If Gholston, Dorsey, Long, and Ellis Are off the Board Who Is the Pick

[DesperateDerelict]

Ahhh - what do they know.

Groves played with a broken foot most of this year.

LSU coaches moved him to OLB just so he could get on the field.

Uhhhhh, I don't mean to bust your chops but Groves played for Auburn, not LSU.

What the he!! - a tiger is a tiger is a tiger.

" Q has his share of faults as well

see http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingr...ntingroves.html

I've been reading some of Scott Wright's scouting reports, and he's ridiculous. Points to ponder -

1) He has ONE elite prospect - and only about a dozen with 1st round grades

2) Everybody is either "not athletic enough" for their position, or a workout warrior

3) All athletes are bashed for not being football players

4) All football players are bashed for not being athletes

I'd have to put this guy in the same bucket as Todd McFraud - little or no film study, dependent on others for their opinion.

[HairOnFire]

Balmer didn't do anything to help himself at the combine - he's a definite reach at #9. Alot of people are high on Derrick Harvey, where I would prefer the "Q", Quentin Groves (4.54 forty at 257 lbs, with 37 reps at 225lbs!!! That's SICK!!!)

And I'll argue that Balmer is no more of a reach at #9 than Quentin Groves. In fact, probably less.

This draft is shaking out like most drafts, with a dozen or so comparably ranked prospects trailing the 5 or 6 blue chips, and there simply isn't very much seperation between any of the prospects within the 2nd tier group. As a result, where those prospects in the 2nd tier are being ranked is being determined as much by the need of the teams drafting between 5 and 20 as any pure ranking of their talent.

Granted, being unable to work out at the combine has hurt Balmer, as it prevents him from building the same type of hype and buzz as other workout warriors. But c'mon now....didn't we already know Darren McFadden was fast? Weren't we all expecting Vernon Gholsten to be more impressive with the pads off than with them on? And couldn't we all guess that a Sedrick Ellis wouldn't be hurt by a poor time in the 40-yard dash?

Reaches? I'm betting the Bengals could select Balmer at #9 without a single gasp of suprise being uttered by the Mel Kiper's of the world.

[HairOnFire]

Ahhh - what do they know.

Groves played with a broken foot most of this year.

LSU coaches moved him to OLB just so he could get on the field.

Uhhhhh, I don't mean to bust your chops but Groves played for Auburn, not LSU.

What the he!! - a tiger is a tiger is a tiger.

Perhaps, but I still think you'd be well served to adjust your rant a little bit.

[DesperateDerelict]

This draft is shaking out like most drafts, with a dozen or so comparably ranked prospects trailing the 5 or 6 blue chips, and there simply isn't very much seperation between any of the prospects within the 2nd tier group.

If this draft is so similar to prior drafts, albeit deeper at CB, WR, DE/OLB tweeners& RB - then where are the 'zoomers'? Those players that come from the middle of the 2nd tier to the top 8? (see Manny Lawson, Amobi Okoye, etc.)

Speculation on who (else) can crash the top 10 -

LOCKS: C.Long, J.Long, Dorsey, Ellis, M.Ryan, D.McFadden, & Gholston

Those with the Best Chance of Zooming:

Mendenhall (RB) - gaining elite status

Rodgers-Cromartie (CB) - wowed them at the combine

McKelvin (CB) - another small school DB that can jump into the top 10

Outside Top 10, but close: Clady, Williams (OT), Rivers, Groves (LB), Jenkins (CB), Stewart (RB) and Phillips (S)

Unfortunately, no LB or D-Lineman (or WR or QB) increased their value tremendously at the combine, although Flacco (QB), Harvey (DE), Smith & Cason (CBs) cemented themselves as top 20 talents.

Since the Bengals are nutty enough to pick a RB, and New Orleans DESPERATELY needs a shutdown corner, I believe Mike & Marvin's phone will ring ALOT. Possible trading partners: Detroit, Arizona, Minnesota, & Houston (picks 15 - 18), all of whom need CBs, and 2 (Cards & Texans) who need a RB.

Reaches? I'm betting the Bengals could select Balmer at #9 without a single gasp of suprise being uttered by the Mel Kiper's of the world.

On the contrary - they will be second guessed no matter what they do - unless a top DL falls to them.

[Spor_tees]

I think if given the situation the Bengals would take Merling over Balmer or Groves. I do truly believe that things will shake lose at the top of the draft so that one of the top guys, Chris Long, Dorsey, Ellis, or Gholston will fall to the Bengals giving them one of the top defensive linemen in the draft.

Miami is going to take Jake Long

St. Louis will take Chris Long

Falcons take Glen Dorsey

Oakland takes McFadden

Kansas City takes Matt Ryan

Jets take DeSean Jackson

Patriots take Mike Jenkins

Ravens take Gholston (Once again the Bengals get screwed by the team in front of them taking the guy they want)

Bengals end up with Ellis

That's how I see it.

[DesperateDerelict]

I think if given the situation the Bengals would take Merling over Balmer or Groves ......

Bengals end up with Ellis

That's how I see it.

You going 3 - 4 or 4 - 3 ?? (With your preference for Merling, I'm assuming 3 - 4).

If so, is Ellis your (undersized) NT or (oversized) DE?

In the 2nd & 3rd - you going OLB / NT or LDE / OLB ???

[Spor_tees]

I think if given the situation the Bengals would take Merling over Balmer or Groves ......

Bengals end up with Ellis

That's how I see it.

You going 3 - 4 or 4 - 3 ?? (With your preference for Merling, I'm assuming 3 - 4).

If so, is Ellis your (undersized) NT or (oversized) DE?

In the 2nd & 3rd - you going OLB / NT or LDE / OLB ???

Ellis is the Sapp like NT in a 3-4 and you go after a guy like Trevor Laws in the second round to play DE. I really would like to see the Bengals trade back up into the 2nd round and take Curtis Lofton too. I think that would solidify the defense with those 3 picks.

[HairOnFire]

If this draft is so similar to prior drafts, albeit deeper at CB, WR, DE/OLB tweeners& RB - then where are the 'zoomers'? Those players that come from the middle of the 2nd tier to the top 8?

They've already zoomed.

Consider this. When we first started discussing the draft the two players I began pimping for the #9 slot were Sedrick Ellis and Chris Long. Both players were quickly labeled as reaches by posters who presumably held in their hands the earliest mock drafts. Ellis was said to be dramatically inferior to Glenn Dorsey and a likely Top 20 pick. Long was said to be inferior to Calais Campbell and unworthy of Top 10 consideration.

So how's that shaking out now?

Long has emerged as a Top 5 pick whose chances of being picked 1st overall are as good as anyones. Meanwhile, Sedrick Elllis has also emerged as a likely Top 5 pick and it's no longer notable to see position rankings that have him higher than Dorsey.

As for the potential "Late Zoomers"...IMHO they fall into two groups. Those who are healthy enough to create a buzz at the combine, and those who find themselves dinged. Balmer fits squarely into the last group so it's fair to say he hasn't zoomed one bit. That said, my feelings about him were formed long before the combine began, and as a result I see no reason to drop him from consideration simply because he couldn't compete in a glorified track event.

Bottom Line: In my opinion Balmer remains exactly where I had him previously. That being, in the mix and on the fringe....with a half dozen other dark colored horses.

[Kazkal]

I think if given the situation the Bengals would take Merling over Balmer or Groves ......

Bengals end up with Ellis

That's how I see it.

You going 3 - 4 or 4 - 3 ?? (With your preference for Merling, I'm assuming 3 - 4).

If so, is Ellis your (undersized) NT or (oversized) DE?

In the 2nd & 3rd - you going OLB / NT or LDE / OLB ???

Ellis is the Sapp like NT in a 3-4 and you go after a guy like Trevor Laws in the second round to play DE. I really would like to see the Bengals trade back up into the 2nd round and take Curtis Lofton too. I think that would solidify the defense with those 3 picks.

Dunno How I'd feel about Ellis in the 3-4 he seems abit light for NT and abit short for DE,

IMO he's just best suited for 4-3 and if we did get him would not mind sticking to it at all.