ntpou Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 No way was C.Perry the best available player in the 1st RD. The best available players were on the defense side. Take your pick they were all available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Actually the best player available was Steven Jackson. Once Marcus Tubbs went off the board, I think running back was the best pick, just not the best player.. * Front office and Coaching staff should have gotten more to give up S.Jackson ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kchrpm Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Best available on their draft board, not ours or anyone elses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpou Posted April 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 What happened to J.Grove, K.Dansby or Gamble at this pick all were ranked higher or equal to Perry on most draft boards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Best available on their draft board, not ours or anyone elses. that's the key, right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 WOW!! Didn't know we had so many people in the Bengals War Room looking at their draft board!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 Yes, that's what fans do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpou Posted April 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 I just don't believe we took the best talent. I like Perry but we could have got him or another back later in draft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princeton Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 the best indicator that a team has taken the best available comes when a team drafts a guy that it doesn't really need. For instance, had the Bengals taken a WR at no. 2 (LSU's Devery Henderson looked GREAT there), it would have been a definite BA pick. Me, I like going BA at least into the second round, because IIRC some of the Bengals' best picks in the past have been BA's at lesser needs that were drafted in the second round-- Esiason, CJohnson, Steinbach, Dillon. Henderson might have been another.But that's of course not the optimal situation. It's better when the BA happens to match a clear team need. That happened a LOT in the 2003 draft. The '04 Bengals had fewer needs, so it didn't happen as often. Askew in the 4th round and Brooks in the sixth are examples when it did. Nice picks-- but they're still low round talents. Hopefully one of 'em works outThe BA strategy can be confusing because different teams rank different players as BA. St Louis, for instance, thought that Steven Jackson was the BA player. Clearly the Bengals did notWhen you draft for need, there's always the temptation to really reach. Did the Bengals reach too far for Ratliff or with Perry, both of whom are at a perceived need position but neither of whom is particularly fast? Maybe. Were there better players at non-need positions still available? ProbablyMann at no. 5 seems like a BA pick. The rest fit perceived needs. As mentioned above, Askew and Brooks were the jackpot picks of BAs that happened to fill needs.Paul Brown: "You draft for need and don't anyone tell you different". Unless of course you see Esiason or Dillon or Chad Johnson still on the board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 I just don't believe we took the best talent. I like Perry but we could have got him or another back later in draft They got the best players that mix with this team the best. Lets all move on now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indycat Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 Ok I have had enough of the uninformed Chris Perry bashing because he went to Michigan or because people believe Steven Jackson was better despite the fact that Marvin Lewis and Bill Parcells didn't. So here are the actual numbers (I included Jones also) TALE OF THE FACTS Lifting 225 lbs = Perry had the highest with 19 reps (Jones 18, Jackson 16) Board Jump = Perry had the longest 10.4 feet (Jones 10.0, Jackson 9.10) 20 yard shuttle = Perry was quickest 4.08 (Jackson 4.09, Jones 4.10) 3 cone drill = Perry was quickest 7.02 (Jackson 7.03, Jones 7.17) The 40 yard dash = Perry 4.56 Jackson 4.55 Jones 4.61 Furthermore Lets look at College production Perry = (2 years) rushed for 3,696 / 39 touchdowns Jackson = (3 years) rushed for 3,625 / 39 touchdowns Perry was also the * Big Ten Conference’s Most Valuable Player * Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year (coaches and media) * Doak Walker Award winner (nation’s top running back) * Heisman Trophy finalist You can believe your 6 dollar draft guide or Glossy head Mel Kiper if you want to, But I personally will trust the opinion of a head coach who studied them on film, met them in person, and contemplated who was best for the team = Marvin Lewis. "You are entitiled to your own opinions but not your own facts" !Wish I could take credit for this posting but I got it from Jungle Talk by a poster named blackjesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princeton Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 I think that it's fair to question any choice. I questioned the selection of Akili Smith over Champ Bailey A LOTOTOH, I also heard the catcalls of reaching for Levi Jones over Phillip Buchanon. Maybe there was a way to move down and get Jones, but it's six of one, half a dozen there.The good thing is that now we get to see if the present braintrust knows more about such things than did those that selected Akili Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 It's not just about facts... It's about pedigree. It's about past failures. It's about weighed value.I can't blame the Cowboys for trading down, because The Bills mortaged their future on the 4th best quarterback in the draft.It wasn't like the Cowboys didn't try to trade back up to get Kevin Jones ,because they did without any takers !Leroy Hoard,Tim Biakabatuka,Anthony Thomas,Tyrone Wheatley, a whole bunch of Michigan players that had high grades or were high draft picks that simply didn't pan out ! - There's no doubting Chris Perry's athletic skills, but every number that I see there is as comparable or lesser than his rival draft picks! Hmm... I want a power running game.. So I choose a 5'11 3/4 224 lb. guy over a back that's 6'21/2 241 lbs. that's just as fast ?? Oh , and I take him in the first round to .....back up? Either it's an insurance pick, or a "mikey" pick to force Rudi's contract situation plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle_Fever Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 I take him in the first round to .....back up? Either it's an insurance pick, or a "mikey" pick to force Rudi's contract situation plain and simple. I agree (doesnt mean too much since I have the football knowledge of someone's girlfriend). The pick in the first round doesnt jive unless ML just doesnt see Rudi as the long term solution. I'm still grappling with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonFnKitna Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 Steven Jackson is not better then Chris Perry. The bengals had their board the right way, this is how i have the top 5 rookie RBs.1. Kevin Jones2. Chris Perry3. Tatum Bell4. Steven Jackson5. Julies Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsDieHard1 Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 After a little thought, I like the Chris Perry pick. It's the next 4 I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengals4ever Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 You don't like the Williams pick at Safety? Who would you have went with, Sean Jones or Matt Ware? Or one of the DTs that were still out there like Dockett, Starks or Washington? I hope you were not wanting Poole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Leroy Hoard,Tim Biakabatuka,Anthony Thomas,Tyrone Wheatley, a whole bunch of Michigan players that had high grades or were high draft picks that simply didn't pan out ! - There's no doubting Chris Perry's athletic skills, but every number that I see there is as comparable or lesser than his rival draft picks!Tim B. was hurt, A-train has done pretty good (2 1,000 yard seasons), Wheatley has been a key player in Oakland. You can't classify a single player from a school that historically hasn't had great running backs; there's too much generalizing there.Oh , and I take him in the first round to .....back up? Either it's an insurance pick, or a "mikey" pick to force Rudi's contract situation plain and simple.Hell, he could be the starter. I like Rudi and all, but if Perry has better talent and ability, I hope he's the starter.After a little thought, I like the Chris Perry pick. It's the next 4 I don't.Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Ok Kirk, prove me wrong... The next "great" Penn St. runningback, tell the Bengals to draft them in the first round.I mean after guys like, Blair Thomas, Kijana Carter, Curtis Enis, and one other back I'm trying to remember how could we go wrong... Despite A-Train's success in Chicago.. he's not a particularly team favorite. They paid 12 million for backup Thomas Jones to replace him. Tim Biakabatuka struggled with minor injuries and major injuries and an even bigger fumbling problem. Tyrone Wheatley and Leroy Hoard never lived up their college billing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Ok Kirk, prove me wrong... The next "great" Penn St. runningback, tell the Bengals to draft them in the first round.Why would we want to do this, we already two very good running backs. And I thought we were talking about Michigan.Despite A-Train's success in Chicago.. he's not a particularly team favorite. They paid 12 million for backup Thomas Jones to replace him.Ever get the feeling many NFL teams are stockpiling on very good talent recently? I mean after guys like, Blair Thomas, Kijana Carter, Curtis Enis, and one other back I'm trying to remember how could we go wrong...How are you going from Michigan to PSU? Are we discussing conferences or teams? I never thought PSU brought in good running backs, they do have very good full backs but the NFL has tended to move away from that system. They also create good linemen and defensive players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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