Bengals O-Line

[BlainThePain]

I did a little research on how well every O-Linemen that started for the Bengals last season did statistically. Take from it what you will.

Levi Jones:

-Games played: 10

-Games started: 10

-Sacks allowed: 5.5

-Holds: 0

-False starts: 3

Andrew Whitworth:

-Games played: 10

-Games started: 10

-Sacks allowed: 5

-Holds: 1

-False starts: 0

Eric Ghiaciuc:

-Games played: 16

-Games started: 16

-Sacks allowed: 4

-Holds: 1

-False starts: 1

Bobbie Williams:

-Games played: 16

-Games started: 16

-Sacks allowed: 4

-Holds: 1

-False starts: 0

Stacy Andrews:

-Games played: 15

-Games started: 15

-Sacks allowed: 9.5

-Holds: 1

-False starts: 2

Anthony Collins:

-Games played: 9

-Games started: 6

-Sacks allowed: 2.5

-Holds: 2

-False starts: 1

Nate Livings:

-Games played: 6

-Games started: 6

-Sacks allowed: 0.5

-Holds: 0

-False starts: 0

Dennis Roland:

-Games played: 2

-Games started: 1

-Sacks allowed: 0

-Holds: 0

-False starts: 0

[Kazkal]

Would help to see how many times the QB got hit...How many times they missed a assignment etc...

I do think we have the players atleast to have a pretty good Oline maybe not light's out but if we get center FA then add some depth... how would people feel about a Oline that looked like

LT:Collins

LG:Livings or Draft pick (say we get birk take Unger in round 2 and let him start out at LG well he develops.

Center:Brown or Birk

RG:Williams

RT:Whitworth

[BlainThePain]

Would help to see how many times the QB got hit...How many times they missed a assignment etc...

I do think we have the players atleast to have a pretty good Oline maybe not light's out but if we get center FA then add some depth... how would people feel about a Oline that looked like

LT:Collins

LG:Livings or Draft pick (say we get birk take Unger in round 2 and let him start out at LG well he develops.

Center:Brown or Birk

RG:Williams

RT:Whitworth

Whitworth would probably be an upgrade over Andrews at RT, but I still don't like the idea of Whitworth playing a full season against edge rushers. I still think we should draft a tackle 6th overall. The top priority is keeping Palmer from receiving another major injury. Palmer gets hurt bad one more time and you can count on ten more years of misery.

We play in a division with three separate teams that run a 3-4, and three of the best pass rushers in the NFL in Harrison, Woodley, and Suggs. We have to have two tackles that can take on some of the fastest edge rushers that the NFL has to offer, and IMO, that isn't Whitworth. I love Whitworth on the interior, and I think we should keep him there. Also, I doubt we draft Unger since we seem to like huge guards. We play in a division with Corey Williams, Casey Hampton, Haloti Ngata, and Shaun Rogers, so we have to have powerful interior linemen. If you want to find a guard prospect that the Bengals probably like, look at the big tackles, that are powerful run blockers, can block down field, but have trouble with edge rushers. Somebody like Phil Loadholt.

I'm for drafting a tackle at 6, signing a veteran center like Brown, Hangartner, Meester, Birk, or Saturday, drafting another center for depth (especially if we sign one of the 30+ year old centers), and praying to God that Collins doesn't regress. Unless they want Andrews to play right guard, I don't even want to see him back. A lot of people complain about Ghiaciuc and for good reason, but Andrews was a worse right tackle than Ghiaciuc was a center. Also, I think the two best prospects in the draft for a center is either taking Eric Wood or drafting Andy Levitre and turning him into a center.

[Kazkal]

Willie did just fine and most other RT's aren't really that light on their feet...I think he would do just fine if we gave him chance to play right tackle for a full season rather then only throw him in for a game or two encase of a emergency...If not keep whitworth then keep him at LG...Livings can be Bobbies future replacement and draft a RT somewhere in rnd 2-4....

[HAPPYJAQ]

I'd like to have a definitive answer on whether Whit can play T or not. I think that Livings proved he could play last year and there is OT-like money tied up in Whit's contract. He played his first season here in '06 and did very well as a rookie, while playing a lot of LT. There's no reason to think he'd be fine on the right side with a full training camp, in his 4th season.

In Collins you have a player who in coming out early as a Junior, is basically a 1st round pick with a year in the Bengals system already. He played well on the left side against some of the league's best and will be even better with a full camp and preseason as a starter. He is the most confident and fiery lineman we've had since Munoz and Kozerski. Levi could bounce back, too, and is one of the league's best, at his best, and he's only 29.

Take the BPA or trade down. The Bengals can't afford to continue to reach for players to fill needs in maybe the most important season in Bengals history. There is plenty of non-OL's that will be there at #6 that can positively impact the team. A rookie OT is not going to be a major factor in this season on the OL, unless it's a Joe Thomas/Jake Long type of player and none of the OT's in this draft are.

[Baraka]

I'd like to have a definitive answer on whether Whit can play T or not. I think that Livings proved he could play last year and there is OT-like money tied up in Whit's contract. He played his first season here in '06 and did very well as a rookie, while playing a lot of LT. There's no reason to think he'd be fine on the right side with a full training camp, in his 4th season.

In Collins you have a player who in coming out early as a Junior, is basically a 1st round pick with a year in the Bengals system already. He played well on the left side against some of the league's best and will be even better with a full camp and preseason as a starter. He is the most confident and fiery lineman we've had since Munoz and Kozerski. Levi could bounce back, too, and is one of the league's best, at his best, and he's only 29.

Take the BPA or trade down. The Bengals can't afford to continue to reach for players to fill needs in maybe the most important season in Bengals history. There is plenty of non-OL's that will be there at #6 that can positively impact the team. A rookie OT is not going to be a major factor in this season on the OL, unless it's a Joe Thomas/Jake Long type of player and none of the OT's in this draft are.

i think there is a valid argument that this year there are 3 joethomas/jakelong's

but its too late now, more later if you give a damn. because that was a good post happyjaq, nay a great post, i'm just too drunk to adequately respond right now. props nontheless!

[ArmyBengal]

From all accounts, most scouts I've seen talk about the tackles believe there are many first round talent type guys, but not ONE of them are in the mold of Joe Thomas or Jake Long. I think that's why you also can't find anyone willing to give you a DEFINITIVE top OT in this years draft. As much as I would like to see the Bengals do something spectacular and trade down, they will probably end up drafting an OT at #6. I won't have a problem with that either so I guess that's good. Not sexy, but very useful...

In regards to the stats, it also doesn't address which players ended up on the ground or pushed back into the backfield allowing the defensive player to cause a QB hurry or at a minimum disruption. By the stats, Guychick didn't do that poorly, but we all know better don't we ??

[HAPPYJAQ]

For what it's worth, I think that Eugene Monroe is the closest thing to the Thomas/Long types but there is a question on his functional strength. That might be the only negative in his game, though. The others, including Andre Smith, have major questions. If the Bengals are to pick an OT at #6, if has to be a LT type and the only solid LT prospects in this draft are Monroe and Jason Smith and the pick would have to be Monroe, between the two of them. Monroe was good enough to make Branden Albert play G at Virginia and that should say something as Albert was a top 10 pick himself.

I'd much rather see the Bengals trade down and get a pash rusher and pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick, depending on how far they drop. A guy like Aaron Maybin or Everett Brown would be ideal. We need more short fields, which are caused by pressure on the QB, sacks and turnovers, and these guys could have immediate impact on 3rd downs.

[HairOnFire]

What's the story on Andre Smith? A couple of weeks ago I mentioned how it seemed he might be falling...prompting Hoosier to claim the opposite was true, saying Smith now a virtual lock at #2. As it turns out I stumble across both views, rising and falling, almost equally.

[JoePong]

What's the story on Andre Smith? A couple of weeks ago I mentioned how it seemed he might be falling...prompting Hoosier to claim the opposite was true, saying Smith now a virtual lock at #2. As it turns out I stumble across both views, rising and falling, almost equally.

Exactly what I've been saying since the Florida-Alabama game when he wasn't quick enough to handle the speed pass rushers on the edge. A bunch of people on here argued with me, but go back and watch the tape. Watch near the end of the game, the pass rusher went right around him like he was standing still, nailed the QB - which caused the intereception that sealed the game for Florida. A bunch of people on this board argued with me, claiming it was because of some mixup when he took the inside guy and nobody picked up the blitzer. But I went back and watched the tape. It was straight man-to-man. No confusion. Nothing. He just flat out got beat badly.

[HAPPYJAQ]

It's been reported on various sites that teams want to see if Andre Smith will come to the combine in shape, otherwise he's a risky pick and could land as low as the mid to late first round. Jason Smith sounded fiery and maybe a tad bit overconfident at his press conference at the Combine. I wonder how that'll go over with teams.

[fattyjay]

I think the easiest scenario to bolster the OL would be to keep Collins at LT, move Whit to RT, target a C in FA, then draft a G/C in the middle rounds. So, then they would have Jones and Andrews fighting to make the roster, and they seem to have good depth beyond that. I really like Roland, Livings and Kooistra. They seem to like Santucci, Cook and Crummey. At that point they would have around 12 guys going to camp to choose from. If they can't put together something out of that, then I give up.

I think the main point of my arguement is that IMO taking an OT at #6 would be overkill on the tackle position. I honestly wouldn't rule out a WR, not that I'm a fan of that but there are 2 guys that fit the value of that pick.

[HairOnFire]

Exactly what I've been saying since the Florida-Alabama game when he wasn't quick enough to handle the speed pass rushers on the edge. A bunch of people on here argued with me, but go back and watch the tape.

I don't have to review the tape since I saw the same things as you. That said, I like Andre Smith as a RT, which IMHO just so happens to match the Bengals greatest need. So if he does fall....I'm interested.

[HairOnFire]

Jason Smith sounded fiery and maybe a tad bit overconfident at his press conference at the Combine. I wonder how that'll go over with teams.

It'll go over just fine....especially the part about how much he enjoys physically assaulting the guy across the line.

[JoePong]

I think the easiest scenario to bolster the OL would be to keep Collins at LT, move Whit to RT, target a C in FA, then draft a G/C in the middle rounds. So, then they would have Jones and Andrews fighting to make the roster, and they seem to have good depth beyond that. I really like Roland, Livings and Kooistra. They seem to like Santucci, Cook and Crummey. At that point they would have around 12 guys going to camp to choose from. If they can't put together something out of that, then I give up.

I think the main point of my arguement is that IMO taking an OT at #6 would be overkill on the tackle position. I honestly wouldn't rule out a WR, not that I'm a fan of that but there are 2 guys that fit the value of that pick.

No, the easiest (and best) thing to do would be keep Whitworth and Williams as the guards. Keep Collins as one tackle and draft a top notch tackle to pair with him. If you take a guy like Monroe who can play LT, play Collins at RT. If you take a guy like A Smith who projects as a RT (or if you think Andrews can come back and play well), you keep Collins at LT. Then there are a bunch of quality centers available.

[BlainThePain]

I think the easiest scenario to bolster the OL would be to keep Collins at LT, move Whit to RT, target a C in FA, then draft a G/C in the middle rounds. So, then they would have Jones and Andrews fighting to make the roster, and they seem to have good depth beyond that. I really like Roland, Livings and Kooistra. They seem to like Santucci, Cook and Crummey. At that point they would have around 12 guys going to camp to choose from. If they can't put together something out of that, then I give up.

I think the main point of my arguement is that IMO taking an OT at #6 would be overkill on the tackle position. I honestly wouldn't rule out a WR, not that I'm a fan of that but there are 2 guys that fit the value of that pick.

No, the easiest (and best) thing to do would be keep Whitworth and Williams as the guards. Keep Collins as one tackle and draft a top notch tackle to pair with him. If you take a guy like Monroe who can play LT, play Collins at RT. If you take a guy like A Smith who projects as a RT (or if you think Andrews can come back and play well), you keep Collins at LT. Then there are a bunch of quality centers available.

I agree with you. Keep the players where they are excelling and draft new talent to fix the holes. The only difference between us is you like Eugene Monroe and A Smith while I like Eugene Monroe and Michael Oher.

[HairOnFire]

No, the easiest (and best) thing to do would be keep Whitworth and Williams as the guards. Keep Collins as one tackle and draft a top notch tackle to pair with him. If you take a guy like Monroe who can play LT, play Collins at RT. If you take a guy like A Smith who projects as a RT (or if you think Andrews can come back and play well), you keep Collins at LT. Then there are a bunch of quality centers available.

I agree with everything save for the last line. IMHO there may be plenty of quality centers available, but few of them, college or pro, would meet the Bengals need/desire for more interior size and power.

[Clackwoods]

I think the easiest scenario to bolster the OL would be to keep Collins at LT, move Whit to RT, target a C in FA, then draft a G/C in the middle rounds. So, then they would have Jones and Andrews fighting to make the roster, and they seem to have good depth beyond that. I really like Roland, Livings and Kooistra. They seem to like Santucci, Cook and Crummey. At that point they would have around 12 guys going to camp to choose from. If they can't put together something out of that, then I give up.

I think the main point of my arguement is that IMO taking an OT at #6 would be overkill on the tackle position. I honestly wouldn't rule out a WR, not that I'm a fan of that but there are 2 guys that fit the value of that pick.

No, the easiest (and best) thing to do would be keep Whitworth and Williams as the guards. Keep Collins as one tackle and draft a top notch tackle to pair with him. If you take a guy like Monroe who can play LT, play Collins at RT. If you take a guy like A Smith who projects as a RT (or if you think Andrews can come back and play well), you keep Collins at LT. Then there are a bunch of quality centers available.

I agree with you. Keep the players where they are excelling and draft new talent to fix the holes. The only difference between us is you like Eugene Monroe and A Smith while I like Eugene Monroe and Michael Oher.

Honestly, until about three minutes ago I wanted Eugene the most as well. However, after reading some of these interviews that the OL have been giving I am now riding the Jason Smith train. Read what this guy says when asks certain questions, I really like his attitude and outlook on football.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation?tag=09%20combine

Here is just a small excerpt: "When I'm on the field, I take a lot of pride in physically assaulting somebody."

and

"But once you get your hands on a guy and grab him and squeeze him and slam him, or whatever goes on in the trenches, it's a great feeling."

[BlainThePain]

I think the easiest scenario to bolster the OL would be to keep Collins at LT, move Whit to RT, target a C in FA, then draft a G/C in the middle rounds. So, then they would have Jones and Andrews fighting to make the roster, and they seem to have good depth beyond that. I really like Roland, Livings and Kooistra. They seem to like Santucci, Cook and Crummey. At that point they would have around 12 guys going to camp to choose from. If they can't put together something out of that, then I give up.

I think the main point of my arguement is that IMO taking an OT at #6 would be overkill on the tackle position. I honestly wouldn't rule out a WR, not that I'm a fan of that but there are 2 guys that fit the value of that pick.

No, the easiest (and best) thing to do would be keep Whitworth and Williams as the guards. Keep Collins as one tackle and draft a top notch tackle to pair with him. If you take a guy like Monroe who can play LT, play Collins at RT. If you take a guy like A Smith who projects as a RT (or if you think Andrews can come back and play well), you keep Collins at LT. Then there are a bunch of quality centers available.

I agree with you. Keep the players where they are excelling and draft new talent to fix the holes. The only difference between us is you like Eugene Monroe and A Smith while I like Eugene Monroe and Michael Oher.

Honestly, until about three minutes ago I wanted Eugene the most as well. However, after reading some of these interviews that the OL have been giving I am now riding the Jason Smith train. Read what this guy says when asks certain questions, I really like his attitude and outlook on football.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation?tag=09%20combine

Here is just a small excerpt: "When I'm on the field, I take a lot of pride in physically assaulting somebody."

and

"But once you get your hands on a guy and grab him and squeeze him and slam him, or whatever goes on in the trenches, it's a great feeling."

You might think twice after reading this. This is a quote from a director of college scouting from an NFL team.

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=914271

The kid from Baylor [Jason Smith], I must be missing something. I don't know, I just don't see it. …

[BlainThePain]

No, the easiest (and best) thing to do would be keep Whitworth and Williams as the guards. Keep Collins as one tackle and draft a top notch tackle to pair with him. If you take a guy like Monroe who can play LT, play Collins at RT. If you take a guy like A Smith who projects as a RT (or if you think Andrews can come back and play well), you keep Collins at LT. Then there are a bunch of quality centers available.

I agree with everything save for the last line. IMHO there may be plenty of quality centers available, but few of them, college or pro, would meet the Bengals need/desire for more interior size and power.

Agreed. I think there are only three that meet the Bengals O-line design and that's Alex Mack, Eric Wood, and Andy Levitre. I think if somebody has the foresight to move him there, that Andy Levitre will be the best center to come out of this draft. You want another Rich Braham? Than this is the guy. Braham was smart, powerful, mobile, and a good technician that played tackle for WVU, but his arms were too short to play tackle in the pros. Go read a scouting report on Levitre (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingrepo...ndy-Levitre.php) he is almost identical to Braham.

[Baraka]

you have to wonder if the scout was telling the whole truth about j. smith, he didn't really seem to like anyone, let the b.s. and sleight of hand begin

[GregCook]

you have to wonder if the scout was telling the whole truth about j. smith, he didn't really seem to like anyone, let the b.s. and sleight of hand begin

The Oline that started the pre-season was bad and thru all the injuries stayed bad. There is Collins, Whitworth as long term guys, Williams is getting up in age. Collins at RT could be a near Pro Bowl guy, will he at LT? I don't think so. Whitworth can play lots of spots but is near Pro Bowl at LG. Why not put those guys where they excel and add new guys that have the potential to excel at LT and C? The other factor is Paul Alexander, the guy does know his beefeaters, if I'm MB and Paul is telling me his guy is at #6, I take him.

[HairOnFire]

The kid from Baylor [Jason Smith], I must be missing something. I don't know, I just don't see it. …

Noted, but what does the guy mean? Doesn't see what? Doesn't see a top 5 guy? Doesn't see a 1st rounder? Doesn't see anything at all? I mean c'mon, it's a single sentence that's so thin and vague I'm not even sure what's being said.

Frankly, I've barely seen Jason Smith play so I can't get very excited or critical of anything being said about him...with one exception. That being....GPA - 4.0

I like that.

[Baraka]

The kid from Baylor [Jason Smith], I must be missing something. I don't know, I just don't see it. …

Noted, but what does the guy mean? Doesn't see what? Doesn't see a top 5 guy? Doesn't see a 1st rounder? Doesn't see anything at all? I mean c'mon, it's a single sentence that's so thin and vague I'm not even sure what's being said.

Frankly, I've barely seen Jason Smith play so I can't get very excited or critical of anything being said about him...with one exception. That being....GPA - 4.0

I like that.

that's why i thought it was suspect, pretty vague.

and the 4.0 gpa was only one quarter, and that was an internship at a rec center, so. . .

[Clackwoods]

The kid from Baylor [Jason Smith], I must be missing something. I don't know, I just don't see it. …

Noted, but what does the guy mean? Doesn't see what? Doesn't see a top 5 guy? Doesn't see a 1st rounder? Doesn't see anything at all? I mean c'mon, it's a single sentence that's so thin and vague I'm not even sure what's being said.

Frankly, I've barely seen Jason Smith play so I can't get very excited or critical of anything being said about him...with one exception. That being....GPA - 4.0

I like that.

that's why i thought it was suspect, pretty vague.

and the 4.0 gpa was only one quarter, and that was an internship at a rec center, so. . .

I don't care what a single scout says, especially when everyone else is on his bandwagon. I haven't ever seen him play, but a dude that talks like that and has a 4.0 gpa is no punk. He used to be a TE also which means he has athleticism.

Something noone I have seen talk about is Vernon Carey. If we think that Collins can play LT, why not go after Carey and Brown. We have the cash to do it and it seemed to work out well for the Jets last year

(Yes I know they collapsed, but I watched at least 10 of their games and they had a great running game and the reason they fell apart is because Brett got hurt).

I really want a defensive player in round 1 or CrabTree. I understand and appreciate the need for an OT, but it seems like their are to many viable options out their that would allow us to forgo drafting an OT in round 1.