Receiving Corps

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

You do know that in two seasons Adrian Petersen has rushed for 3100 yards and over 20 touchdowns right? I agree with everything you said accept that last part. AP is going to the hall of fame unless he gets Terrell Davis syndrome and washes out due to injury.

He looks pretty good, sure. But I'd like to see him try it without running behind Steve Hutchinson, who (surprise, surprise) was also the guy who made Shawn Alexander look good in Seattle. Whose departure coincided with Alexander's production falling off a cliff.

Put it this way - Mewelde Moore and Chester Taylor looked awful good the last few years in Minny too, and they ain't all-pros.

To me, it proves that a great O-line can make a chump back look like a borderline all-pro, and a good back look like an all-timer. But the reverse isn't true.

Build the line first, the rest will follow.

[derekshank]

RBs are so hit and miss too and the nature of their position regarding injuries, they can get s**t canned in the pre season.

Much more prudent to get the O-line built up and if you manage to hit on a stub RB then all the better but if you aren't able to then your running game can still win you games. Good line plus a couple from this list (leaving this year's draft crazyness aside):

Portis, Betts, Westbrook, Huggy Bear Jr., Turner, Julius Jones, Turner, Ward, Gore, Barber, Jacobs, Sproles, White, Jones-Drew, Washington, Bradshaw. Even Rudi was a 4th rounder way back when.

would do me.

Alternatively you could look at the RBs taken in the first round in the same time frame. William Green, TJ Duckett, McGahee, Larry Johnson, Steven Jackson, Chris Perry, Kevin Jones, Ronnie Brown, Benson, Cadillac Williams, The Bush you can support, Maroney, DeAngelo Williams, Addai, AD, Lynch.

2001 when LT was taken in the first round was probably the last time a truly spectacular RB was taken. In any round of the draft.

I guess it's all in how you look at it. If you're saying that only the once in a decade type RB is worth a first round pick, then fine... that's just your philosophy I guess. But RB is actually one of the least risky positions to take in the first round when you look at busts in the NFL. RB is simply put one of the least likely to bust positions.

Now, as a Bengal fan, that's a bit hard to swallow given the Bengals history with 1st round RB's, but it remains true nonetheless. Yes, RB is dangerous for injuries (Ki-Jana) Yes, busts do happen (2-carry Perry)... but as a rule, 1st round RB's are fairly safe.

Also... whether you think most 1st round RB's were worthy of where they were drafted, it is telling that 20 of 31 teams have a 1st round RB as their starter. So 2/3 of the time this wealth of talent from the 3rd and 4th round has at best managed to share time. As a rule they are not stepping into roles where they are unseating even the old washed up 1st rounders like Jamal Lewis and Edgerrin James. They merely share carries - and with lower production.

But I think I'm done hijacking this thread for the time being. We'll just leave it at we disagree on the philosophy of drafting RB's in the first round, because when it pertains to the Bengals situation this year, we're in complete agreement. No RB in the first!

[derekshank]

Put it this way - Mewelde Moore and Chester Taylor looked awful good the last few years in Minny too, and they ain't all-pros.

Not really sure what Vikings team you were watching if you though Mewelde Moore ever looked good. His best season in Minny was for 662 yards. Michael Bennett rushed for 463 that year as well. Anything but a productive running game.

The next year Taylor had a decent season racking up 11th place in rushing with 1216 yards, a decent 4.0 yards a carry, but only 6 TD's and only 6 rushes for over 20 yards.

Enter Adrian Peterson. Immediately leads the league in rushing with 1341 yards, 5.6 yards/carry, 12 TD's and 11 rushes of over 20 yards... as a rookie.

He only built on that this year by leading the league again with 1760 yards, 4.8 yards/carry, 10 TD's and 20 rushes of over 20 yards.

Minnesota is not just a good O-Line. Peterson is a beast and worth every bit of that first round selection. Taylor and Moore were garbage compared to what he's bringing to the table every week.

[BengalPimp]

None of the above, keep both. Get O-lineman ASAP!

I'm with you.

[Pidge]

You do know that in two seasons Adrian Petersen has rushed for 3100 yards and over 20 touchdowns right? I agree with everything you said accept that last part. AP is going to the hall of fame unless he gets Terrell Davis syndrome and washes out due to injury.

Oh hey, I didn't mean to suggest I don't think AD has the potential to be the next big thing at RB after LT. But he's just finished his second year. Who knows what happens? He could have his career ended in camp this off season. If he puts in 5 or 6 years like LT then no arguments from me. LT is showing signs of wear and tear (although whether they are just that or signs of the beginning of the end we don't know just yet) and he is far less confrontational than AD. AD's game means he could be out at any time, even more so than most RBs. Love watching the guy play though.

[Pidge]

I guess it's all in how you look at it. If you're saying that only the once in a decade type RB is worth a first round pick, then fine... that's just your philosophy I guess. But RB is actually one of the least risky positions to take in the first round when you look at busts in the NFL. RB is simply put one of the least likely to bust positions.

Now, as a Bengal fan, that's a bit hard to swallow given the Bengals history with 1st round RB's, but it remains true nonetheless. Yes, RB is dangerous for injuries (Ki-Jana) Yes, busts do happen (2-carry Perry)... but as a rule, 1st round RB's are fairly safe.

Also... whether you think most 1st round RB's were worthy of where they were drafted, it is telling that 20 of 31 teams have a 1st round RB as their starter. So 2/3 of the time this wealth of talent from the 3rd and 4th round has at best managed to share time. As a rule they are not stepping into roles where they are unseating even the old washed up 1st rounders like Jamal Lewis and Edgerrin James. They merely share carries - and with lower production.

But I think I'm done hijacking this thread for the time being. We'll just leave it at we disagree on the philosophy of drafting RB's in the first round, because when it pertains to the Bengals situation this year, we're in complete agreement. No RB in the first!

Fair enough and all that and you make good points. The bolded part is something I hadn't considered though. Looking at it, you're right and when the cap is involved, the money paid to first rounders comes into it. Considering the lower busr rate of RBs then yeah, prudent to go RB in the first. I still disagree with these GM types though - what do they know?

[HAPPYJAQ]

The reason the Bengals will not draft a RB, even if a franchise-type magically becomes available (which I believe Wells/Moreno are not), this is a critical year for both the HC and the owner.....and neither wants to strike out this year. again.

An OT is really the only pick, as it quiets the media and fans, while addressing an obvious need. Count me in for one that does not want to bring TJ back at anything more than a modest contract. He is a possession receiver in this offense and nothing more, and will be 32 next year. Franchising him at almost 10 million will cost the Bengals two impact starters and set the Franchise back, similar to the Justin and Andrews Franchise signings. Imagine the Bengals with two Joey Porter/Asante Samuel/Jared Allen type players on D. I think Caldwell will go down as a steal, if he is able to play next season. He is the most emplosive RAC-potential receiver since P-Dub and is already an excellent blocker. Resigning TJ also impacts the development of Simpson and the Bengals have to at least find out what they have in him in '09. Chad and Henry will be fine as starters in '09, with the two 2nd year players decent-to-good 3rd and 4th receivers. The 5th slot will likely go to Chatman or a KR/PR type, with the final slot likely to Urrutia/Purify/pick. If Caldwell showa he can return punts, this will allow the Bengals to possibly go with an extra defender/FB, which will give the team more options.

[Clackwoods]

The reason the Bengals will not draft a RB, even if a franchise-type magically becomes available (which I believe Wells/Moreno are not), this is a critical year for both the HC and the owner.....and neither wants to strike out this year. again.

An OT is really the only pick, as it quiets the media and fans, while addressing an obvious need. Count me in for one that does not want to bring TJ back at anything more than a modest contract. He is a possession receiver in this offense and nothing more, and will be 32 next year. Franchising him at almost 10 million will cost the Bengals two impact starters and set the Franchise back, similar to the Justin and Andrews Franchise signings. Imagine the Bengals with two Joey Porter/Asante Samuel/Jared Allen type players on D. I think Caldwell will go down as a steal, if he is able to play next season. He is the most emplosive RAC-potential receiver since P-Dub and is already an excellent blocker. Resigning TJ also impacts the development of Simpson and the Bengals have to at least find out what they have in him in '09. Chad and Henry will be fine as starters in '09, with the two 2nd year players decent-to-good 3rd and 4th receivers. The 5th slot will likely go to Chatman or a KR/PR type, with the final slot likely to Urrutia/Purify/pick. If Caldwell showa he can return punts, this will allow the Bengals to possibly go with an extra defender/FB, which will give the team more options.

I like your idea, but I had a revelation about what we should do this off season. I think we Trade Chad and pick up like the 16th or 17th Pick (Yes we could still get a first rounder for him). This would give us two first rounders and a high second rounder. With the picks we should do the following:

6th- Draft the best OT available.

Mid first- Draft one of the 3 stud WR's that come out, either the one from Florida, Mizzo, or Texas Tech whoever is available

2nd Round Pick- Draft the best available RB at this spot

All of this depends of course on us signing Matt Birk to a FA contract. If we don't get him then draft the best center in the second round and sign ward or wait til the third round and draft Javon Ringer

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Minnesota is not just a good O-Line. Peterson is a beast and worth every bit of that first round selection. Taylor and Moore were garbage compared to what he's bringing to the table every week.

Don't get me wrong, I think Peterson is great, but I'd like to see him running behind a guard who isn't Steve Hutchinson and see how it works out. Didn't go well for Shaun Alexander.

Anyway, if I tell you I have a draft with the best LT of a generation, and the best RB of a generation, I'll smack you upside the head with a board if you take the RB.

Only Mike Brown's that dumb.

[Clackwoods]

Minnesota is not just a good O-Line. Peterson is a beast and worth every bit of that first round selection. Taylor and Moore were garbage compared to what he's bringing to the table every week.

Don't get me wrong, I think Peterson is great, but I'd like to see him running behind a guard who isn't Steve Hutchinson and see how it works out. Didn't go well for Shaun Alexander.

Anyway, if I tell you I have a draft with the best LT of a generation, and the best RB of a generation, I'll smack you upside the head with a board if you take the RB.

Only Mike Brown's that dumb.

Shaun Alexander also got slowed because of injury and age so that is an unfair comparison. Any running back needs a great offensive line, that is a given. Look at what Emmit had in Dallas, he wouldn't have been half the back he was without that line. It takes a great player to take advantage of a great situation.

[kentjett]

Look at Barry Sanders in Detroit, he always had jack s**t for a line.

[Clackwoods]

Look at Barry Sanders in Detroit, he always had jack s**t for a line.

And that is why everyone puts him above Emmit. The only person I can't put him ahead of is Jim Brown and that is only because I didn't see him play. He is the best RB of my lifetime

[whizzo]

barry sanders was something else. also, he holds the NFL record for runs for a loss, which is probably due to the crappy line he was running behind.

[Pidge]

Yep. Ultimately a squandered talent. Had they built even a decent line then who knows?

[chrishcovga]

I say leave it alone. There's a lot of talent just like there is in every draft at the wide receiver position. Sign T.J.! Give him a 4 year to 5 year deal and call it a day. He's a great asset to the team, and teaming him next year with a healthier Chad Johnson, and 4 guys that will no longer be rookies you' could almost say the wide reciever position could be strong again. But Here's how I see it.

1. Chad Johnson

2. T.J. Houshmandzadeh

3. Chris Henry - You know he was signed to more than one year when they brought him back right..??

4. Andre Caldwell - Could challenge Henry for the 3rd spot, but should easily prove to be our punt return man.

5. Jerome Simpson - Get him returning kickoffs. Get him involved in the offense. Doesn't make sense to draft the guy based upon his athleticism, and not put him on the field.

6. Maurice Purify or Mario Urrutia. - Ok, their transition into the pros' is over! Purify is a superb athlete, and has good hands. Urrutia has decent speed but even better size. One of these guys has to earn the 6th spot, or Quan Cosby and Demetrius Byrd look real good in the later rounds.

- Antonio Chatman has to go! You have to PLAY football to be considered a football player.

- The Glenn Holt experience has faded. Time to move on.

[cincy9275]

the way i see it, what have we won with them? nothing. tj & chad does not want to be here, so why try to get them to stay?

[ArmyBengal]

Don't get me wrong, I'm sick of the Chad experience and wouldn't mind seeing him go, but to say we've won nothing with them has less to do with them and more to do with just about everything else. Yeah, Chad could have blocked more downfield and not pouted so much, but before this year, when was the defense going to even appear to make an attempt to give a sh*t about being on the field ?? It's hard to say just let your two pro bowl WR's go because they haven't done anything. However, I think we are at a point where I wouldn't mind seeing TJ stick around for a few more years and Chad traded for what we can get in picks. The uncapped year plays into all of this as well. I'm not sure about Chad's cap hit this year... Anyone know ?? I'm feeling lazy today...

[Clackwoods]

Don't get me wrong, I'm sick of the Chad experience and wouldn't mind seeing him go, but to say we've won nothing with them has less to do with them and more to do with just about everything else. Yeah, Chad could have blocked more downfield and not pouted so much, but before this year, when was the defense going to even appear to make an attempt to give a sh*t about being on the field ?? It's hard to say just let your two pro bowl WR's go because they haven't done anything. However, I think we are at a point where I wouldn't mind seeing TJ stick around for a few more years and Chad traded for what we can get in picks. The uncapped year plays into all of this as well. I'm not sure about Chad's cap hit this year... Anyone know ?? I'm feeling lazy today...

Ill tell you man I sure wouldn't mind having Larry Fitz, he is a beast!

[HoTbOy]

The WR's that we have are Beast's when healthy, CJohnson has lead the AFC in yardage the pass 4 years & TJ was tied for receptions last year...CJohnson does not get double-team damn near every game for nothing, with that said the organization if they wanted TJ, they should have been trying to work something out, look at what the Titans are doing they are trying to sign AHaynesworth now before he becomes a FA...If the Bengals do what's right and sign TJ, and if CJohnson comes back with a level head with a healthy CPalmer with or W/O a new OLman at #6 the Bengals should be dangerous next year...The WR position should be a strength going into training camp...