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Pittsburgh - The Inside Scoop, Part III


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Morning discussion question on radio:

Making the point that they don't see how the Steelers lose this Sunday,

"For the Steelers to lose, what would have to happen?"

See Dec. 4 for the answer. If we play like that again... turnovers in particular we will lose. Pretty simple.

That is surely a way. Do you see this as the ONLY way? Meaning, let's suppose that the Steelers do not turn the ball over at all ... do you see any way for the Steelers to lose this game? Just wondering if you happen to be implying that the only way for them to lose is to "beat themselves" or "give it away" (as I have heard Bill Cowher suggest). Or are you just suggesting this to be the most obvious way, and you would still see others.

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Jeff Reed --> "Don't be suprised if you see a squib kick here and there. We need to keep the ball out of the hands of Tab Perry."

Ben --> "If it wasn't for turnovers, I think we win that game. If it comes down to it, I think we can win a shootout."

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Guy Junker and Eddie Crow interview with Merrill Hoge

Asked the question about how the Steelers would lose.

MH --> "Turnovers. That simple. If they don't turn the ball over, they win."

MH --> "I was surprised they got pressure on Ben the last game. Then when I looked at it, I saw Duce confused on 3rd down. The Bengals are going to have a hard time getting pressure consistently. I think Ben is playing much better."

GJ --> "It's almost as if they have run out of gas."

MH --> "You are exactly right. They are not world beaters up front. They are not physical. They don't get alot of pressure on the quarterback. It was really a failure of Duce. They will beat them by 10 or 14 points."

EC --> "I'm going to write this in the books for the Steelers. Who do you want after that?"

MH --> "I don't think it matters. The Colts are still very solid. And they're at home. They're not invincible. They got to kind of turn some momentum up. If you can smack them under the chin strap early, then they might not get up."

MH --> "Turnovers played a big roll in both games. If it is clean game, the Steelers will win by 10 or 14. I think it is completely fair that they are favored."

EC --> "Unless they screw up, forget about this weekend."

MH --> "The Duce thing was big to me."

MH --> "They will be moving on. I have no question about that. I will talk to you on Sunday, getting ready for Indy."

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EC --> "Do the Steelers have any chance of losing to the Bengals. Merrill says absolutely not. Absolutely not."

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The burden of proof, I say, would be on you for that one. When 98 out of 100 Steeler fans are obnoxious, arrogant, and hold the opinion that the Bengals are an 'easy win' this weekend, then, yes, I think I can go with the percentages and "lump all Steeler fans together".

If you're getting this theory from Steelers Sports Radio, then you're not exactly getting an objective viewpoint. Talk show hosts say outrageous things to get rating, not because they necessarily believe what they say. And the callers are Steelers fans, most of whom are lemmings and don't know the meaning of the work "objective." What do you expect?

Again ... I am the one that happens to have recently been in both locations, and sure feel I can speak on some authority. I travel through-out the community on a daily basis and the opinions around here are loud and strong ... not just the radio voices. Except for a couple guys on this board, I have heard NO ONE giving the Bengals hope this Sunday.

I find that very hard to believe. But I can see a majority believing the Steelers will win. Don't you think there's a reason for this? The Bengals have not been playing great as of late and the Steelers are surging. It's really that simple. Obviously it's not going to be easy for either team to pull out a win, but based on recent games, the Steelers are playing good football and Cinci (seemingly) is struggling. Why do you and other Bengals fans take it so personally?

So ... what is your proof to the contrary? Just because you say you 'are concerned about this game' does not a majority make. The thing that gets me about Steeler fans (and even those who, like yourself, sound a bit level-headed) is that they simply refuse to admit the obvious. You are part of a collection of people who are simply rude, obnoxious, and incredibly arrogant about your 'Stiller traditions'. Outsiders are nobodies to Pittsburghers. They are unwelcome and treated poorly. I know.

I wouldn't know because I don't live in Pittsburgh. But I've been there many times and find that it's a nice city that's grown exponentially from its blue color beginnings. I think you would have a MUCH different opinion if you weren't a Bengals fan. Whether you realize it or not, hating the Steelers fans and grouping them together the way you do is spawned from and fed by your loyalty to the Bengals. But it also stems from jealousy. The Steelers have been successful in the regular season over the past 13 years (give or take a down year here or there). The Bengals, on the other hand, have not been. The combination of Bengals fanaticism and the Steelers success eats up Bengals fans, and they lay the blame on Steelers fans being "arrogant". Give me a break. If there is an arrogance about us it's no greater than any other fanbase, and if it were, you could easily make the argument that winning multiple Super Bowls will turn non-fans against a team's fanbase quickly, even if they were 30 years ago.

Why do you think so many people hate the Patriots nowadays, hated the Cowboys in the 90s and hated the 49ers in the 80s? Of course, most people would deny that this is the reason they hate a team and its fans, but let's be realistic here.

You'll probably think Steelers fans are holding on to the glory years of the 70s, but it's just the opposite for most of us. We want our team to win a Super Bowl NOW. I believe we have the most loyal fans in the league, and that's hard to deny, whether you believe we're "arrogant" or not.

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Morning discussion question on radio:

Making the point that they don't see how the Steelers lose this Sunday,

"For the Steelers to lose, what would have to happen?"

See Dec. 4 for the answer. If we play like that again... turnovers in particular we will lose. Pretty simple.

That is surely a way. Do you see this as the ONLY way? Meaning, let's suppose that the Steelers do not turn the ball over at all ... do you see any way for the Steelers to lose this game? Just wondering if you happen to be implying that the only way for them to lose is to "beat themselves" or "give it away" (as I have heard Bill Cowher suggest). Or are you just suggesting this to be the most obvious way, and you would still see others.

Turnovers were a big reason we lost to you guys, but not the only reason. Carson was givin outstanding protection in the pocket. Your lineman were great adjusting to the blitz packages offered by our D, and your backs did a great job blocking as well. Your secondary made some great plays and you guys were able to get off to a great start and forced us to play your game. That's the ticket right there. However... percentages are proof that winning the turnover battle leads to winning the game in most cases. The same goes for Cincinnati... a couple of timely mistakes and the game is over for you guys. In the playoffs turnovers are far worse than they are in the regular season. Last time we turned it over four times to you guys and lost by a TD. This time if we turn it over four times we'll lose by much more than that. Mistakes are amplified by a TON in the post-season, so whoever does a better job protecting the football wins the game.

If both teams play turnover free football I give the edge to Pittsburgh because of their style of play.

Game #1 - We tied in TO differential and Pittsburgh won convincingly. In fairness our second TO was a fumble with about 3 minutes to go, so we were +1 for most of the game.

Game #2 - You won the TO battle +4 and won by a TD.

So it's fair for me to say(based on what we've seen this year) that if Pittsburgh doesn't turn the ball over we'll win the game.

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Jeff Reed --> "Don't be suprised if you see a squib kick here and there. We need to keep the ball out of the hands of Tab Perry."

I don't agree with Reed on this. The guy's not that great of a returner, he had a nice game against us that day.

Ben --> "If it wasn't for turnovers, I think we win that game. If it comes down to it, I think we can win a shootout."

I totally agree with this and any objective Bengals fan would as well. The Bengals lived off of turnovers this year. If there are 2 or 3 fewer turnovers in that game the Steelers win. Remember, 3 INTs and a fumble and we lost by a touchdown. Is Ben saying something wrong here?

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I totally agree with this and any objective Bengals fan would as well. The Bengals lived off of turnovers this year. If there are 2 or 3 fewer turnovers in that game the Steelers win. Remember, 3 INTs and a fumble and we lost by a touchdown. Is Ben saying something wrong here?

No, of course not. The key word in his quote was "I think..." What Bengals fans don't like about this is that much of the Steelers media and fanbase has come to think that without those turnovers, then their team would have won the game 9 times out of 10, and I don't see it that way. As TIMEsteelersfan said, Palmer played a great game, mostly in part to the great protection he was given. If our offensive line plays that well this time around, then we could still very well win the game, even without all the turnovers.

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I totally agree with this and any objective Bengals fan would as well. The Bengals lived off of turnovers this year. If there are 2 or 3 fewer turnovers in that game the Steelers win. Remember, 3 INTs and a fumble and we lost by a touchdown. Is Ben saying something wrong here?

No, of course not. The key word in his quote was I think. What Bengals fans don't like about this is that much of the Steelers media and fanbase has come to think that without those turnovers, then their team would have won the game 9 times out of 10, and I don't see it that way. As TIMEsteelersfan said, Palmer played a great game, mostly in part to the great protection he was given. If our offensive line plays that well this time around, then we could still very well win the game, even without all the turnovers.

As usual TDB, you hit my opinion square. That is how I suggest Steelers media and fans think. Of course they are not going to come out and say it, but every phrase that is coming across suggests that they were the better team on 12/4, and that they are the better team now. That, unless they shoot themselves in the foot (turnovers), then, as you say, 9 times out of 10, they will win, and win convincingly. They have used this same story year after year, opponent after opponent. They are always the better team. Yet, they always end up losing. Strange. Heck, now that folks around here have "put this one in the win column" for the Steelers, and are looking at the Colts game, I am starting to hear the same thing there. I'm hearing suggestions that "right now" the Steelers are at least as good as the Colts and the only true advantage the Colts have is that it is indoors. The arrogance. Why is it that they simply cannot EVER be the lesser team fighting for the upset? It's like the bully on the playground ... he refuses to admit he will ever be #2. Time for David to hit Goliath in the head. Oh ... I long for those Hines tears to reappear.

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I totally agree with this and any objective Bengals fan would as well. The Bengals lived off of turnovers this year. If there are 2 or 3 fewer turnovers in that game the Steelers win. Remember, 3 INTs and a fumble and we lost by a touchdown. Is Ben saying something wrong here?

No, of course not. The key word in his quote was I think. What Bengals fans don't like about this is that much of the Steelers media and fanbase has come to think that without those turnovers, then their team would have won the game 9 times out of 10, and I don't see it that way. As TIMEsteelersfan said, Palmer played a great game, mostly in part to the great protection he was given. If our offensive line plays that well this time around, then we could still very well win the game, even without all the turnovers.

As usual TDB, you hit my opinion square. That is how I suggest Steelers media and fans think. Of course they are not going to come out and say it, but every phrase that is coming across suggests that they were the better team on 12/4, and that they are the better team now. That, unless they shoot themselves in the foot (turnovers), then, as you say, 9 times out of 10, they will win, and win convincingly. They have used this same story year after year, opponent after opponent. They are always the better team. Yet, they always end up losing. Strange. Heck, now that folks around here have "put this one in the win column" for the Steelers, and are looking at the Colts game, I am starting to hear the same thing there. I'm hearing suggestions that "right now" the Steelers are at least as good as the Colts and the only true advantage the Colts have is that it is indoors. The arrogance. Why is it that they simply cannot EVER be the lesser team fighting for the upset? It's like the bully on the playground ... he refuses to admit he will ever be #2. Time for David to hit Goliath in the head. Oh ... I long for those Hines tears to reappear.

Wow! Theres some anger and frustration in that post now isn't there. Look, when we've been beaten by the better team most will admit it. New England hammered us last year... we shot ourselves in the foot, BUT THEY MADE US DO IT! There's a difference between a fumbled handoff and a big hit that causes a fumble. They were hands down the better team and if Cincy beats us I'll say the same about them, unless they don't deserve it(just like we didn't deserve to beat the Jets last year). I've got no problem giving credit where credit is do, but I won't give some team credit on a Bulls**t win. My opinion of a BS win would be when Pittsburgh lost to Tennesse in the Divisional round in the 2002 season. Game winning chip shot field goal missed by Nedney and he's slightly bumped in the foot and flops to the ground drawing the BS penalty. He made the next one then spoke about his acting career in the locker room after the game. That is BS in my opinion, but that sort of thing doesn't happen often. If the Bengals out play us(like they did last time) I'll admit it. But I doubt that will happen. Sorry about your luck guys... you've waited a long time to get here and you have the unlucky fate of having to deal with Pittsburgh in round 1. Inexperience and a complete lack of defense bite you in a losing effort Sunday night.

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I wonder if Mr. Hodge's interview would have gone any differently had he been talking on a Bengals radio broadcast. <_<

No it wouldn't. Hodge is very stand up. He gets down on the Steelers and says that they are not good enough to beat a certain team. I've heard him do this several times early in the Steelers 6-10 season when everyone else thought that the Steelers were going to get better. He made me mad at first, but he was right. He's almost always right.

I totally agree with this and any objective Bengals fan would as well. The Bengals lived off of turnovers this year. If there are 2 or 3 fewer turnovers in that game the Steelers win. Remember, 3 INTs and a fumble and we lost by a touchdown. Is Ben saying something wrong here?

No, of course not. The key word in his quote was "I think..." What Bengals fans don't like about this is that much of the Steelers media and fanbase has come to think that without those turnovers, then their team would have won the game 9 times out of 10, and I don't see it that way. As TIMEsteelersfan said, Palmer played a great game, mostly in part to the great protection he was given. If our offensive line plays that well this time around, then we could still very well win the game, even without all the turnovers.

Well, the Steelers defense has kicked it up a few notches and Palmer will not be so well protected.

I totally agree with this and any objective Bengals fan would as well. The Bengals lived off of turnovers this year. If there are 2 or 3 fewer turnovers in that game the Steelers win. Remember, 3 INTs and a fumble and we lost by a touchdown. Is Ben saying something wrong here?

No, of course not. The key word in his quote was I think. What Bengals fans don't like about this is that much of the Steelers media and fanbase has come to think that without those turnovers, then their team would have won the game 9 times out of 10, and I don't see it that way. As TIMEsteelersfan said, Palmer played a great game, mostly in part to the great protection he was given. If our offensive line plays that well this time around, then we could still very well win the game, even without all the turnovers.

As usual TDB, you hit my opinion square. That is how I suggest Steelers media and fans think. Of course they are not going to come out and say it, but every phrase that is coming across suggests that they were the better team on 12/4, and that they are the better team now. That, unless they shoot themselves in the foot (turnovers), then, as you say, 9 times out of 10, they will win, and win convincingly. They have used this same story year after year, opponent after opponent. They are always the better team. Yet, they always end up losing. Strange. Heck, now that folks around here have "put this one in the win column" for the Steelers, and are looking at the Colts game, I am starting to hear the same thing there. I'm hearing suggestions that "right now" the Steelers are at least as good as the Colts and the only true advantage the Colts have is that it is indoors. The arrogance. Why is it that they simply cannot EVER be the lesser team fighting for the upset? It's like the bully on the playground ... he refuses to admit he will ever be #2. Time for David to hit Goliath in the head. Oh ... I long for those Hines tears to reappear.

Wow! Theres some anger and frustration in that post now isn't there. Look, when we've been beaten by the better team most will admit it. New England hammered us last year... we shot ourselves in the foot, BUT THEY MADE US DO IT! There's a difference between a fumbled handoff and a big hit that causes a fumble. They were hands down the better team and if Cincy beats us I'll say the same about them, unless they don't deserve it(just like we didn't deserve to beat the Jets last year). I've got no problem giving credit where credit is do, but I won't give some team credit on a Bulls**t win. My opinion of a BS win would be when Pittsburgh lost to Tennesse in the Divisional round in the 2002 season. Game winning chip shot field goal missed by Nedney and he's slightly bumped in the foot and flops to the ground drawing the BS penalty. He made the next one then spoke about his acting career in the locker room after the game. That is BS in my opinion, but that sort of thing doesn't happen often. If the Bengals out play us(like they did last time) I'll admit it. But I doubt that will happen. Sorry about your luck guys... you've waited a long time to get here and you have the unlucky fate of having to deal with Pittsburgh in round 1. Inexperience and a complete lack of defense bite you in a losing effort Sunday night.

Well put! :cheers:

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Apologies to the mods. I truly did intend this to simply be informative with regard to information (quotes, etc) I get living in Pittsburgh. I cannot control the Steeler fans invading the thread and continually wanting to 'stir things up'. There is a reason I didn't put this in the SMACK area. I do my best to quote guys EXACTLY. I just wish we could weed-out the nonsense in this thread and keep it to the quotes that show the arrogance of Pittsburgh. It'll all be over soon enough. A win by our Bengals and these guys will be sitting quietly on their couches for 9 LONG months.

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Well, the Steelers defense has kicked it up a few notches and Palmer will not be so well protected.

This becomes the million dollar question. How much does the Steelers' recent defensive success have to do with the weak competition? Will the Bengals offensive line play as consistently as they did in the regular season? Will one of these two strengths overcome the other?

Answer that question, and I believe you have the winner of this game.

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Okay, okay... the Steelers have a good winning streak going in which their running game has looked very good. However... they have needed to win every single game to claw and scratch their way into the playoffs... so they've been playing with passion.

The Bengals have a 2-game losing streak. Everyone is willing to look past the Colts poor games at the end of the season, because they were basically meaningless. Why is it different with the Bengals? Because it's a what have you done for me lately league... but consider this:

The Steelers needed a win at home agianst a very bad Lions team that had absolutely nothing to play for... In this game Big Ben had his lowest passer rating of the season at 34.1. He completed just 7 of 16 passes for 135 yards, no touchdowns and two interceptions. Way to go!

Joey Harrington tore up the Steelers defense. Harrington completed 17 of 33 passes for 212 yards, no interceptions, three touchdowns, was sacked just once and had a 102.1 passer rating. Great defense!

Not to mention the fact that the Lions were not committed to the run, and still managed 105 yards on only 25 carries. So lets put this whole "The Steelers are hot" myth to rest. They would have lost to virtually any other team on Sunday.

They will probably come out looking better this Sunday @ Cincy... but let's not act like the Bengals are going to look like they did against KC either. Neither of these teams played their best football last week. The only difference is that the Bengals played backups... so a quick note to Big Ben and that entire Steelers defense... The Bengals are not the Lions. Get your s**t together!

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A football fan would understand the difference between Indy's situation and Cincy's situation so I'm not going to explain it for you.

The difference wasn't really all that big. Sure, when we faced the Bills we had a shot at a bye week, but fell victim to the trap game. It is very possible that the Steelers would have lost to the Bills as well playing like they did in week 17.

When we faced the Chiefs, it was absolutely meaningless, and every bit of information about that game should be thrown out.

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A football fan would understand the difference between Indy's situation and Cincy's situation so I'm not going to explain it for you. Ture we didn't play very well against the Lions defensively... no doubt about that. Ben's stats are very misleading, but we still won by 2 TD's.

Thanks for that gentle little jab. I'll take it as a complement from a Steelers fan.

Indy's situation was different... They were going for the undefeated season. The Bengals laid an egg against the Bills true... and there was still "something" to play for... but not really, since as most people expected... Denver won out.

The Bengals had NOTHING to play for against KC... and proved that by pulling the important starters. Pittsburgh on the other hand... on their way to winning by that oh-so-decisive 2 TD's against a team playing as bad as any team in the NFL needed that win desperately... without it would have missed the playoffs.

A football fan would understand that you can spin stats any way you want... but the Steelers looked bad against a bad team they needed to beat to make the playoffs. If you don't understand the difference between Cincy's situaton and Pittsburgh's situation, I'm not going to explain it for you.

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A football fan would understand the difference between Indy's situation and Cincy's situation so I'm not going to explain it for you.

The difference wasn't really all that big. Sure, when we faced the Bills we had a shot at a bye week, but fell victim to the trap game. It is very possible that the Steelers would have lost to the Bills as well playing like they did in week 17.

When we faced the Chiefs, it was absolutely meaningless, and every bit of information about that game should be thrown out.

Detroit 5-11

Buffalo 5-11

Seems to me they're equally pathetic. I agree that the KC game meant nothing, but looking bad against Buffalo and Cleveland in two of the last three meaningful games is not good.

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A football fan would understand the difference between Indy's situation and Cincy's situation so I'm not going to explain it for you. Ture we didn't play very well against the Lions defensively... no doubt about that. Ben's stats are very misleading, but we still won by 2 TD's.

Thanks for that gentle little jab. I'll take it as a complement from a Steelers fan.

Indy's situation was different... They were going for the undefeated season. The Bengals laid an egg against the Bills true... and there was still "something" to play for... but not really, since as most people expected... Denver won out.

The Bengals had NOTHING to play for against KC... and proved that by pulling the important starters. Pittsburgh on the other hand... on their way to winning by that oh-so-decisive 2 TD's against a team playing as bad as any team in the NFL needed that win desperately... without it would have missed the playoffs.

A football fan would understand that you can spin stats any way you want... but the Steelers looked bad against a bad team they needed to beat to make the playoffs. If you don't understand the difference between Cincy's situaton and Pittsburgh's situation, I'm not going to explain it for you.

Don't even try to explain it... I've heard enough BS for one day. Pittsburgh is playing better football than Cincinnati right now. You gave the perfect example... Pittsburgh played poorly against a bad team and still won big, while Cincinnati played poorly against a bad team and lost big. Get it now?

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Back to quotes and other information ...

The Mark Madden Show (and, yes, contrary to the opinion of these Steeler fans that do not want to be exposed, he is THE popular sports voice in Pittsburgh)

quoting Jason Whitlock from ESPN's Page2:

NFL Truths for Week 1 of the playoffs

7. Bill Cowher needs to turn Ben Roethlisberger loose in the playoffs.

Big Ben is beginning to look like a fraud playing in Cowher's ultra-conservative offense. In a must-win regular-season finale against the Detroit Lions, Ben completed 7 of 16 passes for 135 yards with two interceptions.

The Steelers are not going to make it to the Super Bowl with those numbers and totally relying on their running game and defense. Pittsburgh's defense just isn't that good. The Steelers can be gashed through the air and on the ground.

If the weather is halfway decent in Cincy this weekend, Roethlisberger should throw the ball at least 25 times.

MM --> "Let me just say I totally agree."

Caller --> "There is one thing I would like to see this playoff season ... I would like to see the Steelers throw the ball more on first down."

MM --> "The Steeler defense isn't as good as we imagine it to be. It has some great players, but when you allow the Detroit Lions to score all those points and convert 10 of 17 third down opportunities ..."

MM (defending the Whitlock article as callers call in whining about it) --> "We need to take a step back, and Cowher too, and see that our prehistoric version of football doesn't win playoff games."

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okay... but we did beat those Lions you struggled with 41 to 17. that was only 3 weeks ago... and lets not forget how our teams fared against each-other in both teams MOST IMPORTANT game of the season. 38-31.

Yep... just like we pounded the Browns 41-0 while phantom calls in overtime allowed you to escape with a 23-20 win at home. MOST IMPORTANT GAME OF THE SEASON??? That statement tells me a lot about your outlook on an NFL season.

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okay... but we did beat those Lions you struggled with 41 to 17. that was only 3 weeks ago... and lets not forget how our teams fared against each-other in both teams MOST IMPORTANT game of the season. 38-31.

Yep... just like we pounded the Browns 41-0 while phantom calls in overtime allowed you to escape with a 23-20 win at home. MOST IMPORTANT GAME OF THE SEASON??? That statement tells me a lot about your outlook on an NFL season.

Isn't there a Steeler message board out there somewhere for your baseless points to be applauded? Or at least pick the SMACK area. Every time I see another Stiller fan comment, the same phrase keeps coming to mind ... it has something to do with "battle of wits" and "unarmed man". Ugh.

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