brought in Wells. Wells would take over the role of a healthy Deuce from two seasons ago and Reggie would be the backup/change of pace/3rd down and longer than 4 back. The only reason Pierre is a starter is because he is more of a workhorse back than Reggie, but when they bring in someone else to fill his role, he will be looking at 3rd.

I do agree with you that 2nd overall is to high for him based off his running back skills, but you have to take everything else into account. He is a very very marketable player and when they chose him they needed that. The offense they employee fully utilizes him which is why when he did have that everydown back he had almost 100 catches his rookie year and until the 8th or 9th week of the season (I think Duece may have been hurt) he was leading the league in receptions. I watched this guy take over a Monday night game last year when he damn near returned 3 straight punts for TD's. He brought back two of them and tripped over his legs on the other.

Out of the top ten picks that year that were picked after him the only other player I would want on my team that even comes close to his value is Ferguson or maybe Dhonte Whitner, but a safety sure as hell won't go that high!

[HAPPYJAQ]

I'm a Buckeye fan, but what I don't understand in fans that follow college ball is that they seem to discredit other programs on the sole basis of their dislike for them as opposed to what their players bring to the field. How can a player from a team be overhyped because of their teams dominance on the field ?? Wouldn't it be safe to say that dominance came from what the players brought to the field ?? Once again, I don't get that.

I think it's giving credit where credit is due. USC has a hell of a program there and the players coming out seem to do well in the NFL. My dislike for them as a team when they play the Buckeyes is beside the point. I relate it to the Steelers. I hate those motherf*ckers with every ounce of my being, but that is a winning organization who always fields a VERY competitive team that I wish the Bengals would emulate more of.

Keith Rivers comes from a school I root against weekly, but love the fact that he came from that program now that he plays for us...

It's not a discredit to the USC program. Personally, I even enjoy watching them play and recognize their recent collective success as being as close to it gets to a Dynasty program in college football.

My opinion is based on the fact that USC Trojans are always thought to be instant NFL Superstars based on their collegiate resumes. I think of Matt Leinart, Reggie Bush (who was compared to Gale Sayers and Barry Sanders?), Winston Justice, Sedrick Ellis, any recent USC WR you can name and countless others who have underperformed as NFL players. I strongly disagree that their players do well as NFL players. My thought is they usually come nowhere close to being the types of players in the league that they were in college.

I compare the Rey hype to the Mike Williams hype of a few years back, when many though he would've been the #1 overall pick in the draft, had he been able to come out after his Freshman season. He didn't even live out his first and only contract in the NFL and is now out of the league entirely. On a related and somewhat ironic note, Mel Kiper just reported on ESPN News that he expects the New Orleans Saints to draft Beanie Wells, as their most glaring need is at RB. Who knows what will happen, but if their brass agrees with the notion that they need a RB, it might say something to how they feel about Bush as a full-time RB in their offense.

BUSH isn't a every down back, but that is OK. He is one of the top 3 RB's in the league as a reciever out of the backfield which just so happens to fit perfectly in NO. With a Duece type player like Beenie he can return to his role that he is special at. The guy is an outstanding Punt returner and is pretty much an automatic first down if he gets the ball in space. You need to look at the glass half full as opposed to half empty.

On a side note, Wells would be my pick if I was choosing for NO in the mock....It just makes sense because they can get a DB in round 2

I'm looking at it as a guy who was picked as the #2 overall pick in the draft the year he came out and a player that some called one of the best college RBs ever and a "can't miss" HOF caliber running back. I will concede the fact that he's an excellent receiver and return guy, but I'd be very upset if the Bengals drafted a guy like Reggie Bush #2 overall and he's limited to being an exceptional 3rd down back and Special Teamer. For me, it's an equal to drafting Justin Smith #4 overall and a lot of us wanted him out of here after his 2nd season. You want guys drafted that high to be perennial Pro Bowlers, for what their contract values are as Top 5 picks. People bashed the hell out of Charlie Casserly for passing on Bush for Mario Williams, and it turns out he was right in his evaluation of both.

The even more significant consideration is if the Saints draft Beanie Wells, Reggie Bush then becomes the 3rd RB on the depth chart as one of the teams two highest paid players...unless he's moved to receiver, which just might end up being his best position in the NFL.

Your smoking something if you think Reggie would be the number 3 back behind Thomas if they brought in Wells. Wells would take over the role of a healthy Deuce from two seasons ago and Reggie would be the backup/change of pace/3rd down and longer than 4 back. The only reason Pierre is a starter is because he is more of a workhorse back than Reggie, but when they bring in someone else to fill his role, he will be looking at 3rd.

I do agree with you that 2nd overall is to high for him based off his running back skills, but you have to take everything else into account. He is a very very marketable player and when they chose him they needed that. The offense they employee fully utilizes him which is why when he did have that everydown back he had almost 100 catches his rookie year and until the 8th or 9th week of the season (I think Duece may have been hurt) he was leading the league in receptions. I watched this guy take over a Monday night game last year when he damn near returned 3 straight punts for TD's. He brought back two of them and tripped over his legs on the other.

Out of the top ten picks that year that were picked after him the only other player I would want on my team that even comes close to his value is Ferguson or maybe Dhonte Whitner, but a safety sure as hell won't go that high!

Yes, I must be high as hell...Ricky Williams style.

My reasoning? Reggie Bush was 3rd in carries and yards per carry ON HIS OWN TEAM, behind an undrafted free agent RB and a 30-something "old washed up dude" with two bad knees. I don't see how his carry total will increase with the ADDITION of a 1st round RB and Pierre Thomas has proven himself to be the better RB at actually running the football, of the two.

I get the marketability factors and I already have stated that he is an excellent PR, perhaps even one of the league's best. My question is, would you be satisfied if your #2 overall pick was only able to account for 844 total yards from scrimmage in his 3rd season as a pro, after what he did in college? You don't pay a guy the kind of money that goes to a Top 5 pick if the best part of his game is returning punts, no matter how explosive he is in that area. For that matter, he didn't even make the Pro Bowl last year as a return guy after having his best season there...a rookie undrafted free agent beat him out (again)!

All this just further emphasizes my original point about USC guys. Reggie Bush should be a perennial Pro Bowler and rushing yardage leader by now, based on what he did at USC and where he was picked in the draft. I like Reggie Bush and think he's a solid pro, but it'll be interesting to see if he'll ever be declared a bust, based on what he's done in the NFL.

[Clackwoods]

I'm a Buckeye fan, but what I don't understand in fans that follow college ball is that they seem to discredit other programs on the sole basis of their dislike for them as opposed to what their players bring to the field. How can a player from a team be overhyped because of their teams dominance on the field ?? Wouldn't it be safe to say that dominance came from what the players brought to the field ?? Once again, I don't get that.

I think it's giving credit where credit is due. USC has a hell of a program there and the players coming out seem to do well in the NFL. My dislike for them as a team when they play the Buckeyes is beside the point. I relate it to the Steelers. I hate those motherf*ckers with every ounce of my being, but that is a winning organization who always fields a VERY competitive team that I wish the Bengals would emulate more of.

Keith Rivers comes from a school I root against weekly, but love the fact that he came from that program now that he plays for us...

It's not a discredit to the USC program. Personally, I even enjoy watching them play and recognize their recent collective success as being as close to it gets to a Dynasty program in college football.

My opinion is based on the fact that USC Trojans are always thought to be instant NFL Superstars based on their collegiate resumes. I think of Matt Leinart, Reggie Bush (who was compared to Gale Sayers and Barry Sanders?), Winston Justice, Sedrick Ellis, any recent USC WR you can name and countless others who have underperformed as NFL players. I strongly disagree that their players do well as NFL players. My thought is they usually come nowhere close to being the types of players in the league that they were in college.

I compare the Rey hype to the Mike Williams hype of a few years back, when many though he would've been the #1 overall pick in the draft, had he been able to come out after his Freshman season. He didn't even live out his first and only contract in the NFL and is now out of the league entirely. On a related and somewhat ironic note, Mel Kiper just reported on ESPN News that he expects the New Orleans Saints to draft Beanie Wells, as their most glaring need is at RB. Who knows what will happen, but if their brass agrees with the notion that they need a RB, it might say something to how they feel about Bush as a full-time RB in their offense.

BUSH isn't a every down back, but that is OK. He is one of the top 3 RB's in the league as a reciever out of the backfield which just so happens to fit perfectly in NO. With a Duece type player like Beenie he can return to his role that he is special at. The guy is an outstanding Punt returner and is pretty much an automatic first down if he gets the ball in space. You need to look at the glass half full as opposed to half empty.

On a side note, Wells would be my pick if I was choosing for NO in the mock....It just makes sense because they can get a DB in round 2

I'm looking at it as a guy who was picked as the #2 overall pick in the draft the year he came out and a player that some called one of the best college RBs ever and a "can't miss" HOF caliber running back. I will concede the fact that he's an excellent receiver and return guy, but I'd be very upset if the Bengals drafted a guy like Reggie Bush #2 overall and he's limited to being an exceptional 3rd down back and Special Teamer. For me, it's an equal to drafting Justin Smith #4 overall and a lot of us wanted him out of here after his 2nd season. You want guys drafted that high to be perennial Pro Bowlers, for what their contract values are as Top 5 picks. People bashed the hell out of Charlie Casserly for passing on Bush for Mario Williams, and it turns out he was right in his evaluation of both.

The even more significant consideration is if the Saints draft Beanie Wells, Reggie Bush then becomes the 3rd RB on the depth chart as one of the teams two highest paid players...unless he's moved to receiver, which just might end up being his best position in the NFL.

Your smoking something if you think Reggie would be the number 3 back behind Thomas if they brought in Wells. Wells would take over the role of a healthy Deuce from two seasons ago and Reggie would be the backup/change of pace/3rd down and longer than 4 back. The only reason Pierre is a starter is because he is more of a workhorse back than Reggie, but when they bring in someone else to fill his role, he will be looking at 3rd.

I do agree with you that 2nd overall is to high for him based off his running back skills, but you have to take everything else into account. He is a very very marketable player and when they chose him they needed that. The offense they employee fully utilizes him which is why when he did have that everydown back he had almost 100 catches his rookie year and until the 8th or 9th week of the season (I think Duece may have been hurt) he was leading the league in receptions. I watched this guy take over a Monday night game last year when he damn near returned 3 straight punts for TD's. He brought back two of them and tripped over his legs on the other.

Out of the top ten picks that year that were picked after him the only other player I would want on my team that even comes close to his value is Ferguson or maybe Dhonte Whitner, but a safety sure as hell won't go that high!

Yes, I must be high as hell...Ricky Williams style.

My reasoning? Reggie Bush was 3rd in carries and yards per carry ON HIS OWN TEAM, behind an undrafted free agent RB and a 30-something "old washed up dude" with two bad knees. I don't see how his carry total will increase with the ADDITION of a 1st round RB and Pierre Thomas has proven himself to be the better RB at actually running the football, of the two.

I get the marketability factors and I already have stated that he is an excellent PR, perhaps even one of the league's best. My question is, would you be satisfied if your #2 overall pick was only able to account for 844 total yards from scrimmage in his 3rd season as a pro, after what he did in college? You don't pay a guy the kind of money that goes to a Top 5 pick if the best part of his game is returning punts, no matter how explosive he is in that area. For that matter, he didn't even make the Pro Bowl last year as a return guy after having his best season there...a rookie undrafted free agent beat him out (again)!

All this just further emphasizes my original point about USC guys. Reggie Bush should be a perennial Pro Bowler and rushing yardage leader by now, based on what he did at USC and where he was picked in the draft. I like Reggie Bush and think he's a solid pro, but it'll be interesting to see if he'll ever be declared a bust, based on what he's done in the NFL.

If he is declared a bust it will be because of his draft position, not his ability. The reason i say Pierre would be number 3 is because Reggie is a complementary back and he would be the perfect number 2 compliment to Beenie!