Graham Tagged

[HoTbOy]

Put me in the "I'm glad they didn't tag TJ boat", SGraham is a top 5 K and 2.5 mil or whatever is not bad...As much as I would have like TJ to stay, I don't think he is worth 10mil a year he is not a #1 WR, and if some team plans on making him that, they are in for a surprise, he is Robin and not Batman...With this move though, I swear I can see the Bengals taking MCrabtree now...

[Bearcat1975]

A whole lot of b*tching for something that is right about par for the course.

This about sums it up. Not a bullseye but at least they didn't misfire. As a Bengalsfan, I'll take it.

[Thurmanation]

Put me in the "I'm glad they didn't tag TJ boat, SGraham is a top 5 K and 2.5 mil or whatever is not bad...As much as I would have like TJ to stay, I don't think he is worth 10mil a year he is not a #1 WR, and if some team plans on making him that, they are in for a surprise, he is Robin and not Batman...With this move though, I swear I can see the Bengals taking MCrabtree now...

I just got one of those chills, when you don't know whats wrong, but you just know somethings not right.

[icehole3]

anyone remember all the hoopla over Dewayne Robertson, sometimes you do have to be careful with the cap space and think long term on these things and if a guy really doesnt want to be here let him go.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL

Dewayne Robertson-DL- Broncos Feb. 16 - 8:06 pm et

Broncos released DLs Dewayne Robertson and John Engelberger, LBs Jamie Winborn and Niko Koutouvides, TE Nate Jackson, and SS Marquand Manuel.

The moves save a cool $22.2M under the salary cap. Robertson's cap figure was $16M, a ridiculous amount for a league-average wave tackle with bum knees. The No. 4 overall pick in 2003, Robertson is 27 but may not have more than a season left in him. The Broncos kept him on the roster last year despite Robertson failing every physical they put him through. Josh McDaniels is cleaning house with the other Shanahan-era holdovers.

[Clackwoods]

Put me in the "I'm glad they didn't tag TJ boat", SGraham is a top 5 K and 2.5 mil or whatever is not bad...As much as I would have like TJ to stay, I don't think he is worth 10mil a year he is not a #1 WR, and if some team plans on making him that, they are in for a surprise, he is Robin and not Batman...With this move though, I swear I can see the Bengals taking MCrabtree now...

It would sting not to take defense, but I wouldn't argue with this pick. I would probably go and buy his jersey!

[Clackwoods]

anyone remember all the hoopla over Dewayne Robertson, sometimes you do have to be careful with the cap space and think long term on these things and if a guy really doesnt want to be here let him go.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL

Dewayne Robertson-DL- Broncos Feb. 16 - 8:06 pm et

Broncos released DLs Dewayne Robertson and John Engelberger, LBs Jamie Winborn and Niko Koutouvides, TE Nate Jackson, and SS Marquand Manuel.

The moves save a cool $22.2M under the salary cap. Robertson's cap figure was $16M, a ridiculous amount for a league-average wave tackle with bum knees. The No. 4 overall pick in 2003, Robertson is 27 but may not have more than a season left in him. The Broncos kept him on the roster last year despite Robertson failing every physical they put him through. Josh McDaniels is cleaning house with the other Shanahan-era holdovers.

Yea, this makes me happy that we didn't trade for his BUST a** last season. What I do think we should do is take a fliar on Jamie Winborn. He is only 30 and I saw him play last season and he looked good. I wouldn't mind bringing him in for cheap.

[combatbengal]

I just don't understand why so many people want to get rid of TJ. The man comes to play week after week. He doesn't talk trash, just comes to play. Not only does he come to play but he goes across the middle, takes some huge hits and makes positive yardage. Everybody calls Chad the number one guy; where has Chad been the past two years? He didn't do anything last year and the year before, he wasn't invited to the pro bowl (when TJ was). The only reason that he went was because Randy Moss decided not to attend. This will be a huge mistake if we lose TJ.

We're taking ammo away from Palmer. Palmer and TJ already have chemistry. The work extremely well together. If you bring in a guy to replace him, Palmer and the new guy will have to start from scratch and most likely won’t be consistent until mid season.

Graham is a good kicker, but I wouldn’t have wasted the tag on him. We should of signed him to a long term contract.

[Kazkal]

where has Chad been the past two years? He didn't do anything last year and the year before,

Um Chad had 1440 yards in 2007 having a career & Franchise year....TJ had 1,143.......

[HoTbOy]

I just don't understand why so many people want to get rid of TJ. The man comes to play week after week. He doesn't talk trash, just comes to play. Not only does he come to play but he goes across the middle, takes some huge hits and makes positive yardage. Everybody calls Chad the number one guy; where has Chad been the past two years? He didn't do anything last year and the year before, he wasn't invited to the pro bowl (when TJ was). The only reason that he went was because Randy Moss decided not to attend. This will be a huge mistake if we lose TJ.

We're taking ammo away from Palmer. Palmer and TJ already have chemistry. The work extremely well together. If you bring in a guy to replace him, Palmer and the new guy will have to start from scratch and most likely won’t be consistent until mid season.

Graham is a good kicker, but I wouldn’t have wasted the tag on him. We should of signed him to a long term contract.

I agree they should have tried to sign SGraham before now, and I wish TJ was still here, but don't get it twisted,TJ does what he does because of the doubles that CJohnson gets, TJ is mainly 1 on 1 with a CB, LB, S,so he should win most of those battles, but he can't stretch the field because he is not that fast, If they were trying to sign TJ to a long term deal, I would be fine with it, but I can't see giving him 10 mil to be a 10-12 yard checkdown...

[agreen_112]

I expect that the Bengals have offered TJ a nice deal that he has refused. We've done our part.. We can not afford to spend 10 mil on TJ, that's crazy talk... This is good for Chad too. They need to separate.

Tagging Graham was the next best thing the Bengals could've done since signing TJ long-term wasn't an option.

Good bye TJ, good luck, don't let the door hit you on the way out f**kbag.

[Jet23]

I'm telling you, it doesn't take that much to see that one coming sooner or later as well. Marvin has been quoted multiple times about how "HUGE" they think Simpson is going to be this coming season. Simpson was drafted to replace one receiver and I'll give you a hint, his name isn't TJ.

Now how that all works out remains to be seen, but I'm only commenting on how the organization views the situation if you take them at their word.

I think you're giving Marvin way too much credit for his (in)ability to evaluate talent. What's wrong with hedging your bets by guaranteeing that Carson has at least one legit receiver to throw to next season? Are we really betting the season that Henry stays out of trouble and Mouth doesn't implode? If they are sold on Graham, lock him up for four years at top 5 money.

[Clackwoods]

For all those that are upset about losing TJ and want an older reciever, lets trade a third round pick to the Rams for Torry Holt!

[Walrus]

Anyone think franchising Graham might actually help negotiations w/ Benson and Crocker?

I could see Benson wanting to be tagged and feeling like he deserves that kind of cash (dude loves him some him) but the Bengals certainly are not offering him anything close. By taking that possibility off the table might he be more apt to sign a deal?

[Jet23]

For all those that are upset about losing TJ and want an older reciever, lets trade a third round pick to the Rams for Torry Holt!

That sounds too much like a plan. For this reason, it has zero chance of being considered. Although we can sign him to a one year deal and tag him next year...

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Anyone think franchising Graham might actually help negotiations w/ Benson and Crocker?

I could see Benson wanting to be tagged and feeling like he deserves it (dude loves him some him) but the Bengals certainly are not offering him anything close to that kind of money. By taking that possibility off the table might he be more apt to sign a deal?

Don't think so. The tag gives the team leverage - ie, sign the deal or else we'll tag you. And players generally do not like being tagged, because there's no up-front money from a long-term deal.

Without the tag, he'd be an idiot no to listen to other offers.

[Walrus]

Anyone think franchising Graham might actually help negotiations w/ Benson and Crocker?

I could see Benson wanting to be tagged and feeling like he deserves it (dude loves him some him) but the Bengals certainly are not offering him anything close to that kind of money. By taking that possibility off the table might he be more apt to sign a deal?

Don't think so. The tag gives the team leverage - ie, sign the deal or else we'll tag you. And players generally do not like being tagged, because there's no up-front money from a long-term deal.

Without the tag, he'd be an idiot no to listen to other offers.

So any team who uses the tag has probably given up on signing anyone else before free agency? Not sure I buy that ... Why would any team ever not wait until the last minute?

(But I'm not sure I buy my argument either -- I was just putting it out there. Thanks for your reply! )

[Clackwoods]

Anyone think franchising Graham might actually help negotiations w/ Benson and Crocker?

I could see Benson wanting to be tagged and feeling like he deserves it (dude loves him some him) but the Bengals certainly are not offering him anything close to that kind of money. By taking that possibility off the table might he be more apt to sign a deal?

Don't think so. The tag gives the team leverage - ie, sign the deal or else we'll tag you. And players generally do not like being tagged, because there's no up-front money from a long-term deal.

Without the tag, he'd be an idiot no to listen to other offers.

I really don't see as big a market for him as everyone is predicting. Remember the guy sat on the shelf for half the season and ANY NFL team could have scooped him up. He was on par last year with what he did in Chicago so their is no reason to believe that he is going to be that sought after.

He should also realize that he will be the MAN here and that we are the ones that saved his career so I could see us signing him for 4 years and 14 million.

Teams today that need a RB will get on through the draft, their are at least five starting caliber RB's in this years draft.....Knowshown, Beanie, the dude from Pitt, Connecticut, and my favorite Javon Ringer

For those that have a feature back and need a compliment they could go after Ward, Jordan, Taylor.....Their is a lot of backs out their that they won't have to spend big money to get

[sparky151]

Tagging Graham was the usual bad ERP by the Bengals. A couple of people asked earlier why tagging TJ was a no brainer. We are paying Graham 2.48 mil under the tag. Suppose we work out a long term deal paying him 15 mil over 5 years. That's an average of 3 mil per. We wasted our franchise tag for a half mil. Not good use of resources. Suppose Graham refuses to sign a contract under any conditions. We kept him for a season when there are plenty of kickers on the market. Sakoda and Gano look like average NFL kicking prospects. There's usually a kicker who comes out of nowhere as a rookie free agent. Graham just isn't that hard to replace.

Now we will certainly lose TJ. Caldwell looked promising last season and should in time prove a good replacement. However losing TJ makes it harder to trade Chad since it would be nice to give Carson at least one veteran he's familiar with and Chatman isn't starter quality. Would I want to pay TJ 10 mil for a season? No, we should have tagged and traded him. Tagged players aren't hard to trade. TJ is worth as much to a receiver needy team as Corey Williams was last year. I think we could have gotten a 2nd round pick in 2009 for TJ. As it is, we might get at best a 2010 comp pick. The very highest of those is pick 97 and Haynesworth and some other players will surely sign contracts that pay more than TJ. If the Bengals use the money saved by not tagging TJ for another player, they won't get a comp pick at all. If they sign more qualified free agents in total than they lose they won't get any comp picks. A trade would ensure compensation for losing a good receiver.

That's why tagging TJ was a no brainer.

[Clackwoods]

Tagging Graham was the usual bad ERP by the Bengals. A couple of people asked earlier why tagging TJ was a no brainer. We are paying Graham 2.48 mil under the tag. Suppose we work out a long term deal paying him 15 mil over 5 years. That's an average of 3 mil per. We wasted our franchise tag for a half mil. Not good use of resources. Suppose Graham refuses to sign a contract under any conditions. We kept him for a season when there are plenty of kickers on the market. Sakoda and Gano look like average NFL kicking prospects. There's usually a kicker who comes out of nowhere as a rookie free agent. Graham just isn't that hard to replace.

Now we will certainly lose TJ. Caldwell looked promising last season and should in time prove a good replacement. However losing TJ makes it harder to trade Chad since it would be nice to give Carson at least one veteran he's familiar with and Chatman isn't starter quality. Would I want to pay TJ 10 mil for a season? No, we should have tagged and traded him. Tagged players aren't hard to trade. TJ is worth as much to a receiver needy team as Corey Williams was last year. I think we could have gotten a 2nd round pick in 2009 for TJ. As it is, we might get at best a 2010 comp pick. The very highest of those is pick 97 and Haynesworth and some other players will surely sign contracts that pay more than TJ. If the Bengals use the money saved by not tagging TJ for another player, they won't get a comp pick at all. If they sign more qualified free agents in total than they lose they won't get any comp picks. A trade would ensure compensation for losing a good receiver.

That's why tagging TJ was a no brainer.

I do agree that we should have tagged and traded him, however the problem with that is who's to say we could trade him before FA starts? If he is still tagged and not traded, now we have no money to sign some other players that can help our team. Tag or no tag 2009 would have been his last season with the Bengals anyways because we have his replacement. Plus he doesn't want to be here. This to me makes it a no brainer not to Franchise him. Also, kickers aren't that easy to replace, why do you think people sign their kickers to big deals? Because they are difficult to find.

Shayne is a top 4 kicker EVER...Who cares if he missed one big kick. Every kicker misses.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm telling you, it doesn't take that much to see that one coming sooner or later as well. Marvin has been quoted multiple times about how "HUGE" they think Simpson is going to be this coming season. Simpson was drafted to replace one receiver and I'll give you a hint, his name isn't TJ.

Now how that all works out remains to be seen, but I'm only commenting on how the organization views the situation if you take them at their word.

I think you're giving Marvin way too much credit for his (in)ability to evaluate talent. What's wrong with hedging your bets by guaranteeing that Carson has at least one legit receiver to throw to next season? Are we really betting the season that Henry stays out of trouble and Mouth doesn't implode? If they are sold on Graham, lock him up for four years at top 5 money.

I'M not giving Marvin credit for sh*t. I've only stated the words that have come out of the mans mouth and tried to give legit reasons why the organization is headed in the direction they seem to be headed. Henry is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, when (as I've stated many times) the organization "views" Simpson as Chad's replacement and Caldwell as TJ's. Henry stays right where he is now and they still have the ability to bring in or draft another WR. They also still have the two other youngsters on the practice squad and Chatman as well.

Sure, agree with locking up Shayne, but no one here knows what goes on between his agent and the team, so who really knows for sure ?? Tag and trade huh ?? Again, you have to have a willing participant and if you don't, you have one uber-pissed off WR, who has now made it known why he hasn't participated in the past getting paid 10 million, because once it's signed, it's guaranteed. Is that what is best for the team as a whole ?? No way the answer is yes, NO WAY...

I believe the tag was perfect for Shayne based on the fact that it DIDN'T cost the team that much. If we sign TJ long term, it saves the team money versus the tag so great. Tagging Shayne actually about equals out when he would be getting that much in a long term deal anyway. The only other place I would have been ok using the tag is on Benson believe it or not. However, for all the naysayers, there are still plenty of questions I have posed that no one is willing to honestly answer, so just keep throwing out the "Mike Brown is an idiot" comments. He may be, but it doesn't make the use of this tag wrong or bad for the organization.

On a side note, I wish they would be able to work out a long term deal for Shayne because I want him back and it still may happen.

[HairOnFire]

If the Bengals use the money saved by not tagging TJ for another player, they won't get a comp pick at all.

But if the Bengals sign a different FA who commands a 9.88 million dollar payday we'd all be happy, right?

If they sign more qualified free agents in total than they lose they won't get any comp picks.

Sorry, under the above scenario we'd all be happy again, right?

A trade would ensure compensation for losing a good receiver.

But the only thing that could prevent the Bengals from receiving adequate compensation are unlikely things that almost certainly won't happen but would make us all very happy if they did.

That's why tagging TJ was a no brainer.

I'm happy they didn't tag Housh. I don't have a bad thing to say about the guy and I admit the team will be immediately poorer for not having him. But for this team he's not worth what it would take to keep him.

[Jet23]

I'm telling you, it doesn't take that much to see that one coming sooner or later as well. Marvin has been quoted multiple times about how "HUGE" they think Simpson is going to be this coming season. Simpson was drafted to replace one receiver and I'll give you a hint, his name isn't TJ.

Now how that all works out remains to be seen, but I'm only commenting on how the organization views the situation if you take them at their word.

I think you're giving Marvin way too much credit for his (in)ability to evaluate talent. What's wrong with hedging your bets by guaranteeing that Carson has at least one legit receiver to throw to next season? Are we really betting the season that Henry stays out of trouble and Mouth doesn't implode? If they are sold on Graham, lock him up for four years at top 5 money.

I'M not giving Marvin credit for sh*t. I've only stated the words that have come out of the mans mouth and tried to give legit reasons why the organization is headed in the direction they seem to be headed. Henry is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, when (as I've stated many times) the organization "views" Simpson as Chad's replacement and Caldwell as TJ's. Henry stays right where he is now and they still have the ability to bring in or draft another WR. They also still have the two other youngsters on the practice squad and Chatman as well.

Sure, agree with locking up Shayne, but no one here knows what goes on between his agent and the team, so who really knows for sure ?? Tag and trade huh ?? Again, you have to have a willing participant and if you don't, you have one uber-pissed off WR, who has now made it known why he hasn't participated in the past getting paid 10 million, because once it's signed, it's guaranteed. Is that what is best for the team as a whole ?? No way the answer is yes, NO WAY...

I believe the tag was perfect for Shayne based on the fact that it DIDN'T cost the team that much. If we sign TJ long term, it saves the team money versus the tag so great. Tagging Shayne actually about equals out when he would be getting that much in a long term deal anyway. The only other place I would have been ok using the tag is on Benson believe it or not. However, for all the naysayers, there are still plenty of questions I have posed that no one is willing to honestly answer, so just keep throwing out the "Mike Brown is an idiot" comments. He may be, but it doesn't make the use of this tag wrong or bad for the organization.

On a side note, I wish they would be able to work out a long term deal for Shayne because I want him back and it still may happen.

Well, color me firmly in the 'Mike Brown is an idiot' crowd. But, I would be o.k. with not tagging TJ if there was an actual plan. They have stated that they want to revert to a running team. If that is the case, why not tag Benson? I agree with you 100%. Cris Collinsworth often says that if something doesn't make sense, say money and you are correct 99% of the time. The most cost effective (cheapest) thing to do is tag your kicker.

My concern is that they are doing nothing to protect Carson. You can have the best line in football, but if your receivers are not open, he is still going to get killed. Now, we have to hope that they work something out with Benson, or else we're looking at a bad running back situation as well. Tagging TJ would give them a cushion, while the young receivers developed. I'm not crazy about TJ's antics, but why not use him for one year?

[Walrus]

Well, color me firmly in the 'Mike Brown is an idiot' crowd. But, I would be o.k. with not tagging TJ if there was an actual plan. They have stated that they want to revert to a running team. If that is the case, why not tag Benson? I agree with you 100%. Cris Collinsworth often says that if something doesn't make sense, say money and you are correct 99% of the time. The most cost effective (cheapest) thing to do is tag your kicker.

Wouldn't the cheapest thing be to tag nobody?

[HAPPYJAQ]

If you tag T.J., you probably aren't able to re-sign Graham, Benson and Crocker. The Bengals should be able to re-sign all three for under the 10 million dollars that the Franchise Tag for T.J. would've cost against the cap. Figure that Benson and Crockers are argurably the leaders of the offense and defense, respectively, than it's a move you have to make.

Shayne Graham is #4 all-time in NFL Accuracy. He would've commanded Top 5 money had he reached free agency. Meanwhile, watch T.J. sign a contract that averages around 5-6 million per or so per year (including a prorated signing bonus). Effectively, in tagging T.J. the Bengals would have OVERPAID for his services by around 4 million or more.

For the one who said that we could've offered T.J. a 5 year contract for around 15 million, understand that T.J. admitted to holding out due to feeling underpaid at around 3 million per year, compared to his "peers".

Consider this: In the final three games of last season (all wins), T.J. had a combined 3 catches for 19 yards. That shows that the Bengals can win NFL games without him.

After learning that the Bengals choses not to tag him, T.J. told the media that he is "99.2 percent" sure that he won't be a Bengal next year. That should tell you that he really doesn't want to be here. Why make a guy the highest paid non-quarterback on the team, when he doesn't want to be here in the first place? Let alone, deceiving the fans who actually PAY his salary in thinking that he wants to be closer to his family and work out with his own people. Sadly, some fans overlook the offense's lack of sync and timing in the passing game that factored in and 0-forever start and point to his 92 catches and say he had a "good year", even though he averaged just under 10 yards a catch, lowest in the NFL amongst WR's.

All NFL teams, good or not-so-good, lose important players. Think Pittsburgh with Randle El and Joey Porter and even the Ravens with Peter Boulware, Adalius Thomas and others. The key is, having the next guy step up. In the drafting of Caldwell and Simpson, as well as developing the PS guys, you have to say the Bengals were prepared for this. They prepared the same way before Steinbach left in drafting Andrew Whitworth, a pick everybody hated at the time. Whit has done a good job replacing Steiny and it's no reason to think that at least one of the younger, more athletic, more versatile WR's will step up.

Ten years ago, an aging and increasingly malcontent Carl Pickens was named the Bengals' Franchise Player and eventually resigned with the Bengals later that offseason for 5 years and 23.5 million dollars, one of the richest contracts in the NFL for WR's at the time. He ended up catching 57 passes for 737 yards the following season and was released. The Bengals regretfully ate 8 million in signing him to play what would amount to 1 season under the new contract. Pickens was 29 years old.

Sound familiar?

Finally, a the Bengals make an offseason move that makes sense.

[Jet23]

Well, color me firmly in the 'Mike Brown is an idiot' crowd. But, I would be o.k. with not tagging TJ if there was an actual plan. They have stated that they want to revert to a running team. If that is the case, why not tag Benson? I agree with you 100%. Cris Collinsworth often says that if something doesn't make sense, say money and you are correct 99% of the time. The most cost effective (cheapest) thing to do is tag your kicker.

Wouldn't the cheapest thing be to tag nobody?

Not if his plan is to tag Opie for one year and let him go, instead of signing him to a long term deal. I know that doesn't make much sense, but that's pretty much what they did with Justin Smith.