Jump to content
TJJackson

2021 Overall Draft Grade

Recommended Posts

I have to be out the door soon to ref some youth soccer games, so I will post my overall thoughts later, maybe this evening

so......whats your grade on the Bengals draft?  and why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really can’t come up with a grade.  Mostly in the wait and see mode.   
 

I think they were gifted Chase because of 9ers and Dolphin buffoonery.  National media not calling either team out. 
 

Glad Bengals could take advantage.   
 

Other than that like the positional break down

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A draft ,  because they hammered both lines in ways they literally never have and I never have to hear TJ complain again about giving him a lineman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those who care what Mel thinks, he gave us a B:

The Bengals were in a great spot with the No. 5 overall pick, because they have their quarterback of the future, unlike the teams that had the four picks in front of them. Joe Burrow is their guy. Would they go with Burrow's buddy Ja'Marr Chase, an elite receiver? Or maybe Penei Sewell, a tremendous linemen who could be the team's left tackle for the next 10 years? They also could have traded down to pick up more premium picks for a team trying to get one of the leftover top quarterbacks.

In the end, they went with Chase, the 2019 Biletnikoff Award winner who makes this offense must-see TV. He had 1,780 receiving yards and caught 20 touchdown passes from Burrow in 2019 before opting out of last season. Burrow now has Chase, Tee Higgins, Tyler Boyd and Joe Mixon as good -- and young -- playmakers around him, though the Bengals still need to upgrade at tight end. This is a group that can grow together and should terrify defensive coordinators.

On Day 2, Cincinnati traded down and took Trevor Lawrence's college left tackle Jackson Carman (46), who coach Zac Taylor will have compete for one of the starting guard spots. It was high for Carman on my board. He dealt with a back injury during the pre-draft process, and there were better linemen available. I even think D'Ante Smith (139) could be better in the long-term. The organization did well in the trade, though, adding pick Nos. 122 and 139 -- the pick that yielded Smith -- for moving down eight spots.

Edge rusher Joseph Ossai (69) adds to a young defensive end rotation that was boosted in free agency by the signing of Trey Hendrickson. Ossai is a speed rusher who never quits on plays, and he should get plenty of third-down snaps as a rookie. Cameron Sample (111) is a hulking defensive end who is totally different physically than Ossai. Could he move inside to tackle? Tyler Shelvin (122) is a massive two-down nose tackle, which makes me wonder about the future of D.J. Reader in Cincinnati. The Bengals got my top-ranked kicker Evan McPherson (149) and could have a steal in my third-ranked center Trey Hill (190).

I don't see how Chase fails in the NFL, barring injury, which means this long-term grade for this class could come down to whether Carman turns into a quality starter. It's no sure thing. Osaai and Sample are solid picks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

For those who care what Mel thinks, he gave us a B:

The Bengals were in a great spot with the No. 5 overall pick, because they have their quarterback of the future, unlike the teams that had the four picks in front of them. Joe Burrow is their guy. Would they go with Burrow's buddy Ja'Marr Chase, an elite receiver? Or maybe Penei Sewell, a tremendous linemen who could be the team's left tackle for the next 10 years? They also could have traded down to pick up more premium picks for a team trying to get one of the leftover top quarterbacks.

In the end, they went with Chase, the 2019 Biletnikoff Award winner who makes this offense must-see TV. He had 1,780 receiving yards and caught 20 touchdown passes from Burrow in 2019 before opting out of last season. Burrow now has Chase, Tee Higgins, Tyler Boyd and Joe Mixon as good -- and young -- playmakers around him, though the Bengals still need to upgrade at tight end. This is a group that can grow together and should terrify defensive coordinators.

On Day 2, Cincinnati traded down and took Trevor Lawrence's college left tackle Jackson Carman (46), who coach Zac Taylor will have compete for one of the starting guard spots. It was high for Carman on my board. He dealt with a back injury during the pre-draft process, and there were better linemen available. I even think D'Ante Smith (139) could be better in the long-term. The organization did well in the trade, though, adding pick Nos. 122 and 139 -- the pick that yielded Smith -- for moving down eight spots.

Edge rusher Joseph Ossai (69) adds to a young defensive end rotation that was boosted in free agency by the signing of Trey Hendrickson. Ossai is a speed rusher who never quits on plays, and he should get plenty of third-down snaps as a rookie. Cameron Sample (111) is a hulking defensive end who is totally different physically than Ossai. Could he move inside to tackle? Tyler Shelvin (122) is a massive two-down nose tackle, which makes me wonder about the future of D.J. Reader in Cincinnati. The Bengals got my top-ranked kicker Evan McPherson (149) and could have a steal in my third-ranked center Trey Hill (190).

I don't see how Chase fails in the NFL, barring injury, which means this long-term grade for this class could come down to whether Carman turns into a quality starter. It's no sure thing. Osaai and Sample are solid picks.

Not much to disagree with though the B does not quite add up. Carman is the only pick I really would have preferred another player. I agree with Mem. They hammered the lines like never before. Good on them. And a kicker just for kicks. Ha. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is my perspective, if anyone cares.

I give the Bengals a solid B+, the reason for a relatively low grade is in a word uncertainty. The Bengals are banking hard on guys becoming better pros than college players and there is some evidence to back that position.  If you go simply on college production this is a very meh draft, maybe a C.  Here is my breakdown of the drafted players.

1 (5): Ja'Marr Chase, WR, LSU:  PFF Prospect Overall Rank 6 (first of the WR class), Dane Brugler Overall Rank 4 (first of the WR class)

Everyone on this board knows how I feel about Chase, so I am not going to rehash this argument again.  I have him graded as the best overall WR prospect in the last 5 years.  A faster / more athletic version of DeAndre Hopkins or DeVonte Adams which is high praise.  I think the single greatest need for this offense, in the wake of AJ and Ross and Erickson's departure, was a WR that can win at all levels of the defense, this is something they have not had since....well...I guess Chad and AJ would be the closest but even they did not have Chase's athleticism. Chase opens the field for Higgins, Tate, and Boyd to be their best selves.  He also forces defenses to guard the entire field which should open up the LoS for Mixon.  All this being said without mention that he has two years experience playing with his Pro QB and they made sweet music together on the playing field in 2019.

Pick Grade: A

2 (46): Jackson Carman, G/T, Clemson:  PFF Prospect Overall Rank 48 (10th best Tackle), Dane Brugler Overall Rank 90 (8 best Guard)

If they would have taken Carman at #38 without gaining draft capital I would have been critical of this pick.  However, they eschewed normal Bengals draft philosophy and traded down to a spot they could ensure they would get their man and still pickup needed additional impactful picks (anything for me past Rd. 5 is not impactful because the hit rate on those picks is laughably low).  With this said, the Bengals did their homework, identified the guy that they wanted, manuevered the draft to get him at the right spot and maximized draft position.  As a prospect Carman is a projection.  He has never played Guard in his life.  He has never graded (per PFF) above an 80 for an entire season in college.  He was a 5 star recruit and the top prep recruit from Ohio in his draft class.  He has the tools and athleticism to be great.  He seems to be a very bright kid and he is enthusiastic about getting better at his craft.  Carman had minor back surgery after the season in 2021 which caused him to miss much of the evaluation season, I believe this is the reason for the relatively low prospect grade.  Carman was called a first round pick by Paul Alexander and Willie Anderson when prompted which, combined with Pollack's grade, is enough to convince me that he is a great pick for the Bengals especially when considering they obtained two 4th round picks for sliding back to take him.

Pick Grade: A

3 (69):  Joseph Ossai, OLB/Edge, Texas: PFF Prospect Overall Rank 60 (9th best Edge), Dane Brugler Overall Rank 46 (8th best Edge)

Two things with this pick.  One...I wanted them to take another Offensive Lineman here.  Two...I watched alot of Teven Jenkins tape and the Okla. St./ Texas game was shown prominently where Jenkins used Ossai as his own personal floormat.  On one play he took Ossai from the line of scrimmage and pushed him 10 yards away from the LOS and then continued to push him 5 yards out of bounds.  Since Jenkins is the one of the few top tier lineman Ossai faced, I am concerned about his ability to win at the next level.  Athletically Ossai is everything you want in an Edge.  He is smart, aggressive, hard working, his Relative Athletic Score of 9.49 is elite and his AIM score is the best of this Edge class.  I will admit I am holding my breath to see if he can take his athleticism and win in the NFL.  Mostly I am still stinging that the Bengals did not use this pick to further solidify the offensive line.  Brady Christensen, Wyatt Davis, Kendrick Green, Spencer Brown, Ben Cleveland, Quinn Meinerz, and James Hudson were all taken between Ossai's pick and the next Bengals pick in the 4th round.  Particularly with Meinerz, Davis and Green on the board I would rather them have drafted a lineman here.

Pick Grade: B-

4 (111): Cam Sample, 3 Technique/Edge, Tulane: PFF Prospect Overall Rank 88 Overall (13th best Edge), Dane Brugler Overall Rank -- (Brugler only grades up to 100 in his big board) 18th Best Edge

I love Cam Sample's versatility, he can win on the Edge, he can win inside at 3 Technique.  Reading between the tea leaves, I think the Bengals envision Sample to play the Geno Atkins role on the defense i.e. Interior Disruptor.  Sample was the defensive MVP of the Senior Bowl eliminating (at least for me) any concerns I had about level of competition.  I love this pick.

Pick Grade: A

4 (122): Tyler Shelvin, NT, LSU: PFF Prospect Overall Rank 116 Overall (10th best IDL), Dane Brugler Position Rank 12th among IDL

This pick confuses me.  They have DJ Reader signed to a relatively long contract, Reader is the same kinda player and plays the same role in the defense.  I am guessing this was the pick because they were concerned that Reader could be injury prone and last year they had noone else to plug is.  Love the Belichek story about him calling out #72 as a must have future Patriot.  Did not play college football last year because of concerns regarding COVID but was a key cog in the LSU Defensive Line during their Championship run in 2019.  No doubting his ability, it just seems like a high pick for an insurance policy.

Pick Grade: C+

4 (139): D'Ante Smith, T, East Carolina: PFF Prospect Overall Rank 179 (19th best Tackle), Dane Brugler Position Rank 11 (86 overall)

Yup, Brugler actually had Smith ranked higher than second round pick Carman, PFF not so much.  This pick is all about what might be.  This kid only played 78 snaps in 2020 but started as a true freshman in 2018 and 2019.  All of his college snaps came at LT which is definitely his natural position.  He actually weighed in at his pro day at 295 which is hella light in todays game.  He is an explosive athlete (113" broad jump) with long arms (35") and fluid movement but he is RAW, his  overall season grades were 63.8 in 2018, 71 in 2019, and (admittedly only one game) 64.8 in 2020...at East Carolina!  He needs to gain 20 lbs of muscle before he sees the field in the NFL, he has the frame to handle it but can he add muscle without losing the flexibility and movement skills that makes him special....no one knows.  Could be a home run, could be a strikeout, again lots of uncertainity.

Pick Grade: C

5 (149): Evan McPherson, K, Florida: PFF Prospect Overall Rank N/A (PFF doesn't grade specialists), Dane Brugler Position Rank 1

Did the Bengals need a high level kicker, yes.  Does this guy fit the bill, his tape is strong but who knows.  Kicker is THE most volatile position to give a prospect grade.  No one knows if, when the lights are on and you are playing in the NFL, you are Justin Tucker or Austin Seibert.  I am going to give this grade an incomplete because only time will tell if this was a brilliant pick or a catastrophic one.

Pick Grade: Incomplete

6 (190): Trey Hill, C/G, Georgia: PFF Prospect Overall Rank 266 (8th best Center), Dane Brugler Position Rank 8

This is the pick that they had to take because they did not take an offensive line prospect at 69.  I know very little about Hill, he was completely off my radar screen coming into the draft.  I have read some reports (after the draft) that he is a really good guard prospect, that he is a tough, strong, smart football player whose best is yet to come, others?  Meh.  Guys that I trust have said that Trey Hill is a major reach at this position, so for me it is a reach of a pick at a position of need.

Pick Grade: C-

6 (202): Chris Evans, RB, Michigan: PFF Prospect Overall Rank 106 (7th best RB), Dane Brugler Position Rank 14

Evans evaluation is all over the map.  He missed all of 2019 to academic cheating (which he acknowledged and owned).  In 2020 he needed to win back his job (which Harbaugh did not make easy) and he only got 16 rushing attempts in 2020 (with 10 targets in the passing game of which he caught 9).  Evans 2018 tape was very promising with 423 yards and 4 TDs rushing on 81 attempts (5.2 YPC) and 18 catches on 19 targets for an additional 148 yards. Athletically this is a slam dunk.  His RAS Score of 9.85 was the second highest of the drafted RBs (behind Kene Nwangwu) ahead of Travis Etienne, Michael Carter, and Javonte Williams.  Evans runs good routes and is an easy catcher of the football in the passing game.  He is a very capable blocker as well and has the size to stand up in the passing game (5'11" 211 lbs).  He was initially recruited as a slot receiver to Michigan.  This pick is all guesswork, his body of work suggests he shouldn't be drafted but his measurables suggest he is a second round talent.  At this point in the draft it is a risk worth taking.

Pick Grade: B+

7 (235):  Wyatt Hubert, Edge, Kansas St:  PFF Prospect Overall Rank - Not ranked in the top 300, Dane Brugler Position Rank 34

Middling Production from a middling athlete (5.99 RAS) at a middling program who has a big time attitude.  This pick screams Practice Squad.  With 14 d lineman on the roster right now (15 with Kerrigan) Hubert has next to no chance to make the final 53 but he is worth a flier at pick 235 because he is a reported football junkie and a great hair on fire persona.

Pick Grade: Meh (let's face it, no 7th round selection is going to make or break your draft)

Notable UDCFA:

Pooka Williams, RB, Kansas - had a very draftable grade by both PFF and Dan Brugler (153rd overall by PFF). He is a Gio Bernard clone, quick, fast, small has a chance to stick

Pro Wells, TE, Texas Christian - Also had a draftable grade from PFF...short, slow, TE who can do a little of everything.  I don't even see him as a PS

Drew Christman, P, Ohio State - Was Dane Brugler's 4 best graded Punter, could stick...Hubert is getting old.

This is the clip of Teven Jenkins murdering Joseph Ossai.

https://youtu.be/dw5E8Pks17g

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not Nugent but Huber.  I like your breakdown.  I think Ossai should have been an Oline pick and not def line .  The rest of the draft I am still wondering if it deserves an A or B.  There’s been so much roster turnover the last 3 years makes the tea leaves harder to see 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the Bengals came out of the 2020 draft with one clear message-- their number one pick in 2021 was going to have to be a left tackle. Nothing that happened in the 2020 regular season did anything to change that message

they ignored the obvious, and the Bengals come out of the 2021 draft with the same clear message-- their number one pick in 2022 is going to have to be a left tackle. The Riley Reiff/Jonah Williams tandem remind me of the Eric Winston/Andrew Whitworth pairing, except that Jonah ain't no Whit

The hope is that with Ja'Marr Chase, they have their Michael Irvin to go with their Troy Aikman (Joe Burrows) and their Emmitt Smith (Joe Mixon). It's a delicious thought. But I'd have traded down with Detroit and added a third rounder, then likely drafted Sewell in the first and a guard (Wyatt Davis or Quinn Meinerz) with the extra third. In the second round, I'd have picked the other LSU receiver, who's certainly no Michael Irvin

In the fifth, I really really hope that McPherson a good kicker, not just because of the clear need but also because there was a DT, Daviyon Nixon, and we'd have never seen Margus Hunt again. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What the fuck?

could not possibly disagree with your eval on Williams more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, membengal said:

What the fuck?

could not possibly disagree with your eval on Williams more.

It was a sentence, hardly an evaluation....what exactly do you disagree with?  He is 5'9" 170 lbs so he is definitely small, his 10 and 20 yard splits are in the 90th percentile so he is quick and fast in short bursts.  I will admit however I have spent 0 time breaking down his tape.  I figured that the domestic violence issue would have taken him off our board.  In the last two drafts we have been aggressive about eliminate potential character issues.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Wraith said:

It was a sentence, hardly an evaluation....what exactly do you disagree with?  He is 5'9" 170 lbs so he is definitely small, his 10 and 20 yard splits are in the 90th percentile so he is quick and fast in short bursts.  I will admit however I have spent 0 time breaking down his tape.  I figured that the domestic violence issue would have taken him off our board.  In the last two drafts we have been aggressive about eliminate potential character issues.

 

?

I was not commenting on you. I was commenting on Princeton saying that we NEED a LT because Williams basically sucks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Mem is referring to Jonah Williams and the declaration that the Bengals must get a LT out of the 2021 draft.  Then the declaration that its already a must for 2022.

I personally think Jonah Williams has potential to be a high graded starter to elite starter at LT.    Getting on and staying on the field is his first hurdle. 

Clearly his lack of snaps/starts is injury related BUT also a victim of circumstance due to the overall season.  I think its been thrown out there in both years Williams could have been on the field in 2019 and 2020 if there was something to play for.

As for his performance.   Fans forget how difficult it was for Levi Jones and Whitworth in their first few starts.  IMO, on a limited sample Williams looks more competent than both Jones and Whit in the first few starts.  That's not suggest any of the 3 were "bad" they just weren't All Pros when they stepped on the field in their first starts.

Munoz and Willie Anderson were. 

RT is what the Bengals could be looking for next year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Wraith said:

It was a sentence, hardly an evaluation....what exactly do you disagree with?  He is 5'9" 170 lbs so he is definitely small, his 10 and 20 yard splits are in the 90th percentile so he is quick and fast in short bursts.  I will admit however I have spent 0 time breaking down his tape.  I figured that the domestic violence issue would have taken him off our board.  In the last two drafts we have been aggressive about eliminate potential character issues.

 

more likely he's taking exception to my statement that Jonah Williams is no Andrew Whitworth. 

I didn't watch the Ossai/Jenkins tape that you mentioned. Pretty bad, eh? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, membengal said:

 

The only reason its not 7 because they took the best kicker. 

I'm not into predictions but getting a slew of top 150 guys is what they've done the entire offseason and its what was needed.

Its what Marvin immediately did in his first two years. 

Now its a wait and see for me.   This coaching staff has no more "talent" excuses.  Time to get them to perform.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, princeton said:

more likely he's taking exception to my statement that Jonah Williams is no Andrew Whitworth. 

I didn't watch the Ossai/Jenkins tape that you mentioned. Pretty bad, eh? 

Note:  Many Bengal fans swore up and down that Whitworth was guard for YEARS.   It was based on him struggling early at LT when Levi's knees finally wore down in 2008.  I think Trent Cole abused him for 3 sacks in a game.  That impression lasted for years. 

As a matter of fact IF it weren't for the NFL giving access to the All-22 allowing for products such PFF to thrive, you would have been laughed at on message boards for merely suggesting Whitworth was in the class of Joe Thomas as he grew and excelled at LT.   

It took alot of PFF (or similar products) pimping before Bengal fans started to realize his elite status at LT. 

Levi Jones suffered a lot too in fan perception.   First he was considered a "reach" on draft day.  Then gave up a big game sealing sack to Freeney as a rookie.  What was overlooked was how confident the coaching staff was letting him deal on the edge 1v1 and the depth of drops.

IMO, he never got credit for being the best LT in 2005.   Unfortunately his knee issues never gave him longevity to prove it out. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought Williams played fine last season all things considered. The challenge is that he’s played like 10 games in two years at a time when he desperately needs pro reps. I think he’s poised for a jump this year if he can finally stay healthy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think folks in the fanbase and the media drastically undersell Riley Reiff too. He might not be incredible, but he’s damned solid. If he only ends up here for one year then it won’t be the end of the world. The Bengals have given themselves options.

1) Carman kicks out

2) They draft an RT in 2022

3) They sign an RT in 2022

That’s assuming we don’t see another pickup before preseason and ignores Hakeem Adeniji, who I quite like. And I don’t think extending/resigning Reiff is impossible if he plays up to last season’s form.

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also think that a lot of folks are sleeping on just how excellent a pick D'Ante Smith was. He's a PERFECT developmental RT. Had excellent length and feet. I can't wait for him to spend a year learning from Reiff. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Stripes said:

I think folks in the fanbase and the media drastically undersell Riley Reiff too. He might not be incredible, but he’s damned solid. If he only ends up here for one year then it won’t be the end of the world. The Bengals have given themselves options.

1) Carman kicks out

2) They draft an RT in 2022

3) They sign an RT in 2022

That’s assuming we don’t see another pickup before preseason and ignores Hakeem Adeniji, who I quite like. And I don’t think extending/resigning Reiff is impossible if he plays up to last season’s form.

Agreed.  Carman is our RT  for the future IMHO.  Reiff is a VERY solid player and is durable, I think Williams development has been retarded by our oline coaching.  This is the year Williams breaks out IMHO.  Very positive about the oline starting 2021, wasn't the case this time last year.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

Note:  Many Bengal fans swore up and down that Whitworth was guard for YEARS.   It was based on him struggling early at LT when Levi's knees finally wore down in 2008.  I think Trent Cole abused him for 3 sacks in a game.  That impression lasted for years. 

As a matter of fact IF it weren't for the NFL giving access to the All-22 allowing for products such PFF to thrive, you would have been laughed at on message boards for merely suggesting Whitworth was in the class of Joe Thomas as he grew and excelled at LT.   

It took alot of PFF (or similar products) pimping before Bengal fans started to realize his elite status at LT. 

Levi Jones suffered a lot too in fan perception.   First he was considered a "reach" on draft day.  Then gave up a big game sealing sack to Freeney as a rookie.  What was overlooked was how confident the coaching staff was letting him deal on the edge 1v1 and the depth of drops.

IMO, he never got credit for being the best LT in 2005.   Unfortunately his knee issues never gave him longevity to prove it out. 

 

Whit was an iron man (and still is); Jonah lacks Lap's most valued ability: availability. Bengals needed an upgrade and didn't get it. Look out, Joe Burrows

I was interested in Colts' Chris Ballard saying that he didn't draft a LT, in spite of the team's extreme need, because it was a good draft for right tackles but not for left tackles. Top LTs, and even pretty good LTs, are rare

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Stripes said:

I think folks in the fanbase and the media drastically undersell Riley Reiff too. He might not be incredible, but he’s damned solid. If he only ends up here for one year then it won’t be the end of the world. The Bengals have given themselves options.

1) Carman kicks out

2) They draft an RT in 2022

3) They sign an RT in 2022

That’s assuming we don’t see another pickup before preseason and ignores Hakeem Adeniji, who I quite like. And I don’t think extending/resigning Reiff is impossible if he plays up to last season’s form.

The other thing about the chatter around Reiff  that bugs me the "they just signed him for one year so he's not a solution" it. No, he's certainly not a long-term solution, but if he plays well in 2021, there's no law forbidding the Bengals from giving him a new deal next March. He's unlikely to be in high demand given his age. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

The other thing about the chatter around Reiff  that bugs me the "they just signed him for one year so he's not a solution" it. No, he's certainly not a long-term solution, but if he plays well in 2021, there's no law forbidding the Bengals from giving him a new deal next March. He's unlikely to be in high demand given his age. 

Agree about Reiff, I’m basically expecting them to re-sign him and let him ease into a backup/mentor role at a pace dictated by the young guys’ development.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×