derekshank Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Still, the Bengals are obviously interested to some degree. Damn it all to the bowels of bloody hell. Very depressing to see really. We had a decentish defense last yr. By no means a finished article and a few pieces away from being a really solid unit but RW? Are you serial? What is the point at even looking at a player like that? It's not like he's just coming off an injury and it's a bit of a gamble. The guy has been nothing but a liability for a couple of seasons now and I like Zimmer but he must have an ego the size of Australasia if he thinks he can mould him into the RW of old, especially on a young defense still trying to find it feet. What could RW teach the younger guys anyway, how to attempt to cripple players due to lacking the most fundamental skill a football player, never mind a SS, should have? Veteran leadership would be nice but just coz the guy is a veteran doesn't make him a leader. In fact, this veteran has to rebuild his reputation and start from scratch again. What an inspiring leader he'd be to these young, rich players.He'd be overpriced even if he played for free due to the stench of failure he'd bring to the squad.Yeah... but He went to the Pro-Bowl 5 straight seasons under Zimmer. Have those days passed him by? It's certainly a possibility, but if Williams was simply very good at playing his role in the Zimmer scheme, it could be a plus. If the Bengals decide to sign him, I think it is because they believe he can improve the team. If that's the case, I'm fine with it. You're right that Williams hasn't been a good player that last couple of years... but I do find it interesting that his downward spiral came when Zimmer left. Coincidence? We'll see.
HairOnFire Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 My flabber is gasted. I should be so lucky. How weird is this? The Bengals announce a 5-time Pro Bowl player is coming for a visit and in response....I've got nothing. In fact, I can't even manage the energy to scratch my head. As for the Madden rant, the last time I bothered playing Madden my fake Bengals managed an 11-5 record and a playoff berth, all due to the brilliant single-pronged offensive strike package I built around Larry Kinnebrew.
Pidge Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Still, the Bengals are obviously interested to some degree. Damn it all to the bowels of bloody hell. Very depressing to see really. We had a decentish defense last yr. By no means a finished article and a few pieces away from being a really solid unit but RW? Are you serial? What is the point at even looking at a player like that? It's not like he's just coming off an injury and it's a bit of a gamble. The guy has been nothing but a liability for a couple of seasons now and I like Zimmer but he must have an ego the size of Australasia if he thinks he can mould him into the RW of old, especially on a young defense still trying to find it feet. What could RW teach the younger guys anyway, how to attempt to cripple players due to lacking the most fundamental skill a football player, never mind a SS, should have? Veteran leadership would be nice but just coz the guy is a veteran doesn't make him a leader. In fact, this veteran has to rebuild his reputation and start from scratch again. What an inspiring leader he'd be to these young, rich players.He'd be overpriced even if he played for free due to the stench of failure he'd bring to the squad.Yeah... but He went to the Pro-Bowl 5 straight seasons under Zimmer. Have those days passed him by? It's certainly a possibility, but if Williams was simply very good at playing his role in the Zimmer scheme, it could be a plus. If the Bengals decide to sign him, I think it is because they believe he can improve the team. If that's the case, I'm fine with it. You're right that Williams hasn't been a good player that last couple of years... but I do find it interesting that his downward spiral came when Zimmer left. Coincidence? We'll see.Indeedy. He performed in the past. Maybe Zimmer did have a big impact on him and if he does sign then I hope he can rekindle the fire under RW. I'm not so sure. I mean, yeah, a player can experience a drop off or loss of form. RW has utterly crumbled though. I'm just a little pist off at the thought of anything interrupting further progress of the younger guys in the secondary. But I am not paid a handsome wage by the Bengals (or anyone ***damnit) to make football decisions so naturally will defer to Zimmer if he decides to sign him andf hope it works out.
HoTbOy Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 I'm don't want RWilliams to slow to cover anyone, and tired of trying people out of position, didn't work with RWilson and didn't work with DPollack...If they wanted a SS they should've made a play for BDawkins who signed with the Broncos...
Whur CHad At? Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Sign him. He is a five time pro bowler and excelled with Zimmer. Why not take him. He brings leadership and expierence.
Whur CHad At? Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 His workout with us went really well. Zimmer said he looked big and strong and Lewis said he'd be a good assest to have. He has been here for two days
CJBestInAFC Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Fine. Don't sign him then. Why are you treating this as if the Bengals must sign him? If the Bengals decide to sign him, it's because they think he can contribute at his natural position. If he can't contribute, then they won't sign him. It's pretty much that simple. Jeanty is a much better SSLB than Williams would be as a WSLB. And Rivers is a far better WSLB than he would be as a SSLB. Bringing in an 8 year veteran and asking him to learn a new position when he's near 30 smacks of desperation. The kind that would likely force the defense to take a step backwards. So... bad idea. Sorry.I never said the Bengals must sign him. I was only talking about if the Bengals did sign him I would like to see him at Lb more than I would at S. Maybe play a hybrid role where he can switch between S and lb. I think he is a better player than most give him credit for on this board. How bad could he be? 5 time probowler not over 30, I think he will not make the defense worse if he is on it, and if Marvin liked what he witnessed at his work out I guess you are going to have to go on that. Maybe he was not used correctly when the Cowboys switched to a 3-4.
kentjett Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Roy is a freak athlete that can put fear into WR's going across the middle. He struggled in some of dallas's formations but it would be killer to have Crocker and Williams in our secondary together. I like Ndukwe but he is nowhere close to Williams league and White has been iffy and is coming off an injury. Don't get mad if Mike actually spends the money instead of pocketing it like last year. You can never have too much depth. We desperately need veteran leadership on our D and Roy can be exactly that.
Spor_tees Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Roy is a freak athlete that can put fear into WR's going across the middle. He struggled in some of dallas's formations but it would be killer to have Crocker and Williams in our secondary together. I like Ndukwe but he is nowhere close to Williams league and White has been iffy and is coming off an injury. Don't get mad if Mike actually spends the money instead of pocketing it like last year. You can never have too much depth. We desperately need veteran leadership on our D and Roy can be exactly that.Not sure how it would work out, but seeing as how Ndukwe was given the task of wearing the mic'd helmet on defense I don't see him losing his job. I really do like the idea of having 3 really good safeties instead of just 2 and a bunch of special teamers. There is nothing wrong with depth, especially how the injury bug hits the Bengals every year.
UF_Gators_15 Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Marvin Lewis impressed Roy Williams -- two signings expected before the NFL Draft by Kirkendall on Mar 19, 2009 4:48 PM EDT in Analysis 0 comments I know the opinion on the site is split, but I'm in favor of bringing Roy Williams in for a look. I know his best days are behind him, that coverage has been an issue. As are coverage issues with the other safeties on the team -- hence Mike Zimmer's call for a cornerback that can play cover safety, which we think is close to the description that we're hearing of Malcolm Jenkins. Furthermore, there's little reason to expect that Williams would come into Cincinnati and start based on any reputation. His cost is a weighty factor. But our Bengals are surely to keep that down -- because that's what they do, they keep cost down. Tim MacMahon believes that Cincinnati would actually get Williams' career back on track. He's clearly of a position with limited, if any, expectations. Keep it that way, have a look. If he is what we've heard of him, then don't worry about it. No harm, no foul. My point is this. The Bengals are notorious for not even taking a look at players, some of whom are severely over-priced, and cheapness becomes an asset rather than a liability. However, the Bengals should at least take looks. With Chinedum Ndukwe, Marvin White, Chris Crocker and Corey Lynch, the Bengals could use an experienced veteran who could play a backup/special teams role. Will Williams want something like that? Unlikely. Still, it's always worth the look. However, there is an impression. Lewis also said that the Bengals will "probably," sign two players before the April 25-26 NFL Draft that will compete for starting jobs. Five-time Pro Bowl safety Roy Williams would obviously do more than that as the Bengals planned to talk to his agent after what defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer called a good workout at Paul Brown Stadium Thursday morning."He looked athletic and strong," Zimmer said. Lewis spent much of the past two days with Williams and came away impressed. "He's a great football player and he's a wonderful guy," Lewis said. "I'm glad we got to know him and he got to know us. He'd be a good asset for us. You can never have too many players and this guy has been an outstanding players. He makes plays that win games."I for one can't wait until we sign him, I've always thought he was good, and like him even more after all his horse collaring, wouldn't u love to see him horse-collar Hines Ward and break his leg in 7 places. I heard him on Jim Rome once and that's when I became a fan of his, he's a great guy who's very intelligent. P.S. He played his best years under Mike Zimmer in Dallas, its a great fit for both sides.
HAPPYJAQ Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 I really like Ndukwe, but the fact we're this interested speaks volumes about how the Bengals internally feel about him. I only wonder if it was the injuries, the inconsistency or both. One things is for sure about Williams, there will be fewer of the those backbreaking long runs due to missed tackles from our Safeties. Roy is as good in the running game as he is questionable against the pass. I would love to see this guy get signed, as he could instantly give this defense an identity. They had to change to rules on tackling in the NFL because of his aggresiveness. If Zimmer can make a journeyman Safety like Crocker play at a near Pro Bowl level, imagine what he could do with a real talent and 5-time Pro Bowler like Roy Williams. For those who say he's washed up, he's only about a year older than Crocker.
Whur CHad At? Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Mike Zimmer made Roy Williams...sign him now
Kazkal Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Maybe they feel Ndukwe could be the FS..... eh >-<Wonder who will lose roster spot of we sign him-Marvin White cast off another 4th rounder...so much for building through the draft-Kyries Hebert Would hate to see the guy get the axe he's a special team stand out-Corey Lynch Has gotten nothing but praise since we drafted him so can't see it happening-If I had to take a guess I would say Marvin White would be on the chopping block but having a chance to beat out Hebert if he could beat him as a special teamer.
HAPPYJAQ Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Maybe they feel Ndukwe could be the FS..... eh >-<Wonder who will lose roster spot of we sign him-Marvin White cast off another 4th rounder...so much for building through the draft-Kyries Hebert Would hate to see the guy get the axe he's a special team stand out-Chris Lynch Has gotten nothing but praise since we drafted him so can't see it happening-If I had to take a guess I would say Marvin White would be on the chopping block but having a chance to beat out Hebert if he could beat him as a special teamer.Marvin probably starts the season on the PUP list and the Bengals had been trying to work Lynch in as a swing CB/S, when he was injured. Lynch probably will be the 5th CB/5th S in '09.
UF_Gators_15 Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Maybe they feel Ndukwe could be the FS..... eh >-<Wonder who will lose roster spot of we sign him-Marvin White cast off another 4th rounder...so much for building through the draft-Kyries Hebert Would hate to see the guy get the axe he's a special team stand out-Chris Lynch Has gotten nothing but praise since we drafted him so can't see it happening-If I had to take a guess I would say Marvin White would be on the chopping block but having a chance to beat out Hebert if he could beat him as a special teamer.His name is Corey Lynch! Obviously he's on the chopping block he can't stay healthy, we need to cut Lynch regardless of if we sign Roy or not
Spor_tees Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Maybe they feel Ndukwe could be the FS..... eh >-<Wonder who will lose roster spot of we sign him-Marvin White cast off another 4th rounder...so much for building through the draft-Kyries Hebert Would hate to see the guy get the axe he's a special team stand out-Chris Lynch Has gotten nothing but praise since we drafted him so can't see it happening-If I had to take a guess I would say Marvin White would be on the chopping block but having a chance to beat out Hebert if he could beat him as a special teamer.Marvin probably starts the season on the PUP list and the Bengals had been trying to work Lynch in as a swing CB/S, when he was injured. Lynch probably will be the 5th CB/5th S in '09.Lynch isn't very fast...remember he got caught by Michigan's kicker!
Kazkal Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Don't know where heck I got chris from >-< Can't stay healthy he was a rookie last year =P
Pidge Posted March 20, 2009 Report Posted March 20, 2009 One things is for sure about Williams, there will be fewer of the those backbreaking long runs due to missed tackles from our Safeties. Roy is as good in the running game as he is questionable against the pass.So good in fact that he was rarely trusted by the Cowboys to see any field time last season. I mean, he wasn't playing on the Pittsburgh D.If he does sign I'll be hoping for the best as it will help the Bengals but I'm not holding out much hope at all. Lynch might be jettisoned. Maybe the staff are getting sick of safeties made of frickin sugar glass. Some guys just don't have the build that can take the punishment at the NFL level. At least Roy is a bit of a bowling ball in that reagrd.
HAPPYJAQ Posted March 20, 2009 Report Posted March 20, 2009 One things is for sure about Williams, there will be fewer of the those backbreaking long runs due to missed tackles from our Safeties. Roy is as good in the running game as he is questionable against the pass.So good in fact that he was rarely trusted by the Cowboys to see any field time last season. I mean, he wasn't playing on the Pittsburgh D.If he does sign I'll be hoping for the best as it will help the Bengals but I'm not holding out much hope at all. Lynch might be jettisoned. Maybe the staff are getting sick of safeties made of frickin sugar glass. Some guys just don't have the build that can take the punishment at the NFL level. At least Roy is a bit of a bowling ball in that reagrd.Sometimes it's the scheme. Compare Roy earlier in his career to the last two seasons, or after Wade Phillips took over and Zimmer left for the Falcons. Scheme is everything, especially for defensive backs. Didn't Crocker play on 4 or 5 teams before looking like a future Pro Bowler for us last season? Madeui didn't look too good in his final few seasons with us and played very well in limited action for the Vikes last season. Going back further, the Broncos made Deltha O'Neal a WR the year before he was traded to the Bengals and went to the Pro Bowl. Roy Williams is only 29 years old. Three years ago, any Bengals fan alive would've loved to have had him and I still believe he can be a Top 5 SS in the NFL. As I've said before, he would give the defense a much-needed identity. We haven't had a Pro Bowl-caliber S here since David Fulcher and for the naysayers who question his ability against the pass, he has 19 career interceptions and is a proven playmaker. I really hope the Bengals pull the trigger on this one, although I almost get the feeling that he's using the Bengals to set the market for his services.
derekshank Posted March 20, 2009 Report Posted March 20, 2009 I will say that I respect that he knows his own limits. He asked to be released in Dallas not only because he wasn't playing much, but because he knew he wasn't a starting caliber SS in that scheme. Tampa offered him a contract, but he rejected it because he didn't feel like he fit well in the Tampa 2 scheme.He's also set to visit Houston and Oakland. I'm not sure what their schemes are like... but we all know that he fits in the Zimmer scheme. Sure, he had problems in coverage even in his pro bowl days - but that is why good coaching knows how to utilize his strengths without amplifying his weaknesses (New England does this with journeymen all the time). I doubt he's as bad as he's played the past couple of years. I've always thought he was overrated, but he does bring attitude to the position, and strikes fear in WR's coming across the middle. Where he is a top 5 Safety is the role he plays in the running game.I'm willing to bet he would make a positive impact on this team... but I'm still only 50/50 on this deal. I'm just not sure I care that much. It would be nice to believe that Mike Brown is willing to spend money to improve the team though.
HAPPYJAQ Posted March 20, 2009 Report Posted March 20, 2009 I will say that I respect that he knows his own limits. He asked to be released in Dallas not only because he wasn't playing much, but because he knew he wasn't a starting caliber SS in that scheme. Tampa offered him a contract, but he rejected it because he didn't feel like he fit well in the Tampa 2 scheme.He's also set to visit Houston and Oakland. I'm not sure what their schemes are like... but we all know that he fits in the Zimmer scheme. Sure, he had problems in coverage even in his pro bowl days - but that is why good coaching knows how to utilize his strengths without amplifying his weaknesses (New England does this with journeymen all the time). I doubt he's as bad as he's played the past couple of years. I've always thought he was overrated, but he does bring attitude to the position, and strikes fear in WR's coming across the middle. Where he is a top 5 Safety is the role he plays in the running game.I'm willing to bet he would make a positive impact on this team... but I'm still only 50/50 on this deal. I'm just not sure I care that much. It would be nice to believe that Mike Brown is willing to spend money to improve the team though.Good post and pretty much my thoughts on him, too. Sign him to an incentive=based deal and let him prove his worth on the team. The team obviously has doubts on Nduke, while understanding that Hebert is a Special Teams ace, at best. It's interesting that we could be close to acquiring one of the better safeties over the last decade, while he's still in his prime, while not having to give up a draft pick. It might've cost us a 2nd or 3rd round pick to get a player like Roy, prior to last season. I wonder how many fans would've taken a straight up Roy Williams for Chad trade, last season. If the money is the same, I would suspect that both Houston and Oakland have a better shot at landing Roy than we do. I'm almost having Warren Sapp dejavu right now.
Pidge Posted March 20, 2009 Report Posted March 20, 2009 Sometimes it's the scheme. Compare Roy earlier in his career to the last two seasons, or after Wade Phillips took over and Zimmer left for the Falcons. Scheme is everything, especially for defensive backs. Didn't Crocker play on 4 or 5 teams before looking like a future Pro Bowler for us last season? Madeui didn't look too good in his final few seasons with us and played very well in limited action for the Vikes last season. Going back further, the Broncos made Deltha O'Neal a WR the year before he was traded to the Bengals and went to the Pro Bowl. Roy Williams is only 29 years old. Three years ago, any Bengals fan alive would've loved to have had him and I still believe he can be a Top 5 SS in the NFL. As I've said before, he would give the defense a much-needed identity. We haven't had a Pro Bowl-caliber S here since David Fulcher and for the naysayers who question his ability against the pass, he has 19 career interceptions and is a proven playmaker. I really hope the Bengals pull the trigger on this one, although I almost get the feeling that he's using the Bengals to set the market for his services.What you say is true and he has performed at this level in the past. Incredibly well for a time. If he does sign I'll be hoping with every fibre of my Bengals supporting body that he can rebuild his game and reputation to something even approaching his play of a few seasons ago as we'll have a genuine presence on the D finally.Still, it would be a bit of flyer signing and no harm no foul. As long as we don't do something foolish like cut Duke to make way. Lynch for example - meh, had we seen much of anything from the guy on the field I might give a s**t about him.
Kazkal Posted March 20, 2009 Report Posted March 20, 2009 I wonder how many fans would've taken a straight up Roy Williams for Chad trade, last season. If the money is the same, I would suspect that both Houston and Oakland have a better shot at landing Roy than we do. I'm almost having Warren Sapp dejavu right now.I dunno if money is the same we may have the edge this time because of Zimmer,If he's looking for the right scheme wouldn't the guy who helped you get to 5 probowls be the the best person to use you properly?
BengalPimp Posted March 20, 2009 Report Posted March 20, 2009 These dudes can learn a lot from a vet like WilliamsLike the "horsecollar" tackle ?
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